View Full Version : Are Cork Doing a Shels?
David
29/04/2006, 10:24 PM
I watched most of Friday night's game on Setanta and was very surprised to see Cork getting beat by St Pats. Did make me wonder though. When we beat Shels in the finakl of the Setanta last year they seemed to fall apart and it took them a very long time to recover. Could the defeat by Drogheda have the same effect on Cork?
BohsFans
29/04/2006, 11:19 PM
and when are they gonna start work on the shed (mfa)?
Anto McC
29/04/2006, 11:56 PM
I watched most of Friday night's game on Setanta and was very surprised to see Cork getting beat by St Pats. Did make me wonder though. When we beat Shels in the finakl of the Setanta last year they seemed to fall apart and it took them a very long time to recover. Could the defeat by Drogheda have the same effect on Cork?
I very much doubt it,id say its only a momentary blip in the season but i still dont think they are going to win it again this year!
For the record,i certainly dont expect Shels too either!
Interesting point David... personally I think they did suffer from the Drogheda game, which was no surprise: it was their second final defeat to Drogheda and the superiority they enjoyed in games against the Drogs between those two finals suddenly amounted to nought. Furthermore, Cork were easily the better team in the final.
All the same, I think it's a blip and no more than proof of the fact that Cork lack the cover the likes of Shels and Drogheda have.
Raheny Red
30/04/2006, 12:37 AM
Are Cork Doing a Shels?
Nope, they must do two-in-a-row first ;) then fail miserbly to get the third :o :p
Dr.Nightdub
30/04/2006, 8:51 AM
Johnny, if they continue to lack depth in their squad, Friday night will be far from a blip for Cork.
As for David's original question, I think the result was a combination of Cork having gone backwards since last year and us having made a big jump forwards.
Johnny, if they continue to lack depth in their squad, Friday night will be far from a blip for Cork.
As for David's original question, I think the result was a combination of Cork having gone backwards since last year and us having made a big jump forwards.
I was impressed by St Pats. First I have seen them and they played some good football and could well have scored more.
David
30/04/2006, 10:03 AM
I very much doubt it,id say its only a momentary blip in the season but i still dont think they are going to win it again this year!
For the record,i certainly dont expect Shels too either!
Who do you think then? I have seen Derry, Shels and Drogheda live and on TV as well as Cork on tv afew times and I think it is very tough to call. Some of Derry's build up play is brilliant but they do seem to lack the killer touch in front of goal, although that could well come in time as there can be no doubting the quality of their forwards. Shels have excellent players all over the pitch and if Crowe and Byrne can combine and start banging in the goals they could well be there or thereabouts. Drogheda against us in the first half were excellent. Fitzpatrick will run all day and I think Gavin at the back is superb. Their defence looks very good indeed but, like Derry, they seem to have a problem with goals. With their defence though, as has been shown quite a bit this season, one goal will usually be enough to get them maximum points. They could be hard to stop. Cork, as I have said, need to recover from the Setanta. If they can do thaty they are a class act. O'Callaghan and Fenn must be two of the best midfielders around. I was surprised to see Behan (at least I think that is his name) on the bench the other night as I think he is a cracking player. The keeper usually impresses me but I thought he was poor against St Pats. It all adds up to a very interesting season down there.
daveh
30/04/2006, 11:43 AM
Lads I think if any team were missing Georgie and Flynny they would find it hard,and we certainly dont have the strength in depth at the moment to cope all that well without them.
In saying that though the under 21's on the bench are very talented players and given time I think they will show their quality,maybe not this year but in the long run things are looking good.The only problem is maybe the chairman is looking a bit too long-term for most people
CollegeTillIDie
30/04/2006, 11:58 AM
Loosening the purse strings is not the main issue for Cork City .
They lost two quality players and did not replace them even with free transfers, the squad is two less and the loss is being felt at the moment.
thejollyrodger
30/04/2006, 12:02 PM
Johnny, if they continue to lack depth in their squad, Friday night will be far from a blip for Cork.
