View Full Version : Donegal Celtic promoted
dcfcsteve
15/05/2006, 12:02 PM
My exact point. What gives anyone on here the right to decide what is right and what is wrong?
Common sense does David.
You seem unable to de-tangle the concept of 'wrong' from the concepts of illegality or inappropriateness.
For example - singing pro-Sinn Fein chants at a football match wouldn't be illegal. But it would be completely and utterly inappropriate, and considered by most people to also be 'wrong'. If only morally, and in terms of its impact upon relationships in northern ireland. I'm sure you'd have a word or two to say about it as well. If not - I certainly would.
So not everything that isn't illegal isn't 'wrong'. Common sense dictates what is - and you know full well that you're in a tiny minority if you feel that jingoistic and triumphal displays of nationality/identity/patriotism (!?) at football games in Northern Ireland are anything other than 'wrong' in the eys of the vast majority of people. And in terms of common sense. Hence why the IFA has been trying to stamp it out at international games. Hence why the majority of people here - and in the Northern Irish media and society - have an issue with it.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 12:23 PM
Seriously Gonzo, you're being a total WUM here.
Have you ever been to the Brandywell for a match? In fact have you ever been to a Derry match at all? I assure you that, whilst almost none of us are apolitical, we leave our views at the door when we go and see City.
I've been going to the Brandywell almost 15 years (with a gap of four years when I got turned by the EPL - thankfully I've rekindled my love for Derry City since that horrendous period), and I've never heard sectarian or political chants, let alone Ireland flags (barring our brief sojourns in Europe).
Get educated on the club and it's supporters before you go spouting off absolute rubbish!
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 12:26 PM
Also Gonzo, judging on your posting history you appear not to be at all interested in the IL or eL. Go back to your SPL appreciation threads and stop taunting those of us who support our local teams.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 12:32 PM
The majority of Derry people, and Derry fans are without doubt overtly political when you meet them in an everyday situation. However as others have tried to tell you, we don't tolerate it in our ground.
dcfcsteve
15/05/2006, 12:36 PM
Exactly. But then again if you don't happen to agree with a certain 'Mr.Derry City', doubtless their only apolitical fan, you happen to undergo his own unique form of 'banter'.:rolleyes: & he thinks others should 'grow up'.;)
Personally feel it's largely unrepresentative of that community (I respect the general well-meaning efforts to play down overt nationalism, But it's unrealistic to expect the type of 'Denial' being advocated.), and if he wants to pontificate in such a pompous manner, that's up to him.
I suggest he contacts a local DJ ASAP.............
Gonzo - you really do ned to stop sniffing that glue. None of the above makes any feckin sense !! :o
What the feck's a local DJ got to do with it ?? Would you like one to call you a taxi.....?
Let this be a warning to us all of the dangers of drugs. And WUM's....
Speranza
15/05/2006, 1:11 PM
Exactly. But then again if you don't happen to agree with a certain 'Mr.Derry City', doubtless their only apolitical fan, you happen to undergo his own unique form of 'banter'. & he thinks others should 'grow up'
Did you read the rest of the thread? We aren't apolitical but
we leave issues that at the gate when we enter the Brandywell
Why do think football teams have to politicize (sp?) themsleves? What good does it do to push the obvious leaning of a group of fans down the oppositions throat?
When was the last time you were at the Brandy? You are being told by City fans that there are NO tri-colours on show at matches but still doubt it. You are the one in denial as your argument has so many holes in it.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 1:21 PM
politicize (sp?)
Bloody yanks....
It's politicise here.
Anyway, what we've learnt here is that Gonzo is taking the foot.ie tagline a bit too literally - he's talking absolute balls.
Common sense does David.
You seem unable to de-tangle the concept of 'wrong' from the concepts of illegality or inappropriateness.
For example - singing pro-Sinn Fein chants at a football match wouldn't be illegal. But it would be completely and utterly inappropriate, and considered by most people to also be 'wrong'. If only morally, and in terms of its impact upon relationships in northern ireland. I'm sure you'd have a word or two to say about it as well. If not - I certainly would.
