Down memory lane with Roddy Doyle [Archive]

OwlsFan

12/05/2006, 7:39 AM

Found this article in the Observer dating back to Italia 90 (a great read if you've time):

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/irelandfootball/story/0,,586469,00.html

Extracts I particularly like:

"I was a Charlton man. I liked him; I loved the team - McGrath, Houghton, Bonner - they were all marvellous. They'd been dreadful on Sunday against Egypt, but so what?"

"For me, Dunphy represented those miserable little fu*kers. That wasn't fair on Dunphy, but tough. I'd waited all my life to see Ireland in the World Cup. As far as I was concerned, Jack Charlton had got them there. He had style, humour; he was honest. Dunphy hated Charlton; Dunphy hated lots of things." :D

NY Hoop

12/05/2006, 9:49 AM

Doyle's a tosser

KOH

NeilMcD

12/05/2006, 11:10 AM

Owls fan you really do seem to have issues with Dunphy. He cant have that much of an effect on you thinking can he?

geysir

12/05/2006, 12:30 PM

Dunphy's a tosser.

as_i_say

12/05/2006, 1:44 PM

he's a stuttering goon that can't sting 2 words together. dunphy that is. a lot like staunton but then staunton isnt a di ck head

Fergie's Son

12/05/2006, 3:44 PM

This was an interesting quote:

Dunphy had said that he was ashamed to be Irish; he'd thrown his pen across the studio. He hadn't said that at all; what he'd said was that if Ireland were going to play like that all the time then he'd be ashamed to be Irish; he'd only thrown his pen on to the desk, hadn't really thrown it.

I remember that. I was working at the Yacht on the Coast Road and I saw it live while rolling kegs out the back.

Not a bad article.

Block G Raptor

12/05/2006, 9:21 PM

Ive Goose Bumps and a lump in my throat reading that. Bring's Back some memories. roll on 2010

Karlos

13/05/2006, 12:27 AM

:)
I actually read this piece every couple of weeks when I pick up the book 'My Favourite Year' in my local 'Chapters' here in Toronto on my lunch break. Always puts a little lump in the throat when I read it.

There's also a really good peice from a Boro fan/writer in the book. Great read. :)

LeixlipRed

14/05/2006, 7:39 PM

I was only 5 at the time but i remember every minute of it. makes me tearful i have to say. I remember waiting hours leaning against the green fence on the Drumcondra Road to see them go past. im so upset we're not in this world cup. the leaving cert ruined the last one. haha and i cried when schillaci scored. ah memories

eirebhoy

14/05/2006, 7:48 PM

Roverstillidie

14/05/2006, 8:20 PM

Fergie's Son

15/05/2006, 2:27 AM

that book was full of guys who followed garbage sides up and down england and beyond, blood sweat and tears.

roddy sat in a pub watching the WC and he is an authority? he represents all that is wrong with the ole ole brigade.

No, he doesn't. He didn't have the money to follow Ireland. Ireland in 1990 was a lot different than the Ireland of 2006. The disposable income just wasn't there. Unemployment was significant and no-one had heard even a meow from the Celtic Tiger. He was actually doing the responsible thing for his wife and family. He was a school-teacher after all.

I remember watching the Romania games with my Granddad in Raheny. He died in December of 2005 :(

CollegeTillIDie

15/05/2006, 7:09 AM

Doyle's a tosser

KOH

What about Dunphy? He dissed the League of Ireland in the Sunday World for years. Disses it every chance he gets in other outlets. Wanted to bring Wimbledon to Dublin and backed Kilcoyne? If that doesn't make him a tosser I don't know what does!

OwlsFan

15/05/2006, 9:05 AM

Owls fan you really do seem to have issues with Dunphy. He cant have that much of an effect on you thinking can he?

The poison dwarf started his campaign against everything I loved in Irish football by attacking Liam Brady when he was a player for not putting it in when he played for Ireland.

He then continued with a virulent personal and tabloidish campaign, aided by Laughing Bill, against Jack Charlton whom I'll never be able to thank enough for what he did for Ireland and Sheffied Wednesday.

He openly supported the Kilcoynes in the sale of Milltown where I spent many many Sundays over decades supporting the Hoops.

