View Full Version : Who does the NLSA represent
Gareth
27/02/2006, 9:34 AM
As I said on the Shels board, should the NLSA have the power to speak for all clubs supporters groups when it does not contain members from each club? The group meeting comprises of two UCD supporters? Surely it should max contain one member from a club? I really didn't know anything about this group until now.
How do you know that there are not Shels supporters in NLSA?
Gareth
27/02/2006, 9:53 AM
Cos I read that it comprised of fans from Derry, UCD, Harps and Rovers
Poor Student
27/02/2006, 9:59 AM
Gareth, something comprises something, not comprises of something.
Dodge
27/02/2006, 10:09 AM
Maybe the committe does but AFAIK there was a big turnout at the first meeting (I know the Independent Saints rep went and was impressed)
Gareth
27/02/2006, 10:32 AM
Dodge, then I am mistaken. I just read it incorporates 14 out of 22 supportters clubs and shels is not one of the 14 so that would explain my lack of knowledge on this so.
As for Poor Student, yeah cheers for the english lesson.
A face
27/02/2006, 11:29 AM
Gareth .... to be honest, while most clubs are represented in the NLSA, i actually think that your comment is totally out of order (i'm not attacking you now, just the comment. And not just you, anyone else that makes it) The NLSA is in its infancy still, imo i think the obligation is on clubs supporters groups to come forward at this stage and subscribe to it, and support the NLSA. Its those groups that will make the NLSA, it needs those groups opinions to evolve. And that fact that some clubs aren't represented at this stage shows those clubs up more for their lack of activity, its not like they didn't have an opportunity to get involved. It was never a secret or anything.
Dodge
27/02/2006, 11:33 AM
BTW Shels official supporters club is IMO far too close to the club. There's no way they'd be involved in any independent supporters group
Gareth
27/02/2006, 11:37 AM
don't consider you are attacking me. Which comment by the way or just the whole tone of my post. I just think if a body is to represent a body of supporters, they should indicate which body they are representing. Its normal enough. I misread at the start and thought it was made up of 4 clubs which I thought was madness if they were representing the entire body of supporters. I have since been corrected on this. the fact 2 committee members(out of 5 is it) are from UCD surprised me, is all.
By the way I am not involved with the Shelbourne Supporters Club. Oh and I am not on the attack here at all, open to hearing more about all this, so Dodge and A Face, I hope you don't see me on the defensive or attacking anybody!!!
Dodge
27/02/2006, 11:44 AM
Not at all, Gareth. I'm not involved with NLSA in anyway BTW
A face
27/02/2006, 12:11 PM
By the way I am not involved with the Shelbourne Supporters Club. Oh and I am not on the attack here at all, open to hearing more about all this, so Dodge and A Face, I hope you don't see me on the defensive or attacking anybody!!!
No worries fella ... being honest i was on the defensive alright. Sorry 'bout that !!
Gareth
27/02/2006, 12:22 PM
Group hug :)
Nah fair play to the people involved, but it is important that if they say they represent the fans of all clubs that there are representives from each club involved, otherwise they are not representing the entire support and would need to amend the name? What you think?
tiktok
27/02/2006, 12:32 PM
I'm a member of the NLSA, I know that there's no formal link up between the CCOSC and the NLSA, though I do know that the intentions (at least on the CCOSC's part) are to discuss this soon.
I agree with Gareth to an extent, the NLSA isn't in a position to speak on behalf of EL fans yet, my understanding is that membership is based almost entirely among the 14 clubs that took up the EL allocation offer, and I can't speak for everyone, but while I think the bulk of the meeting minutes are encouraging, the thread on this subject in the Cork City forums was the first mention I'd heard of it. As a member, an email telling me this was happening and looking for comments and/or questions might have been nice.
green-blood
01/03/2006, 9:45 AM
be very carefull lads, the intentions of the NLSA group are fantactic, but you do not have a mandate from all football fans. you dont get to speak on behalf of anyone other than those affiliated.
If the FAI want an overall fans association, let them establish, fund and support one. Offering affiliation to teh individual fans groups.
"I just read it incorporates 14 out of 22 supportters club" but this is not enough, most clubs have more than one suporters club/association/loose grouping. you cannot claim to represent 14 football clubs fans. Even though this is exactly what teh FAI want. There after tehy only need ring up the NLSA chairman tell him the plan for this that ot the other and cliam to have consulted with all the Eircom leagu fans
dont be used.
good luck.
A face
01/03/2006, 10:00 AM
Lads, imo i cant ever see the FAI starting a fans group, not as long as they have Alan Hunter to wheel out for every crisis and depict fans as a collective of bundling morons.