So not everything that isn't illegal isn't 'wrong'. Common sense dictates what is - and you know full well that you're in a tiny minority if you feel that jingoistic and triumphal displays of nationality/identity/patriotism (!?) at football games in Northern Ireland are anything other than 'wrong' in the eys of the vast majority of people. And in terms of common sense. Hence why the IFA has been trying to stamp it out at international games. Hence why the majority of people here - and in the Northern Irish media and society - have an issue with it.
So public opinion now determines what is right and wrong? Maybe we should bring back the death penalty.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 1:55 PM
David you know it's not as simple as that. We live in a divided society, and the tribalistic waving of (obviously) inflammatory flags doesn't help on the grand scale of things. It reinforces sectarianism whether you realise it or not.
David you know it's not as simple as that. We live in a divided society, and the tribalistic waving of (obviously) inflammatory flags doesn't help on the grand scale of things. It reinforces sectarianism whether you realise it or not.
What is inflammatory about a flag? What is wrong with people displaying the flag of their country, be that country the UK or Ireland?
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 2:17 PM
David, you are being extremely naive if you think that flags are not an inflammatory issue in Northern Ireland.
Personally, if I'm walking through an area and see Union Flags flying from lampposts I automatically feel completely intimidated. Similarly I know many unionists who feel similarly intimidated when they walk through an area with Tricolours flying.
Down South or in Britain I have no problem with people flying whatever national flag they want, but it would be foolish to assume that the situation is the same in NI. The Union Flag conjures images of Loyalist terror and the years of oppression people suffered during the 20th Century in NI, and I'm sure the Tricolour invokes images of the IRA to many unionists.
You don't need a national flag to support your local football team, so why bring it? By all means take it to GB and NI sporting events, where your national team are playing.
Two different scenarios here though. Too see a flag flying from a lampost is one side or other marking out their territory so it is obviously going to be intimidating for someone of the other persuasion to be in that area. Flags at a football match are completely different though. They are there for people to profess allegiance to their country and this is done all over the world. Indeed some clubs even have the flag of their country on their shirt. What is intimidating about that? As I said earlier, if someone finds a flag so offensive then I feel it is they who have the problem and not the person with the flag.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 2:42 PM
'All over the world' is very different from NI David, as you continually fail to acknowledge. I've never been to Windsor, but I'm sure if I went to a Linfield game I'd be as intimidated by the flags as I would if they were on any lamppost.
Football is one of the only obvious uniting factors in NI - everyone likes it. Why can't we leave the politics (and with the politics, the flags which do carry political weight) at the doors of our stadia? Football could be used as a force for good in NI, uniting Taigs and Huns alike. Lets face it, Linfield aren't going to get many catholics through the door if the fans continually wave the Union Flag or sing The Sash etc, just as Belfast Celtic won't get many protestants. I just wish that football would become an area of recreation in NI that could be untainted with all the sh1tty history of our insignificant patch.
'All over the world' is very different from NI David, as you continually fail to acknowledge. I've never been to Windsor, but I'm sure if I went to a Linfield game I'd be as intimidated by the flags as I would if they were on any lamppost.
Football is one of the only obvious uniting factors in NI - everyone likes it. Why can't we leave the politics (and with the politics, the flags which do carry political weight) at the doors of our stadia? Football could be used as a force for good in NI, uniting Taigs and Huns alike. Lets face it, Linfield aren't going to get many catholics through the door if the fans continually wave the Union Flag or sing The Sash etc, just as Belfast Celtic won't get many protestants. I just wish that football would become an area of recreation in NI that could be untainted with all the sh1tty history of our insignificant patch.
Northern Ireland is only different if you allow it to be. Surely it is the mindset that needs changed so that people can take a flag for what it is, a sign of patriotism. I have been to Solitude many times and it was bedecked with tricolours and I did not find it in the least intimidating because of this, indeed I was at Parkhead and there were hundreds of tricolours, did not annoy me in the slightest. If people stop going out of their way to be offended then maybe we can start to progress. The Union flag at our games, indeed the club themselves fly the Union flag, we are a British club, does not annoy the many Catholic players that play for us.
pól-dcfc
15/05/2006, 3:08 PM
Northern Ireland is only different if you allow it to be.
Sure get back to me when they make me King of NI.
