Best English city to live and work in? [Archive] - Page 2

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REVIP

09/05/2006, 5:49 PM

Hull (where I am moving in Septemebr) is also excellent. Worse rep than it deserves, not a massive city but big enough to get lost in. Has sports, nightlife etc. and is also near to York and the Docks.

Liam,

Hull topped a poll for British towns in 2003. It was covered by the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3158298.stm ;)

dcfcsteve

10/05/2006, 12:44 AM

Hull (where I am moving in Septemebr) is also excellent. Worse rep than it deserves, not a massive city but big enough to get lost in. Has sports, nightlife etc. and is also near to York and the Docks.

Hull is surprisingly big ! When you take in the size of the city prooper (i.e. not just the city's administrative borders) it's something like the 5th biggest in England. It's the one place that's even more isolated than Newcastle though. When you're in Hull all you've got is Grimsby and the North Sea for company....!

By the way Steve is there a city that you haven't dated a girl from? ;)

Liam - when you're as old as I am and been as single for as long as I have (I really struggled to recount when my last relationship was to someone today..:mad: ), you get to whorr yourself around a fair few parts of the country. Two years in an apparent position of influence at University also helped..... :o) I haven't dated anyone from Hull - though my best mate in England is marrying one and I'm Best Man at the wedding if that counts vicariously...?

placid casual

10/05/2006, 11:59 AM

dunno if it counts as a city but for area the nicest place in the colonial backwater has to be cornwall. nice people,great cider and beautifull scenery.

pete

10/05/2006, 1:27 PM

Anyone know much about Sheffield? Brother might have opportunity to live there but not heard great things.

aido_b

10/05/2006, 1:50 PM

Don't mind him Aido. If it's non-league football you want there are plenty of clubs in and just outside Birmingham.

Tamworth - Conference (at least for the moment pending an appeal against relegation by Altrincham)
Kidderminster Harriers - Conference
Stafford Rangers - just promoted to Conference
Nuneaton Borough - Conference North
Moor Green (south Birmingham) - Conference North
Redditch United - Conference North

No need to go on any further, I presume... :)

:ball: PP

PP I'm afraid that I'm now Wolves through and through!

dcfcsteve

10/05/2006, 3:06 PM

dunno if it counts as a city but for area the nicest place in the colonial backwater has to be cornwall. nice people,great cider and beautifull scenery.

Err - no. It's a County. What part of that didn't ya know....? :p ;)

It's one of the very few English counties to not even contain any cities ! Oo-arrrrrrr....!

anto1208

10/05/2006, 3:10 PM

anywhere up north is class very friendly people nutters but funny , liverpool is really nice now they have done massive amounts of work to it for the city of culture 08 , it will be the best shopping city in europe by then ,plus 2 prem clubs next door to each other , and its a small enough city ive walked from one side to the other in under an hour .

Mad Moose

10/05/2006, 5:35 PM

Anyone know much about Sheffield? Brother might have opportunity to live there but not heard great things.

Hard to know Pete.Certainly not the most asthetically pleasing city and its very much a city of contrasts. I found the 'likely to be Sheffield Utd fans' people friendly and warming. Football is a great leveller you see. I was made very welcome at Bramall Lane.On the other hand the well hidden and poorly sign posted Hillsborough end was the well to do part of town.Even the accents were different. I say poorly sign posted in reference to the home of Sheffield Wednesday. I always go on my instinct and I liked Sheffield in a funny old way.Difference in a couple of days and nights mind to a few months or years.

Brendan

Plastic Paddy

10/05/2006, 5:46 PM

PP I'm afraid that I'm now Wolves through and through!

I wonder, with Glenn Hoddle continuing in charge, whether you'll soon enough get that non-eague club to support! :p

:ball: PP

liam88

10/05/2006, 7:19 PM

Err - no. It's a County. What part of that didn't ya know....?

A county??? A COUNTY???? :mad: :mad: Cornwall is a NATION supressed by the English and intergrated into their country!!

Rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!!!

Pah! "a county" he says!!!

...............................;)

REVIP

10/05/2006, 9:51 PM

A county??? A COUNTY???? Cornwall is a NATION supressed by the English and intergrated into their country!!

Rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!!!

Pah! "a county" he says!!!

The last non-English army to attack London was Cornish

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/cornish_rebels_1497.html

Not a lotta people know that:)

dcfcsteve

11/05/2006, 1:27 AM

On the basis of some Weds.fans, I'd go along with that. The way they call Blades' fans 'Pigs', bears this out.
Though Sheff.is the 2nd.best city in W.Yorks.;)

Sheffield is in South Yorkshire, and the only other city there is Rotherham. It's Leeds and Bradford in West Yorks.