The NLSA should act as a lobby group, it should represent its members, you cant expect them to worry about people who aren't members (and aren't members of any other either) .... its basically the people who step forward.
A face
01/03/2006, 10:04 AM
There after they only need ring up the NLSA chairman tell him the plan for this that to the other and cliam to have consulted with all the Eircom league fans
There is no way they can claim that ... not a chance. I know they do it now with Alan Hunter but he hasn't a clue what he is saying from what i can gather and he is hardly going to say he doesn't represent all the fans. He is about to march in Dublin Castle with his 40,000 fellow members any day now demanding to have the use of Croker.
This is bollóx lads. If the Shels Supporters Club joins, how can the NLSA claim to represent the Shels supporters not in their supporters club or the nlsa?
The nlsa can only claim to represent it's members. If it's the only group in town then wtf are people giving out about. If 14 out 22 clubs are represented, shame on those not, not on the nlsa.
Christ, one meeting, of the first group to get going in years to represent eL fans and the back biting fookin starts. However, the committee should take on board greenbloods comments about getting used. They should be very wise to the way Delaney and Co operate.
green-blood
02/03/2006, 6:39 PM
NLSA = Hunter as far as the FAI are concerned, this is exactly what they want. Its not indeope ndent its being driven, directed, steered whateve you want to call it, its only a matter of ftime until some PR officer is making statements to teh press about this fans body or that fans body or bad language on the terraces.
Its toothless, pointless and sure as long as they give us some intenational tickets sure hey we're happy, thank yi master, thank yi....
You could always get involved and stop this happening green-blood...
Sheridan
02/03/2006, 7:18 PM
NLSA = Hunter as far as the FAI are concerned, this is exactly what they want. Its not indeope ndent its being driven, directed, steered whateve you want to call it, its only a matter of ftime until some PR officer is making statements to teh press about this fans body or that fans body or bad language on the terraces.
Its toothless, pointless and sure as long as they give us some intenational tickets sure hey we're happy, thank yi master, thank yi....
You know what I think would be more effective? Bitching about stuff on the internet!
(Or more appositely, given the allegiance of this naysayer, issuing hysterical press releases every five minutes which might as well read simply "Wolf.")
I'm neither involved in nor a particularly ardent supporter of the NLSA, but an organisation which could effectively counter the negative spin imparted unchallenged to coverage of the eircom League is urgently required. Give it a chance.
I agree on one matter though - there are two separate, irreconcilable strands of football "culture" in this country, one represented by the "national team" and one by the national league. International ticketing allocations should be the least of our concerns.
A face
02/03/2006, 9:31 PM
We are on the second page now and no one has suggested an alternative .... i say we devote this page to it so then !!
Right lads ... lets be havin' ya !!
Suggestions !!
Gareth
02/03/2006, 9:43 PM
Request for the backing of all Supoorters clubs. Those not willing to be part of this then are not and the NLSA clearly identify who they represent, simple.
A face
02/03/2006, 9:51 PM
Request for the backing of all Supoorters clubs. Those not willing to be part of this then are not and the NLSA clearly identify who they represent, simple.
To my knowledge, that is exactly what is being done !!
Gareth
02/03/2006, 10:52 PM
Well then, yay :) Its all going to plan so. Carry on.
NY Hoop
03/03/2006, 2:37 PM
NLSA = Hunter as far as the FAI are concerned, this is exactly what they want. Its not indeope ndent its being driven, directed, steered whateve you want to call it, its only a matter of ftime until some PR officer is making statements to teh press about this fans body or that fans body or bad language on the terraces.
Its toothless, pointless and sure as long as they give us some intenational tickets sure hey we're happy, thank yi master, thank yi....
GB surprised at this attitude to be honest. Unlike Hunter we have met the FAI and do represent fans and are not delusional. We have issued press releases inviting ANYBODY interested to our launch. This was posted on websites at the time.
It is totally and completely independent and transparent. To say otherwise is a put down to the ordinary EL fans who dedicate time to this. I can give you names if you want from both sides.
It is far from toothless and pointless. In fact the FAI/EL have contacted us on occasions on issues other than international tickets. Our PRO has already issued statements DENOUNCING the new league measures. Hardly been "steered" is it?
We were invited to the league launch this afternoon where we met John Delaney. Maybe irrelevant to some but they are listening I can assure you.
Incredibly I agree with Sheridan here! And that is the reason I got involved. Why not actually be a part of something that will get results for the league instead of bitching about the FAI/EL on the net?
KOH
green-blood
06/03/2006, 11:20 AM
sorry lads been there, done that, run into teh brick wall, beat my head on it for a while and realised sanity comes first.
best of luck of course, and I really really really hope this wont come true, but if you are still going in 18 months witha ny influence whatsoever I'll be very suprised.