Krstic
15/05/2006, 3:50 PM
And it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.
dcfcsteve
16/05/2006, 12:33 AM
Fair enough. By your standards.:p
Do look forward in future though on the basis of your collective 'edict', to then contradicting everyone I meet & know from that part of the world. ;)
You're still not gettin' it are you Gonzo !
Derry people have political views. People all over the world have political views.
Derry City fans leave their political views at the gate of the Brandywell. People all over the world also leave political views out of football (though sadly not enough amongst certain other Northern Irish and Scottish teams...)
Why are you obsessed with welding political expression onto the Derry City support when everyone is telling you that yer talking out of yer arse and you don't even appear to have been to the Brandywell ?
Whatever the odd random Derry person you meet in your travels says away from the Brandywell is frankly fcuking irrelevant. Please try and grasp this whole concept.
pól-dcfc
16/05/2006, 9:16 AM
Gonzo. You are talking ******. No one says anyone from Derry is dispassionate about their views, but the small minority of Derry people who go to the Brandywell are extremely passionate about keeping politics OUT of our football ground. Growing up in a deeply devided society, football became an escape root from sectarianism. Fair enough our Protestant support isn't that large, but we want to be as welcoming as possible to every section of society.
Just because your heros in Scotland can't leave politics out of football doesn't mean that it's the same accross every club in the world. I'll ask again - have you ever been to the Brandywell for a game? Next time you're up in Derry gimme a shout and you can point out all these tricolours, balaclavas and IRA chants for me. The many years exposure to it has obviously made me completely immune to their presence.
dcfcsteve
16/05/2006, 11:11 AM
Steve;You are Indeed The Oracle.:eek:
Like I say, every sports fan from the banks of The Foyle is completely :rolleyes: dispassionate and their views are irrelevant and insignificant when compared to your own. I'll ask them to get in touch sometime to discuss your 'concept'.
Let's just leave it at that.:p
We'll leave it at that when you find someone to translate the madness of your meaningless posts ! What you've posted above has zero relevance or connection to what I was saying.
What the feck are you on Gonzo ? Watching you on this thread is the online version of car crash television. You really do need to tuck into a few packets of those 'wise ups'......
lofty9
25/05/2006, 3:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/5015488.stm
good news for Donegal Celtic, now allowed to play at their own ground.
dcfcsteve
25/05/2006, 11:05 PM
Call me a cynic, but I strongly suspect an IFA fudge here.
Donegal Celtic's ground clearly doesn't meet the rules. Rather than tell them that, however, I suspect that the IFA's 'previous' with Donegal Celtic has made them afraid to stick to the rules - which is what they should've done. Instead, they've bottled a confrontation, and decided to change the rules themselves !!
This sets a dangerous precedent. In future, any club who's ground isn't up-to-scratch would be entitled to point to this decision to have the rules waived for them. There is therefore no incentive any more for clubs to spend money on their grounds prior to securing promotion.
Call me a cynic, but I strongly suspect an IFA fudge here.
Donegal Celtic's ground clearly doesn't meet the rules. Rather than tell them that, however, I suspect that the IFA's 'previous' with Donegal Celtic has made them afraid to stick to the rules - which is what they should've done. Instead, they've bottled a confrontation, and decided to change the rules themselves !!
This sets a dangerous precedent. In future, any club who's ground isn't up-to-scratch would be entitled to point to this decision to have the rules waived for them. There is therefore no incentive any more for clubs to spend money on their grounds prior to securing promotion.
My sentiments on this one exactly. Even with the reduced criteria though I can see them struggling to make it for the start of the season as they have currently no seats or no turnstiles and only one entrance to the ground.
Krstic
26/05/2006, 1:45 PM
Is it not true though David, that more than one Premier League team was struggling to meet the criteria?
I can name one more and it's not far from Derry.
Is it not true though David, that more than one Premier League team was struggling to meet the criteria?
I can name one more and it's not far from Derry.
Probably is true to a certain extent but I don't think anyone is struggling to make the criteria as much as DC and some of the criteria is totally unnecessary from what I have read. I am assuming you are talking about Limavady and there can be no doubting that their ground is not up to a decent standard, it is awful but even it is far superior to Donegal Celtic.
The problem is the IFA criteria, no-one seems to know what its going to be year to year.
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