Because his mate Joe Kinnear didn't get the Irish job, he launched into personal and tabloidish attacks on Mick McCarthy and did his best to undermine him.

I was on the opposite side to him on the Saipan affair.

WHy should I have an issue with him :eek: ?

Stuttgart88

16/05/2006, 7:39 AM

Pedantic I know, but this is an extract from the article:

Packie Bonner dived to the left and saved Romania's last penalty. He dived to the left and parried the ball and got up quickly and jumped into the air, his arms up, one leg slightly lifted. I was in the air too. It was unbelievable. - He's saved it!

He wrote the same in The Van.

He dived to the RIGHT!! OK, so he dived to the left of the telly screen but nobody ever describes it that way.

NY Hoop

16/05/2006, 10:38 AM

No, he doesn't. He didn't have the money to follow Ireland. Ireland in 1990 was a lot different than the Ireland of 2006. The disposable income just wasn't there. Unemployment was significant and no-one had heard even a meow from the Celtic Tiger. He was actually doing the responsible thing for his wife and family. He was a school-teacher after all.

I remember watching the Romania games with my Granddad in Raheny. He died in December of 2005 :(

Eh a lot of us who were there in Italy werent exactly loaded either. RTID is spot on. He does represent the morons you saw cheering on one english team against another on saturday. Christ one of the lads was in kilkenny and these idiots were buying champagne because an english team beat another one.:eek:

Anyone ever see doyle on Fantasy Football? Idiot.

CTID the thread is about doyle. What Owlsfan says about dummy is spot on. The guy's a joke.

KOH

Junior

16/05/2006, 12:32 PM

For me the WC experience is different to all people and you don't have to be a die hard, travelling to games to be a part of it in the true sense.

My mum could name about one player on the Irish team, but during '94 and '02 she'd quite happily wear a green shirt and watch the matches at home and enjoy the whole experience of it all. This happens to Irish people the world over in pubs, homes, internet cafe's or at the games themselves. Each takes part in whatever way they see fit to enjoy the occasion.

For me, whats wrong with fans is not this approach but the amount of tossers banging on about 'barstoolers' EPL, SPL supporters 'never been to agame in their life' blah blah blah.

World Cups are just about having the craic and hoping above hope that your team can pull off the impossible......

OwlsFan

16/05/2006, 12:34 PM

World Cups are just about having the craic and hoping above hope that your team can pull off the impossible......

The other way round for me.

Junior

16/05/2006, 12:39 PM

The other way round for me.

It wasn't meant to be in any particular order.

Fergie's Son

16/05/2006, 3:44 PM

Eh a lot of us who were there in Italy werent exactly loaded either. RTID is spot on. He does represent the morons you saw cheering on one english team against another on saturday. Christ one of the lads was in kilkenny and these idiots were buying champagne because an english team beat another one.:eek:

So a lot of people were irresponsible and spent money that they didn't have? That doesn't make you more of a fan. It makes you more of a risk-taker. Two different things.

Now you're creating a different argument. Fact is, a country like Ireland is always going to look to the larger sporting leagues of England for entertainment. There is a natural affinity to the big English clubs because they are culturally similar to ourselves. Not saying it's right or wrong but to ignore the powerful pull of the English leagues is misguided. It isn't fair to criticize how someone else gets their jollies. Buying champange for an English is, imho, over the top but then each to their own.

NeilMcD

16/05/2006, 3:50 PM

I am a bit confused here I thought it was argued that anybody who supports the National team is only an event junkie and an Ole Ole fan.

NY Hoop

16/05/2006, 3:50 PM

So a lot of people were irresponsible and spent money that they didn't have? That doesn't make you more of a fan. It makes you more of a risk-taker. Two different things.

Now you're creating a different argument. Fact is, a country like Ireland is always going to look to the larger sporting leagues of England for entertainment. There is a natural affinity to the big English clubs because they are culturally similar to ourselves. Not saying it's right or wrong but to ignore the powerful pull of the English leagues is misguided. It isn't fair to criticize how someone else gets their jollies. Buying champange for an English is, imho, over the top but then each to their own.

I had saved for that WC! Doyle represents the ole ole merchant all the way. You know "the best fans in the world" crap?

Acknowledge the pull of the english league. The premiership is also very popular in Scandinavia but their fans do not ignore their own domestic leagues. Their journalists dont have a sneering attitude to their leagues either.

