Delaney-"All-Ireland league a possibility"

[Risteard]

from http://www.rte.ie
FAI Chief Executive John Delaney has claimed that an All-Ireland league is a possibility, but only if clubs from both sides of the border are in favour of it.

The ongoing success of the Setanta Sports Cup has led to suggestions that an All-Ireland League could happen and Delaney admitted that such a venture would be supported by the FAI if the Clubs want it.

Read more @ http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0224/delaneyj.html

edit - - -maybe this should be merged with the Royce thread.

I'd imagine you're in the minority feo123 but it would be naive to assume all IL clubs are for it.

[feo123]

hope this dosnt happen!
PS...delaneys a muppet!!!!!!

[A face]

hope this dosnt happen!
PS...delaneys a muppet!!!!!!

What doesn't happen? What do you want to see happening given there is so much debate over a merger?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Delaney being a muppet is reasonably accepted on here!

The issue of an All-Ireland League requires several elements to fall in place
1) The FAI and IFA have to agree to it in principle 2) An AIL management structure would need to be agreed and put in place
3) UEFA have to agree to it in principle 4) FIFA have to agree to it in principle 5) Enough clubs on both sides of the border have to agree to it in principle 6) Promotion and relegation
from the lower Divisions (preferably regionalised) would need to be agreed as well to enable teams to aspire to AIL status. 7) A major sponsor would be required, possibly someone not sponsoring football in either the IFA or FAI jurisdiction currently!

[BohDiddley]

Can an all-Ireland league happen without a merged national team?

[CollegeTillIDie]

The only country in Europe which currently has a national team but not their own National League is in fact Liechtenstein. So the answer is far from clear.

[feo123]

What doesn't happen? What do you want to see happening given there is so much debate over a merger?
hope theres no league merger! dont mind about the 2 national teams coming together though.....but not many of the northern ireland lads would get in our team!! maybe only davis, healy would get startin! :confused:

[CollegeTillIDie]

hope theres no league merger! dont mind about the 2 national teams coming together though.....but not many of the northern ireland lads would get in our team!! maybe only davis, healy would get startin! :confused:

Healy would be a cert, Maik Taylor would get the odd game and would be automatic back up keeper with Roy Carroll third choice. Plus one or two of the North's defenders might find themselves on the bench in an All-Ireland team!

[Risteard]

Monaco has a national league?
That who'd make an all-ireland team goes around in circles. N.Irl have been better than the republic before.
Anyway, back on topic.

[Block G Raptor]

Wont Happen Because at the moment there are 8 european places up for grabs on this Island that would be reduced to 4 in an all Ireland set up
Turkey's wont vote for Christmas

[CollegeTillIDie]

Monaco has a national league?
That who'd make an all-ireland team goes around in circles. N.Irl have been better than the republic before.
Anyway, back on topic.

Monaco is not a member of FIFA. And as far as one can ascertain does not have a National League. Gerrit who is an expert on non-FIFA member states might be able to elaborate!

[pete]

Wont Happen Because at the moment there are 8 european places up for grabs on this Island that would be reduced to 4 in an all Ireland set up
Turkey's wont vote for Christmas

Is Europe the be all & end all? Surely Europe is just a means of getting extra money & exposure to improve the leagues finances? If an All Ireland League improved the lot of clubs significantly then europe wouldn't be such a big deal.

[dcfcsteve]

Wont Happen Because at the moment there are 8 european places up for grabs on this Island that would be reduced to 4 in an all Ireland set up
Turkey's wont vote for Christmas

God - here we go again..... :rolleyes:

Block G - PLEASE read the "Jim Roddy thread to get a better grip on this issue.....

[crc]

What if there were two leagues of 8 teams each (1 North & 1 South), playing 14 games - i.e. much smaller versions of what exists at the moment. Seven from each would play in an all-Ireland league of 14 teams (26 games), the eighth would be relegated.

The small leagues would continue to decide the UEFA places, but then there would be a larger All-Ireland League aswell.

[Magicme]

Turkeys not voting for Christmas??? U mad?? What the feck have most of the club reps being doing the last few months!

Other problem I see is that NI dont have licensing and we cant force them to buy into it so what do we do? Drop our licensing after all the time money and energy spent getting clubs to gain licences??

Tis mad I tell ya.

[thomas]

Monaco have a pro team in the french league so I would assume the wouldn't be arsed playing international matches when the regularly challenge for titles as it is.

