Away Support

[Forever Dreamin]

As one of those that goes to all Ireland games and very few el games, one of the reasons is I consider Ireland as my team. Players play for the jersey and not for the money. THe premiership has lost it's soul and the el is not too far behind. The majority of players are only interested in who'll pay them the most and dont really give a s*** where the money comes from or care about the fans. I find it odd supporting a team and maybe one year later half the players playing against you! I'm not blaming them as it's their livelihood but dont blame me for not being a big fan. Im just as happy at an underage game and will continue to support the national team as my club side.

I do however respect the likes of the 400 club who have the interest of their team at heart, it's just the players I find hard to respect that change clubs like the weather.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Really really really ****ed off with that comment. So fcukin ignorant, hate that shít

That's not ignorant at all. I've been to see EL games and just don't like the product. Why should I go to watch the games if I don't like them? Like 'Forever Dreaming' Ireland is my team. I don't associate with any EL team. As pointed out by several posters on this thread, EL fans seem to think they know more than the rest of us. Get off your high horse is what I say. If some of us don't like EL football, there's nothing wrong with that.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Hear hear! The Leinster :rolleyes: Senior Lge rocks.;)
:o

Have never been at a Leinster Senior League game so you're not getting at me. However, funnily enough, it seems to have as much appeal as the EL. Come to think of it, I don't know which turns me off EL football the most: the poor football or the snobbery of its fans.

[pineapple stu]

Come to think of it, I don't know which turns me off EL football the most: the poor football or the snobbery of its fans.
Snobbery of the fans? A curious comment from one who openly states that eL football is below him.

[NY Hoop]

Who cares what teams people support who go to Ireland away games? The EL 'fascist constituency' are no better than the rest of us. My Irish side aren't even in the EL....so what?
Loads of people may not have a club side, but are just there for the Craic(Don't tell RMK!:eek: ) anyway. & good luck to them

"Fascist constituency"??:rolleyes:

So being Irish supporting an Irish club means you are a fascist? Jesus wept. We never said we were better than anyone.

If we were living in a country that wasnt obsessed about everything english we would have one of the best leagues in Europe.


KOH

[mypost]

Spain and Germany have huge populations compared to us and are supposed to be football obsessed countries.

Spanish fans are event junkies too. e.g, Barcelona took up their full allocation of a couple of thousand tickets for their fans to go to London to see them play Chelsea, yet the same fans never bothered to go the considerably shorter distance to Zaragoza, for a league game a few days later. :confused: They'll sell out their home games against Real Madrid fine, but against Mallorca, Cadiz, or Albacete, the place will be barely half-full. Crowds have been known to be as low as 40,000 at the Nou Camp for league games, with there being more atmosphere, on the moon. This from apparantly, the most-supported football club in the world. :rolleyes: The "rebel country's" fans are only obsessed with Real Madrid. :rolleyes:

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Snobbery of the fans? A curious comment from one who openly states that eL football is below him.

For someone who puts a UCD crest beside their username, you seem to have real difficulties understanding posts.
I never said EL football is below me. I said I don't like it and prefer international football. There is a difference. On the other hand, a number of EL fans think think they're above the rest of us because they go to EL games. That's pure nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

[pineapple stu]

You said that you wouldn't go to games even if it was free in. I can only assume from that that you consider eL games below you. It's a fairly natural conclusion.

Ask any (real) Manchester United or Arsenal fan what they think about Irish people spending a fortune travelling to England every weekend while ignoring their domestic league. They'll think we're idiots (though will happily take our money of course). And they're right.

The gas thing is the sheer amount of double standards prevalent in the media and among the public in general about the issue. I remember an Irish Times article not long ago criticising Manchester United for targetting China, using very aggressive marketing to ensure all the kids there became Manchester United fans and started demanding the new jersey, etc. The irony that the exact same thing happens here was quite beyond them.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

You said that you wouldn't go to games even if it was free in. I can only assume from that that you consider eL games below you. It's a fairly natural conclusion.

Ask any (real) Manchester United or Arsenal fan what they think about Irish people spending a fortune travelling to England every weekend while ignoring their domestic league. They'll think we're idiots (though will happily take our money of course). And they're right.


