Owen Garvan profiled in the Guardian

[Plastic Paddy]

Well worth a read. David Pleat also mentions Billy Clarke and Shane Supple as players with bright futures. :D

:ball: PP

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http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1741157,00.html

David Pleat
Tuesday March 28, 2006
The Guardian


Financial restrictions have forced Ipswich to make the most of their youth policy and Owen Garvan, one of the homegrown talents, looks destined for the very top. He looks to have shades of Arnold Muhren, Kevin Sheedy and Liam Brady: an old-fashioned midfielder with a good left foot.

That may sound very high praise but this boy has great quality. When he plays a pass and gets the return he has already seen the next ball he wants to play and that is a special talent in someone so young. He also shows subtlety, balance and a sleight of foot beyond his years. When he receives possession he has a knack of being able to deceive opponents by dropping his shoulder and drifting away from them effortlessly. His speed of thought makes up for not being outstandingly fast.

Garvan's best position is on the left side of a central midfield pair where he can receive the ball off his defenders and make the play by bringing team-mates into the game. That is usually the quality of a player of some experience. Jim Magilton has been Ipswich's schemer-in-chief for several seasons but his time is coming to an end and Garvan will take his place with confidence.

Garvan can pass accurately short and long but what has particularly impressed me is his ability to shield possession, a quality not always seen in players from the British Isles. When tackles fly in or he is hounded by an opponent he has the composure to move and keep the ball.

He likes to shoot and can hit fierce drives from the edge of the box. He will get stronger from playing consistently in the Championship but already he can look after himself. Although still slim he shows determination and a willingness to put his foot into tackles against stronger and more experienced players.

When I first saw Garvan I wondered whether he was fully tuned in to defensive responsibilities. Balls got played behind him, I thought he was slow to react and my first instinct was that he lacked pace. But he reacts swiftly now when Ipswich lose possession and, having watched him closely, I can see he has enough speed. A slightly ugly duckling running style can make him appear sluggish at times.

It is a terrific accolade for a boy of 18 that he has rarely been out of the side this season. Ipswich won the Youth Cup last year and he showed enough quality in the first leg of the final against Southampton for Joe Royle to feel confident of using him. Three others in that team, Billy Clarke, Darryl Knights and the goalkeeper Shane Supple, also look to have particularly bright futures.

I am told Garvan is mentally strong, single-minded and one of the last to leave training, even coming in on his day off. In Royle and the assistant manager Willie Donachie he has terrific people to guide him. Ipswich have sold to survive since the Bobby Robson era and they must hope that this time the club can progress without sacrificing this fine young talent.

Age 18

Born Dublin

Position Midfield

Height 6ft

Weight 10st 8lb

From Academy

Heading 7/10

Pace 7½/10

Awareness 8½/10

Shooting 8/10

Passing 8/10

Team responsibility 8/10

Pleat's valuation £1m-£1.5m

[Stuttgart88]

Very interesting. Pleat also profiled Kevin Foley in a similar manner recently. He seems to like the Irish lads.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

That's an accurate account of Garvan's abilities. I seem to recall Pleat saying that Kevin Foley had an "ugly duckling, waddle" style of running also. Maybe he likes those types of players.:D

[NeilMcD]

I notice that Pleat says Garvan is homegrown despite the fact that he is from Ireland, now where did I hear this before.

[tetsujin1979]

I notice that Pleat says Garvan is homegrown despite the fact that he is from Ireland, now where did I hear this before.
I think he meant that Garvan has come through the youth ranks, rather than saying he was from Ipswich

[Dodge]

Exactly. A non issue.

[drummerboy]

I think all young Irish kids going to England should look at the progress made by Garvan, Supple and Clarke at a club like Ipswich. Going to the likes of Arsenal, United and Chelsea really curtails their chances of making progress, and they should be encouraged to join clubs with a proven track record at producing young players.