I've a few mates who went to Uni in Sheffield and loved it there - but that's probably as much to do with being at Uni as at Sheffiled.

And Liam - whilst I haven't dated any Sheffield lasses, I did have the occassional fling with a Bath girl who went to Uni up there. :D Had a big old night on the town with her once in Sheffield on my way through to London from Newcastle.

See what I mean about being old and single.... :p

dcfcsteve

11/05/2006, 1:31 AM

A county??? A COUNTY???? :mad: Cornwall is a NATION supressed by the English and intergrated into their country!!

Rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!!!

Pah! "a county" he says!!!

...............................;)

I'm a member of the Celtic League, and former member of 'Cornish Solidarity' - but Cornwall is still a county ! It's also a 'nation', the borders of which are identical with the county borders - but that doesn't stop it from being a county.

Describing Iceland as an island, for example, doesn't question its nationhood/status ... :)

Stuttgart88

11/05/2006, 8:10 AM

Answering Pete's question about Sheffield, it's not that nice a place at all to put it mildly. That said, if I was in my 20s and unattached I'd look forward to the opportunity of trying my luck in any decent sized English city. If the job is worth taking I wouldn't let Sheffield put me off.

Within a 20-30 minute drive of Sheffield you're in the Peak District which is really beautiful. Straight out of Peak Practice. Chatsworth House is amazing & you've got market towns like Bakewell & Matlock to visit. If your brother likes outdoor activities like walking, mountain biking or road cycling, or indeed motorbiking, there are few better places to be near. He'd have two big football clubs to watch & both with Irish interest. You're also within a drive of York & Leeds so you could do a lot worse.

Mad Moose

11/05/2006, 8:29 AM

Answering Within a 20-30 minute drive of Sheffield you're in the Peak District which is really beautiful. Straight out of Peak Practice. Chatsworth House is amazing & you've got market towns like Bakewell & Matlock to visit. If your brother likes outdoor activities like walking, mountain biking or road cycling, or indeed motorbiking, there are few better places to be near. He'd have two big football clubs to watch & both with Irish interest. You're also within a drive of York & Leeds so you could do a lot worse.

Within a 40 min drive your in Derby and not far over the road Nottingham.The Peak District is one of the most amazing places. Little towns like Matlock are beautiful, Derbyshire/Yorkshire stone houses.The heart of the Derbyshire dales.I think it was Matlock I came across the Peak's cable car and I have some fantastic footage of the dales. While Sheffield itself might not be the most attractive place in the world its close proximity to some of the finest scenery I would ever wish to see. A damn good reason to go there.

Brendan

dcfcsteve

11/05/2006, 11:12 AM

Within a 40 min drive your in Derby and not far over the road Nottingham.The Peak District is one of the most amazing places. Little towns like Matlock are beautiful, Derbyshire/Yorkshire stone houses.The heart of the Derbyshire dales.I think it was Matlock I came across the Peak's cable car and I have some fantastic footage of the dales. While Sheffield itself might not be the most attractive place in the world its close proximity to some of the finest scenery I would ever wish to see. A damn good reason to go there.

Brendan

Sounds like another city in the "Come to Birmingham, and visit anywhere else nearby as often as you can" category. If the only plus point in Sheffield is it's proximity to other places, then i for one wouldn't want to live there !!

It'd be like owning a boat or a caravan- apparently people always think they'll use them much more than they actually do in reality (for the record, I own neither and don't know anyone who does :) ) . So why live somewhere purely on the basis that a few times a year on average you might leave it to go to nice places nearby ?

Everywhere in England outside of London, the Home counties, the very south-east corner, and the bit south of Birmingham, has cracking scenery etc nearby. The West Country does, Norfolk/Suffolk does, the North West does, the North East does, Yorkshire does, the East Midlands does, the bits of the West Midlands towards Wales and Warwickshire do. So if the only good reason to live in Sheffield is scenery, feck that and live in one of the numerous decent cities that also have the scenery nearby. Such as Newcastle again..... :D :p

