McCarthy leaves Sunderland

[Stuttgart88]

Just announced - no details

[Poor Student]

Before anyone starts, I don't want to see the Roy Keane debate appear in this thread. Analyse his time at Sunderland but don't get into the Ireland thing.

[gustavo]

He was sacked:(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/4778496.stm

[OwlsFan]

It had to come. I suspect they didn't want to pay him off so that's why it took so long. He'll do a good job for another Championship team. They deserved to get something out of the game against Man City but their defending was poor.

Best of luck Mick wherever you go.

[tetsujin1979]

Feel a bit sorry for him, very little cash to spend and won the Championship with some frankly rubbish players. Was never going to stay up with that team and had to take a fall. I reckon there's few if any managers would have done better. Best of luck to him in the future

[Macy]

Haven't really followed developments in depth, but it seems harsh if it wasn't his choice to go the route of sticking with what he had rather than splash out. The fact that he was sacked obviously raises questions whether it was a board policy or his own, or his inability to attract the right people.

One thing though, despite the obvious big reduction when they got relegated the last time, as far as I'm aware Sunderland always had a top range Championship/Division 2/ Division one (delete as applicable to your age :) ) playing budget. I think his ability to get promotion on a tight budget was somewhat overplayed by elements of the media.

[blobbyblob]

I have to disagree. He did nothing to stop the rot. His whole attitude was defeatist since the begining of the season. Regardless of what level you are playing at, this midset trickles down into a team and will be reflected in the results.

He said that he didnt come up to the Premiership to sit back and not have a go and indeed he didnt. At his pearl. This attitude is foolhardy and Id say over the course of a whole season the Sunderland fans would have been happy enough to sit back if it meant being closer to some sort of battle for survival.

He was proud of his players after every game. This counts for little. It will take the club a long time to bounce back from this.

There was no consistancy in his selection process and the players that didnt deliver were rewarded with regular places.

Wigan or West Ham didnt spend huge fortunes when coming up to the Premiership but have done extremely well.

He should have went at Christmas. Pity the fool who takes his place.

[thejollyrodger]

Mod Edit: Make a sensible post or don't at all.

[Over the post]

He obviously did a great job getting them promoted but made a hash of trying to keep them there. I understand a tight budget giving him limited room for maneuvre but are Sunderland that badly off financially compared to the other Premiership newcomers?

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Best of luck to Mick in whatever he does after this experience. A gentleman and one of the most honest people in football.

[anto1208]

a nice bloke maybe but a rubbish manager , first div at best 10 points all season very poor . cant see the point of sacking him though whats a new manager going to do if they go on a great run they may not set a new record for the lowest points total ever of 17 !!

[the ox]

You have to remember it's not all about transfer funds, it's about wage budgets too. And I can't imagine he had a particularly big one (Kelvin Davis, Jon Stead and Andy Gray can't have wanted too much) but West Ham had Yossi Benyaoun and Wigan had Henri Camara (both on a hell of a lot more than the Black Cats' lads, one would imagine).
Obviously the three signings I mentioned above for Sunderland proved to be less than successful but if you only have a small amount of money to spend you're not going to get class (generally, obviously players like Kevin Doyle are an exception).
I doubt any manager could have kept them up (maybe got them more points, but not kept them up) with the players he had and the resources. He was also unlucky that their biggest goal threat (Steven Elliott) has been out for a large chunk of the season.
And it was obvious that they had half an eye on next season's Championship campaign with their squad but it's a shame that they aren't giving McCarthy a chance to get them back up again (they could have made their decision if he had failed then this time next year).
I just hope he doesn't struggle to get another job now. He did a very good job with Ireland (just compare us under Mick to under Brian Kerr), and to get Sunderland promoted in the first place. I just hope this season hasn't recked his chances of getting another job.

[Soko]

Any one see what Gary Breen got sent off for? If you've got planks like that in your team then you haven't got a hope in hell. He still did very little to stop the rot and seemed to be consigned to relegation in August. Even blamed the chairman for not spending more money, not a good move.

[OwlsFan]

Any one see what Gary Breen got sent off for? If you've got planks like that in your team then you haven't got a hope in hell. He still did very little to stop the rot and seemed to be consigned to relegation in August.

Surprised Sky didn't blame the ref for not showing "common sense! :rolleyes: Madness ok as they were chasing an equaliser. Losing becomes a habit and that's why good friendly results for Ireland are important. A whole season so far plus a good few games from the previous season in the Premiership without a league home win. I am very sad for Mick but it was inevitable. Listening to his voice booming across the City of Manchester stadium yesterday reminded me of old times.

[Condex]

About time, nice man but didn't make much of a fist at keeping the team in the premiership:(

[Hither green]

I feel a bit sorry for him actually, he took over a team with enormous debts and a dodgy side and rebuilt them into a side that won promotion. I agree that he never really came to terms with building a premiership side, especially compared to West Ham and Wigan, but with his transfer funds and wage constraints.... Fine they've gone straight back down but so what, he got them an unexpected promotion in the first place. This year must have done great things for their finances, plus next years parachute payments..... Many teams have built themselves up into secure clubs having yo-yoed for a couple of years.

