Pats & Derry as title challengers [Archive]

el punter

07/05/2006, 10:07 AM

What's your thoughts then lads, do you think they are going to be around for the long haul this season? The League Cup defeat can be taken with a pinch of salt I reckon...

It's a very impressive run they are on and there's very little talk about them. The same might be said of Derry also. They are chipping away winning game after game while all the focus seems to be on Shels, Drogheda and Cork.

Do we have a genuine 5 way tussle for the title or are we going to see Pats and Derry run out of steam?

MariborKev

07/05/2006, 10:46 AM

We're well used to be written off in Derry

The whole of last season we were told that we couldn't last the pace. Yet we managed to amass a points total that would have won the league any year in the last decade bar the last one.

This year is the same. We are second, a game in hand, top scorers and yet we aren't realistic challengers to most.

We're more than happy to keep it that way

Eoingull

07/05/2006, 11:48 AM

Derry are the best team I've seen this season. They completely outclassed us on Friday. It's a credit to the Bray lads we only lost 3-0...it could have been 6 or 7.

DmanDmythDledge

07/05/2006, 11:48 AM

I think Derry will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, but won't win the league. Pats have surprised me this season and I think it will be between them and Cork for 4th place.

A face

07/05/2006, 12:01 PM

all the focus seems to be on Shels, Drogheda and Cork.

Do we have a genuine 5 way tussle for the title or are we going to see Pats and Derry run out of steam?

It would make for another great title run in if it is all five down to the wire, that is exactly what we need and that is exactly what every fan should want, a good competitive league, hopefully there will be some great games along the way.

dcfcsteve

07/05/2006, 1:13 PM

The same might be said of Derry also. They are chipping away winning game after game while all the focus seems to be on Shels, Drogheda and Cork.

Do we have a genuine 5 way tussle for the title or are we going to see Pats and Derry run out of steam?

I had to check the date of this thread to see that it was written in 2006, rather than 2005.

As Maribor commented, everyone wrote us off last year, and suits us fine if you fools do so again this year.

Strange that you aren't questioning Drogheda, as there's genuinely more chance of them running out of steam. They were way off the pace last year, and have shown themselves incapable of registering more than a single goal in any game. That may win you cups, but not the league....

As Pacino said in 'The Devil's Advocate' : "Never let them see you coming.."

el punter

07/05/2006, 1:18 PM

Strange that you aren't questioning Drogheda, as there's genuinely more chance of them running out of steam. "

Not disagreeing with you Steve, I'm just talking about the attention that the Drogs get over Derry. I was amazed to see Derry at 11/2 preseason having added to the squad for the league while Cork who beat them by no more than luck than tilting it their way actually had a depleted squad but were 2/1.

It's all about perception, I think Derry will be tough as nails at the business end of the race this year as they've been there while Drogheda may struggle when the title chase is on.

But yeah, I hope all five teams are there serving up a heap of exciting title deciding clashes for the last few months of the season.

With the Drogs pipping them all for us holding the 15/2 Each Way dockets :)

Dr.Nightdub

07/05/2006, 1:23 PM

What the League Cup did show is that we haven't got huge depth in our squad. We've been missing Colm Foley, Stephen Caffrey and Mark Rutherford for the last month or so and further injuries or suspensions will hurt us badly. On the other hand, when those three and Chris Armstrong are fit again, we'll be better set up.

I haven't seen Derry yet so can't judge, but everyone seems to be saying good things about them.

As for the other contenders, we beat Cork comfortably, came within 7 minutes of beating Shels only for them to snatch a draw (and it was them that snatched the draw, not us) and were within 3 minutes of holding Drogheda before they did their 1-0 routine.

What might make a difference is that we've all four of them twice in Richmond and only once away. Last season, when we were cr�p, we won one and lost one in Cork, two draws in Drogheda and drew one and lost one in Derry, so I wouldn't be over-terrified of the away matches. Plus we've all four of them in Richmond in the third series of games.