[NeilMcD]

Sorry my point was a bit obscure it was in relation to a debate about Messi not too long ago on the World Football forum. I argued that home grown from a club has nothing to do with nationality

[livehead1]

I think all young Irish kids going to England should look at the progress made by Garvan, Supple and Clarke at a club like Ipswich. Going to the likes of Arsenal, United and Chelsea really curtails their chances of making progress, and they should be encouraged to join clubs with a proven track record at producing young players.
what are ya on about?!?! Arsenal and United have produced some of the best youngsters over the last 10 years, it just so happens that the irish players who have gone there have not been good enough!

[eirebhoy]

what are ya on about?!?!
Leave that comment out of your post and people will give you more credit. I agree with drummerboy, if you're good enough you'll make it at Ipswich before you'll make it at Man Utd and I don't see why a player should spend an extra few years playing reserve football.

[livehead1]

Leave that comment out of your post and people will give you more credit. I agree with drummerboy, if you're good enough you'll make it at Ipswich before you'll make it at Man Utd and I don't see why a player should spend an extra few years playing reserve football.

o yeh, i agree with what you said there. What i read into drummerboy's comments was that a player won't make it at man utd or arsenal as they dont have a proven track record of bringing players through. To be fair to them ,they take on a lot of lads , and only the very very best will get through. at a club like you say, ipswich, players will have more of a chance, mainly due to financial constraints one feels. My local club at the moment, nottingham forest, is in a priveledged position where the chairman has put his hand in his pocket on a number of occassions this season, this seems to have coincided with a lack of youth players coming through. youth was a prevelant factor in there successful season a few years ago, when with no money, 5 or 6 lads came through, including andy reid and john thompson.

[Stuttgart88]

Livehead, to digress a little: how has John Thompson being doing at Forest lately? Any chance he'll step up a level? It all looked so good when Forest nearly went up a few years ago, with Thompson making a big contribution & sometimes from midfield.

[drummerboy]

o yeh, i agree with what you said there. What i read into drummerboy's comments was that a player won't make it at man utd or arsenal as they dont have a proven track record of bringing players through. To be fair to them ,they take on a lot of lads , and only the very very best will get through. at a club like you say, ipswich, players will have more of a chance, mainly due to financial constraints one feels. My local club at the moment, nottingham forest, is in a priveledged position where the chairman has put his hand in his pocket on a number of occassions this season, this seems to have coincided with a lack of youth players coming through. youth was a prevelant factor in there successful season a few years ago, when with no money, 5 or 6 lads came through, including andy reid and john thompson.

What I was on about, as you put it, is that a kid who goes to a good championship club, will have far more opportunities to progress than one of the bigger premiership clubs. Lots of Irish talent have been left to stagnate in reserve team football. Players like Graham Barrett for example. Stayed far too long at Arsenal and lost out on a couple of years of his development, a situation from which he never recovered.

[paul_oshea]

Garvan can pass accurately short and long but what has particularly impressed me is his ability to shield possession, a quality not always seen in players from the British Isles.

ffs, fair play he is praising him, but fook off with the british isles thing.

[Stuttgart88]

I knew somebody would react to that :) Unjustified in IMHO though. I've no problem with the use of the term "British Isles". Last year Pleat said Spurs had more British players than anyone else. Now that was a careless comment. No malice in it though, not like the likes of the Daily Mail who still to this day refer to The British Lions. That old chestnut I suppose!

[Kingdom]

What I was on about, as you put it, is that a kid who goes to a good championship club, will have far more opportunities to progress than one of the bigger premiership clubs. Lots of Irish talent have been left to stagnate in reserve team football. Players like Graham Barrett for example. Stayed far too long at Arsenal and lost out on a couple of years of his development, a situation from which he never recovered.

Exactly the point I was going to make. Barrett was a class mate of mine and while not being the best player of his age group in the school(U.C.D.'s Ally McNally was), never mind the DDSL, he had excellent ball skills. Arsenal was the wrong choice for him as it was very apparent very quickly that he was never going to make the grade.
A lot of lads when they hear the big clubs involved get carried away. That's where the folks need to step in, with a bit of common sense and evaluate situations.