What's the point in changing now anyway. Nobody can save them. Next year they know they'll need a good Championship manager, which they've got but instead they'll have to take a risk on someone else taking over.

[bluemovie]

It's almost pointless sacking him now. Seemingly, they're going to appoint a caretaker until the summer and then look for a new manager so it's not even as if the new manager has the last 10 games to settle in. Murray should have bitten the bullet long ago and sacked him. It was clear from October that they had no hope of survival. I feel sorry for Mick, but he can't blame lack of funds really because Charlton bought Darren Bent for only a little more than he paid for Stead. Andy Gray was muck too. It leaves several Irish players in a delicate position now....Elliott, Lawrence, Breen, Daryl and Joe Murphy.

[lofty9]

Good championship manager/bad premiership manager? You need a budget to work in the premier league - as stated his budget was limited. He worked miracles to get Sunderland to the premier league. I'm sure Mourinhno would struggle with the budget Mc Carthy had. For me his problem lay in the fact that McCarthy refused to change his footballing principles, willing his team to play good football, refusing to adopt a win at all cost mentality, whilst adhering to a passing game rather than the long ball game to get results. There wasn't enough of his own playing character in his team, it was lacking bite and leaders on the field.

[Hither green]

Sunderland midfielder Liam Lawrence criticised the board's decision to sack Mick McCarthy with 10 games left this season.
"Things could have been done at Christmas. I don't understand the timing, it's come at the wrong time for us," Lawrence told Sky Sports.
"All the lads are gutted. When we were told it was a bad atmosphere, everyone was gutted and there was a lot of upset people in there.
"We were all behind Mick. A lot of the lads owe a lot to him."

[finlma]

McCarthy's Premiership Record as a manager:

Played: 37
Won: 2
Drew: 4
Lost: 31

Says it all really. He doesn't have what it takes to be a successful manager.

[OwlsFan]

He doesn't have what it takes to be a successful manager.

A World Cup qualification and 2 play offs and a promotion with Sunderland. Depends on your definition of "success". He hasn't been a success with Sunderland in the Premiership but he has been relatively successful elsewhere. Think he also did well at Millwall.

[jebus]

Sad to see him go to be honest. Fact is Sunderland shouldn't have been good enough last season to promotion, and they were NEVER going to be good enough to stay up this season. I think his sacking had more to do with the falling out McCarthy had with the chairman then anything else

[Hither green]

McCarthy's Premiership Record as a manager:

Played: 37
Won: 2
Drew: 4
Lost: 31

Says it all really. He doesn't have what it takes to be a successful manager.

So a manager can only be successful in the premiership can he? The 30 odd wins in his 70-odd Ireland games don't count? Or the 30-odd wins in last years Championship or the similar number of wins in the previous year don't count either? Didn't he also take an average Millwall into the playoffs? I guess none of that counts, he's failed with an average Sunderland side struggling with debt in one of the strongest leagues in the world, must be a terrible manager.

[drinkfeckarse]

Feel a bit sorry for him, very little cash to spend and won the Championship with some frankly rubbish players. Was never going to stay up with that team and had to take a fall. I reckon there's few if any managers would have done better. Best of luck to him in the future

Agree totally with that, although signing John Stead confused me:D

[Hulsey]

Don't see the point off sacking him now. If it was me I would have waited till the season was over.

[Ozymandias]

Didn't he also take an average Millwall into the playoffs? .


When was this..that milwall team were nearly relegated.....they went into freefall when he was been touted as the next ireland manager.........


I don't agree it wastotally down to a budget that he failed..the system he played was to have a go but the players did not look comfortable in it and they looked disorganised...that has nothing to do with budgets......I also think that being relegated wasn't going to annoy the sunderland fans but the fact they never even looked like staying up. They haven't even competed that is the problem. 2 wins both away from home..no win at the stadium of light...

[Hither green]

When was this..that milwall team were nearly relegated.....they went into freefall when he was been touted as the next ireland manager.........

I'm no fan of Millwall but according to www.millwall-history.co.uk his record was as follows:

1991-2: 15th
1992-3: 7th
1993-4: 3rd
1994-5: 12th
1995-6: 9th (after 29 games)

As they were relegated in that final season, the freefall must have happened after he left, so maybe he did a good job holding things together.

In fact maybe we'll see something similar with Sunderland and they'll suddenly plummet. :D

[pete]

McCarthys record at Milwall was nothing special so he was very inexperienced when started for Ireland. Hes done a good job at Sunderland with players who are very average & will struggle in the Championship. They might have tight budget but Stead was his big purchase & has failed badly. 1 decent forward might have saved Sunderland who seem to be fairly unlucky losing by the odd goal but as they say losing is a habit.

[thejollyrodger]

I wanted to Slate Mc Carthy on this thread but wasnt allowed to . I still have a low opinion of him.

[Macy]

Was Sunderlands budget in the Championship that tight though? I still recall it being one of the highest in the division, despite the spin put on it.

