Tonights CL

[razor]

Superb performance by Arsenal, thoroughly deserved victory.
Juve were very very poor, really missing Nedved.
As a neutral it was a good game but completely ruined for me by the ITV commentary. The pro Arsenal bias was so unprofessional. Asking for yellow cards for every Juve foul and making snide schoolboy comments about Vieira.
Never thought i'd be so glad to hear Trevor Welch.:D

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Arsenal were superb. As good as I've seen Pires play ever. Eboue looks like he's been playing top flight for years. Fabregas was amazing again. I know it's more common for young players to rise to prominence early these days but to play like that as a playmaking central midfielder at that age is remarkable. Gilberto has looked like he's been living off his reputation at times in the Premiership this year but he did a great job in front of the defence.

[jockser]

Juve cant handle fast "in your face" football at all
arsenal did well
commentary on itv was abysmal

[drinkfeckarse]

Very good to watch even though I only caught the 2nd half, Arsenal look as if they are starting to click again. They're obviously not the team they used to be but there's not many teams about that can play the slick football they can when they get it together.

[green army]

on tv 3 trevor welsh said that only 3 post war managers lead their their through the league campaign unbeaten. wenger and capello were 2 did anyone hear who he said the other one was.

[NeilMcD]

Great performance by Arsenal. Juve were made to look poor and Fabregas is a remarkable player for one so young. Its one thilng to be a young winger or forward but to do it in the centre of midfield is remarkable. The European matches are certainly more suited to this Arsenal team than the rough and tumble of the EPL

[Stuttgart88]

Great performance by Arsenal. Juve were made to look poor and Fabregas is a remarkable player for one so young. Its one thilng to be a young winger or forward but to do it in the centre of midfield is remarkable. The European matches are certainly more suited to this Arsenal team than the rough and tumble of the EPL
The last few rounds of the CL has caused me to reconsider my assessment of England's chances this summer. We all watch English & Irish football week in, week out and this forms the basis for most of us, well me anyway, to judge how good a team is. But I think there's a higher plane of football being played that thrives under the different refereeing styles outside the P'ship & I think that this is most likely to win out this summer. Of course, the likes of Greece & Liverpool provide contradictory evidence but I still think that real quality is likely to prevail. Anyone else got an opiniopn on this?

[OwlsFan]

No mention of Toure - I thought he had an excellent game.

England won't win the WC not matter who is refereeing. Other than the friendly against Argentina, I have yet to see them play really well. To lose in a qualifier against Norn Iron :eek:

[Stuttgart88]

No mention of Toure - I thought he had an excellent game. Toure was excellent alright.

[Karlos]

I think the whole defence have been magnificent in the champions league. They equalled Milan's record of 7 straight clean sheets in Europe last night and did so in the majority without 3 international first choice defenders in Lauren, Cole & Campbell. Despite having little to do last night, Lehmann remains for me Arsenal's player of the season. He claimed crosses and marshalled the defence all season long.

Theirry Henry once again shoved the 'he doesn't do it in big games' lark down the the mouths of reporters & fans (won't stop them spouting it out as soon as Arsenal lose a big game though :rolleyes: ). Cesc & Pires were fantastic in midfield. Cesc should have got young player of the year last year (wasn't even nominated), it will be a crime if he doesn't get it this year.:(

Wenger proved (not that he needed to) against the allegedly tactically superior Capello that he is a match for any manager in Europe.

More important however is the game against Villa on Saturday. Arsenal could go still go out of Europe at any stage as is the nature of any cup competition. They need to get fourth spot and not soley focus on the Champions League. :)

[Kingdom]

Cesc should have got young player of the year last year (wasn't even nominated), it will be a crime if he doesn't get it this year.:(


Don't know about that Karlos, there's a young fella knocking around called Teddy Sheringham.....

On a serious level though, to say Capello is allegedly tactically superior is pushing it. The man is a legend in fairness and Wenger has a long way to go to get to his level imho.

