New League Proposals [Archive]

lefty

30/05/2006, 6:29 PM

Lads not going through that forum in the General section running on this topic. From a purely UCD fanbase only what do we think about it. Good points, bad points etc. My view is that it would be great and everything about it is great except the fact that teams next year will be based on a load of waffle instead of finishing places this year, i can understand the reason behind this but i cant agree with it. Also im wondering what happens if the FAI gets bored with its new toy and/or that ruling regarding payment of players wages by National teams is passed leaving the FAI with a big hole in their newly found wallets

pineapple stu

30/05/2006, 6:44 PM

My view is that[...]everything about it is great except the fact that teams next year will be based on a load of waffle instead of finishing places this year.
Pretty much, yeah.

Increased prize money - good. Extra division to allow new clubs into the league if they want - good. Don't agree with the ten-team Premier - it was voted out for a reason. Wage cap - good, altough very difficult to enforce in reality, I suppose. Strict licencing - good, though we should have that already. The E10k to clubs for marketing sounds like a catch 22 - sounds a bit like they want the money to help you employ a new marketing person, which would cost much more than E10k.

Merger between the league and the FAI - absolutely opposed. The FAI have shown themselves incapable of running Irish football without bias, corruption and other shady dealings, and the league could do without that.

Bald Student

30/05/2006, 7:11 PM

Thinking over it I'm not sure about the wage cap. It'll bring finances in the league back under control but it will also see the top players being offered a lot less money so I don't know if full time football will survive under it.

The prize money is increasing and also being concentrated amoung the top clubs with the middle & bottom clubs paying for it through increased participation fees. That could lead to a bigger gap between the haves and the have-nots whcih has both advantages and disadvanteges.

The U20 league is going back to winter football which looks like a demotion to me.

Overall they're a step in the right direction if the name change is reconsidered.

pineapple stu

30/05/2006, 7:25 PM

Thinking over it I'm not sure about the wage cap. It'll bring finances in the league back under control but it will also see the top players being offered a lot less money so I don't know if full time football will survive under it.
I don't agree on that. Full-time football won't survive where you have clubs paying players money they can't afford. Unfortunately, most clubs have little or no cop on when it comes to money and have to be forced, it seems. If the league can't afford full-time football, then so be it. It's better than clubs imploding every couple of years.

Not happy with the prize money split actually - forgot about that.

CollegeTillIDie

30/05/2006, 7:28 PM

Well according to a very reliable source, the Prize Money on offer is being found from €1,000,000 per year which has been paid by Eircom for the past number of years to the FAI specifically for sponsoring the League. However to date none of this money has been passed on to the League in any meaningful way. And the same source is also of the view that the broad thrust of the proposal is to shaft Dublin City and UCD.

lefty

31/05/2006, 8:42 AM

Yes were going to be shafted big time. But im wondering if we go down then bounce back, will the FAI have some excuse to then kick us again or will it be a case of well they are there on merit, agree with pineapple stu dont trust the fai as far as i could throw them

John83

31/05/2006, 10:27 AM

I'm kind of hesitant to rehash all of my arguments in the general thread on this, but I guess a quick summary.

I don't like the cherry picking of clubs. I don't think it will achieve anything. I don't think it's fair. It's certainly possible that UCD will be one of the clubs affected.
I don't like the fact that the FAI is going to take on the powers it will. I don't think I need to write an essay on why.
I don't like the way wealth will be moved to the top clubs via the entry fees and prize money. They already make a lot of money in Europe, and this is just going to hurt competition in the league.

I'm either in favour of or not bothered by the remainder of the proposals.

lefty

31/05/2006, 11:51 AM

[QUOTE=John83]
I don't like the way wealth will be moved to the top clubs via the entry fees [QUOTE]

What entry fees?

pineapple stu

31/05/2006, 12:24 PM

To play in the Premier will now cost E17k as compared to E10k this year. First Division is up from E8k to E5k.

The more you actually look at the implications of the proposals, the worse they become, to be honest.

Schumi

31/05/2006, 12:58 PM

lefty

31/05/2006, 3:01 PM

So its gonna be 17k - Premiership
8k - 1st Division
5k - A Championship

Do we have enough money to pay 22,000 euro? Anyone got a list comparing prize moneys as per now vis a vis in fai league, for lower finishers in the league and 1st division teams in particular :rolleyes:

pineapple stu

31/05/2006, 4:24 PM

It's on the FAI website - the document is downloadable. Prize money for 9th in the Premier goes up from 5k to 6k. You have to finish top half to make the prize money actually worth the increase in league fees. Bit silly alright.

CollegeTillIDie

31/05/2006, 7:27 PM

Yes a 9th place finish would see membership of the Premier Division actually costing you money before you even begin to factor in player's wages,and the costs of staging home fixtures and travelling to away fixtures!

lefty

01/06/2006, 11:32 AM

John83

01/06/2006, 11:36 AM

Devils Advocate - Big teams big spending need to finish top half to make money and keep players, anything less = selling players. Small team like ucd finishes mid table we would make big money as our expenses would be minimal compared to the big teams.
Okay, I'll bite. Being a top half team doesn't give you any divine right to get more money to maintain that position.

They already have increased gates and a European adventure to show for their success, and shifting more money from a lower team to them does nothing but garuantee further domination by the same few clubs.