A face
06/03/2006, 3:41 PM
sorry lads been there, done that, run into teh brick wall, beat my head on it for a while and realised sanity comes first.
best of luck of course, and I really really really hope this wont come true, but if you are still going in 18 months with any influence whatsoever I'll be very suprised.
GB ..... if in 18 months it is running with influence will you get involved at that stage?
What do you want to achieve the first time around and where did it all fall down?
What does it have to achieve for it to be ok or worth it in your opinion?
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 5:34 PM
Have to say I'm very much in agreement with Green Blood on this - NLSA strikes me very much as a quango.
Shels had only very recently withdrawn from the Lansdowne Road eL ticket scheme when NLSA was formed. I was the Shels rep in that scheme and I would have been very easy to get in touch with either through soccercental or ShelsWeb, but we were deliberately left out.
MariborKev
06/03/2006, 5:45 PM
Fintan,
Messages were left on Shelsweb inviting Shels fans to NLSA meetings.
If you chose not to attend.........
But hey, blame the NLSA for that too.
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 6:22 PM
a couple of general messages were posted yes - but this was well after you had gotten together. It you were serious about including Shels - you would have contacted us directly throught the eL ticket scheme at the time.
soccerc
06/03/2006, 6:28 PM
a couple of general messages were posted yes - but this was well after you had gotten together. It you were serious about including Shels - you would have contacted us directly throught the eL ticket scheme at the time.
Fintan, I'll beg to differ but am not going to get involved in a who said, he said, I said debate online.
Either PM me or call as my recollection of events and invites differs!!
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 6:33 PM
This was the first I heard of NLSA - after they were formed.
http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?p=54313&highlight=#54313
pineapple stu
06/03/2006, 6:36 PM
Mod edit : I have copied this in from the other thread as it is need here too
_________________________________________________
Just to clear up a couple of issues (not narked at the criticism or anything, but just want to give feedback) -
1) The 14 clubs mentioned are those who were involved in the FAI ticketing scheme in the North Terrace. We don't mean to imply that the 8 others are specifically taking a non-supportive stance. The various reps have been pointed to the NLSA reps forum where they can post their views.
2) A letter is being sent out to SCs of all clubs shortly (just gathering together contact details, in fact, and it's ready to go; anyone with an SC contact e-mail or address, PM me and I'll add it). This will formally invite SCs to join, point out how to make your opinions heard, nominate a rep, etc. I would imagine this could become a sticky thread on club forums or something to keep pit in fans' minds. As A face pointed out, the NLSA is in its infancy, but the hope is that with the clubs' backing, the NLSA can make some sort of impact.
3) The make-up of the committee is irrelevant. Granted, you just have my word for it, but the committee is trying to act for the best interests of league fans in general, not for the benefit of their individual clubs. That's the point of a committee.
4) The next things on the horizon for us would be a meeting with the FAI in about April and a submission to the FAI on the new league structure. (Both these items are mentioned in the minutes). The letter mentioned above specifically mentions these items and invites views.
5) I'll acknowledge the feedback at the moment hasn't been the best. All the committee members are voluntary, etc, etc, bleeding heart and what have you. The website and the forum have been a nightmare because the server provider keeps crashing.
Hopefully things on this front will become clearer once the letter goes out. At the moment, we have a grouping whom the FAI appear very happy to sit in the same room with as we talk, at the very least. We were invited to the league launch during the week, when, as NY Hoop mentions, John Delaney specifically asked to have a quick word and say that he hoped this would move on from ticketing issues (our intention as well).
_____________________________________________
Fintan,
The list of ticket allocations given to us by the FAI at our initial meeting with them did not include Shelbourne. However, if you want to PM me an e-mail for the Shels Supporters' Club, we will, as mentioned on this thread already, be in touch shortly to sort you out and get you on board.
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 6:47 PM
Fintan,
The list of ticket allocations given to us by the FAI at our initial meeting with them did not include Shelbourne. However, if you want to PM me an e-mail for the Shels Supporters' Club, we will, as mentioned on this thread already, be in touch shortly to sort you out and get you on board.
The new committee for the 2006 season hasn't been elected yet, but I'm PRO on the outgoing committee - btw, my email & mobile no. was published every week in the Herald Fan Club Notes every Wednesday last year.
Shelbourne are one of the leading clubs in the eL and I find it extraordinary that they were not invited last year at the time of formation, to be one of the founding members of a national supporters association for the eL.
pineapple stu
06/03/2006, 6:55 PM
But you just posted a link to a thread where they were invited!
I don't get the Herald.
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 6:56 PM
But you just posted a link to a thread where they were invited!