[CraftyToePoke]

The last few rounds of the CL has caused me to reconsider my assessment of England's chances this summer. We all watch English & Irish football week in, week out and this forms the basis for most of us, well me anyway, to judge how good a team is. But I think there's a higher plane of football being played that thrives under the different refereeing styles outside the P'ship & I think that this is most likely to win out this summer. Of course, the likes of Greece & Liverpool provide contradictory evidence but I still think that real quality is likely to prevail. Anyone else got an opiniopn on this?

i think your'e spot on stutt, but how much of it is the press, (in particular the enlglish tabloid press and sky), constantly whipping up a frenzy of supposed infallibility in their national side thereby indirectly influencing and raising our opinion of the players we see most often in their national league?

when you read David Pleats piece on Owen Garvan he marvels at Garvans ability to shield the ball in tight areas while closely marked and goes on to say that this is a quality frequently lacking in players from the islands.the entire midfields on many of englands opponents will posess this ability and will guys like Lampard really be technicially proficient enough to overcome them?

not wishing any ill on englands chances, but i doubt it.

[tetsujin1979]

No mention of Toure - I thought he had an excellent game.

England won't win the WC not matter who is refereeing. Other than the friendly against Argentina, I have yet to see them play really well. To lose in a qualifier against Norn Iron :eek:
England were slightly lucky in that game, Riquelme was running the show in midfield, and it wasn't until he came off that England started to show some superiority in midfield.

[Karlos]

Don't know about that Karlos, there's a young fella knocking around called Teddy Sheringham.....

Oh Teddy Teddy, went to Man United are your still a......

On a serious level though, to say Capello is allegedly tactically superior is pushing it. The man is a legend in fairness and Wenger has a long way to go to get to his level imho.[/QUOTE]

[Karlos]

Don't know about that Karlos, there's a young fella knocking around called Teddy Sheringham.....

Oh Teddy Teddy, went to Man United are your still a......:D



On a serious level though, to say Capello is allegedly tactically superior is pushing it. The man is a legend in fairness and Wenger has a long way to go to get to his level imho.

My point is more aimed at the people who claimed Wenger was completly tactically inept compared to other European Managers such as Capello. I agree with you Capello appears to be a tactical genius, I'm a big fan but it's impossible to measure tactical brilliance alone. Tactics can't work without players clever enough to play in them. All the tactics in the world can't make players play well as Juve have proved more than once under Capello in Europe.

Often with Arsenal in Europe the tactics were spot on but the performances of the players didn't match. Wenger plays the same style of football now as during the so called tactically inept years. The only variable has been the players in the system. Suddenly today, Wenger's ineptness is not in question by the same fickle journo's. Papers & fans are raving about his use of the 5 man midfield last night, the same 5 man midfield system I might add they slated him over after the defeat to Bayern in last years Quarter Final.

Last night (and this european campaign in general) has proved to people who didn't know any better to begin with that Wenger is far from tactically inept in Europe.

[klein4]

What do arsenal fans think of hleb???????
He was one of the worsest players I have ever seen on a football pitch.
its like he used to be indecisive but now hes not so sure....rubbish

[Karlos]

I thought Hleb had one of his least effective games last night in recent weeks but thought he was fantastic against Madrid in both legs and ran the show in the recent league game against Charlton. He's got bags of skill, poise & control but sometimes for me takes one touch to many . In fairness He's come into his first season at Arsenal into a struggling early part of the season and then had a lenghty lay off with injury. Some Players need more time to settle than others and i think Hleb has got better & better since returning from that long injury layoff.

It's worth mentioning that in March 2001 of Robert Pires's first season at Arsenal, he was absolute rubbish and looked to be heading out the door until two goals in a week against Spurs appeared to ignite him. By the march of the following year, he was player of the year winner despite missing the last 3 months of the season. It was a dramatic turn around. Likewise with many of the other foreign players at Arsenal. Had you told me in the March of Henry's first season that he would smash Wrighty's record I would have laughed.