Maybe thats why Rico is cryin about the B internationals. Cork are under savage pressure this season and are likely to make a mess of the champions league qualifiers, the Eircom League and absolutely every other competition they are invovled in.
A face
30/04/2006, 12:05 PM
The only problem is maybe the chairman is looking a bit too long-term for most people
Maybe he has been looking at chairmen that went before him and where they are now. There is nothing wrong with the chairmans vision, hes doing a great job. Lets face it, every single club in the country could, for example not pay the tax man and spend all over the place and it will work for a few years but long term that is not good sense.
A face
30/04/2006, 12:10 PM
Maybe thats why Rico is cryin about the B internationals. Cork are under savage pressure this season and are likely to make a mess of the champions league qualifiers, the Eircom League and absolutely every other competition they are invovled in.
City players said it themselves last night .... B Internationals, whats games are involved ?? None, as of yet ..... How many games are there that players would really want to play in ?? None .... very few countries have B teams and they could be far bigger populations than Ireland, where we have circa four million ? It doesn't add up. And it looks even worse when U21 team would have only 3 domestic players on it, given that coutries like Norway have a policy that you can get onto U21 unless you are based domestically.
To be fair, they were missing Behan, O'Flynn, O'Callaghan. They'd start on pretty much any EL team. The team they had out wasn't too bad, but the likes of Softic needs time. Plenty of ability.
I fancied Pat's to win the game Doc - I saw you against Bohs and was impressed with the organisation. Maguire is probably the most under-rated player in the league.
Early days yet no reason to panic. I watched the Pats game recorded after i knew the result & thought again we dominated the game without playing well. Softic can be a new star just a pity hes another central midfielder.
The squad isn't the biggest & already played 13 games in 2 months.
IF O'Flynn stayed fit for the full season he would score 20 goals & we would win the league. Big IF alright as little sign he'll be fit.
League looks like will be 4 horse race so that will probably help us as we do better in the big games. Clearly we not win the league if don't add 1-2 quality players in transfer window.
Record so far against the top 4:
City 2 Drogs 0
Drogs 0 City 2
City 2 Shels 0
Drogs 1 City 0
The next months will tell a lot.
Shels v Drogs
City v Shels
Derry V City
Derry v Shels
Strictly speaking the Setanta final was a 0-0 draw, meaning that Drogheda haven't beaten or scored against Cork in four competitive games. They've yet to play Shels or Derry in the league. Plenty to prove in my book. Cork do not.
Strictly speaking the Setanta final was a 0-0 draw, meaning that Drogheda haven't beaten or scored against Cork in four competitive games. They've yet to play Shels or Derry in the league.
Derry v Drogs was postponded as was Shels v Derry in the first series of games.
I think City have struggled to score goals which means defenders trying to create from the back. defence has been dodgy but conceded feck all goals.
Early days yet no reason to panic. I watched the Pats game recorded after i knew the result & thought again we dominated the game without playing well. Softic can be a new star just a pity hes another central midfielder.
The squad isn't the biggest & already played 13 games in 2 months.
IF O'Flynn stayed fit for the full season he would score 20 goals & we would win the league. Big IF alright as little sign he'll be fit.
League looks like will be 4 horse race so that will probably help us as we do better in the big games. Clearly we not win the league if don't add 1-2 quality players in transfer window.
Record so far against the top 4:
City 2 Drogs 0
Drogs 0 City 2
City 2 Shels 0
Drogs 1 City 0
The next months will tell a lot.
Shels v Drogs
City v Shels
Derry V City
Derry v Shels
You are talking about your record against drogs in the setanta.You left out the draw in the leauge.I reckon people are underestimating st pats.They are gonna surprise people this season..
Speranza
30/04/2006, 2:38 PM
I feel the title is there for us this year. That is not to say we will be champions come November but we have a great oppurtunity.