Mad Moose

11/05/2006, 11:52 AM

Christ Steve where might I start in relation to that.Perhaps the mucker has come out in you there and thats not a critisism because I like Derry ;) but my point is that having seen an awful lot of the country I wouldn't have had a particular reason I wouldn't have liked to be in Sheffield.I have however merely mentioned its proximity to pretty cool spots and yes I take your point.Norfolk/Suffolk is amazing for different reasons, the cotswolds and Shropshire has its own unique beauty as of course has North Yorkshire and my favourite the Yorkshire Dales. That wouldn't be a reflection on either Norwich, Birmingham or Leeds its just proximity to such fantastic landscapes. I wont say Sheffield was attractive, its had a history of 'dirty' industry which is possibly the reason it emerged as an urban area.Its not nor would I ever say it would be found in a list of 'places to see before you die'. And that doesn't make it a bad place.There is a spirit there and I found the people as in most of Yorkshire endearing. Not a bad reason to live in a place. You can live there and never ever wish or actually visit say Matlock. When its on your doorstep your less likely to do so. Just stay to hell out of Doncaster. Thank god I was only there for 90 mins plus in and out time!!!

Brendan

Plastic Paddy

11/05/2006, 12:22 PM

Sheffield is in South Yorkshire, and the only other city there is Rotherham

Nope... :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom

I'm a member of the Celtic League

And you're in second place! Sure you'd be running away with the thing if there were another 14 playing alongside you... :D

:ball: PP

dcfcsteve

11/05/2006, 1:05 PM

Nope... :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom

I assume that refers to the Rotherham bit, as Sheffield is indisputably a city in South Yorks.

As for Rotherham being a city - whether ot not it is is supplementary to the Sheffield debate, but a lot of people outside of Wikipadeia seems to think they are. Including organisations you'd expect to know. Do a Google search and you'll see what I mean :

The government : http://www.telewest.co.uk/business/casestudies/company/rotherham_city_council.html

BT : http://web.btireland.ie/news/newsroom.asp?action=view&pressid=43

The Council is also repeatedly listed as 'Rotherham City Council' even though it's a Borough council.

Then Google search 'Doncaster City' for comparison. All you'll see, all there is a load of debate about whether Doncaster should be a city or not, and the odd travel site that lazily calls anything a city. City or not though, I'm glad that Rotherham United brought the demise of MK Dons another step closer last weekend.....

And you're in second place! Sure you'd be running away with the thing if there were another 14 playing alongside you... :D

PP

There's always next season... :D

Seriously though, I'd recommend an organisation called 'The Celtic League' to anyone with an interest in pan-Celtic culture, history, politics and solidarity. It predates the rugby league by a fair few decades, and whilst they don't achieve as much as I'd personally like, it's a great organisation for fostering a sense of solidarity.

They've never been great at updating the website, but here it is anyway : http://www.manxman.co.im/cleague/

Right - back to English cities......

Pauro 76

11/05/2006, 1:19 PM

Right - back to English cities......

Was in Nottingham last weekend, quite a nice place, not the dump i was expecting... didnt see anything like the myth that its apparantly that the city has the ratio of two girls for every one fella. But udging by soem of the horrors on offer, i can see why! :eek:

Hither green

11/05/2006, 3:29 PM

Plastic Paddy

11/05/2006, 3:39 PM

The Council is also repeatedly listed as 'Rotherham City Council' even though it's a Borough council.

I work as a strategic policy bod in local government and it's my (nerdish) job to know things like local authority powers and duties, administrative and ceremonial status by area, all that kind of thing. Wikipedia has it right on this one. Rotherham is certainly not a city and, apart from the Telewest and BT Ireland (!) references you include, I've never seen Rotherham MBC referred to as anything other than that.

Lots of places try the "city" trick, although Milton Keynes is the worst transgressor by far, referring to itself continually in those terms in corporate publicity.

Since it's in Brenda's gift to confer such honours in the UK, I'm sure there will be a reason soon enough to raise a few more towns to city level. And anyway, you can't polish a turd. City or not, Rotherham's still a dump. ;)

:ball: PP

aido_b

11/05/2006, 4:31 PM

I wonder, with Glenn Hoddle continuing in charge, whether you'll soon enough get that non-eague club to support! :p

:ball: PP

Ha ha dont I know it! Hopefully he takes the hint and fecks off soon!

Mad Moose

11/05/2006, 6:01 PM

Was in Nottingham last weekend, quite a nice place, not the dump i was expecting... didnt see anything like the myth that its apparantly that the city has the ratio of two girls for every one fella. But udging by soem of the horrors on offer, i can see why! :eek:

Nice alrite.Lovely city centre.They have developed it well. On the ratio of fella's to girls neither did I see this ratio. In fact I had forgotten it.Big university population and I couldn't understand the number of houses for sale, every second house seemed to be for sale. The three grounds are together almost with the Cricket Ground Trent Bridge (I think) just across the road from the ever fantastic (to me anyhow) City Ground, Home of Nottingham Forest. I read recently its the 'Burgulary Capital of Britain'. A nice title to have. Possibly linked to the fact that most houses are for sale. The residents tired of been burguled are upping and leaving.