As I said already, I wouldn't go to EL games even if I got in free. It has nothing to do with the cost of attending EL games. I just don't like the quality of football. That doesn't mean I'm a Mun U or Arsenal fan however. My club team is Ireland. I do follow English football to check on the progress of the Irish players but that is as far as my loyalty extends. I echo your sentiments that Irish people should go to EL games before Premiership games. However, nobody should feel obliged to attend EL games as some people on this forum seem to suggest. If people want to confine their support to the national team, well they've every right to do so, and its not because we're "looking down" on the EL.

[pineapple stu]

I echo your sentiments that Irish people should go to EL games before Premiership games.
In fairness, I think most people (myself included) merely object to people following English clubs ahead of Irish clubs. No-one is forcing anyone to follow a particular team or league, but, as you note, they can't understand how they will follow a foreign league avidly and treat their domestic league with contempt. I missed you saying that you go only to Irish games. It's a curious stance, but I suppose doesn't cross the mark! eL fans' "superiority complex" is a natural reaction to the contempt shown them by Irish barstool fans of English teams.

[zinedineontour]

Having supported Sunderland and Shelbourne all my life I am now going to more sunderland games a season than shelbourne .. The standard of football in the eircom league is very poor and if people want to pay their hard earned cash to watch across the water much better football and atmospheres than why not .. Everyone has a right to choose and just cause some of us dont choose to watch el week in week out we should not be treated with contempt.

[stickyjoe]

Having supported Sunderland and Shelbourne all my life I am now going to more sunderland games a season than shelbourne .. The standard of football in the eircom league is very poor and if people want to pay their hard earned cash to watch across the water much better football and atmospheres than why not .

Sunderland, good football and an atmosphere in the stadium of light.....good one that :D

[drummerboy]

Some very interesting posts about the EL, standards and such. I'm involved with a club in the LSL who have 3 senior teams. These players, some who have played in the EL, all support Premiership teams. Of all those players, I only know 2 who regularly go to EL games. When we have a free weekend quite a few head off to England to watch their favourite teams. I myself occasionally bring my 8 year old to watch Shels, his choice not mine. He is football mad and plays for his local club. However now he is badgering me to bring him over to England to see a game. A lot of his mates have gone with their fathers to Premiership games, should I deprive him of this perceived treat on the grounds that it is being disloyal to the local game. The only thing that compares with the Premiership is international football and recently I have only managed to get tickets for friendlies.

Personally I think the EL has improved. The football is definitely better than say 10 years ago. Performances in Europe have improved. Unfortunately it is been blown out of the water by the Premiership.

[Ash]

When I was younger, along with the Town, I supported West Ham and
my Dad took me over to a good few games. I was taken in by all the hype,
merchandise, etc, and to be honest its hard not to be, one weekend in the
Staduim Of Tin with one man and his dog, the next on the packed terrace
in Upton Park.

When I was older I headed over to Parkhead aswell and the athmosphere
etc was great.

In the end I just found it all to be over hyped and got sick of it and I found
myself enjoying going to the Town games a lot more that heading over to
games in England/Scotland. Probably cos its easier to identify with the
players and also the standard because you actually get to know the
players/management etc and in some cases played underage football with
the players.

I still look out for West Ham and Celtic results but I'm more of a "follower"
than a supporter of them. Havent even bought a jersey in ages, except for
a Celtic away cos they we're selling them off in Roscommon for a tenner last
year - handy for training.

[zinedineontour]

Sunderland, good football and an atmosphere in the stadium of light.....good one that :D

theres always the opposition to watch ! You must never have been if you think it lacks atmosphere then ..

[stickyjoe]

You must never have been if you think it lacks atmosphere then ..

Thats true. Just been really surprised this season at the stadium only been half full for most games. How come they couldnt shift more season tickets?

[Schumi]

been really surprised this season at the stadium only been half full for most games.
Have you? They've got 11 points all year, I've been impressed with the crowds they're getting myself.

[stickyjoe]

Have you? They've got 11 points all year, I've been impressed with the crowds they're getting myself.

season books are sold before a season starts. and the north east is the "hotbed of english football". copyright sky sports

[Schumi]

season books are sold before a season starts. Doesn't mean you have to go though!

[CollegeTillIDie]

That's not ignorant at all. I've been to see EL games and just don't like the product. Why should I go to watch the games if I don't like them? Like 'Forever Dreaming' Ireland is my team. I don't associate with any EL team. As pointed out by several posters on this thread, EL fans seem to think they know more than the rest of us. Get off your high horse is what I say. If some of us don't like EL football, there's nothing wrong with that.