I think Hleb certainly has the talent and the skill to make it at Arsenal. His work-rate is pehnomenal and will pay off for him in the long run.

[klein4]

I thought he was poor away to madrid and I only seen half an hour of him last nite and i think you are understating how bad he actually was. he seemed to stand there everytime he got the ball as if he didnt know what to do with it. I have never seen anyone look so poor in a major game. it wasnt that he was having a shocker he just looked like playing football was something that was alien to him. I heard he was a class player before he came to arsenal alrite but he has been disapointing everytime I see him.

[Karlos]

I thought he was poor away to madrid and I only seen half an hour of him last nite and i think you are understating how bad he actually was. he seemed to stand there everytime he got the ball as if he didnt know what to do with it. I have never seen anyone look so poor in a major game. it wasnt that he was having a shocker he just looked like playing football was something that was alien to him. I heard he was a class player before he came to arsenal alrite but he has been disapointing everytime I see him.

I honestly didn't think he that bad. His pass to Fabregas to open up the juve defence for the second goal was sublime and his defensive work rate was second to none. He wasn't as effective going forward as in previous weeks but he was far from the worst player I ever saw in a major game. His performance was below the standard of some of his team mates last night but nothing more in my opinion.

It should also be added that he isn't a natural winger either and has played a handful of games for Arsenal there now. He's been converted there from his preferred central playmaker role. He spoke about it recently on the uefa website I think. I'll try and dig up the link

[Clifford]

I thought he was poor away to madrid and I only seen half an hour of him last nite and i think you are understating how bad he actually was. he seemed to stand there everytime he got the ball as if he didnt know what to do with it. I have never seen anyone look so poor in a major game. it wasnt that he was having a shocker he just looked like playing football was something that was alien to him. I heard he was a class player before he came to arsenal alrite but he has been disapointing everytime I see him.

You fishing again bud? :rolleyes:

Hleb was outstanding in both games v Madrid and did a very understated job last night in the bigger scheme of things - without being amazing it must be said, he was very effective. He'll settle in well next season I'd imagine.

[hamish]

Janey mac, 1-1 between Inter and Villereal after 7 mins.:eek:
Adriano was very unlucky just before he equalised.

[Karlos]

Janey mac

Foot.ie certainly brings out the best in words from the past! :)

I just read an older thread with the word 'gammy' in it earlier and now 'janey mac'. Great Stuff. Apologies for the off-topic post!

2-1 now.

Winners of this game will face either Arsenal or Juve. Neither look that hot so far. :)

[hamish]

Foot.ie certainly brings out the best in words from the past! :)

I just read an older thread with the word 'gammy' in it earlier and now 'janey mac'. Great Stuff. Apologies for the off-topic post!

2-1 now.

Winners of this game will face either Arsenal or Juve. Neither look that hot so far.

Trying not to use words like Jesus etc so kinda drifted into Janey Mac again.

Anyway it's a groovy expression..:D

[klein4]

"You fishing again bud?

Hleb was outstanding in both games v Madrid and did a very understated job last night in the bigger scheme of things - without being amazing it must be said, he was very effective. He'll settle in well next season I'd imagine."
what are ya on about?
outstanding???????????
He looks very hesitant when he gets the ball and generally loses it which is criminal at that level.
mate was watching and he agreed. so ya know where to stick your "fishing"

[Clifford]

"You fishing again bud?

Hleb was outstanding in both games v Madrid and did a very understated job last night in the bigger scheme of things - without being amazing it must be said, he was very effective. He'll settle in well next season I'd imagine."
what are ya on about?
outstanding???????????
He looks very hesitant when he gets the ball and generally loses it which is criminal at that level.
mate was watching and he agreed. so ya know where to stick your "fishing"

What?

[klein4]

It means I dont rate him too highly. altho arsenal are great to watch.

[Clifford]

It means I dont rate him too highly. altho arsenal are great to watch.