[NeilMcD]

It depends Stuttgart, It was careless if he was including Keane Reid and Kelly and Yeates in that but if he was just including Dawson, King, Jenas, Robinson, Defoe, Gardener, Carrick, Lennon, Ifil,

[youngirish]

It depends Stuttgart, It was careless if he was including Keane Reid and Kelly and Yeates in that but if he was just including Dawson, King, Jenas, Robinson, Defoe, Gardener, Carrick, Lennon, Ifil,
I think that the English find it hard to let go of their oldest and closest former dominion. Maybe after another 100 years of independence they might cop that we are no longer under their rule. I wonder why they don't question why there are no Republic of Ireland athletes in the Commonwealth games.

[Macy]

I've no doubt the likes of Ipswich chew up and spit out as many Irish players that don't make the grade as the bigger clubs. You're still only hearing about the ones that make the first team squad.

[Donal81]

ffs, fair play he is praising him, but fook off with the british isles thing.

Is the British Isles not a geographical term like the Irish Sea as opposed to a political one?

[drummerboy]

I've no doubt the likes of Ipswich chew up and spit out as many Irish players that don't make the grade as the bigger clubs. You're still only hearing about the ones that make the first team squad.

Possibly. That particular year, I think they signed 4 from Home Farm, Garvan, Supple, Synnott and an other. All still there though. However, a Cork lad who scored a goal in the FA Youth Cup final last year, Cathal Lordon is being released in the summer, probably join his brother at Cork City. Another lad named Nash who has played in the first team is also been released because of persistent injuries. My point is that at least the smaller club will give them a better chance to progress.

[Stuttgart88]

It depends Stuttgart, It was careless if he was including Keane Reid and Kelly and Yeates in that but if he was just including Dawson, King, Jenas, Robinson, Defoe, Gardener, Carrick, Lennon, Ifil,Yeah, he was definitely including the Irish. I think he mentioned names and included Robbie & Kelly. But no big deal, it was just a careless remark, not a statement of imperial sovereignty! I've a pal from the north of England who maintains that I'm not "foreign". Of course he knows I'm Irish, but we also have a Belgian pal who knocks around with us and he definitely is "foreign". For example, my Belgian mate needs every cultural or regional nuance explained to him, and every reference to 70s English football or Boys From The Blackstuff or Brookside or whatever explained to him. In this context I don't take offence to not being seen as a foreigner & I think it's a similar benign context in which David Pleat refers to Robbie & co. as British. It's careless but not offensive in my opinion. Anyway, this is a total digression from the main thread :)

[livehead1]

I knew somebody would react to that :) Unjustified in IMHO though. I've no problem with the use of the term "British Isles". Last year Pleat said Spurs had more British players than anyone else. Now that was a careless comment. No malice in it though, not like the likes of the Daily Mail who still to this day refer to The British Lions. That old chestnut I suppose!
i think it may also have been pleat who said earlier this season how great it was to have a team playing at that level and the whole starting 11 to be british. Even though Alan Dunne and Barry Cogan were playing. If i'm wrong and it wasn't pleat, i apologise, but it was said.

[livehead1]

Yeah, he was definitely including the Irish. I think he mentioned names and included Robbie & Kelly. But no big deal, it was just a careless remark, not a statement of imperial sovereignty! I've a pal from the north of England who maintains that I'm not "foreign". Of course he knows I'm Irish, but we also have a Belgian pal who knocks around with us and he definitely is "foreign". For example, my Belgian mate needs every cultural or regional nuance explained to him, and every reference to 70s English football or Boys From The Blackstuff or Brookside or whatever explained to him. In this context I don't take offence to not being seen as a foreigner & I think it's a similar benign context in which David Pleat refers to Robbie & co. as British. It's careless but not offensive in my opinion. Anyway, this is a total digression from the main thread :)
whether it is offensive or not is certainly down to personal opinion. With every type of offence, there will be those who are offended, and those who are not.