David pointed out the drought our forwards are going through but we have a midfield capable of scoring bucket-loads. Our forwards aren't playing bad rather they are going through a spell of terrible bad luck e.g Linfield - hit the bar, Glens - hit the post, missed peno. Our last minute goal against Shels in the Setanta shows how our play often leads to midfielders getting the goals.
I reckon people are underestimating st pats.They are gonna surprise people this season..
Interesting to see how little credit Pats are getting here, after a fully deserved win the other night(Jésus, I'm starting to sound like Paul Doolin:eek: ) It may have escaped Petes notice, but we are in fact in the top four at the moment. Not that I'm saying we'll neccessarily stay there, we've a bit to go yet to do that I feel. It's not totally out of the question though. One thing is for sure, we've improved vastly on last year. The difference is mainly down to three players I feel, Keegan and Molloy up front, who given us someone to hold the ball up and that extra bit of sharpness around the box. Mulcahy in midfield has given us the strength we've lacked in midfield for the last couple of seasons. As for Pete saying Cork dominated the game on Friday, not from where I was sitting. Pats could have had a couple more goals, only a super save from Devine denied Michael Foley. Cork on the other hand had one penalty claim(Which we got away with, I'll grant ye:p ) and a shot which scraped by the post late on. Oh, BTW, let me just congratulate Dan Murray on his first goal for Pats. What a screamer :D
Cork clearly didn't dominate Pat's. They might have edged possession but Pat's (excellent) defence always looked comfortable, the handball call and the off-the-bar effort apart.
dancinpants
30/04/2006, 6:50 PM
Pats fans shouldn't worry about not getting credit. Even when the treble was still a possibility for us everyone was still overlooking us.
Also, in one of Derrys county newspapers a few weeks back Kenny, mentioned Drogs, Pats and Shels as the teams to beat this season (no mention of Cork ;) ). So SPA haven't escaped everyones attention!!
Maybe he has been looking at chairmen that went before him and where they are now. There is nothing wrong with the chairmans vision, hes doing a great job. Lets face it, every single club in the country could, for example not pay the tax man and spend all over the place and it will work for a few years but long term that is not good sense.
Couldnt agree more, securing a bright future for any club must come before short term gains which will jeaprodise the clubs long term viability.
I grew up when there was no eL team in Cork and the stated goal of the current Chairman is to ensure a club exists long term.
Pats were very good on friday & shown by results this year that will not be struggling in the bottom half. It will be very difficult to break into the top 4 come the end of the season.
A good or bad european run can boost or kill squad confidence so July/August will be crutial time of the league.
Risteard
01/05/2006, 4:41 PM
Lots of sense being talked here for once but i don't think we're throwing a Shels.
First of all, we're not in the position of domination that Shels were in.
The title was well deserved, but there was only a two-point gap to Derry so it hardly takes a remarkable collapse to slip down the table.
Having said that, we're in a much better position now than last year.
Greg O'Halloran is crap. Granted Kearney is a big loss but i can see the two Lordans (hoping for a weekend signing), Admir Softic definately and maybe Vinny Sullivan improving the side this year.
This time last season we were much further off the pace.
A quick goalscorer (ie ensure a Flynny like striker playing) who can head the ball and i think it'd be hard for anyone to live with us.
P.s. I don't see how we can make a mess of every tournament we enter this year if we only just lost in extra-time of the Setanta Cup Final.
Onward and upward.
P.s. I don't see how we can make a mess of every tournament we enter this year if we only just lost in extra-time of the Setanta Cup Final.
For anyone willing to watch the Setanta Cup game with no agenda its clear to see how much superior City were to Drogheda. I'm not trying to goat Drogs but the goal was probably the first Drogs put together 3 passes in the game. If you replayed that game into a computer simulator 10 more times City would win every time.
I don't see any chance of record league points total this year with a few different teams challenging. I hope Drogs & Derry get at least 4 games in Europe as its a big test to come back & play UCD on a Sunday coming back from Eastern Europe.
