View Full Version : Is Full-Time Paying Off?
A face
16/04/2006, 2:10 PM
Is Full-Time Paying Off?
It is often said that good business is all about getting the timing right. The brave decision by both Cork City and Drogheda United to follow Shelbourne down the road of full time football seems to be paying off. As both sets of players look forward to their fourth meeting this season in next week's mouth watering Setanta Sports Cup final, their respective directors will be welcoming another big pay day as the winners will receive a whopping €150,000 and the losing finalist will take home €80,000.
Both clubs also command large attendances at their home games and have steadily increased their supporter base over the past few seasons which has allowed them develop a steady income stream, which in turn not only increases their bank balance but improves their borrowing power.
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Full time might be paying off for Cork and Drogheda at the moment, but what about Shelbourne or Bohs? The league just isn't generating the money to support fulltime football beyond a few clubs at the moment. Also, the clubs are still very vulnerable to a period of underperformance wreaking financial havoc. To support professional football the league has to be improved from top to bottom steadily over a period of years, but I fear we will instead cast about looking for the silver bullet and keep going nowhere quickly.
sligoman
16/04/2006, 3:12 PM
Full time football has us fifth at the moment so I'm happy:).
Speranza
16/04/2006, 3:45 PM
Oh no, just what will Uncle Fester Jeffries say about City not being classed as full-time, every excuse he has used will be out the window. Hope the Bluemen who post here see this article.
Simple answer for me is that we have played Cork, Drog and Shels this season, all full-time sides. There has been between next to nothing between the 3 sides on all matches. The game against Shels was even, Drogs slightly shaded it against us and we were better than Cork. We train part-time and pay a fraction of what they do. Personally i don't feel that there is a big difference between the clubs for the wage difference and the money being handed over.
A face
16/04/2006, 4:36 PM
Simple answer for me is that we have played Cork, Drog and Shels this season, all full-time sides. There has been between next to nothing between the 3 sides on all matches. The game against Shels was even, Drogs slightly shaded it against us and we were better than Cork. We train part-time and pay a fraction of what they do. Personally i don't feel that there is a big difference between the clubs for the wage difference and the money being handed over.
Apart from the fact you are wrong about the Cork game, all three sides had to start their seasons earlier with the Setanta, Cork and Drogs are still in it aswell, we've practically playered double the games you have played ... that doesn't come into it does it ??
Anyway .... the crowds/conditions will never improve enough to allow clubs to go full time, the clubs have to move first .... it'll never be handed to the league so its up to clubs to move forward. Full time is an important part that will allow clubs to do that and Euro footie this years should be a big difference too with the Irish clubs in it.
chippie0001
16/04/2006, 5:27 PM
Apart from the fact you are wrong about the Cork game, all three sides had to start their seasons earlier with the Setanta, Cork and Drogs are still in it aswell, we've practically playered double the games you have played ... that doesn't come into it does it ??
Surely you starting your season earlier is better, your players should be more match fit the the likes of Bray.Yes you have played more games, but early on in the season that should suit you and being full time pro that should be even better again.
pineapple stu
16/04/2006, 5:29 PM
Apart from the fact you are wrong about the Cork game
Any newspaper report I've read has said Bray were the better side.
Superhoops
16/04/2006, 5:39 PM
Any newspaper report I've read has said Bray were the better side.
Including this from Cork's own beloved Examiner: Mark McNulty made two stunning late stops to earn champions Cork a draw they scarcely deserved at the Carlisle Grounds as they slipped four points behind leaders Drogheda.
But as usual, typical Cork arrogance aptly demonstrated by the comment made by A Face.
Simple answer for me is that we have played Cork, Drog and Shels this season, all full-time sides. There has been between next to nothing between the 3 sides on all matches. The game against Shels was even, Drogs slightly shaded it against us and we were better than Cork. We train part-time and pay a fraction of what they do. Personally i don't feel that there is a big difference between the clubs for the wage difference and the money being handed over.
I think its later on in the season that the full times team will pull ahead. Its a long season and granted ye have had a good start and played well but do you think you will be in the top 4 come November??
Just my opinion anyway
A face
16/04/2006, 6:47 PM
But as usual, typical Cork arrogance aptly demonstrated by the comment made by A Face.