Brendan

Mad Moose

11/05/2006, 6:09 PM

Ha ha dont I know it! Hopefully he takes the hint and fecks off soon!

Forest approached him.Were mad keen to get him too.No not Forest Green. Nottingham Forest, I couldnt undestand it at all. Thankfully he refused and Forest were left in the capable hands of two gentlemen Frank Barlow and Ian 'Charlie' McParland. On Hoddle 'If he were an Ice-Cream he'd lick himself'. Just read that this evening sitting on the beach at Portnoo (after work) in West Donegal. For those of you who cant enjoy this fantastic weather by the sea thats just to rub it in ;) . Hoddle loved himself and Forest thankfully never got him. There's only so far you can slide until you find your feet again.

Brendan

Paddyfield

11/05/2006, 9:45 PM

Here's some cheap advice.....avoid Hull. It's a kip.
Picture Killybegs with double-decker busses and a strong smell of haddock.

Not so nice, eh?

PS Everyone wears tracksuits.

dcfcsteve

12/05/2006, 1:11 AM

Banged to rights on the 'county' front.:o Though Rotherham is no more a city than Limavady & is a bit of a dump. & ' Donny' not too hot either.

Rotherham is about the size of central Belfast - way bigger than Derry even, and massively bigger than Limavady !!

Limavady is just a spit on the map. If it was nearer to Derry it'd be a small suburb of the city. Though eventually it will be.... :D

Gather round

14/05/2006, 8:40 AM

Rotherham is much smaller than Belfast. It's really a satellite town to the city of Sheffield nowadays.

dcfcsteve

14/05/2006, 10:20 PM

Rotherham is much smaller than Belfast. It's really a satellite town to the city of Sheffield nowadays.

2001 Census Results :

Rotherham : 248,175
Belfast Urban area : 276,459

I rest my case.....

paul_oshea

15/05/2006, 11:31 AM

i think he means in terms of size not population.

dcfcsteve

15/05/2006, 12:07 PM

i think he means in terms of size not population.

?????

I'll wager no-one here has a clue of the gross size of either town !

If it was size, then what does the assertion that it is just a sattelite town of Sheffield have to do with it ?

When I posted originally, I was talking in terms of population, so a response regarding size would be irrelevant anyway. :D

Gather round

15/05/2006, 7:57 PM

dcfcsteve

16/05/2006, 12:46 AM

No, I meant that Rotherham's central business/ downtown area was obviously, for anyone's who's visited, much less significant than Belfast's.

The figure Steve quotes excludes Castlereagh, whose local govt. area boundaries extend almost to Belfast city centre. Other nearby towns- Glengormley, Lisburn, Holywood- are part of the continuous Belfast area. Slightly further afield, Carrick, Bangor and Newtownards are obviously satellite towns to Belfast.

Which is why - if you look at my original note on this - I compared Rotherham to central Belfast...... :rolleyes:

The outlying districts of Rotherham MBC look to Sheffield. Rotherham is basically a bigger equivalent of Lisburn. Which has a bigger population than Derry according to the 2001 census, I believe.

No. 2001 figure gave Derry population as 83,699 and Lisburn as 71,465.

If we include the Derry suburbs the disparity would be greater. A lot of Lisburn's 'suburbs' would actually be considered part of Belfast - so if taking a wider definiton of both cities, Derry's population would rise more when considering outlying areas.

Though Rotherham is truly a kip.

You know it has to be Nyaw-kassil Dassa.........! :D

Gather round

16/05/2006, 12:35 PM

Steve. NISRA (Govt. quango) quotes the following mid-year population estimates for 2004,

Derry 106,889
Lisburn 110,247

These are for the entire district council areas, but I referred them earlier and quote directly now to show that such figures are misleading. Clearly Derry is more significant as a travel-to-work-and-shop destination, say, than Lisburn. Sprucefield is in Lisburn because it's near Belfast, not because Lisburn is the main market.