A face
01/05/2006, 4:58 PM
For anyone willing to watch the Setanta Cup game with no agenda its clear to see how much superior City were to Drogheda. I'm not trying to goat Drogs but the goal was probably the first Drogs put together 3 passes in the game. If you replayed that game into a computer simulator 10 more times City would win every time.
There isn't any question that though i think, lots of people have commented on the game and agreed tht City were the better side. And for City to be in final of the Setanta Cup given the other teams that were in the competition speaks volumes, hardly a side ready to throw the towel in.
Have to agree with Risteard though, its hardly like team is fit to scrap either, we are caught on one position and need to strengten in two others but its hardly a team coming apart at the seems. The players themselves on Saturday said as much. There probably are alot of alarmists out there but its nowhere near as bad as they'd have you believe.
Also have to agree, the debate is alot more reasoned now.
SeanDrog
02/05/2006, 12:30 PM
Cork were very good in the final but I wouldn't say they were the better team. Corks strategy was all out attack - since they failed to score means they failed. Drogheda clearly were the more cautious side perferring to defend and hit on the break, they didn't concede hence they were successful and where the team to accomplish their goals. To judge who is the better team is to judge who were successful in their strategies not who ran about the pitch more.
The Drogs predicted Corks slide due to a small squad at the start of the season and we received plenty of cork abuse for it but to date our prediction has been spot on. Tonight will be another test for them (as Sligo are a tough team IMO) and if they don't get all 3 points they will slip even further behind. No doubting Cork have a good (very good) first eleven but it is a squad of players that win a league and Cork don't have a good enough squad in terms of depht.
IMO the league will be decided between Shels / Derry and Drogs. Regarding Drogs I think we still need to improve a lot more to keep Shels and Derry at bay. Our performances have yielded results but some performances have been below par and our front men need to start gelling (hopefully when barrett comes back) if we are to indeed be title contenders.
Schumi
02/05/2006, 1:03 PM
I feel the title is there for us this year. That is not to say we will be champions come November but we have a great oppurtunity.
I'd agree. Derry have been the best side we've played this year IMO.
paudie
02/05/2006, 1:09 PM
I always think you should wait till the end of the first series of games before coming to definite conclusions about how teams are playing.
city have 3 home games in a row (I think). If we win them all the St Pats loss will be forgotten. If we don't win any then it will have been the beginning of the end.
It goes without saying that we need to start scoring goals very soon.
The length of Drogs and Derry's Euro runs will also have an effect as most of those players haven't been in Euro competition for a few years
A face
02/05/2006, 1:31 PM
Icity have 3 home games in a row (I think). If we win them all the St Pats loss will be forgotten. If we don't win any then it will have been the beginning of the end.
We were in a worse situation this time last year and won the league with a record amount of points .... its far too early to even think of mentioning end, its unbelieveable actually to even say it.
Johnny, if they continue to lack depth in their squad, Friday night will be far from a blip for Cork.
As for David's original question, I think the result was a combination of Cork having gone backwards since last year and us having made a big jump forwards.
I'd have to agree here, most teams have improved *apart from us by the looks of thinngs !), especially St. Pats comparred to last season. They have a seriously experienced front 2 that will give most teams problems. Cork on the other hand lost a few very good players and have not replaced them, over the last few weeks they have dropped points away to UCD, Bray and Pats, all games you would have expected the league champions to win quite easily.
But in saying that they will be there or there abouts towards the end of the season, but i can't see them making any impact on Europe this year (hopefully i'm totally wrong there !)
Peadar
02/05/2006, 1:53 PM
Cork on the other hand lost a few very good players and have not replaced them...
Lets keep things in perspective here. We lost one first team player from our title winning side and the performances of Liam Kearney so far this season have proved what many of us have believed for while, he's overrated!