[Stuttgart88]

how great it was to have a team playing at that level and the whole starting 11 to be british. At what level? Millwall's? My, how their standards have fallen :)

[livehead1]

At what level? Millwall's? My, how their standards have fallen :)
yeh, they must be desperate if they have 11 'brits' playing! :D

[Bungle]

barrett had two career threatening injuries during a period at arsenal,when he was beginning to make the first team squad.i recall Wenger saying that Barrett was a player that "could replace Dennis(Bergkamp)".He captained an outstanding Arsenal youth team to victory in the F.A Youth Cup where no less a judge than Brian Glanville said he was the best player on the pitch by a distance and that he looked an Arsenal player in waiting.Graham's situation before he got injured,reminds me of that of Stokes's now.Both are top class for their age,but are at a club,that can spend 15 million in an instant.
There is a very valid point to be made about joining clubs like Ipswich or Norwich over Arsenal or Chelsea.

[ken foree]

never seen garvan play but pleat's assessment that he has the distinction from other players born on "them two islands" to be able to shield and create time and space for himself unhurriedly is, i hope, very very true. :D god how cool it would be to have another passer/creator a la brady

[paul_oshea]

ok well sorry for digressing again but just back on browsing and in reference to whether its a geographical rather than a political and in relation to stuts point, here is a mail i received from a mate of mine, who is an ipswich fan and was born and bred in east anglia:

"Look mate you should know the rules the media use by now. If an Irish man is a ‘good’ Irish man then he is from the British Isles; if he is a ‘bad’ Irish man then he is from Ireland"

[geysir]

god how cool it would be to have another passer/creator a la brady
He has already been cursed with the Brady comparison, so far there has been no recovery.

[ken foree]

He has already been cursed with the Brady comparison, so far there has been no recovery.

i'm not so late to the garvan gala that i haven't read the brady comparisons before and nor do i see anything wrong in hoping for the boy to become his successor

[SeanieBoy]

Is the British Isles not a geographical term like the Irish Sea as opposed to a political one?

"Due to the implications of the use of the adjective British, this nomenclature is not universally accepted, even within the archipelago"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

[Irish_Praha]

Wikipedia :eek:
It's possible to for any Tom, Dick or Harry to edit the pages on there, be very careful about using it as a reference.

Look here, that page has been changed 50 times in the last weeks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges

[Plastic Paddy]

Boys and girls, I'm as sensitive to this particular naming issue as anyone around here (I prefer IONA myself ;) ) but any more discussion of this ilk in this thread and I'll have to get the mod scissors out. Back on topic please. :)

:ball: PP

[geysir]

i'm not so late to the garvan gala that i haven't read the brady comparisons before and nor do i see anything wrong in hoping for the boy to become his successor
As long as you don't see anything wrong if he just turns out to be Owen Garvan playing pro football in the 2nd tier alongside Stephen Mc Phaill :)

[ken foree]

As long as you don't see anything wrong if he just turns out to be Owen Garvan playing pro football in the 2nd tier alongside Stephen Mc Phaill :)

not at all, why would i

[Stuttgart88]

Jokes aside Geysir, I think Garvan already has far more of a physical presence than McPhail which augurs well.

[livehead1]

Jokes aside Geysir, I think Garvan already has far more of a physical presence than McPhail which augurs well.
mcphail is playing well in a very physical league, i dont think it was his build, more his desire.

[Kingdom]

mcphail is playing well in a very physical league, i dont think it was his build, more his desire.

Or maybe we just hype any youngfella with a bit of talent up unbelievably so, and they aren't as good as we actually thought they were?

[geysir]

Jokes aside Geysir, I think Garvan already has far more of a physical presence than McPhail which augurs well.
Probably that's why he has also been dubbed the next Stephen Gerrard.
Jokes aside, he must be close to the ultimate prize, the call from Stan to join the national squad.