Nothing worse than a lapsed believer justifying or trying to justify their position :rolleyes:
EL fans do not necessarily know more than the rest of you, but we got to a lot more football than the rest of you and are actual real football fans and not event junkies.

[hoops1]

lets face it Ireland has a big event culture rather than any sort of loyal
weekly following for any team.
The GAA get 70 odd thousand into The Stadium of Greed for big games
In the league the Dubs get roughly 8 thousand at the home games every second week.If they were at home every week it would be less
Rugby Munster and Leinster are the same in the Heineken Cup
Huge crowds.For celtic league not half as much
In fairness most of the fans that go to Ireland games havent the first notion about football and if Ireland played every week theyd be lucky to get 15 thousand at the games
Those who go to English football rather than support there own league because its better quality or the atmosphere are living in Disneyland
Its the same rubbish or quality as you would see here just at a higher speed
With more numbskulls going to the games, the same fans who would say
Donkey racing was great if there was 30 thousand people at it.:eek:

[nedder]

Nothing worse than a lapsed believer justifying or trying to justify their position :rolleyes:
EL fans do not necessarily know more than the rest of you, but we got to a lot more football than the rest of you and are actual real football fans and not event junkies.


College,
I do not attend EL games regularily ( maybe 2/3 a year) but am involved with junior football and could attend 2/3 games each weekend including playing. Given a choice i would go and watch my local junior team than local EL team. I think thats more a question of affiliation, and the standard isn't that different to EL Div 1.
I'm sure their are many who attend Ireland games like me. Its a personal choice.

[nedder]

lets face it Ireland has a big event culture rather than any sort of loyal
weekly following for any team.
The GAA get 70 odd thousand into The Stadium of Greed for big games
In the league the Dubs get roughly 8 thousand at the home games every second week.If they were at home every week it would be less
Rugby Munster and Leinster are the same in the Heineken Cup
Huge crowds.For celtic league not half as much
In fairness most of the fans that go to Ireland games havent the first notion about football and if Ireland played every week theyd be lucky to get 15 thousand at the games
Those who go to English football rather than support there own league because its better quality or the atmosphere are living in Disneyland
Its the same rubbish or quality as you would see here just at a higher speed
With more numbskulls going to the games, the same fans who would say
Donkey racing was great if there was 30 thousand people at it.:eek:


Re event junkies, you're always goinfg to have them. Every sport, every time.

Agree fully on english football. Hopping on a plane every week to watch over paid mercenaries baffles me!

[CollegeTillIDie]

College,
I do not attend EL games regularily ( maybe 2/3 a year) but am involved with junior football and could attend 2/3 games each weekend including playing. Given a choice i would go and watch my local junior team than local EL team. I think thats more a question of affiliation, and the standard isn't that different to EL Div 1.
I'm sure their are many who attend Ireland games like me. Its a personal choice.
Two points 1) You play, or are involved in the game at junior level , which is obviously a lot different to the sort of people that we are talking about.
2) At least you go to 2-3 EL games a year which is a start!

Well a lot of players in LSL and MSL and similar leagues might be Division 1 standard but they cannot be arsed to travel the length and breadth of Ireland in that League , so do not have the right attitude to be EL players whatever about their ability.


lets face it Ireland has a big event culture rather than any sort of loyal
weekly following for any team.
The GAA get 70 odd thousand into The Stadium of Greed for big games
In the league the Dubs get roughly 8 thousand at the home games every second week.If they were at home every week it would be less
Rugby Munster and Leinster are the same in the Heineken Cup
Huge crowds.For celtic league not half as much
In fairness most of the fans that go to Ireland games havent the first notion about football and if Ireland played every week theyd be lucky to get 15 thousand at the games
Those who go to English football rather than support there own league because its better quality or the atmosphere are living in Disneyland
Its the same rubbish or quality as you would see here just at a higher speed
With more numbskulls going to the games, the same fans who would say
Donkey racing was great if there was 30 thousand people at it.:eek: Spot on !;)

[zinedineontour]

Thats true. Just been really surprised this season at the stadium only been half full for most games. How come they couldnt shift more season tickets?

they have had great support this season averaging over 30000 ... they have the 9th best average in the premier league so it really isnt that bad at all for one of the worst sunderland sides I have gone to watch .

[Forever Dreamin]

Nothing worse than a lapsed believer justifying or trying to justify their position :rolleyes:
EL fans do not necessarily know more than the rest of you, but we got to a lot more football than the rest of you and are actual real football fans and not event junkies.