KOH

NeilMcD

16/05/2006, 4:03 PM

TheJamaicanP.M.

16/05/2006, 4:33 PM

As I said before Roddy Doyel and others are entitled to do what ever they want to do and they are not breaking the law or harming anybody else. Not sure how that qualifies them as idiots and people hate Doyle so much. He is just a journalist who was asked to write about football for a book and he picked the world cup in 1990. I am sure he is not saying he is a hardcore fan, in fact in the piece he spells out that he never supported Ireland beyond the home games.

Good post.
I can't see why people are picking on Doyle. As Neil said, he simply provided his recollection of the tournament for a book. He's not claiming to be the team's number one fan.
I'm not a fan of Doyle's writing style but I have to say, he summed up the incredible emotions of the World Cup in that piece. Indeed, that piece is in contrast to a documentary RTE made about the Irish fans who went to Italia 90. A number of fans were interviewed for the programme and while some of them provided interesting stories, a number of them kept referring to how "we was locked. We was hammered. It was mad craic."

NeilMcD

16/05/2006, 4:37 PM

I think Doyles piece summed up what it was like for a lot of Irish people to watch the games in Ireland. A huge proportion of the population did this and therefore it should be treated as a social history. There are many hardcore fans who I am sure could equally write up a brilliant piece on what it was like to be in Italy supporting the team and that would make for great reading also. Just cause Doyle did not go to Italy does not mean he is a tosser or an idiot etc.

Fergie's Son

16/05/2006, 7:42 PM

I had saved for that WC! Doyle represents the ole ole merchant all the way. You know "the best fans in the world" crap?

Acknowledge the pull of the english league. The premiership is also very popular in Scandinavia but their fans do not ignore their own domestic leagues. Their journalists dont have a sneering attitude to their leagues either.

So you made your choices and he made his. I regularly fly from America to Ireland matches (France, Israel, Dublin etc. for the last campaign). Does that make me any more of a fan than someone who watches the games in a pub? I certainly don't think so.

I've go to Tolka Park about 50+ times in my life to support Shels, does that make me more of a fan of the Irish team?

You've appointed yourself as the "pure" fan when you are anything but. I'm delighted that you follow Ireland and the LOI but that does not mean other people should. Journalists write about what people want to read in order to sell their product (newspapers etc.). They need to make a living as well. And the LOI does get some good coverage and the Setanta Cup is a good way forward. That does not mean, however, that a Dublin-born Liverpool supporter is any less of a fan of the national team.

NY Hoop

17/05/2006, 9:56 AM

So you made your choices and he made his. I regularly fly from America to Ireland matches (France, Israel, Dublin etc. for the last campaign). Does that make me any more of a fan than someone who watches the games in a pub? I certainly don't think so.

I've go to Tolka Park about 50+ times in my life to support Shels, does that make me more of a fan of the Irish team?

You've appointed yourself as the "pure" fan when you are anything but. I'm delighted that you follow Ireland and the LOI but that does not mean other people should. Journalists write about what people want to read in order to sell their product (newspapers etc.). They need to make a living as well. And the LOI does get some good coverage and the Setanta Cup is a good way forward. That does not mean, however, that a Dublin-born Liverpool supporter is any less of a fan of the national team.

Dont know what your problem is with me pal. I havent appointed anyone as anything. We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a supporter. Shouting at a tv screen in a pub does not and never will qualify. When I was living in the states I came home for our European games so I know the sacrifices involved.

My original point was that doyle is a tosser. I thought the reason why was well known. Obviously not. Here's why league fans here can dismiss him:

He was on Fantasy Football years ago and when asked by Baddiel why someone from Dublin would "support" chelsea he gleefully announced that the "League of Ireland is ****":mad:

Hope that clears it up for you.

KOH

Dodge

17/05/2006, 10:41 AM

Goor writer though.

Wouldn't call him a tosser for that opinion. I usually agree with it (although I think anybody who supports/doesn't support a team because they're good/bad has something wrong with them.)

While we're here, and speaking as a mod, can people quit calling everybody they disagree witha tosser; it just sounds childish...