Set up the second goal into the bargain!! Great through ball to Fabregas. Only time will tell how he gets on.

[CollegeTillIDie]

England won't win the WC not matter who is refereeing. Other than the friendly against Argentina, I have yet to see them play really well. To lose in a qualifier against Norn Iron :eek:

Give Lawrie Sanchez boys a bit of credit... I think in fairness to Norn Iron in an All-Ireland team these days there could be up to 4 of them in the starting 11.

[hamish]

Aaah, maaaan, anyone watch that Champions League gane betweeb Milan and Lyon.
Why did Houllier bring on Carew? - he did absolutely nothing, not even to make a nuisance to the Milan back four and then they ended hoofing feckin' balls up the field at times.:mad:
Jesus, Lyon had a bloody great chance to get to the semi-finals and they feckin' blew it.
Can't see that shaky Milan defence winning them a Champions League title now.
Smashing game and very tense but what a sickener for the 12,000 Lyons fans - 3 minutes and the - poof - they concede a soft enough goal.
Footie is the cruelest game ever invented.

[dfx-]

I fancied Lyon to win that game tonight...that really is a terrible terrible way out

The celebrations from Milan were more of relief than anything else - they know they've got away with it, but if I was Barca or Benfica I wouldn't be worried by the Milan 'threat'...

More and more I see them, the more a spent force they look.

[hamish]

I fancied Lyon to win that game tonight...that really is a terrible terrible way out

The celebrations from Milan were more of relief than anything else - they know they've got away with it, but if I was Barca or Benfica I wouldn't be worried by the Milan 'threat'...

More and more I see them, the more a spent force they look.

Agree with you there dfx - was really rooting for Lyon and that 2nd goal was a sickener.

[deecay]

I had a fiver on lyon to win the tournament at 15/2 so to put it very very mildly im not that happy tonight:mad:

[Kingdom]

Thats 2 years ina row now that Lyon have left it behind them, imo anyway! Last year they shouldn't have lost to PSV and this year they really shouldn't have lost to Milan.

This is for Karlos...... a few posts previous on this thread, we discussed managers who had got good results regardless of his tactics due to the quality of the players. Tonight showed that a manager needs to be tactically astute because somewhere along the line the players will need a bit o' genius from a manager. Capello 94 Benitez 05. Houllier 06 won't be added to that list.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Just been watching EURO NEWS ( via RTE) and they previewed Barcelona v Benfica on the Sports section. Don't be surprised if Benfica do it boys , they have a secret weapon... one of the sponsors on their training gear is
Esprito Santo ( Holy Spirit) . With God on their side how can they lose? :D

[Stuttgart88]

Quality performance from Arsenal again last night. Eboue was lucky to get away with an elbow, but otherwise he just looks a class act. What a find. Fabregas looks like a veteran. Once again I'd single out Lehmann for doing all the things I love a goalie to do & for leading from the back. It's not all about flashy saves.

[dfx-]

Quality performance from Arsenal again last night.

:rolleyes:

Funny I must have been watching a different match - the one I was watching was where Arsenal were very poor in what they tried to do - it's just that a team of three legged cats could've done better than predictable, dull, lack-of-any-urgency-at-all Juventus team that didn't seem to care and were playing the most overrated player in the history of the game in Ibrahimovic as a handicap.:confused:

What game were you watching and on what channel - I would've liked to have seen this quality performance which you speak of...must be an urban myth..

[OwlsFan]

If you're 2-0 up and going to the home of the runaway leaders of the Italian League and limit them to a few half chances, it is a good performance. Wouldn't quite use the word "quality" but for a team many people had written off coming up the Christmas, they did very well. Amazing what a confidence boost can do. Henry was excellent and always a threat.

Arsenal are not the finished article by any means and better Arsenal teams have gone out before this stage. I wouldn't necessarily bet my house on them beating Villareal but sooner them than Barca or Milan at the semi stage.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought it was a toatlly controlled performance & they carved out very good opportunities on the break. They needed to defend a 2 goal lead and they did so pretty comfortably. No?