What qualifies you as "real football fans"

Does the person who trains a schoolkids team 2 nights a week and a match at the weekend BUT doesnt either have the time or inclination to go to an EL game qualify? In fairness that takes up a hell of a lot more time and committment that just going thru the turnstiles for a clubs home games, or maybe home and away games.

Off course most managers theese days also attend management meetings and fai coaching courses as well but I doubt if that counts either.

There again were would the EL get it's plavers from if there werent "event junkies" who trainbed the kids who are the players of tomorrow.

I rest my case.

[hamish]

When I was younger, along with the Town, I supported West Ham and
my Dad took me over to a good few games. I was taken in by all the hype,
merchandise, etc, and to be honest its hard not to be, one weekend in the
Staduim Of Tin with one man and his dog, the next on the packed terrace
in Upton Park.

.
Wow, there's a coincidence. Just proves Athlone fans follow quality - local and foreign - it's in our genes. LOL:D
Same here Ash. In November 1980, I went to a Hammers v Swansea Town (as they were known then) on a Saturday, flew back Sunday morning and got back in plenty of time to see Athlone play Dundalk in Mels. Like you, I have a soft spot for the Irons but prefer local first. All the terraces at the Town game were well crowded - even behind the "far" goal.
There are (were maybe) a pair of brothers who used to go to Celtic on a Saturday and be back in time for a Town game on Sunday when I was involved. Bet you know whom I'm talking about.;) :D

[Ash]

Wow, there's a coincidence. Just proves Athlone fans follow quality - local and foreign - it's in our genes. LOL:D
Same here Ash. In November 1980, I went to a Hammers v Swansea Town (as they were known then) on a Saturday, flew back Sunday morning and got back in plenty of time to see Athlone play Dundalk in Mels. Like you, I have a soft spot for the Irons but prefer local first. All the terraces at the Town game were well crowded - even behind the "far" goal.
There are (were maybe) a pair of brothers who used to go to Celtic on a Saturday and be back in time for a Town game on Sunday when I was involved. Bet you know whom I'm talking about.;) :D

And they still regulary do, get a bus to Tullamore at an unearthly time of
the morning and head off with the Midlands branch of the C.S.C. for the
odd midweek game, back in time to train local underage club and then in
Mels for the Town game!

[Dassa]

I love supporting my country and plan many months in advance round the matches. However i love the feeling of watching my local club, and at a club like mine with little fans and money least you know the players are there for the shirt not the money, abit like internationals.

[NeilMcD]

As has been stated before, We all love the game so lets not have this real fan over not real fan etc. Why does it bother people so much. As long as people are not stopping you getting tickets etc well then what is the problem. We live in a free society were people can do what they want. If I go to every Ireland game for 10 years I dont look down on a guy who goes only to the big ones. Thats his life and he is free to live it the way he wants. The same if I go to all Bohs games I would not look down on somone who only goes to Ireland games.

[OwlsFan]

As has been stated before, We all love the game so lets not have this real fan over not real fan etc. Why does it bother people so much. As long as people are not stopping you getting tickets etc well then what is the problem. We live in a free society were people can do what they want. If I go to every Ireland game for 10 years I dont look down on a guy who goes only to the big ones. Thats his life and he is free to live it the way he wants. The same if I go to all Bohs games I would not look down on somone who only goes to Ireland games.

All very well until the fan who has been supporting the team for years can't get a ticket because the occasional fan who just likes the "big game" and the hype that surrounds it has taken his ticket. There is the "real fan" and it mightn't be pc to say it but I'd sooner see Lansdowne with 20K real fans screaming for their team than the ground full with many of the event junkies that go there these days who sit back waiting for the team and the real fans to entertain them.

[hoops1]

Neil you have missed the point big time.
If you follow a team 365 days a year through thin and thinner
Only to lose out on a ticket to someone who basically is looking for a night
out then you are not going to be a happy puppy
And have every right to say they are not real fans
Perfect example Shels against Depor now i would regularly and watch other Dublin teams if Rovers werent playing.
You could go down to the ground 10 mins before ko and get in.
But had I had some job getting a ticket becasue all the ole ole'ers where out
for the glam of the CL.The exact same fans that go to Ireland games to be honest.
Im sure there were genuine shels fans who couldnt get tickets because the night out brigade I.e not real fans gobbled them up
And thats only 1 example

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=NeilMcD] Why does it bother people so much. As long as people are not stopping you getting tickets etc well then what is the problem. We live in a free society were people can do what they want. QUOTE]

Please read a post before you respond to it. Did I not say that as long as they are not stopping people getting tickets well then there is no problem. The FAI have a good system in place regarding the block booking. As long as you go to every game you get a ticket for the next one. So I dont forsee a problem there. There is an issue with away games as they dont have a good system in place for that rather they just replicate the home system which is not good.