Oh come on, that was to the bone ..... i am hurting on the inside here, have you no mercy !! :p
Look, we gave you a point now enough already. ;)
Superhoops
16/04/2006, 8:13 PM
Oh come on, that was to the bone ..... i am hurting on the inside here, have you no mercy !! :p
Look, we gave you a point now enough already. ;)
Most fair minded fans would concede Cork nicked a point, but not A Face. 'Cork gave Bray a point - I don't think so' and then you wonder why people think the Corkies are arrogant! It doesn't hurt to be gracious once in a while, you should try it!!!
Simple answer for me is that we have played Cork, Drog and Shels this season, all full-time sides. There has been between next to nothing between the 3 sides on all matches. The game against Shels was even, Drogs slightly shaded it against us and we were better than Cork. We train part-time and pay a fraction of what they do. Personally i don't feel that there is a big difference between the clubs for the wage difference and the money being handed over.
Fair point regarding your games against the full time clubs.But i would imagine it will be all of the full time clubs in the top 3 come the end of the leauge.Where do Derry fit in ?
are they fulltime or what ?
Fair point regarding your games against the full time clubs.But i would imagine it will be all of the full time clubs in the top 3 come the end of the leauge.Where do Derry fit in ?
are they fulltime or what ?
Some are, some arnt, but they all train at the same time, older players like Beckett isnt as no point in them turning full-time when they will be retiring soon!
Apart from the fact you are wrong about the Cork game, all three sides had to start their seasons earlier with the Setanta, Cork and Drogs are still in it aswell, we've practically playered double the games you have played ... that doesn't come into it does it ??
Anyway .... the crowds/conditions will never improve enough to allow clubs to go full time, the clubs have to move first .... it'll never be handed to the league so its up to clubs to move forward. Full time is an important part that will allow clubs to do that and Euro footie this years should be a big difference too with the Irish clubs in it.
You asked a question and i gave my opnion. Just because it is'nt the same as your's does'nt mean it's wrong.....
And NO i was'nt wrong about the Bray-Cork game.... On that preformance full-time football is a total waste of money for Cork.
Fair point regarding your games against the full time clubs.But i would imagine it will be all of the full time clubs in the top 3 come the end of the leauge.Where do Derry fit in ?
are they fulltime or what ?
Your probably right but i just dont think that the difference in wages that the likes of Drogheda, Cork and Shels are paying is really worth it..... Probably double or triple our wage bill each week and the gulf in class is'nt really there.
Ronnie
18/04/2006, 9:44 AM
You would have to wonder about the sustainability - take Drogheda, top of the league but struggling to get 2000 into league games. At that sort of average you would earn about 400k on gates in a year, but would still leave you having to bring well over 1m in other revenue streams.
ndrog
18/04/2006, 10:11 AM
fair point .but we have been playing 2 games a week since the beginning of the season.We have just opened a new drogheda utd shop in the centre of town and the sale of merchandise is well up.There is also a nice little pay day for reaching setanta cup final, and when we win it .Happy days .
Ronnie
18/04/2006, 10:31 AM
Yes, as things stand there is no doubt that income is going up - noone could deny that. The question is by how much? Is it going up fast enough to meet the increased running costs? Or put another way, where are Drogheda going make 30k a week, every week, for 16 weeks, when the season is over? Thats of course assuming the clubs running costs are 1.5m, and not 2 or 2.5.
Bearing in mind that Cork, apparently, have 4 earning over 100k, I would imaging that there wages is close to 2m and Drogheda are supposed to be the best payers.
micls
18/04/2006, 11:38 AM
Your probably right but i just dont think that the difference in wages that the likes of Drogheda, Cork and Shels are paying is really worth it..... Probably double or triple our wage bill each week and the gulf in class is'nt really there.
But the gulf in class is there. These teams are the ones who will be around the top come November (and Derry). Both Shels and Cork have had relatively big success in Europe which is bringing in good mony. On any day of course Bray can stick with one of these teams but over the season these teams will pull away.
Bearing in mind that Cork, apparently, have 4 earning over 100k,
That's bull btw
ndrog
18/04/2006, 12:28 PM
Yes, as things stand there is no doubt that income is going up - noone could deny that. The question is by how much? Is it going up fast enough to meet the increased running costs? Or put another way, where are Drogheda going make 30k a week, every week, for 16 weeks, when the season is over? Thats of course assuming the clubs running costs are 1.5m, and not 2 or 2.5.
Bearing in mind that Cork, apparently, have 4 earning over 100k, I would imaging that there wages is close to 2m and Drogheda are supposed to be the best payers.