[thejollyrodger]

all all island league would be fantastic. Fair enough clubs in the south are obviously better at the MOMENT but supporters in the north are far better at supporting their clubs. Just ask anyone who has attended both leagues.

I think an all ireland league is 3-5 years away yet. We need Genesis completely implemented and the new league in the south has to be sorted out. I think a EL club will break into either the UEFA Cup or C.L group stages before we see an all island league.

[BohDiddley]

We need Genesis completely implemented ...
I don't think that's representative of what most supporters think.

[David]

Fair enough clubs in the south are obviously better at the MOMENT

What do you base this on?

[Strabane_Harp]

What do you base this on?

the fact that outside the top 3 the rest of the league is **** poor and a joke

[dcfcsteve]

What do you base this on?

I think this year's Setanta Cup will really expose the gulf in standards that exists north and south. There is a widespread feeling amongst EL fans that Linfield's victory last year was unexpected and broadly unreflective.

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins out of 4 starts against northern opponents - including our 3rd best team last year beating your current champions. Like I said, we'll have the definitive answer come end end of the tournament - but initial readings of the proverbial tea leaves aren't looking too good for the IL.....

[David]

the fact that outside the top 3 the rest of the league is **** poor and a joke

I would agree that on the whole the EL is better but that is not what his post said. It said that the EL teams are better at the minute which to me means that the best in EL are better than anything in IL which to me is debatable. I would say at the top level there is very little difference.

[David]

I think this year's Setanta Cup will really expose the gulf in standards that exists north and south. There is a widespread feeling amongst EL fans that Linfield's victory last year was unexpected and broadly unreflective.

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins - including our 3rd best team last year beating your champions of last year. Like I said, we'll know in April - but initial indications aren't great for the IL.

Time will tell....

So what you are saying is that if an EL team wins it this year then that is definative that they are the best team anywhere on the island but Linfield doing this last year didn't do this? Strange logic there.

[David]

Only one of the Northern entrants are any good - Linfield - and for a team galloping ahead in the league who haven't lost an IL match since biblical times, I'm sorry to say you're no great shakes. You looked very average against a Derry team lacking match fitness/sharpness, even though you were at home. You can claim that as an off day - but then a weak later your team shipped 3 goals to a very poor Glens side in the same competition.

Anyways - it's all just opinion at the moment. We'll know the real answer come April. Meanwhile - 8 games into this year's competition and no Irish League side has yet managed to record a victory against an EL team. EL clubs have, on the other hand, clocked-up 2 wins out of 4 starts against northern opponents - including our 3rd best team last year beating your current champions. Like I said, we'll have the definitive answer come end end of the tournament - but initial readings of the proverbial tea leaves aren't looking too good for the IL.....

Linfield played Derry City and held their own despite this being our second tough game in three days. Remember, if we were so poor, you could not break us down in open play so does not say much for you. As for leaking 3 against the Glens, our defence was all over the place. Our first choice right back was away with Northern Ireland under 21's, our second choice is injured which meant playing a centre half at right back which meant the whole defence lost its shape and confidence. Also one of those goals was as a result of the most ridiculous penalty you will ever see and another was when we were very harshly down to ten men.

[dcfcsteve]

So what you are saying is that if an EL team wins it this year then that is definative that they are the best team anywhere on the island but Linfield doing this last year didn't do this? Strange logic there.

Not at all. The debate here is about the quality of the leagues - not one team.

Last year's tournament proved fairly inconclusive in terms of which league OVERALL was the better. Linfield winning didn't change the OVERALL run of results. Regardless, it was still a surprising win for them over a team who are usually very good, but were in one of their weakest starts for years.

This year - even at this early stage - results seem to be suggesting a more conclusive OVERALL pattern than last year. EL teams beating IL teams, IL teams struggling to win and at best recording draws. As the tournament progresses, that 'for' and 'against' tally will doubtless change, but I fully expect the trend to be maintained (particularly next week, which I think will prove key to the tournament overall).

So even if Linfield did win it again this year, if the results across the tournament AS A WHOLE were strongly in favour of EL clubs, then that would state that the Irish League was weaker. One good team doth not a quality league make.....

[Réiteoir]

Monaco does not have it's own National League

[dcfcsteve]

Linfield played Derry City and held their own despite this being our second tough game in three days. Remember, if we were so poor, you could not break us down in open play so does not say much for you. As for leaking 3 against the Glens, our defence was all over the place. Our first choice right back was away with Northern Ireland under 21's, our second choice is injured which meant playing a centre half at right back which meant the whole defence lost its shape and confidence. Also one of those goals was as a result of the most ridiculous penalty you will ever see and another was when we were very harshly down to ten men.