You suggested Rotherham was comparable to Belfast city centre. I disagree- the towns may have looked superficially alike in facilities and scale 20 years ago, but they don't now. Belfast's 'centre' has expanded with new shopping and recreational areas reflecting its medium sized city status; Rotherham's hasn't because locals and visitors are happy to shop and eat out in Sheffield, or at Meadowhall (the Sprucefield equivalent).

Speranza

16/05/2006, 1:22 PM

Does counter-urbanisation not make Lisburn to Belfast what Tallaght is to Dublin, Drumahoe to Derry e.t.c.

Lisburn is just an over-spill of sensible Belfast people who want to escape from the kip. :p

Gather round

16/05/2006, 5:50 PM

Not really.

Lisburn was a medium-sized town which has grown to meet the nearby city.

Tallaght was (I think) a one-street village in the 1960s before becoming a (badly?) planned, overlarge new town.

Drumahoe was a village which is now an outlying suburb.

Ye know?

dcfcsteve

17/05/2006, 12:43 AM

You suggested Rotherham was comparable to Belfast city centre. I disagree- the towns may have looked superficially alike in facilities and scale 20 years ago, but they don't now. Belfast's 'centre' has expanded with new shopping and recreational areas reflecting its medium sized city status; Rotherham's hasn't because locals and visitors are happy to shop and eat out in Sheffield, or at Meadowhall (the Sprucefield equivalent).

I was only suggesting that the population of Rotherham (i.e. it's size) was the same as Central Belfast, which it is.

I take your other points re Derry, Lisburn and Rotherham though.

Glad to see Derry's population finally listed someowhere as over the 100,000 mark ! There's been a feeling in the city for years that the census returns were just not truly reflective of the situation on the ground - as reflected in births, deaths, school figures etc. The census must take a peculiarly narrow definiton of 'Derry City'.

Plastic Paddy

17/05/2006, 3:01 PM

The census must take a peculiarly narrow definiton of 'Derry City'.

Co-terminous with the boundaries of Derry City Council. ISTR that the Boundary Commission for NI revised the local government boundaries in the mid-1990s and that Drumahoe was transferred in its entirety into the DCC area - I think it was in Limavady district before that.

Maybe that explains the otherwise statistically significant increase in population. Does this suggestion ring any (local) bells?

:ball: PP

Thunderblaster

17/05/2006, 11:14 PM

Forget about Belfast, Lisburn, Derry and Drumahoe or Rotherham-the place to be, the town is Liverpool. Class place!!:D :) ;)

dcfcsteve

17/05/2006, 11:51 PM

Co-terminous with the boundaries of Derry City Council. ISTR that the Boundary Commission for NI revised the local government boundaries in the mid-1990s and that Drumahoe was transferred in its entirety into the DCC area - I think it was in Limavady district before that.

Maybe that explains the otherwise statistically significant increase in population. Does this suggestion ring any (local) bells?

:ball: PP

Not really. That would explain any difference between 1991 and 2001 - but notbetween2001 and the 2004 estimate.The 2004 population estimate for the DCC Council area is 106,889. The 2001 census figure for the same area was 90,663. The estimate therefore suggests a whopping 18% increase in the population of the city in only 3 years ! Granted it is only an estimate - but as government funding etc flows on the basis of these estimates, they aren't put together haphazardly.

Now - if there was an economic boom in Derry, then such an increase would be plausible. But the city hasn't had a population-driving boom since the shirt factories in the 1800's. Also - anecdotally, a not insubstantial number of Derry people have moved just over the border to villages and towns in Donegal that are effectively suburbs of the City - without which the 18% estimated increase would be even higher !

What I suspect ahs happened is what there has been a general feeling of in the city for some time - that the census figures ahve been underestimating our population. there is suspicion that the return rate of census forms in Derry is relatively low, as a hangovewr back to the 1980's when Sinn Fein and the IRA were actively and violently opposed to the census, and a census collector was shot dead in the city. If there was a lower than average return rate from households within the city, then the Stats Office should be aware of this. Maybe there was, and hence the large jump in the estimate.

There was analysis done in the Journal (local paper) a few years back of the difference between the 1991 and 2001 census returns. The writer compared the stated increases in population in that decade in the census with the details of all births, deaths, school numbers etc across the same period and found a large discrepancy. Granted, a number of kids born in the hospital, attending local schools etc will not reside in the DCC area, but there was a larger discrepancy from these than you would expect, even after considerign this. The arguement he presented was quite convincing. Maybe the powers thatbe have finally accepted that the population of Derry has been under-sdtated for some time now - hence the 18% increase in only 3 years at a time of no significant economic expansion, and a move of many to areas out-with the city.