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max power
24/02/2006, 3:53 PM
in years gone by a family stuck with the same political party no matter what, some going back to the civil war and which side of the divide you were on.

in recent years this has become less of an omen with the younger generations who seem to vote on the issues of the person rather than the party this are with.

so with that in mind are there any members who still follow a political party in this political climate and changing times ?????

klein4
24/02/2006, 4:02 PM
dont vote.

Dodge
24/02/2006, 4:25 PM
so with that in mind are there any members who still follow a political party in this political climate and changing times ?????
Mod; Follow the rules and give your own opinion first before asking for thers please

Mad Moose
24/02/2006, 4:30 PM
Never even bothered registering to vote but I love to meet the canvasing politician and tell them in no uncertain terms why I wouldnt vote for them. The worst is the council elections, the kinda people who wouldnt give you the time of day any other day.

Brendan

Block G Raptor
24/02/2006, 4:34 PM
Alway's Vote Sinn Fein in Local Elections as they get more done than any other party(IMO) usually vote for Independants in General's but if someone from any party(other than the Socialist"Protest Bandwagon"Party)has a good mandate on issues which affect me then I'll vote for them

Hither green
24/02/2006, 4:42 PM
I think unless you’re a party member that’s mostly an older person thing. I used to do telephone opinion poll sort of stuff, you’d be shocked at the amount of women who said “oo politics, you wanna speak with me husband, he deals with politics in this house”. Surely that goes against the idea of one person one vote!

pete
24/02/2006, 4:59 PM
no...

Mod: Please don't requote entire posts.

Risteard
24/02/2006, 6:31 PM
Do i base my vote on some party allegiance?
No way!!
Totally agree with ya about Socialist Party BGR.
And Socialist Workers Party and
Workers Party.
Get together and create a proper party instead of the petty differences ye have and get some feckin attention for yerselves.
Although Joe Higgins is a great politician.
They're all only known as helping out Tomas get his job back around the corner.

superfrank
24/02/2006, 6:37 PM
My vote will go to SF. I have most in common with them, politically wise. My family is Labour in the 2nd generation and FF in the 3rd.

pete
24/02/2006, 10:16 PM
My only prejudice is I will never vote SF & FF usually get the last votes.
Order at the top depends on the election in question & candidates.

I have no idea what political allegiance my family has.

Cosmo
24/02/2006, 10:27 PM
My vote will go to SF.

Vote Sinn Fein myself every time but wouldnt necessarily stick to it if I moved gaff! Its sort of forced on me to have to vote by party line :(

Unfortunately my folks gaff (where im registered to vote) is just outside the drogheda boundry so I have to vote for meath politicians and i dont have a f**king clue who they are, what they do, etc as they dont be knocking about drogheda too much obviously - so I have to vote party line as a result unfortunately.

Don't get people who vote for a political party rather than an individual politician who they know will do some good work locally. Like thats been the problem with drogheda over the years, with too many craptown TD's getting voted in as a result of drogheda people voting them in on party line basis :mad: !! Wouldnt really be bothered what party someone is in, once I knew they'd do some good work locally!

Dr.Nightdub
25/02/2006, 3:02 AM
I vote first of all on the basis that I HAVE to vote for someone or other, if you don't you're refusing to acknowledge your role in the democratic process i.e. if you couldn't be arsed voting for someone - ANYONE - in the first place, you've no right to moan afterwards.

The last few elections, my vote has gone to SF - Greens - whatever independent lefty happens to be standing, purely on the basis that they (unlike FF / FG / PDs) haven't done anything to annoy me. I'd be a "natural" Labour voter except their continual spinelessnesss cheeses me off no end.

I don't particularly agree with what SF / Greens espouse, I just vote for them as a means of giving the fingers to the "mainstream" parties.

pete
25/02/2006, 1:24 PM
I vote first of all on the basis that I HAVE to vote for someone or other, if you don't you're refusing to acknowledge your role in the democratic process i.e. if you couldn't be arsed voting for someone - ANYONE - in the first place, you've no right to moan afterwards.


I agree.

I don't understand how anyone could be forced (well maybe SF) to vote for their families choosen party. Does freedom of thought not exist?

Never knew so many Shinners on foot.ie :(

Dodge
25/02/2006, 1:29 PM
I think SF are pretty much a mainstream party now. I couldn't vote for them. I usually vote labour. Haven't had a chance to vote since I moved so not sure who the local TDs are...