OwlsFan

17/05/2006, 10:44 AM

I think the last few posts sum it up. Doyle is not a fan of the EL but wrote an evocative piece about Italia 90.

geysir

17/05/2006, 11:06 AM

To add to Doyle's list of tosser stuff, he was also a supporter of Wimbledon to Dublin and claims that Pat Dolan is a visionary :) http://indigo.ie/~benildus/RDoyle.htm
I think he should leave the fantasy behind when he finishes his writing, he stretches it too far.

Roverstillidie

17/05/2006, 4:23 PM

So you made your choices and he made his. I regularly fly from America to Ireland matches (France, Israel, Dublin etc. for the last campaign). Does that make me any more of a fan than someone who watches the games in a pub?

of course it does.

i started this, and it was meant in the context of a book of lunatics who supported the likes of exeter and hereford town up and down the country, getting hammered and having to travel all the way home after in despair. pure, dyed in the wool fans.

roddy sits in the boozer and watches the national sidea and is somehow in the book with these fans. he typifies the ole ole brigade who follow a british side but boo their 'own' players when they wear three lions. he couldnt name the u21 manager if you put a gun to his head. fans who do down el supporters whenever they can in a smug manner because their 'team' and 'league' is better. roddy put himself forward as an expert by appearing on these shows so he can live with it.

i believe that fans who only watch their sides in the pub are inferior in quality to those who travel and make sacrifices to see them live. its illogical to suggest otherwise. thats why they are called barstool fans.

NeilMcD

17/05/2006, 4:27 PM

So what about someone who does not do down the EL but did not grow up near an EL team so therefore has no affinity to an EL club. They also dont have any affinity to any other club around the world except maybe for taking an interested in all football but they would not support any club. However they go to all the home and away games for the national side and they can name the U21 manager and also the u19 manager of the national side.

Roverstillidie

17/05/2006, 4:42 PM

NeilMcD

17/05/2006, 4:46 PM

Its got nothing to do with Roddy Doyle really just asking a question. This person would not abuse anybody for supporting or not supporting whatever a team.

Roverstillidie

17/05/2006, 4:53 PM

Its got nothing to do with Roddy Doyle really just asking a question. This person would not abuse anybody for supporting or not supporting whatever a team.

hold on. roddy doyle sits in the pub to watch the national team. thats fine, no-one has a problem with that, but people do have a problem with him appointing himself an expert, doing the domestic game down and supporting wimbledon for dublin.

lets call a spade a spade, he is a bar stool ole oler. and his opinion on football should be treated as such.

NeilMcD

17/05/2006, 5:00 PM

I agree with you , I did not realised that Doyle had said those things about the EL and the bringing of Wimbledon to Dublin. I think there are a lot of contradictions in his head if he supports Chelsea and Ireland and wants to bring Wimbledon to Dublin.

Karlos

17/05/2006, 10:25 PM

I think some of this guff aimed at Doyle is merited and some is grossly unfair. Doyle has been a regular at Lansdowne Road for Donkey's years now so I'm not sure how that classify's him as a barstooler. He was going long before the ole ole buzz kicked off. A relation of mine has close business ties with Doyle and I know this as fact. I've met him in Searsons on Baggot Street before many a game down through the years.

As he says in the piece itself "remember nothing about the '86 qualifying games even though I went to all the home ones."

His opinions are of course open to debate and I disagree with some of them but I don't believe because he watched a major tournament at home like so many of us for many reasons that he should be labelled a barstooler. :)

NY Hoop

18/05/2006, 11:43 AM

Its very easy to put on a green scarf and go to Lansdowne once a month or once every two months.

There are people who follow Ireland everywhere but who wouldnt spend a penny to watch their local EL side. I've met some of them...........

KOH

NeilMcD

18/05/2006, 11:46 AM

There are people who follow their Local EL side everywhere but would not watch their national team also. I have met some of them.