And you only scored against us thanks to a goal-keeping error, and we were denied victory by some questionable offside decisions by the linesman (e.g. McHugh's 'goal' which deflected off one of your defenders, so couldn't have been offside). But then you'll say you should've won because you were denied a panelty. And so it goes on - yeddah, yaddah; if, but, coulda, shoulda, yawn.....

We'll see in the Brandywell. :D

[dcfcsteve]

Think you are being a bit unfair, to say the least. Last year you say Linfield win was not reflective yet if they don't deliver this year somehow that will be reflective. I don't get that at all. I think Linfields win last season was fully merited. Shels were at that stage in good form (not after it though) and got to play the final on their home turf. Yet Linfield won the match comfortably.

I do though think that Linfields absolute stuffing of all and everyone in front of them up north this season might actually be working against them this season. Matches have simply become routine affairs and maybe some of the players have got used to winning at a canter. If they want to achieve again in this competition then I think they are going to have to raise their game, there is no mistake about that. I don't think it is fair to write off their achievement of last season simply because it doesn't conform to how you think it should have turned out.

Bohsfan - that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about results OVERALL - not a single team's performance. See my last response to David for elaboration.

[David]

Not at all. The debate here is about the quality of the leagues - not one team.

Last year's tournament proved fairly inconclusive in terms of which league OVERALL was the better. Linfield winning didn't change the OVERALL run of results. Regardless, it was still a surprising win for them over a team who are usually very good, but were in one of their weakest starts for years.

This year - even at this early stage - results seem to be suggesting a more conclusive OVERALL pattern than last year. EL teams beating IL teams, IL teams struggling to win and at best recording draws. As the tournament progresses, that 'for' and 'against' tally will doubtless change, but I fully expect the trend to be maintained (particularly next week, which I think will prove key to the tournament overall).

So even if Linfield did win it again this year, if the results across the tournament AS A WHOLE were strongly in favour of EL clubs, then that would state that the Irish League was weaker. One good team doth not a quality league make.....

I have already agreed that on the whole the IL is weaker, to me there is no arguing that, but at the top level there is very little difference as has been proved in the closeness of all north v south games with the exception of Shels v Glens. You say about Shels being poor last year but am I not right in saying that they were doing pretty well up until we beat them and then had a disastrous run?

[dcfcsteve]

I have already agreed that on the whole the IL is weaker, to me there is no arguing that, but at the top level there is very little difference as has been proved in the closeness of all north v south games with the exception of Shels v Glens. You say about Shels being poor last year but am I not right in saying that they were doing pretty well up until we beat them and then had a disastrous run?

And I'm saying that this year's Setanta Cup will expose that there IS a difference between the top level teams - as that's the only ones who get to play in Setanta.

We've only had 4 meetings between the 2 leagues to-date. 50% of those were EL victories, and 50% draws. There have been NO wins by an IL club in 4 opportunities. A win is a win - regardless of the margin, so you can't scrub any results from the board just because you consider them 'close'.

As I said, time will tell....

And as for shels start to last season - true, their performances did take a dip after the Setanta Cup Final. But thei start to the league wasn't great either. They recorded 2 draws in their first 4 games - including a home draw against UCD on the opening day. Hardly a strong start for the team every bookie had as absolute favourites for the title.

[David]

And I'm saying that this year's Setanta Cup will expose that there IS a difference between the top level teams - as that's the only ones who get to play in Setanta.

We've only had 4 meetings between the 2 leagues to-date. 50% of those were EL victories, and 50% draws. There have been NO wins by an IL club in 4 opportunities. A win is a win - regardless of the margin, so you can't scrub any results from the board just because you consider them 'close'.

As I said, time will tell....

But yet again you are being selective by saying this year's results are a true reflection yet last years were not. I think I am right in saying that Irish League clubs came out in front in the head to heads last year by 4-2 with the rest being draws. Does that mean that last year the Irish League was a stronger league?

[thejollyrodger]

What do you base this on?

go figure:rolleyes:

[David]

go figure:rolleyes:

The fact that the last two all Ireland competitions have been won by a team down south? Oh, here hold on a minute......:rolleyes:

[pete]

Linfield look a good team with decent facilities. Glentoran not too bad either. Beyond that standard & facilities drop away a lot. Its not surprising as republic has about 3 times the population.