Regarding the Shels Deportivo game, Am I not right in saying that tickets were on sale well in advance so anybody who wanted to get a ticket had ample time to get one. Surely you are not saying that tickets should be kept for you to stroll along just before kick off and get a ticket.

[NeilMcD]

So we have snobbery within snobbery here also. Owls fan looks down on those that just go to the big games and the EL fan looks down on the Ireland fan and so on so on. You are not a real fan unless you have divorced your wife due to footballing reasons and you dont see your kids due to attending matches 24/7. the fact is there is always someone who is more dedicated than the next guy and thats fair enough. Most clubs or countries have ticketing systems in place to solve these issues. Its the problem of the clubs if they dont not the guy who just wants to go on for the night. He is not breaking the law.

[pineapple stu]

Neil, exaggerating to ridiculous extents like the way you're doing above does not prove your point, nor does it disprove others'.

No-one is suggesting you have to divorce your wife or not look after the kids to be a real fan. No-one is suggesting you have to live in your club's ground to be a real fan. No-one is suggesting going to big games only is breaking the law. Football just doesn't take that much of your life. It's two hours every other week if you just go to every home game of your club. And you can bring the family.

OwlsFan is right to look down on those who just attend the big games. It's called bandwagon jumping. Of course, those who only attend the big games don't like to have such a negative stigma attached to them and seek to reduce its importance by slagging those who call them bandwagon jumpers or who say they're no less of a fan, but it's true. (Note that there's a difference between only going to the big games because they're the big games and only going to games occasionally because that's all you have time/money to do. The issue of stopping people getting tickets is also irrelevant in a debate about who's a bigger or more respected fan).

My experience of people who follow English teams is that many do so because the teams are successful - not because of any emotional or local ties. It's very easy to pick a team because they're successful and because it's cool. It's far from easy to pick your local team and follow them through thick and thin. It's also far more enjoyable and, I suppose, meaningful. Again, the English bar-stool fans will argue adamantly that they can support who they want and that they choose to support Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal/whoever because of the quality, not because of the locality - yet they'll support Ireland over Brazil, which makes no sense. And they'll even choose Chelsea over Barcelona, which makes no sense. Even the fans of the English clubs Irish people support by-and-large can't understand our attitude. Basically, bar-stool fans are trying to justify being brainwashed by Sky Sports, hence the contempt from some eL fans.

Sport is about local emphasis. Every other sport in Ireland, we'll follow the Irish participant. We might appreciate the best in the world, but we'll always follow the Irish. Snooker - Ken Doherty. Rugby - the provinces. Golf - Clarke/Harrington/McGinley and so on. GAA - your home parish/county. The media focus on Irish teams and competitors in hockey, cricket, show-jumping and other sports. Football is the only sport in which Irish people en masse choose to support a foreign team, and justify it by bashing their local team.

Obviously, this debate will go around and around ad infinitum, because it predicts that bar-stoolers will continue to be brainwashed into believing that they're right. It also predicts that local sports fans will be adamant that they're right (which of course we are; we have the arguments to prove it). None of which, of course, will stop this thread rearing its head again in a year or two's time...

[NeilMcD]

Nobody is right to look down at anybody. It is a democratic society we live in and everybody has equal rights. People should not look down on others whether that be fore racial, monetary or footballing reason. Everybody is equal under the eyes of the constitution so this idea of looking down on somebody is rubbish.