There are people who follower their local EL side but would not follower their local amateur league team also I have met some of them

There are people who follow a foreign team but do not support their local EL side I know I have met some of them

THere are some people who do not follow any team I know I have met some of them

NY Hoop

18/05/2006, 12:42 PM

NeilMcD

18/05/2006, 12:47 PM

No I am not a politician

geysir

18/05/2006, 12:51 PM

I've met him in Searsons on Baggot Street before many a game down through the years.
As he says in the piece itself "remember nothing about the '86 qualifying games even though I went to all the home ones."
Then I suspect he spent too much time on the barstool in Searsons before the '86 qual games :)

His opinions are of course open to debate and I disagree with some of them but I don't believe because he watched a major tournament at home like so many of us for many reasons that he should be labelled a barstooler. :)
The attitude that Doyle expressed re the EL is condescending, derogatory and ultimately defeatist. To bring it into the public domain in the manner he did sets himself up to receive a barrage of bollócking. It wasn't just an off the cuff attempt at humor, but an expression of a belief.
I enjoyed his books but strange enough not the bit in the VAN about Italy '90, i thought it was contrived, clichéed sporting memory a la Joe O'Connor and I didn't relate to it. In this piece he doesn't set himself up as an expert just somebody who shared and wrote about the moment in a pub along with a million others.

stojkovic

19/05/2006, 1:11 AM

Doyle's books are ok but his timing was good. This was the start of the Tiger with all things Irish being embraced all over the world - U2, Cranberries, Riverdance FFS. And the Irish team was viewed as a nice novelty with their English manager. Charlton was more famous than all the players put together.

I went to Euro88, I was earning £100 a week and the trip cost £800 EXCLUDING spending money. The equivalent of £5000 plus spending money today for an eight day trip. I saved for eight months. Upon my return a member of the newly formed (now outlawed) Ole Ole Brigade told me that I missed all the craic in the pub !!!!

Don't know why I bothered going to support my team.

For Italia 90 I bought an inflatable hammer and stayed at home.

Just before 88 we played Brasil in a friendly at Lansdowne. Brasil now, not Malta. 17,000 fans turned up to see Romario and his mates. Two years later 50,000 (and 12,000 inflatable bananas) turned up to see Malta. I was at Brasil game and couldnt get a ticket for Malta. Ole ole ole.

OwlsFan

19/05/2006, 9:59 AM

Or the 14,000 (5000 of whom were Danes) for the final game at Lansdowne of the Eoin Hand era in 1985 against Denmark (1-4 defeat). A mere 3 years later hundreds of thousands welcomed the team back from Germany. The power of TV - that's life.

gustavo

19/05/2006, 10:02 AM

Its just a fact of life that the more successful a team is the more fans it attracts. Would have been stranger if we still only pulled crowds of 14000 post 1988

OwlsFan

19/05/2006, 10:13 AM

That said, I remember Dalymount bursting at the seams with 40K + inside (and on top) :eek: for a friendly against Italy in the 1970s - how anyone wasn't killed that night I'll never know. So the latent support was always there - it just needed the catalyst in "wor" Jack.

NY Hoop

19/05/2006, 10:17 AM

The Italy friendly was in February 1985. Remember the night well. Was also at the Brazil game but thats the football culture in this country.

KOH

Stuttgart88

19/05/2006, 10:30 AM

how anyone wasn't killed that night I'll never know.
Hear hear.

And yes, there were loads of full houses in the pre-Jack days. Spain 3-3, France 3-2 spring to mind. I think the 1-1 against Holland also. Plus even more in the 70s. But equally there were loads of poor turnouts.

Wsan't the Argentina friendly when Maradona made a cameo as a teenager played in front of a full house?

stojkovic

19/05/2006, 11:40 AM

Wsan't the Argentina friendly when Maradona made a cameo as a teenager played in front of a full house?Yes but it was no cameo. Maradona played a full part in 1979 at Lansdowne.

Going back to Brasil 1987, we were in a great position at the time to qualify with i think 2 games left. The real fans were there but the Ole Ole Brigade weren't formed til summer 89. Italy in 1985 were world champions at the time and the fai had to play it at Dalymount because Lansdowne was getting the 'new stand' built. Can you believe that it was 'pay at the door' that night and not all-ticket. Only positive thing that night was McGrath making his debut.

geysir

19/05/2006, 12:21 PM

The last game of the Eoin Hand era. You had to have the resolve of a person facing the firing squad to attend that game. Morale was as low as a Dunphy blow. The Brasil friendly was freakishly low attended.
In the main, support has been from very good to the packed house and roof from 1969 onwards.
I do remember some friendlies, one of which in 1978, absolute meaningless tripe against a cráp Turkey, mid week, day time ko, attracting an amazing 20,000 plus.