I still go by what I said at the start of the season - all I'm looking for is a distinct improvement on the last couple of years and so far, we're getting that. For now, I'm just enjoying the relative novelty of being where we are in the table! :)

A face

07/05/2006, 1:24 PM

As Pacino said in 'The Devil's Advocate' : "Never let them see you coming.."

Steve .... you're watching too much telly !! :p :D

pineapple stu

07/05/2006, 1:29 PM

Derry are quite clearly title challengers - possibly even the favourites at this early stage (sorry Kev!). Shels are improving and should be up there, while Cork seem to be improving of late but at the moment I can't see them retaining the title. I can't see Pat's keeping up the pace, though then again, a couple of months ago I couldn't see any reason for an improvement on last year, and (cue much complaints from Drogheda fans that I have an anti-Doolin bias) I can't see Drogheda lasting the pace. They faded badly in 2004 and I think once teams work out how to play against them, they may well do the same. I think the Shels game showed their game plan isn't very suited to chasing games (unless the team in question withdraws into their shell...)

Dr.Nightdub

07/05/2006, 1:35 PM

Stu's post just reminded me that among other things this season, we got our first win in Belfield since 1996 (when John McDonnell scored the winner). If that's not an omen, I dunno what is! :D

pineapple stu

07/05/2006, 1:53 PM

And the first Pat's goal in Belfield since the League Cup Final - 725 minutes or so of "action" without conceding!

But you think youz have it bad - 25 years since Sligo won there in the league! :)

Poor Student

07/05/2006, 2:02 PM

I told Pineapple Stu at the start of the season that Pat's would do well and finish above us, he's still pretty insistent on writing them off.:p I honestly can't see Pat's putting in a sustainable challenge, but who knows? They could be this season what Derry were last season. Derry are most certainly title challengers. Out of all the games I've been to this season, they've been the best team I've seen face us. Drogs have certainly made me think twice having totally written them off before the season, but I still think they lack the all round game plan to handle going behind in a match and will drop points as the season goes on when those narrow wins turn to 0-0 draws and defeats. Shels and Cork, well, it's obviously within their potential, but they need to get the consistency together over a long period.

Dodge

07/05/2006, 4:11 PM

thejollyrodger

07/05/2006, 4:46 PM

Shelbourne should be in the title of this thread. Please edit mod !

Cosmo

07/05/2006, 4:50 PM

I honestly haven't seen abetter team than us this season but nobody at Richmond expects us to be in with a shout for the league. Like Hoopdub said, we're improving and for the moment thats good enough

Don't think Pats will challenge for the league!

Best team I've seen this year has been Shels. I said before the seaosn started that whoever finishes above shels will win the league, and I'll stand by that!

Derry will probably finish 2nd, though hopefully we can realistically push them for that spot. We'll give it a shot anyway!

Thought Pats did very well against us and won't be far off 4th spot and if they get a bit of luck, might even nick that spot

daveh

07/05/2006, 4:51 PM

I was amazed to see Derry at 11/2 preseason having added to the squad for the league while Cork who beat them by no more than luck than tilting it their way actually had a depleted squad but were 2/1.

It was a lot more than luck in fairness:rolleyes:

I think this year will be the most open league race in ages,it really bugs me though when all you derry lads keep saying yere not getting enough attention but then totally contradict yereselves in saying that its brilliant that yere being written off.

Do ye want to be scrutinised like we are every week or would ye rather just go along quietly unnoticed??Very rarely do ya get the best of both worlds

TonyD

07/05/2006, 4:58 PM

Shelbourne should be in the title of this thread. Please edit mod !

Em, why ? When the thread is to do with whether Pats & Derry are genuine contenders.

As for the question, Derry are certainly among the favourites for the league and I don't know why anyone would question that. I'd love to say the same about Pats, but as Dr Nightdub says, strength in depth could be our problem. We're capable of staying top 5 certainly and, with Foley and Armstrong to come back, possibly even sneaking into the top 3. Don't honestly see us winning it though.

Anyway roll on Friday when Derry come to Richmond. Should be a cracker.

Dassa

07/05/2006, 5:11 PM

I personally cant see why Derry were not seen as one of the favourites from the start. they had a great season last year and lost none of their squad and actually managed to bring in a few new players ie McHugh etc.