[Block G Raptor]

Great player/Captain.Sh!t Manager
good riddance dont think he'll get another job too easily

[bluemovie]

I think this thread should have stayed in the Ireland section because it directly affects several current or future Irish internationals - Elliott, Lawrence, Breen, Joe Murphy and Daryl Murphy. Elliott needs to stay in the Premiership so he should look for a move anyway. The same could be argued for Lawrence. Breen and the two Murphys may not figure in the new manager's plans. McCarthy always favoured Irish players (some said it was because he knew little else), it will be interesting to see how they fare without him.

[Ozymandias]

In fact maybe we'll see something similar with Sunderland and they'll suddenly plummet. :D


agree

[Roadend]

He walked the 1st division with a 1st division side, he's bottom of the premiership with a 1st division side. He must be a bad manager.

[Dillo]

Best of luck to Mick in whatever he does after this experience. A gentleman and one of the most honest people in football.


I echo those sentiments PM. If there were prizes for honesty and endeavour Mick would surely claim one. Farewell to a legend. Not the first time you wrote those words mind you! :)

[Clifford]

March 06, 2006
Man City report: So, farewell then, Mick McCarthy
A thoroughly decent man, who many of us hoped would be our manager for a long time.

I am not just saying this in retrospect, but the Man City game was the first game in which I can not remember the supporters singing any songs with Mick’s name in it. Probably just a coincidence but even those of us who liked Mick had grown weary.

His last game was not to be his most glorious. But then with the exception of the win at Boro (the win at West Brom even we knew was a dead cat bounce), there has been little Premiership happiness under Mick. He took a team that was frankly a disgrace – either overpaid lazy gits who had come for the money because no-one else wanted them or players who had made their names at Sunderland but had decided they wanted to be first off the sinking ship (no thought that if maybe they had put in the dedication we deserved maybe it wouldn’t be sinking). That team inevitably imploded but with almost nothing at his disposal he got us to third place and an FA Cup semi-final. Then building sensibly on that he had us winning the Championship easily.

After that it, it is hard to think of a single thing that went right. All the aspects of that were there at Man City on Sunday. A goalkeeper worse than two we have let go – Poom cos he was nacked, Myrhe because he didn’t look as good as Davis – at least in the eyes of their fellow professionals as well as Mick. Davis’ pass wasn’t to blame for Collins’ ****-up for the first goal but it hardly helped- he then seemed to dive out of the way of the very narrow-angled shot. No Stephen Wright – injured. Gerorge McCartney out all season and struggling to show anything like the player he is. Much too much faith being put in Breen, who started well with us but was already looking dodgy in the Championship winning side. Danny Collins, possibly a canny Championship player of the future but way out of his depth in the Prem. Lawrence a regular on the right wing – when he was not a regular in the Championship (and of course Delap actually started against City). Whitehead asked to pull the central midfield together when he was never really doing that last season – when we at least had the maturity of Robinson and the tenaciousness of Whitley. Miller has been invisible and Bascilla just looks like a taller, less effective Whitley. On the left Arca, who has been a hero for us over the last few years has been proving to himself and to any watching scouts that he is a great Championship player but not Premiership class. Up front Kyle, still nacked and trying to get back to match fitness, ditto Elliott. Stead a gamble that he could be the lower league and intial Prem player he was – but despite looking skillfull probably more suited to the Chmapionship, Gray panic buy because we couldn’t get the players we wanted.

Despite all of this, we yet again were not out-classed. That run of three terrible home games (Portsmouth, Birmingham and Villa), that really killed us off, apart we rarely have been. But yet again our ability to gift goals and inability to score sort of makes it hard to win a game (or even draw it).

Results are what counts and on that score McCarthy was a Premiership disaster. Nevertheless my philosophy is enjoy the good times when they come along. And Mick gave us some pretty good ones, so I wish him well.

Don’t really want to think much more about the City match. Don’t really want to think much about the future – it looks so bleak at present. The anger of the fans may well turn fully on Bob Murray now. I don’t like the abuse we as fans can give our own on occasions, so I hope things stay peaceful. However, no-one (including Bob – he has said as much) can deny that whatever yardstick one uses, Bob has failed. I know he wants to be out. I know that he is as passionate an SAFC supporter as any of us. For the sake of us all, including himself, he must double, triple, whatever his efforts to get someone in before close season – so that the new manager, whoever it might be can start with a new chairman/owner.

[JoeSemi]

Great player/Captain.Sh!t Manager
good riddance dont think he'll get another job too easily

Love the reasoning in that post Block G. Keep up the good work;)

Sad to see Mick go and have sympathy in the plight he found himself in at Sunderland. People question a poor budget, lack of tactical acumen, poor purchases, low wage structure, bad man-management skills, inconsistent team selection and many other factors. Some were present and some weren't under Mick's reign at Sunderland and we'll all have differeing opinions on which were and which weren't.

What cannot be questioned is the honesty, integrity and devotion he had to his job as manager at Sunderland, and Ireland. To say 'he'll never be a successful manager' is a ridiculous statement and one that must come from people who aren't too well informed on how football works.

Mick will hopefully take stock and look at what could have been done better, and come back a better manager. A better run club than Sunderland could happily employ Mick McCarthy as their manager and be confident in what the man will achieve, under the right circumstances.