CollegeTillIDie
27/02/2006, 7:52 AM
In light of this past weekend's events it is even more incumbent on people who do not espouse thuggery and violence and sectarianism to go out and vote for constitutional political parties and representatives to keep those other scumbags off the political stage and out of the Dáil. If we don't vote the scangers will get their vote out and become the government.... which is precisely how the Nazi's got elected in Germany... low turnouts at Elections!

klein4
27/02/2006, 9:58 AM
I vote first of all on the basis that I HAVE to vote for someone or other, if you don't you're refusing to acknowledge your role in the democratic process i.e. if you couldn't be arsed voting for someone - ANYONE - in the first place, you've no right to moan afterwards.
.
I dont agree with this at all. so your sayin just vote for anyone for the sake of it which is what you are doin? whats the point? I remember one election when we heard nuthin but "zero tolerance" and this was goin to save us. and then when he got elected we never heard the words again. so it wasnt hard to come to the conclusion that politics in this country is pure show biz.

pete
27/02/2006, 11:47 AM
I dont agree with this at all. so your sayin just vote for anyone for the sake of it which is what you are doin? whats the point?


You vote for the best from options you are given. No one ever said you had to agree with everything or even anyone. If you can't vote for anyone then stand for election yourself. Failure to choose one of these options does not entitle to you a say.

Dodge
27/02/2006, 11:50 AM
I’d tend to agree more with klein4. If you’ve no strong opinion or can’t tell between candidates, well then don’t vote.

klein4
27/02/2006, 12:16 PM
You vote for the best from options you are given.
No one ever said you had to agree with everything or even anyone. If you can't vote for anyone then stand for election yourself. Failure to choose one of these options does not entitle to you a say.
well I hope with that kinda attitude YOU never stand for election!! Why should I give validation to people who do arse all to change what are the bloody obvious problems in this country by going down and voting in a random manner eventhough the same people get in all the time just because they are well organised. I'm not sayin nobody should vote. but I am sayin I have the right to choose when I will or will not cast MY vote. And I wont if I dont consider there to be a candidate who even broadly reflects my own views.

hamish
27/02/2006, 4:23 PM
In light of this past weekend's events it is even more incumbent on people who do not espouse thuggery and violence and sectarianism to go out and vote for constitutional political parties and representatives to keep those other scumbags off the political stage and out of the Dáil. If we don't vote the scangers will get their vote out and become the government.... which is precisely how the Nazi's got elected in Germany... low turnouts at Elections!

Way to go CTID. I have no time for SF - sorry Block G Raptor - and I'll never vote FF again for a number of reasons - one being the way Aherne fcuked up the Eircom Park plan.:mad:
FG, Lab, PD - fcuk all them too - there is a bad case of tweedledum/tweedledee running through the Dail parties. I chose the Greens in the late 80s and am sticking with them - they don't seeem to have been contaminated yet and their TDs perform well in the Dail and in their constituencies.
I'd think again, though, if they went into government as a minority party with FF.
There are a few good TDs individually but the Mary Wallace scenario was typical of all that is wrong with party politics in this land - she's was/is the laziest TD in the Dail and yet gets a Junior Ministry to continue doing fcuk all but with plenty of bobs to go with the position. She was also useless in her last position too.
Got a leaflet in the post this morning from one local TD claiming the credit for the new factory coming here - he had absolutely nothing to do with it and has sent out the same 4 page leaflet twice claiming credit.
Ireland is relatively successful at the moment but I often wonder how we became successful - was it by accident or design??:confused:

Ah, I'm in contrary mood at the moment. Just came from Portiuncula where I had an MRI scan at 12.30pm and discovered that I have have to foot the bill - 450 euroes:eek: - VHI doesn't cover MRI scans done by a private company which does this at the local hospital.
Found out they only do it for the Bon Securs in Galway city but got no hint of this when I received the appointment on Friday, yes Friday, so hadn't even a chance to query it and get an appt. for the Bon. Sec.
No wonder the health service is fcuked when this kind of thing happens.
I'm lucky in that I can (eventually) cover this bill but I wonder how long do people on medical cards have to wait to get this - and other similar services -Probably years.

Just another reason to be cynical about politicans when they BS about the health service.
Shower of useless fcukers.

Poor Student
27/02/2006, 7:05 PM
I'm not sayin nobody should vote. but I am sayin I have the right to choose when I will or will not cast MY vote. And I wont if I dont consider there to be a candidate who even broadly reflects my own views.

I think it's generally considering your democratic duty to choose the candidate who closest reflects your views no matter how far it is. For example you may abhorr a certain party above all others and help ensure they don't get in by voting for the closest one to your views. Particularly in Ireland with the preference system you are asked to rank all the candidates right down to the bottom no matter how long to totally fulfil your democratic duty.

I'm not quite sure what the initial poster's point is but if he is talking about the instance of voting along the lines of your father then that is statistically in decline with Fianna Fáil maintaing the highest percentage liklihood of someone voting along the lines of their father. Voter volatility in general (i.e. your likelihood to ever change your vote from the first party you voted for) is also statistically on the increase.