At virtually no stage last night did I feel Juve had a chance of getting through without the benefit of a deflection. Better finishing from Ljungberg, Henry & Fabregas would have killed the game completely, as would a better cross by Eboue when Juve were massively outnumbered. Of course Juve, the home team chasing the game, had periods of pressure and on occasion they dominated possession but Arsenal always had something in reserve.

[NeilMcD]

Juventus were rubbish last night and I think Giles was right when he said a really great Arsenal team would have beaten them by 2 or 3 goals. As long as the game remained 0-0 there was a possiblity that Juve coudl nick a goal and then all of a sudden the Arsenal back four could get nervous. WHy let that happen when you are playing against such a poor outfit as Juve have been over the last 3 or 4 months. Arsenals passing of the ball was not good, with the exception of Fabregas and Gilberto was terrible.

[Clifford]

Quality performance from Arsenal again last night. Eboue was lucky to get away with an elbow,

It's not all about flashy saves.

Spot on, as I said elsewhere no idea where the idiots on murte were coming from. There was a job to be done, the job was done to a plan almost perfectly. The only near thing was the ball across to Trez and Nedved's shot saved excellently by the flawless Lehman.

To say Juve are poor is frugal, played 32 in the league, one lost, 9 points clear - yeah they were missing 5 or 6, but that's not the Arsenal's fault.

I thought Gilberto was awesome, did everything Keane used to do, win it and give it simple, but of course the boys didn't want to know about that, wanted three 30 yard screamers from Gilberto and Fabregas cos that's what happens in every game in the world.

As Platt and Quinn said a professional job was needed and that's what it got. The expected onslaught never came so there was no need for Arsenal to do any more.

[Clifford]

Juventus were rubbish last night and I think Giles was right when he said a really great Arsenal team would have beaten them by 2 or 3 goals. As long as the game remained 0-0 there was a possiblity that Juve coudl nick a goal and then all of a sudden the Arsenal back four could get nervous.

And you support who? ;)

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?

[NeilMcD]

If you wanna talk about muppets I think Platt and Quinn are right up there with the best of the muppets. Neither of them ever has an intelligent word to say and they get caught up in the Sky hype that is the British teams. At least Giles is able to sit back and analyse the game as a true professional that he is and from a non bias perspective. Juve have been poor over the last few months and they were terrible over the last 2 games. That is not to take away from Arsenal as its a great job done and they were brilliant in the 1st leg. But they were far from brilliant last night and there passiing was terrible and Gilberto was one of the main culprits of it.

[NeilMcD]

And you support who? ;)

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?


What difference does it make who I support. Has nothing to do with this discussion. Arsenal were fantastic in the 1st leg and poor last night. Simple as that.

[PaulB]

Giles was a complete arsehole last night, annoys the **** out of me. Arsenal were playing away from home against the Italian league leaders, with a 2-0 lead. What would you do, go gung ho, or see how the water is settling for the first 10-20 minutes.

I thought Arsenal did quite well without being brilliant, and with some better finishing could have won the game easily..

[NeilMcD]

And you support who? ;)

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?


Also I did not say 3 or 4 I said 2 or 3. If you are going to argue against me at least try to quote me correctly please.

[dfx-]

There was a job to be done, the job was done to a plan almost perfectly.

The expected onslaught never came so there was no need for Arsenal to do any more.

Nah, there must've been some other game on last night..I'm sure of it now..

The job was done perfectly..?! Arsenal were defending their 18 yards line and not doing it very well, couildn't clear the ball, hacking at it, nervous. However the crucial reason why Arsenal are through is because Juve were so diabolical that they didn't need to do anything. Arsenal could have defended their goal line and Juve still would've hit the ball high to Ibrahimovic - it got to the stage where they couldn't even hoof the ball accurately. It's all they did all night - lack of discipline, lack of effort, it was a disgraceful performance from Juventus and all Arsenal had to do was stay out on the pitch at the end.