Dazzy

07/05/2006, 5:54 PM

Anyway roll on Friday when Derry come to Richmond. Should be a cracker.

Cant wait to get down for it, hopefully a derry win but can see it ending 2-2.

pete

07/05/2006, 5:59 PM

I don't think anyone would deny Derry City bare not title contenders. Will score plenty of goals & good home record. I would say jury is out on their abilities in away games to top teams but if they can win at home won't matter. I would have Derry ahead of Drogs as last seasons experience will be valuable.

Drogs are defensively solid but don't attack much. Also inexperienced team bar few ex-Bohs players.

Shels also have fire power but seriously dodgy defence. If they get clean sheets could win.

Cork City, solid defence, lacking fit scoring forwards & left wing. Biggest strength is confidence of last year & proven big game team. Champions League involvement could kill small squad if don't add 1-2 quality players.

Pats are unproven & realistically top 6 would be progress. No european football could help them but hard to see how could win the league unless becomes a tight 5 team competition.

Nobody else has any hope.

el punter

07/05/2006, 6:10 PM

Will score plenty of goals & good home record. I would say jury is out on their abilities in away games to top teams but if they can win at home won't matter.

Not to be an utter smartarse but Derry won as many league points away as at home last season. They played one extra fixture away...but got as many points.

Cork actually won more points away from home.

It does a little to disparage the ocassional whining from the non-Dublin clubs about how many more titles would be won if the massive round trips to Dublin hadn't to be made up to 10 times a season or so. (I appreciate this is a minor digression from the core topic)

Speranza

07/05/2006, 6:39 PM

Pete, look at our record at Tolka, it couldn't really be any better. Losing twice at the X was the only time we didnt play well aginst the better teams.

sligoman

07/05/2006, 7:02 PM

el punter

07/05/2006, 7:10 PM

Pat's did not look good enough to be classed "title challengers" when they came to the Showgrounds earlier this season and I don't think they will be come the end of the season either. Derry will be though.

Shels weren't too hot against you either but I wouldn't think you'd write them off.

Would it be fair to say Pats now have a similar profile to what Derry's was at this stage last year...kind of a "nice to see them up there, but it won't last" thing?

sligoman

07/05/2006, 7:13 PM

Shels weren't too hot against you either but I wouldn't think you'd write them off.Shels were a lot better than Pat's were. They dominated the second half, Pat's didn't dominate either. Pat's were easily the worst team bar Waterford to have come to the Showgrounds so far this season in my opinion, that includes Bohs;).

harry crumb

07/05/2006, 8:42 PM

The "BIG 4" are a good bit ahead of the other teams.

I can't see Pats breaking into the top 4 positions. I just don't think they have enough good players.

However 5th would be a great season.

It is shaping up to be an excellent race for the title.

Its up to teams like Longford, Sligo to try and bridge the gap.

pineapple stu

07/05/2006, 8:46 PM

Its up to teams like Longford, Sligo to try and bridge the gap.
Why focus on teams in the bottom half?;)

Next two rounds (i.e. to the end of the first round of matches) feature a lot of games between the top five - Cork v Shels, Pat's v Derry and Derry v Cork - and also a few games against teams in the bottom seven - UCD v Longford (postponed admittedly), Waterford v Dublin City, Bray v Sligo and Dublin City v UCD, so there's a chance for the gap between the to pfive and the rest to close up a bit.

Dodge

07/05/2006, 9:05 PM

Just noticed that Derry haven't played any of the other top 5...

kdjaC

07/05/2006, 9:51 PM

Im hoping for 5th for us and i rexckon Derry will win the league have done since the start. Im just happy i sort of expect us to win at Richmond regardless of who we playing. Its been a while.

kdjac

Speranza

07/05/2006, 10:49 PM

Dodge, we haven't played any of the top 5 in the league but we drew with Shels twice in the Setanta.

Patronizer

08/05/2006, 7:23 AM

Aaron

08/05/2006, 9:17 AM

we drew with Shels twice in the Setanta.