Admir Softic is forcing his way into the team and will be a real star for us. I believe he can do a job on the left when Georgie is fit. Brian McCarthy has shown a lot of potential and I believe we'll see that as the season progresses. We've had a lot of games recently and they have taken their toll on the moral and motivation of the players. The fact that it took Drogheda 382 minutes to score a single goal against us so far this season proves that we've got what it takes in every department, except up front when O'Flynn is injured.
A face
02/05/2006, 1:56 PM
(hopefully i'm totally wrong there !)
I hope so too Roo, i hope so too !! :p :D
Risteard
02/05/2006, 2:01 PM
they have dropped points away to UCD, Bray and Pats, all games you would have expected the league champions to win quite easily.
Not really.
We'd have budgeted on winning one of them but i don't think it'd be fair to expect 9 points 'quite easily'.
the home form is good.
I watched the Pats game recorded after i knew the result & thought again we dominated the game without playing well.
:rolleyes:
Anyway. I haven't seen a team better than us this season (and we've played Shels, cork and Drogs) We deserved 7 points out of those and got 4. Thin line and all that crap...
Too many cork players looked disinterested on Friday, If I was a Cork fan *shudder* I'd be mightily pished at them for their lack of heart/effort
SeanDrog
02/05/2006, 2:12 PM
The fact that it took Drogheda 382 minutes to score a single goal against us so far this season proves that we've got what it takes in every department, except up front when O'Flynn is injured.
and you are fifth in the table ??
If you have your first team (11 players) fit and unsuspended then no doubt one of the best teams in teh country - but the league needs a large squad and on the face of it to date Cork do struggle in this dept. This isn't a pop at Cork rather a commentary on perceived realities.
Peadar
02/05/2006, 3:07 PM
and you are fifth in the table ??
Poor drog, new to the eircom League and confusing it with the English Premier League. You might want to sit down because this may come as a shock to you but our league finishes in November. Being top in May doesn't mean you've won it. :rolleyes:
Dodge is right. They have matched the "big" teams they've played this season and were, in my opinion, robbed against Shels and Drogs.
He is also correct when he says that too many of our players were disinterested on Friday.
I can't agree with Pete about us dominating. We may have edged it slightly until the first goal but Pats were fully deserving of their victory for their spirited performance.
Any team that has won the league recently will know that it's a long campaign and it's never decided in the first half of the season.
SeanDrog
02/05/2006, 3:09 PM
fair enough if you want to ignore the rest of what was an attempt at an adults conversation then fine - should have known better than to try and communicate with you.
just making the point that you squad is light , acknowledged the strength of your first 11.
had my fill of smart Cork lads over the last few weeks. Cheerio
Peadar
02/05/2006, 3:26 PM
just making the point that you squad is light , acknowledged the strength of your first 11.
You've ignored my point that we've lost no one of note since we won the League last season.
If anything we've strengthened our squad. We've got players good enough to win the League and they now know what it takes.
paudie
02/05/2006, 3:31 PM
We were in a worse situation this time last year and won the league with a record amount of points .... its far too early to even think of mentioning end, its unbelieveable actually to even say it.
I was actually exaggerating slightly for effect:eek: I would think it might be better for our league chances to win all three games rather than none.
SeanDrog
02/05/2006, 3:32 PM
You've ignored my point that we've lost no one of note since we won the League last season.
If anything we've strengthened our squad. We've got players good enough to win the League and they now know what it takes.
Regarding your point - I have no doubt that your first eleven have what it takes but how often will you have the luxury of your first 11. The Setanta was a different competition with different requirements etc. The league is a long haul and the fact that when George was injured your team has failed to deliver - again not a pop but rather a statement of fact. Cork have great players like George and O Donovan (who destroyed Webb in the final) but its the lack of replacements (or perceived lack of replacements - maybe us outsiders are wrong) that is really going to make (IMO of course) Cork find it tough to retain the title.
Not really.
We'd have budgeted on winning one of them but i don't think it'd be fair to expect 9 points 'quite easily'.
the home form is good.