I don't get the Herald.
Yes - AFTER you were formed
pineapple stu
06/03/2006, 7:01 PM
I'll say it again - Shels were not on the list of SCs given to us as being involved in the North Terrace scheme.
Nothing of note happened between June and October, when the thread was dated. In fact, the whole thing pretty much died away (we quickly put together a submission for Genesis, which many of the reps participated in, but that was it. We would have thrown the net further, but we were told Genesis were finalising their report when the FAI first informed us of it). I sent a text around to a few people who'd been involved in the Israel ticket-gate to get together for a meeting in mid-August (before the Ireland-Italy game, in fact) to see if we could get the whole thing going again. Even then, there was a delay in getting anything going - pretty much until the time of the thread above in fact.
If you take the NLSA as being concerned with more than just the North Terrace take-up, then that was really our starting point. And you were fully informed. Realistically, we're not going to get going properly until we have as many people as possible formally affiliated with us - and you're being informed of that as well.
Poor Student
06/03/2006, 7:01 PM
Fintan, I must say you're behaving rather pompous and petty. Rather than wait for the NLSA to come to you, could you not make contact with it? If you're going to insist that you only found out after its formation, is your ego really that frail that you won't just go ahead and join it? The whole point of the NLSA is submerging personal interests for wider ones.
soccerc
06/03/2006, 7:15 PM
Lads
Could the last ten or so posts be deleted.
Silly squabbles like this should not be in the public domain.
The PM facility of is there and should be used.
JB
Buile Shuibhne
06/03/2006, 7:19 PM
Nothing to do with me personally - it's just that in recent years I'd have been one of the more prominent Shels fans on the net/media
No one in Shels know about the NLSA until October, which again I find extraordinary given the clubs prominence.
If you're serious about eventually getting in touch with the missing clubs - try looking up this Wednesday's Herald. I'm far from a fan of the rag, but for years it's been a well known reference point for all supporters club
Roverstillidie
06/03/2006, 11:08 PM
with resect fintan, fans of most other clubs 'found out' about the NLSA. this seems at worst like crossed wires, not a conspiracy to keep you out.
deep breaths there fintan
Nothing to do with me personally - it's just that in recent years I'd have been one of the more prominent Shels fans on the net/media
:rolleyes: You were invited to join, you haven't, but you won't because you weren't in from the start. Grow up.
NY Hoop
07/03/2006, 11:30 AM
The NLSA will appear in wednesday the 15th herald fans page.
GB you sound frustrated so why dont join?! Were you involved in NLU?
Fintan with all due respect we are not an ego trip. The NLSA is open to ALL EL fans and SCs. The link you posted up was to invite ANYONE interested to attend that open meeting in October. If you were so concerned why didnt you show?
KOH
Buile Shuibhne
07/03/2006, 12:19 PM
I'm concerned that a group of people falsely purporting to represent all or even a majority of eL supporters, made a submission to Genesis and met with the FAI, on behalf of eL supporters, when clearly they had no such mandate to do so.
Bald Student
07/03/2006, 1:06 PM
On that last point, I'd be more concerned that Genesis didn't consult more widely in general but that's probably wandering off topic.
They do represent a group of eL fans. They are the only national eL fans grouping. What exactly is the problem? The fact that some people are too stubborn or lazy to join doesn't change that fact. Would you rather that no eL fans had had meetings with the FAI or made submissions to Genisis? Because if you take out the nlsa contribution, you are left with nothing.
Mind you, I suppose the Shels supporters club has direct access to the top of the FAI these days anyway, given the relationship between Ollie and Delaney. It certainly raises the question of whether some clubs have an agenda in discrediting the nlsa.
NY Hoop
07/03/2006, 2:17 PM
I'm concerned that a group of people falsely purporting to represent all or even a majority of eL supporters, made a submission to Genesis and met with the FAI, on behalf of eL supporters, when clearly they had no such mandate to do so.
I'm concerned that this ollie talking
KOH
I'm concerned that a group of people falsely purporting to represent all or even a majority of eL supporters, made a submission to Genesis and met with the FAI, on behalf of eL supporters, when clearly they had no such mandate to do so.
Spot on, totally agree with that. It basically echos the sentiments of a lot of City fans I spoke with last week.
NY Hoop
07/03/2006, 3:47 PM
Have you talked to A Face? As he says what is the alternative? Sit and bang away on a keyboard or join a fans group with a say?
We have met the FAI/EL and they want our contribution. There is no conspiracy. As Macy says I fail to see the problem.
KOH
Poor Student
07/03/2006, 3:57 PM
Those of you moaning. Why not join the NLSA, get in contact with its organisers and attend its meetings? You can join it and make it yours too.
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