[Dodge]

Or maybe we just hype any youngfella with a bit of talent up unbelievably so, and they aren't as good as we actually thought they were?
Richie Patridge? Thomas Morgan? Graham Barratt?

Happens everytime. Totally unfair on the lads.

[youngirish]

Richie Patridge? Thomas Morgan? Graham Barratt?

Happens everytime. Totally unfair on the lads.

Totally unfair on them because none ever got close to a look in at the senior side so why they were hyped up I'll never know . Garvan at least has shown this season that he is one of Ipswich's most consistent and talented first team performers which is far more than the aforementioned ever achieved.

At the moment though he is far from the finished product and needs to improve if he is to be successful at a higher level.

Also I don't see though why Garvan is hyped up far more than Supple or Chris McCann both playing well at the same age and in the same league. Over time I see Supple as developing into the better player.

[Stuttgart88]

Also I don't see though why Garvan is hyped up far more than Supple or Chris McCann both playing well at the same age and in the same league. Over time I see Supple as developing into the better player.In fairness, Garvan's performances have been the most notable so far. Chris McCann has only recently been a first team regular at Burnley. I also think there are certain positions that youth isn't necessarily a hindrance, but for a teenager to be able to dictate a game in central midfield - as Garvan has done on a few occasions - is more remarakable than a teenage goalkeeper playing some good games in my opinion. I actually think Supple's form has dipped a little lately but he's a very talented keeper.

[livehead1]

In fairness, Garvan's performances have been the most notable so far. Chris McCann has only recently been a first team regular at Burnley. I also think there are certain positions that youth isn't necessarily a hindrance, but for a teenager to be able to dictate a game in central midfield - as Garvan has done on a few occasions - is more remarakable than a teenage goalkeeper playing some good games in my opinion. I actually think Supple's form has dipped a little lately but he's a very talented keeper.

i have no doubt that supple and garvan will play at a higher standard than they are at the moment, supple has looked outstanding on a regular basis and has kept lewis price out of the side, price , i think, is a full wales international so he is doing great, as is garvan.

[tricky_colour]

http://www.charlton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=14279

"Probably not needing his Sat Nav for the drive up the A12 to Portman Road, Curbishley was apparently at Town's game against Hull City on Saturday to cast his eye over youngsters Owen Garvan and Shane Supple, as well as experienced defender Jason De Vos."

[livehead1]

Livehead, to digress a little: how has John Thompson being doing at Forest lately? Any chance he'll step up a level? It all looked so good when Forest nearly went up a few years ago, with Thompson making a big contribution & sometimes from midfield.
not even a regular at forest, when i have seen him he is OK from rightback but i think we can forget about him becoming an ireland regular, i think he has a cap though, he won't add to it.

[ken foree]

well i hardly think that me hoping for the best for ireland's midfield and garvan in general can be construed as hyping, if any of them posts were implying. message board reality vs. the guardian newspaper ffs!

[tetsujin1979]

not even a regular at forest, when i have seen him he is OK from rightback but i think we can forget about him becoming an ireland regular, i think he has a cap though, he won't add to it.
He does, he came on as a sub VS Canada a few years ago, the same game Andy Reid made his debut in. What I think ended his international career was that he was the only player in the squad for the Romania and Unity Cup games and never got to play. I remember Brian Kerr commenting that he used 22 out of 23 players in the 3 games (Romania, Nigeria and Jamaica), he was the 23rd

[youngirish]

What I think ended his international career was that he was the only player in the squad for the Romania and Unity Cup games and never got to play.

I'd say not getting a regular game for a terrible Notts Forest team in the lower leagues of English football probably done more to end his International career.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd say not getting a regular game for a terrible Notts Forest team in the lower leagues of English football probably done more to end his International career.
I meant that being the only player who didn't get a game in the 3 games did not bode well for his international future