Juve players walking nee trudging with 20 minutes left, slowing the game down, no invention, no guile, no willingness to unlock a defence that Bolton do with ease - "Juventus are playing wihthout a single midfielder on the pitch" - to be outmuscled in midfield by Arsenal.....?!! You'd have to be bad..:eek:

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Villareal make it a clean sweep of English sides they've played. Ignorance from Premiership watchers of they only have Riquelme and Forlan was rubbish at Utd. really gets to me when Villareal have prevailed against teams far better than Arsenal. Could well be an all Spanish final..:cool:


Or perhaps we should stick to the English media line of "Arsenal heroes stoically hold out in Turin cauldron":rolleyes:

[Clifford]

What difference does it make who I support.

I'd say it's relevant, I know I never see the wood for the trees when it comes to my team's greatest rivals.

Great to see all the differing opinions, IMHO. That's what it's all about.

You think they HAD to go there and win by 2 or 3 (sorry for saying 3 or 4 earlier, I'll never do it again even though it was in no way quoting you, it was all my own figures which I thought was allowed!), I thought they knew they had the job done in leg one and didn't need to do anything more than keep Juve at arms length.

Both are valid opinions on the job they had to do. Wegner is no fool, Johnny Giles called him a liar ffs, that's a disgrace. Giles is outdated, thinks every game should be a 3-3 classic. I'd love to see him actually compliment a team on a performance, he even said Arsenal's win in Madrid was cos Madrid were so bad, not cos the Arsenal were so good. Give me a break.

[lsc6902]

Did anyone see the under 19 Irish Ruby match yesterday. Is keith Earls a star in the making. :cool:

[NeilMcD]

Again you have mis quoted me I did not say they had to win by 2 or 3. I said that Giles said that a really great Arsenal team would gone on to beat Juve by 2 or 3. If Arsenal had of played well last night they would have won by 2 or 3. Because they did not play well and Juve were worse the game ended 0-0. Thats fair enough and Arsenal can rightly celebrate. However its the job of the pundit to analyse the game in front of him and he using his vast amount of knowledge of the game saw that Arsenal played poorlya and Juve were even worse. Arsenal gave the ball away numerous times only to receive it back from long punts by Juve. Even Liam Brady was saying he could not believe how badly Juve played and that Arsenal were poor and they need to lift their game for the next match against Villareal.

Secondly my support for spurs is pretty minimal compared to my support for Ireland and I like this Arsenal team as they play good football and very attractive to watch. I hope they get to the final and play Barcalona who bea them as they play even nicer football to watch. Arseanl are no rival of mine as I live in Dublin so the rivalry of the north london derby bears no significance to a guy from Dublin.

[Clifford]

However the crucial reason why Arsenal are through is because Juve were so diabolical that they didn't need to do anything. Arsenal could have defended their goal line and Juve still would've hit the ball high to Ibrahimovic


So why would they do anything else if Juve were so crap? To entertain you? The job was done in the home leg, for years that's the way teams have played - win at home and go for draw away from home, Pool did it last season and if it get's you through I can't see the prob to be honest.





I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Villareal make it a clean sweep of English sides they've played. Ignorance from Premiership watchers of they only have Riquelme and Forlan was rubbish at Utd. really gets to me when Villareal have prevailed against teams far better than Arsenal. Could well be an all Spanish final..:cool:


Or perhaps we should stick to the English media line of "Arsenal heroes stoically hold out in Turin cauldron"

Totally agree with you in regard to Villareal, I think they will really push Arsenal and are finding form at the right time of the season.

Yet by stating Villareal have prevailed againast teams far better than Arsenal you imply Inter are world beaters to suit your argument, yet they are how far behing Juve at the mo? So by using your own argument how the hell did Villareal only draw in the San Siro?