The point I will make is that everybody is guilty of bandwagon jumping in various parts of their life. The person who goes to EL week in week out may suddently go to a David Gray gig as soon as he becomes successful. Maybe he should not go to this gig if he was not there at the start and did not go to the club gigs when David Gray was starting out. Both Music and football are forms of entertainment. You have people who have various choices in life and they choose to be entertained in whatever way they see fit. If they like going to Richmond Park on Friday night fair play. If they prefer to go to Shelbourne park to the dogs well then fair play. If they like to sit in pub and watch sky again fair play. They are entitled to do that that without having people look down on them. The only issue is regarding tickets for big matches. If a person goes to all the ireland games and then cant get one for a big match because a guy in a corporate company wants to go that is wrong. Otherwise I dont see why people get annoyed by it. Enjoy whatever football you like and less of the talking down to others who prefer to spend their time as their will. Also It is never good to lecture down to people and it will never be a good ploy to entice people to watch EL football.

[pineapple stu]

Nobody is right to look down at anybody. It is a democratic society we live in and everybody has equal rights.
I actually have a fundamental disagreement with this - I think it's PC nonsense. Democracy doesn't mean you can do what you want. It is a democratic right to criticise people who make decisions and back them up with foolish arguments, such as those I've pointed out above. People abuse democracy and freedom of speech to justify any sort of nonsense.

[NeilMcD]

I never said you can do what you want. But you are entitled to do what you want as long as it does not break the law in that particular country. You can criticise anybody you like. The point I am trying to make is that it serves no purpose for people to be bitter about band wagon jumpers or even junkies etc. They are doing no harm to you so just live your life and enjoy it. It certainly will not entice fans to the EL if people are acting in a snobbish way to it. As I said before Owls fan could be snobby towards fans that just go to big games. However someone who goes to El games could be snobby to someone who just goes Ireland internationals. We all have a certain amount of free time and we chose to spend it as we wish. If you or I wanna spend our friday evenings at an EL league in order to be entertained that is our wish and we are entitled to do so. But another person is entitled not to do that and he/she can go watch the Late Late show or Jonathan ross or whatever they wanna do.

I dont see the point in slagging or looking down at these people cause they made a different choice to your or I in how they would like to be entertained. THe only problem I see with it is, if the band wagon jumpers come along and take tickets from the supporters who go in week in week out. It is up to the authorities to stop this happening. Regarding international games this system is largely in place. Regarding EL games its not such a problem as very few games are sell outs.


Finally I am sure if all of a sudden the EL got very very popular you would probably have guys on here posting saying that all these new fans do not have a clue and they are ruinging the fun for the real supporter. They preferred it when there was a hardcore of 2,000 going to the games etc. When you have a large gathering of people you are always going to get those that are more commited that the next person whether that be a band and you know all the songs or a team and you go every week an dyou know all the players and the game is your passion. But at the end of the day its just various forms of entertainment and you and I have chosed to be entertained by football.

[Schumi]

I dont see the point in slagging or looking down at these people cause they made a different choice to your or I in how they would like to be entertained. THe only problem I see with it is, if the band wagon jumpers come along and take tickets from the supporters who go in week in week out.
The biggest problem I have with this is when fans of TV football slag off our teams and people who go to games here. If they kept their opinions to themselves we could ignore them like I, and I'm sure many others, would like to.

[NY Hoop]

Comparing music or tv shows to football is ridiculous and is always brought up by barstoolers. It was brought up when that whole wimbledon farce reared its head a few years back. And no Neil I'm not saying you're a barstooler. But if you are you deserve contempt.

How hard is it to understand that if you're Irish you should support an Irish club? Travel to any country in the world and this is the norm. The locals will follow their local side. But of course we have the "Best Supporters in the World":rolleyes:

And its not a "ploy" to entice people to EL games. Barstoolers cant think for themselves anyway. EL fans are more than entitled to abuse these people simply because they continually look down on their own league while not seeing their own laughable hypocrisy.

KOH

[reder]

Well this is a real sore point alright. Been posting on another site over the past few months and this topic always seems to cause tempers to run high.

Anyway I am from Liverpool, of umpteen levels of irish decent and brought up as irish but Liverpool is my local team. From the age of 5 I stood every home without fail in the boys pen on the old spion kop. I have lived here for many years. In the last year or so I started attended EL games. My first was rovers v bohs and it was very enjoyable. It was a throwback to the 80's to be in a ground where every single fan was connected with their club and only cared about the result. Since then I have attended games on a regular basis but I must admit I am something of a floating voter.

I still travel to Liverpool games quiet regularly, I attended the game last saturday in Old Trafford. The people you meet travelling to these games are well-to-do sorts. They dont understand the club like locals do, Hillsborough probably doesnt really hurt them. I wont be going to the cup final, I wont get a ticket but people here are paying €1,000 for a day trip to the game.