Two games we shud have won! If Darren Kelly was to sign for us this wud only strengthen our squad and it seems more than likely he will, i think we will honestly have the strongest squad in the premier division. Signing him cud be the difference of us winning the league. As i said from the start cork havnt strengthend and will eventually falter in my opinion. Shels will start to pick up more points and drogheda may start to take a dip after the shels defeat. Pat's cud be the suprise package and i wudnt rule them out yet cause they cud do wot we done last year.

wws

08/05/2006, 11:00 AM

Pats wont come anywhere near winning the league but we're back as the team everyone hates to play - we're solid and tough tackling with Maguire and Mulcahy providing the steel and solid spine that the others willingly work hard around and we've singlehandedly ressurrected the scoring talents of Paul Keegan and Trevor Molloy, two vets of the LoI enjoying an unlikely Indian Summer to their careers. Creatively,the under rated Mick Foley has bedded down after a frustrating start to LoI football and now knows how to be effective in this league, sometimes you need a season of failure before creative players like him twig how to be effective in this type of football. He's learned, he's now central to how we play. Add in a couple of bright young things Sean O Connor and Luke Fitzpatrick (debut v Dub City) and we have a lively mix which will trouble all the teams til we get the inevitable injury to Keego or Molloy.

In reply to the Sligoman - Keego and Molloy are central to our forward threat - they have to play together to be effective - Keego was suspended against yous and Molloy got injuered and came off in the first half - hence you didnt see us at our best and we STILL SNATCHED a point through sheer doggedness against you. I believe Sligo will be excellent at home and dire away this year

sligoman

08/05/2006, 11:37 AM

I believe Sligo will be excellent at home and dire away this yearThanks for pointing out the obvious:rolleyes: :p.

micls

08/05/2006, 11:54 AM

Derry will definately be challenging come the end of the season. I think one of the top four will win it but honestly think it would be foolish to try to pick a winner at this stage. If the league stays as close as it is I think the run of games after Eupore will be the key to winning the league. It'l be interesting to see how Derry and Drogheda react to their european adventure and if ours and shels experience will be of any advantage.

Pats will do well this year I think but will be hard pushed to break into the top four. They have solved their goalscoring problem of last year and are solid defensively. The one advantage they might have is not having the distraction of Europe. If any of the top four slipup as a result of Europe Pats could challenge for a top 4 place. Don't think they are title contenders though

wws

08/05/2006, 11:56 AM

Your welcome. My special subject is analysing the "bleedin obvious". I'm hoping for a job on TV3's EL Weekly!

desaintsno.12

08/05/2006, 5:17 PM

don't think we'll win this year but we've come on so much from last year.we seem to fear no one now which is a big change. i feel we are cpaable of gettin a top 4 however if we get a bad run of injuries mid season it could all change but on the other hand if the squad stays fit we have an excellent chance of europe

pete

09/05/2006, 10:12 AM

...I think one of the top four will win...

Are you Paul Osam?

:eek:

dcfc_dee

09/05/2006, 11:21 AM

Are you Paul Osam?

:eek:

seems like it

dcfcsteve

09/05/2006, 12:50 PM

seems like it

I'll go really out on a limb, and say that whoever's top at the end of the season will probably win it.

Or whoever finishes 12th from bottom. I'm torn between the two.....

:D

micls

09/05/2006, 1:18 PM

sarcastic F*ckers the lot of ye...Ye knew what I meant one of Derry, Shels, City or Drogheda will win. :D

Now leave me alone Im trying to study

dcfcsteve

09/05/2006, 2:05 PM

... one of Derry, Shels, City or Drogheda will win. :D

But Derry are City....! :D

Stay focused micls - education, education, education....... :)

micls

09/05/2006, 2:11 PM

But Derry are City....! :D

Stay focused micls - education, education, education.......

I thought it was blatently obvious i meant Dublin City :rolleyes: :D

S�C

09/05/2006, 2:11 PM

I'll go really out on a limb, and say that whoever's top at the end of the season will probably win it.

Or whoever finishes 12th from bottom. I'm torn between the two.....

:D

Didnt the team who finished 2nd win the league a few years back?
;)