Portadown are the 3rd team in the IL & have more in common with Longford (not disrespect) as town only 20k population. Would Dungannon wbe the equivalent of Bray or other eL side.

I used to be optimistic of an all-ireland league but the feeling i get now is IL sides feel they need fulltime players & not willing to adapt to that change.

BTW both the FAI & IFA could maintain 1st divisions of their own below an All-Ireland Super League thereby ensuring they mean FIFA obligations.

[Slash/ED]

Steve, I don't think thats right. I think Shels went into the final on the back of good recent form and it was only after defeat in the final that they lost the plot. I am sure one of our resident Shels fans will wither confirm or not the accuracy of this claim, but I think my memory is reasonably reliable on this one.

Good form results wise but we weren't really playing convincingly.

As for the standard, European results is the best way to measure it and it says it all.

[ThatGuy]

I hope the idiots rioting last Saturday hasn't set the All-Ireland league back another 80 years.

[dcfcsteve]

I hope the idiots rioting last Saturday hasn't set the All-Ireland league back another 80 years.

Certainly not ThatGuy. The 2 won't even be connected in anyone's heads.

There's a sepaarte thread on this anyway....

[thos mc dermott]

The issue of an All Ireland/ All Island league was debated in Portlaoise (see Great Soccer Debate).
On another note the FAI has just apppointed a project manager to work on the amalgamation of the eircom league into the FAI

[David]

Good form results wise but we weren't really playing convincingly.

As for the standard, European results is the best way to measure it and it says it all.

Surely matches against each other when both clubs are in their season is a better way to judge than how clubs get on against different opponents. :confused:

[Slash/ED]

Surely matches against each other when both clubs are in their season is a better way to judge than how clubs get on against different opponents. :confused:

The odd matches in one short period alone v consistent results over the past 5/6 years not all of which we were in summer football? Seems pretty obvious to me.

[David]

The odd matches in one short period alone v consistent results over the past 5/6 years not all of which we were in summer football? Seems pretty obvious to me.

Surely the best way to judge is when teams play each other rather than how Shelbourne do against a Romanian team and Linfield a Latvian team of a Finnish team or maybe that does not suit your argument.

[Slash/ED]

Surely the best way to judge is when teams play each other rather than how Shelbourne do against a Romanian team and Linfield a Latvian team of a Finnish team or maybe that does not suit your argument.

Not until we have a few seasons under our belt and can make an accurate judgement, if you judge standard on one cup competition in one season than Millwall were once the second best team in England.

In any case, unless I'm wrong, here's the EL sides record against IL sides in the past two seasons...

Won 7
Drawn 4
Lost 4

I could be wrong as I've just added that up quickly now but the EL sides definitely come out on top, and if this seasons Setanta Cup is anything to go by that lead will only be extended. We've won all our home games and drawn the away ones (No defeats so far) including one of our sides two trips to Linfield whch should be the hardest match.

[David]

Am I not right in saying that Shels have had one good season in Europe when they reached the 3rd qualifying round and other than that, have never won more than one tie. Still a great achievement, don't get me wrong but the way you are talking you would think that you are consistently getting to the group stages of the CL. Believe it or not I was delighted to see you beating the Glens this season. I also watched Cork's games against the Slovakian team and I thought they were extremely unlucky and would love to have seen them winning. Since the Setanta has started I have taken a lot more interest in the EL and watch most of the live games that are on and enjoy them so I am a long long way from being anti Eircom League, quite the opposite in fact. However it does wind me up when some EL fans dismiss what Linfield achieved last season and how some like to think they are so superior to the IL. I would really love to know what you base this on. Do you watch much Irish League football?

[pete]

The IL usually seem to get good results from Linfield but no other teams. The eL has a bit more strength in depth so much so that expectations are that all teams will at least get past the 1st qualifying round in 2006. Summer football means more level playing pitch too.

[David]

The IL usually seem to get good results from Linfield but no other teams. The eL has a bit more strength in depth so much so that expectations are that all teams will at least get past the 1st qualifying round in 2006. Summer football means more level playing pitch too.

I would agree, and have said a few times, that the EL has more strength in depth. As for Europe, our results, other than this season have been poor but I would put that down to the timing of it which has certainly helped EL clubs.

[pete]

I think Glentoran let themselves down badly by being inprofessional in their preparations. Made me wonder if have ambitions to improve outside of NI.