Anfield and most premiership grounds have changed drastically over the past 10 years, its obscenely corporate and pc. You can be ejected from a ground home or away for swearing or standing continuously. 50% or Liverpool fc home tickets go to people outside Liverpool now.

I tell people I see going to games that I attend EL fixtures and ask them why they dont go. They give me 2 distinct reasons, (a) because of the poor standard of football (b) cos of the trouble at games. I finding (b) hilarious. I have seen small isolated incidents of hassle at a few games (bohs v shels at the end of last season) but NOTHING on the scale of the hooliganism that occurs at certain PL fixtures. Last weekend, the toilets were smashed in the liverpool end, the walls were covered with Munich, Shipman and George Best graffiti and the mancs wrecked anfield when they played there in Feb. Man u fans hung banners on the bridges of the motorway saying "96 wasnt enough" last weekend.

Anyway for me the only reason they follow my local team, is cos its fashionable and quiet frankly its easy with our history in terms of trophies.

FYI - vendors outside anfield charge OOT (out-of-towners) more for the crap they sell which always amuses me.

[NeilMcD]

Comparing music or tv shows to football is ridiculous and is always brought up by barstoolers. It was brought up when that whole wimbledon farce reared its head a few years back. And no Neil I'm not saying you're a barstooler. But if you are you deserve contempt.

How hard is it to understand that if you're Irish you should support an Irish club? Travel to any country in the world and this is the norm. The locals will follow their local side. But of course we have the "Best Supporters in the World":rolleyes:

And its not a "ploy" to entice people to EL games. Barstoolers cant think for themselves anyway. EL fans are more than entitled to abuse these people simply because they continually look down on their own league while not seeing their own laughable hypocrisy.

KOH

But what happens if someone does not buy into the idea of nationality and the idea of a nation. Some people feel that is a obsolete idea that is part of the 20th and is not relevant in contemporary society. It can be argued that football is an entertainment industry and people are entitled to attend whatever event they would like to, whether this be a football match at Richmond Park or a football match at Anfield. Also you have not shown why comparing football to music is ridiculous. They are both forms of entertainment and both are parts of the culture of a society. Both football and music are open to outside influence and both also contained intrinsic aspects of the country that they are played in.


This idea that if you are irish you should support Ireland is open to debate also. You are entitled to support whoever you like. I am from Ireland and I feel Irish so I buy into the idea of Irish identity and the idea of nationhood and Irish culture etc. But I am quite willing to except that someoby could be Irish but could feel no affinity towards this country or its football teams and are interested in supporting other teams and other leagues. That is their right to do so and to be honest if they want to let them away with it. Looking down on them treating them with contempt or being rude to them achieves nothing.

Also anybody who only attends EPL games and slags off the Eircom League and abuses people for going to EL games is out of order also in my view.

[Schumi]

But what happens if someone does not buy into the idea of nationality and the idea of a nation. Some people feel that is a obsolete idea that is part of the 20th and is not relevant in contemporary society.
They wouldn't support Ireland then though would they?

[NeilMcD]

They may do, as they like that team. There is also another scenario of somebody supporting only Ireland because they are from Mayo or Clare or some place where there is no EL team. They support Ireland but do not support an EL team as they have no affinity with that team. There is also other examples of people coaching at lower levels and contributing huge amounts to Irish football but because they dont support an EL team they get looked down on etc. My point is that looking down on somebody or treating people with contempt achieves nothing and is not a positive action that actually improves the situation in anyway. It is only done to massage the persons ego and the help them believe that they somehow are a real supporter.

[NY Hoop]

They may do, as they like that team. There is also another scenario of somebody supporting only Ireland because they are from Mayo or Clare or some place where there is no EL team. They support Ireland but do not support an EL team as they have no affinity with that team. There is also other examples of people coaching at lower levels and contributing huge amounts to Irish football but because they dont support an EL team they get looked down on etc. My point is that looking down on somebody or treating people with contempt achieves nothing and is not a positive action that actually improves the situation in anyway. It is only done to massage the persons ego and the help them believe that they somehow are a real supporter.

Thats just your opinion and on the last sentence you are wrong. Again you cant compare music to football. If you have to ask for reasons then thats sad..........