Ah come off it FFS ! "budgeted on winning one of them" ? thats real champions talk, some how i really don't think Rico or the Cork players would budget to win one match against UCD, Bray and Pats. Cork would have expected at least 7 points from these 3 games yet they have only 2. Yeah your home form is excellent, no doubting that what so ever but it's away from that will count at the end of the season. A team like Cork will win most home games but droping away points on a regular basis will cost dearly at the end of the season.
Someone mentioned Softic earlier in the post, i'd have to agree, he looks a very useful player, defo in the same mold as O'Callaghan
Peadar
02/05/2006, 3:37 PM
(or perceived lack of replacements - maybe us outsiders are wrong)
No one knows what the likes of McCarthy, Softic, Lally, Lordan, Nolan, Sullivan etc. can produce. They may not be household names but they've all impressed the staff at Cork City FC.
Drogs "rested" some players against us in the Setanta Sports Cup and we tore you apart all over the field. I wouldn't be too excited about the quality of your squad if I was you.
SeanDrog
02/05/2006, 3:43 PM
granted they are not first team names but to date when some 1st teams have been missing and some of these lads have stepped up, you have struggled - maybe as the season goes no they will come more into it and prove us all wrong.
regarding us resting players - wouldn't say tore us apart but you were better as would be expected as oever 50% of the team were squad players and it was their first time playing together against the elague champions - what result did you expect.
In our recent matches we have had at least 3 first teamers out and we have had good squad players to bring in and they have delivered.
As stated all we have to analysis are the games to date and IMO corks squad players are a weak point but again maybe they will grow into it as the season progresses.
And if you read a few posts back i clearly stated that drogs are no means a given to win this league as our squad has its failings to date as well.
Peadar
02/05/2006, 3:47 PM
And if you read a few posts back i clearly stated that drogs are no means a given to win this league as our squad has its failings to date as well.
We can talk about this until the rustled sheep come home but it will make little difference at this stage. When I saw the title of this thread I didn't want to post but felt that Bray fans needed putting straight on how different our squad is to last seasons squad.
Either way, I'm not concerned about our poor start. There's a long way to go yet and we all know that our players are capable of much better.
Speranza
02/05/2006, 4:05 PM
No one knows what the likes of McCarthy, Softic, Lally, Lordan, Nolan, Sullivan etc. can produce. They may not be household names but they've all impressed the staff at Cork City FC
No one knows nor cares in the same way our first team players are never talked about in the media or discussions like this. One of the Sunday rags had a column a few weeks ago noting how the public overlook players in our team who are some of the best in the Eircom League. In this case it was Ciarán Martyn but there are numerous other examples - Barry Molloy for one is IMO along with Joe Gamble the best centre midfielder in the LoI.
A face
02/05/2006, 4:27 PM
No one knows nor cares in the same way our first team players are never talked about in the media or discussions like this.
I'd love it if City players weren't talked about. Keep the heads down and do the work. That is the ideal situation.
Peadar
02/05/2006, 4:31 PM
No one knows nor cares in the same way our first team players are never talked about in the media or discussions like this.
Listen Sparenza mate, I didn't start this thread and would gladly not get involved in such a futile "debate", but others seem obesessed with us. I expect that's just because we're Champions and people are willing us to fail. By all means talk about your players if you're feeling left out. I also expect if you won something significant people would be talking about you too.
Speranza
02/05/2006, 4:58 PM
By all means talk about your players if you're feeling left out. I also expect if you won something significant people would be talking about you too.
Not feeling left out at all.....Face said "That is the ideal situation." and he is right. Our players don't get credit (i.e Ken Oman hasn't put in a bad preformance so far but never gets mentioned, brilliant signing) BUT I don't care as we there is no pressure on us. The spotlight will always be on players like Georgie rather than Ciaran Martyn for obvious reasons and I'm sure Ciaran loves being able to play his football without constant attention.
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