Unless, of course, the idea is to make a Rosenberg-type club top the league and make enough money to get further in Europe. I don't think many people are in favour of that model though.

lefty

01/06/2006, 11:46 AM

Thats football, do you think for a second that Portsmouth or Villa got the same money this year as West Ham or Wigan? Should they have? Off topic slightly i know but the money they are talking about will not turn teams in our league into Chelsea, the gap wont be that big and the money is there for anyone to get a hold of it. If we were to finish fourth again would you like to see us give the money back as its unfair to 9th place who lost money overall and dont have the gate receipts like well have for Setanta Cup and European adventure. If you would advocate doing that id shoot you

pineapple stu

01/06/2006, 12:38 PM

More money should go to clubs the higher up the table they finish (although there's actually no reason why this should be so - the higher up the table you finish, the more likely you are to have good crowds (relative to your own average) or qualify for Europe and make more money other ways). However, the balance in the new proposals is excessively weighted towards the top. I'd suggest something like...

1st - 100000
2nd - 80000
3rd - 65000
4th - 50000
5th - 40000
6th - 30000
7th - 25000
8th - 20000
9th - 10000
10th - 10000
11th - 10000
12th - 10000

Far fairer. Rewards success and doesn't punish (relative) failure. Plus, it took me just 30 seconds to devise.

As an encore, I'll devise a system for picking the league teams next season. I'd say the top ten teams in the Premier should be in there, together with the First Division winners. I'd say a play-off between 4th, 3rd and 2nd in the First Division, and 11th in the Premier - as was successful a few years back - with the ultimate winners being in the Premier.

Easy, non? I should take Delaney's job - I can (self-)evidently do a better job than he!

lefty

01/06/2006, 2:48 PM

Easy, non? I should take Delaney's job - I can (self-)evidently do a better job than he!

You dont have the panash, flowing hair and intellectual ability of that great man

Aberdonian Stu

01/06/2006, 2:49 PM

It's panache

Schumi

01/06/2006, 2:49 PM

You dont have the panash, flowing hair and intellectual ability of that great man
He's getting there on the hair in fairness. :D

John83

01/06/2006, 2:50 PM

It's panache
Yeah, emphasis on the "ache".

lefty

01/06/2006, 2:56 PM

It's panache

My god, to be a free lance journalist and spend my time floating around foot.ie looking to correct spellings what a life that would be

pineapple stu

01/06/2006, 2:57 PM

We must learn you to be pedantic, lefty. :)

Join us...!

lefty

01/06/2006, 3:01 PM

Cant keep up, im nearly out of breath as soon as i post a message theres a reply and i thought you people had jobs :D

CollegeTillIDie

29/06/2006, 10:05 PM

Well they voted the darned thing in!:mad:

thegit

02/07/2006, 8:40 AM

I feel sorry for UCD, it´s going to be really hard for them to hold onto players when this happens. Will Tony Mac take over, I cant see Mahon hanging around to build another team?

pineapple stu

02/07/2006, 10:01 AM

It'll go to the courts. Decent chance it won't come about. If it does, all we haev to do at this stage is be one of the top twelve teams not wound up by Revenue come next January.

If it does come about, it's going to set us back at least five years.

CollegeTillIDie

02/07/2006, 10:37 AM

Only Dublin City were quoted as voting against... I take it we abstained then

CollegeTillIDie

02/07/2006, 10:39 AM

If it does, all we haev to do at this stage is be one of the top twelve teams not wound up by Revenue come next January.

That should be a piece of p1ss!:D

Poor Student

02/07/2006, 2:05 PM

If it does come about, it's going to set us back at least five years.

Bit dramatic there. I'm hoping if the worst injustice transpires we can still bounce back immediately like last time.

CollegeTillIDie

02/07/2006, 3:13 PM

Poor Student

Pineapple stu has a point. Pete Mahon might not stay around if we are cheated out of a place in the new Premier.

Plastic Paddy

02/07/2006, 4:01 PM

It's panache

Isn't that what you get when you eat too much fried food?

IGMC...

:ball: PP

pineapple stu

02/07/2006, 6:46 PM

Bit dramatic there. I'm hoping if the worst injustice transpires we can still bounce back immediately like last time.
Maybe a bit dramatic. But we'd still be looking at losing players like Gary Dicker, Darren Quigley and a couple of others. That's hardly going to help us. The longer they stay (up to 23), the more we'll get for them if they move on. So if we get arbitrarily relegated, we're losing money as well. Yes, we'll always get more good players, but I don't want to lose some of the best we've ever had on a whim of the FAI.

Colie

02/07/2006, 7:12 PM

But we'd still be looking at losing players like Gary Dicker.I was sitting on the fence on this but now I'm totally against it!

Poor Student

03/07/2006, 1:10 PM

I was sitting on the fence on this but now I'm totally against it!

Exactly. Imagine Dicker leaving with us never having seen him develop into the finished article.

CollegeTillIDie

04/07/2006, 10:33 PM

I was informed by a source , who claims to have the ear of several FAI officials, that UCD are not going to be shafted.... well at least not this around :D

DmanDmythDledge

04/07/2006, 10:37 PM

Does he mean that we will have enough points to qualify or are the FAI just doing this because of the possible court case? Also, seeing that we voted yes would we have a case if we were relegated? We would be getting screwed but because of us voting yes would that mean that the club would be alright with the reason for our relegation?

CollegeTillIDie

04/07/2006, 10:40 PM

dmand

The source is not a club official. But he has been a financial benefactor at several EL clubs and has sponsored a few games/matchballs etc at Belfield Park over the years into the bargain.

Poor Student

05/07/2006, 8:46 AM

CTID, maybe he's been instructed to put the word out but pacify us.;)

pineapple stu

05/07/2006, 12:51 PM

I was informed by a source , who claims to have the ear of several FAI officials, that UCD are not going to be shafted.... well at least not this around :D
I think every club's had that talk...

CollegeTillIDie

05/07/2006, 8:48 PM