KOH

[pineapple stu]

But what happens if someone does not buy into the idea of nationality and the idea of a nation. Some people feel that is a obsolete idea that is part of the 20th and is not relevant in contemporary society. It can be argued that football is an entertainment industry and people are entitled to attend whatever event they would like to, whether this be a football match at Richmond Park or a football match at Anfield. Also you have not shown why comparing football to music is ridiculous. They are both forms of entertainment and both are parts of the culture of a society. Both football and music are open to outside influence and both also contained intrinsic aspects of the country that they are played in.

This idea that if you are irish you should support Ireland is open to debate also. You are entitled to support whoever you like. I am from Ireland and I feel Irish so I buy into the idea of Irish identity and the idea of nationhood and Irish culture etc. But I am quite willing to except that someoby could be Irish but could feel no affinity towards this country or its football teams and are interested in supporting other teams and other leagues. That is their right to do so and to be honest if they want to let them away with it.
All very eloquent Neil, but ultimately complete rubbish. If the concept of a national identity were dying, "Irish" (if you wish) people would be supporting Brazil, France, Germany or England. They don't - they support Ireland, and the whole point of this thread is to show that huge amounts of people spend huge amounts of money doing it. I've never met an Irish person who supports a different country over Ireland.

Nobody is denying that people don't have a right to support foreign club teams - what they are saying is that there is a strong argument to be made for saying that someone who sits in the pub "following" "their" team (which they picked because they were doing well) is much less of a fan than someone who supports their local team week in week out.

[Karlos]

The biggest problem I have with this is when fans of TV football slag off our teams and people who go to games here. If they kept their opinions to themselves we could ignore them like I, and I'm sure many others, would like to.

I would suggest if this alleged tv viewing is such an issue that our 'real' fans lead by example to highlight the point. :)

At the last check, the world football forum was full of quite a few self proclaimed 'real' fans commenting on what I assume, is TV viewing of UK & european football (based on the notion that their obvious anti feelings towards it wouldn't permit them to attend a game not involving Irish teams).

I can't remember ever posting on anything topical in an Eircom League forum besides the odd 'for my own info' question on Dublin City, my chosen passing interest. Others mightn't be as tight lipped as me on commenting on Eircom League issues but perhaps they will see the errors of their ways when our 'real' fans show them how to go about not giving their opinions on things they have no interest, little knowledge or would ever want to watch live.

One rule for all should help solve that issue, imo. :)

[pineapple stu]

Others mightn't be as tight lipped as me on commenting on Eircom League issues but perhaps they will see the errors of their ways when our 'real' fans show them how to go about not giving their opinions on things they have no interest, little knowledge or would ever want to watch live.
Not really. I don't think you can justify sitting in a pub and calling it "supporting" by saying you don't give out about others.

[Karlos]

Not really. I don't think you can justify sitting in a pub and calling it "supporting" by saying you don't give out about others.

I'm not sure I fully get what your saying here. Someone made a comment about TV watching football fans commenting on Eircom League games and how they would love to ignore it. I'm saying maybe they won't comment (particualry here) if the same people, who are going in to football forums they are claiming to have no interest, stop doing exactly the same.

I have absolutely no shame in taking my Ireland tickets every time as I have done for the majority of my life and not attending regualar Eircom matches with the 'real' fans. Am I less a fan than others? I don't think so in fact perosnally I feel my 6 hours a week in community football when I'm at home stands well against anyone else's 90 minutes of Eircom League action in the ridiculous 'real' fan stakes..

I honestly believe some people on both sides actually just love the situation as it is. I think it was Neil who said, if things changed people would give out about that too & I think he hit the nail on the head there, to be honest.

There's some sweeping generalistaions being made about anyone who doesn't actively support an eircom league team - the same type of sweeping generalisations that in return, are infuriating Eircom League fans, I might add.

There's a lot of growing up required on both sides, in my opinion. :)

[Forever Dreamin]

I have absolutely no shame in taking my Ireland tickets every time as I have done for the majority of my life and not attending regualar Eircom matches with the 'real' fans. Am I less a fan than others? I don't think so in fact perosnally I feel my 6 hours a week in community football when I'm at home stands well against anyone else's 90 minutes of Eircom League action in the ridiculous 'real' fan stakes..


:)

I couldnt agree more with this post, and the 6 hours is probably an underestimate as it's 2 evenings and a half day at the weekend, not a match once a fortnight followed by a few beers!!

And just to emphasise people who support a team by way of going to matches weather it's the EL, LSL, DDSL or whatever are just as much supporters. The point is real supporters come in various guises!