I agree that some of the sums of money mentioned sound crazy in comparrison to the earning power of an eircom leauge club.But We have very experienced business people running the club.They by all accounts are putting plans in place for the club to become self sufficent , i.e the new stadium with retail units ,bars ,eateries etc ?
tiktok
18/04/2006, 12:37 PM
And NO i was'nt wrong about the Bray-Cork game.... On that preformance full-time football is a total waste of money for Cork.
That's a once off though Roo69, I wasn't at the game, but reports suggest you shaded it, but at the end of last season we had the Championship, runners up in the FAI Cup, European and Setanta Cup football guarenteed, and three of the four teams took three of the four European & Setanta places (Derry being the other team, and they're pretty much full-time IMO, though they tend to argue otherwise)
It's only a waste of money if you get ridiculous and lose track of what you pay out, CCFC run a pretty tight ship, which brings me to.....
Bearing in mind that Cork, apparently, have 4 earning over 100k, I would imaging that there wages is close to 2m and Drogheda are supposed to be the best payers.
Nonsense.
We have 1 player reputed to be on that level, our next highest earner is, at best on €75,000, the majority of the squad are nowhere near those numbers though. also, some of our lads are still part time.
Roo69
18/04/2006, 12:41 PM
But the gulf in class is there. These teams are the ones who will be around the top come November (and Derry). Both Shels and Cork have had relatively big success in Europe which is bringing in good mony. On any day of course Bray can stick with one of these teams but over the season these teams will pull away.
That's bull btw
The money thats being paid out by the likes of Shels, Cork and Drogs i personally do not think it's worth it, i don't think the gap is that big. It's not value for money, as i said you probably pay 2 or 3+ times more than we do every week. With the sort of money being thrown away the top clubs should be miles clear and beating teams like Bray and UCD very easily indeed.
Eh, i never said that, that was someone elses post......
micls
18/04/2006, 12:47 PM
The money thats being paid out by the likes of Shels, Cork and Drogs i personally do not think it's worth it, i don't think the gap is that big. It's not value for money, as i said you probably pay 2 or 3+ times more than we do every week. With the sort of money being thrown away the top clubs should be miles clear and beating teams like Bray and UCD very easily indeed.
Eh, i never said that, that was someone elses post......
Fair enough if that's your personal opinion but its not really about just beating these teams its winning stuff that brings in the money to counteract the money going out. It seems to be working for City anyway-last year turned a profit. Its European football that heightens the profile of the club and ups the gate receipts
(Derry being the other team, and they're pretty much full-time IMO, though they tend to argue otherwise)
Would you like to tell Gary Beckett:D
tiktok
18/04/2006, 2:02 PM
Would you like to tell Gary Beckett:D
It's his own fault that he gets up at 3am for work and that Stephen Kenny makes him train pretty much full-time. Stop using the postman as an example of how you're part-time, we've all stopped buying into it :D
Speranza
18/04/2006, 2:09 PM
Eamon Doherty, Ciaran Martyn, Pizza all have other jobs too.
lofty9
19/04/2006, 10:44 AM
....... Sean Hargan, left his full time job to become a full time footballer this season at 30 something! :confused: Derry are full time, they all train on a full time basis with the very odd exeception.
dcfcsteve
19/04/2006, 11:23 AM
....... Sean Hargan, left his full time job to become a full time footballer this season at 30 something! :confused: Derry are full time, they all train on a full time basis with the very odd exeception.
Training every day - like a full-time player - and being a full-time player, with no other job/source of income, are 2 very different things.
Derry are therefore clearly a mixture of full and part time players.
I don't think we can sustain a fulltime premier division. Without the extra reveneu & commercial exposue that Europe & the Setanta Cup brings the other clubs cannot afford 52 week wages.
I think we should probably aim for Scandanavian model for the bottom half of the Premier where players have part-time job as well as football job.
pineapple stu
19/04/2006, 12:39 PM
I wonder is a 44-game season practical at all? Extra games means extra revenue for clubs, whie you get around the problem of playing clubs three times in one season. The English leagues use a 46-game model most of the way down (Conference changing over next season), maybe 42 games in some of the really lower leagues (e.g. AFC Wimbledon in the Ryman Premier), though they make up for it with numerous various cups like the FA Trophy, FA Vase, Surrey Senior Cup, the Football League Trophy, etc. Though there'd probably be relatively little supporter interest by the time the fourth round came along with major issues all but decided.
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