1 9 2 8
27/02/2006, 7:06 PM
I chose the Greens in the late 80s and am sticking with them
Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

Poor Student
27/02/2006, 7:09 PM
Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

Green parties were initially one issue parties when they came on the scene but like all long term political parties they evolve into developing a wide range of policies on various issues. You can particularly see this in Germany, the most successful Green Party in Western Europe (or even the world?), where the party is a major player in the political scene. If you go to their website I think you'll find their range of policies.

Partizan
27/02/2006, 7:19 PM
I'm a Workers' Party man myself, even though my family is solid Fianna Fail. Good chance that the WP could out poll the Provos and take a Dail seat in Waterford in the next election. Local city councillor John Halligan is rated as by many political journos as the best on the Council and his topping the poll in Ward 3 (the largest electoral ward in the city) getting 1300 votes was no accident. Halligan is a great supporter of the Blues like Party colleague Davy Walsh and for the last couple of years has done a lot of sterling work behind the scenes for the Club

WP have been on Waterford City Council since 1974 and their record is rivalled by few parties. Provos are all huff and puff, FF are **** poor with Cullen and waster Wilkinson. Brian O'Shea for Labour is practically non-existent. John Deasy the FG TD I would rate as a good politician but the farmers will carry him through.

I cant wait to see Cullen knock on my door.
June 2007 cant come soon enough.

Thunderblaster
27/02/2006, 8:27 PM
I just cross-vote.

CollegeTillIDie
27/02/2006, 9:19 PM
Sir hamish

You can claim the cost back on your taxes MED 2 form from Revenue commissioners!

CollegeTillIDie
27/02/2006, 9:24 PM
I'm a Workers' Party man myself, even though my family is solid Fianna Fail. Good chance that the WP could out poll the Provos and take a Dail seat in Waterford in the next election. Local city councillor John Halligan is rated as by many political journos as the best on the Council and his topping the poll in Ward 3 (the largest electoral ward in the city) getting 1300 votes was no accident. Halligan is a great supporter of the Blues like Party colleague Davy Walsh and for the last couple of years has done a lot of sterling work behind the scenes for the Club

WP have been on Waterford City Council since 1974 and their record is rivalled by few parties. Provos are all huff and puff, FF are **** poor with Cullen and waster Wilkinson. Brian O'Shea for Labour is practically non-existent. John Deasy the FG TD I would rate as a good politician but the farmers will carry him through.

I cant wait to see Cullen knock on my door.
June 2007 cant come soon enough.

Well use your transfers fully just in case your party man does not get in this time. The PR STV system is actually the best electoral system around.

hamish
28/02/2006, 1:30 AM
Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

Good question - 1928 - but I've checked their policies and being green can cover an ocean of areas.
Environment itself can cover the economy, work practises, agriculture and so on when you think about it.
Here are some details
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/library/childcare_policy_proposals

I reckon, as members of a government, they could trim the excesses of the traditional parties and make controls of waste management/recycling stronger. - this worked fairly well in German when the likes of the late Petra Kelly was involved.
One thing I love in cities are streets where one can walk with limited or no traffic - Shop Street, Henry Street. Kilkenny etc.
I reckon you'd see greater emphasiis on extending bus lanes, greater emphasis on sports/PE in schools, s greater upport for creches and so and so on
But would they become tainted after a period in government with the likes of FG or FF? - sigh - probably.
Green would/will never be big enough to form a single party government but like the PD's would maybe, be part of one.

hamish
28/02/2006, 1:50 AM
Green parties were initially one issue parties when they came on the scene but like all long term political parties they evolve into developing a wide range of policies on various issues. You can particularly see this in Germany, the most successful Green Party in Western Europe (or even the world?), where the party is a major player in the political scene. If you go to their website I think you'll find their range of policies.

Yeah, PS, aren't there huge restrictions (or a ban?) on the transport of nuclear waste/fuel in Germany as a result of Green policies?
Angela Merkel will soon change that.
Funny to see nuclear power now even endorsed by James Lovelock.
Trouble with nuclear power, it too, has a limited, very limited, source and these days, when transported by sea (especially) you have a target for terrorists.
Bad enough to have the Bush Crime Family running allover the planet now with oil production nearing it's peak - no doubt they're succesors will be doing the same when the countries with uranium deposits (Niger etc) become the "new Arabs".
Also, the REAL costs of nuclear power do not manifest themselves until the plants are being decommissioned and waste storage is also costly and hard to locate. This basically means that you, your kids, your kids kids will be paying the costs from their taxes.
Finally, nuclear power has a history - right up to today, of malpractice, dodgy dealings, lousy safety procedures etc etc. Good enough reason to still be suspicious of it for that alone.
The pathetic efforts to advance alternative energy - just ask Air Tricity - is no excuse either.
Getting off point but even some members of the Greens are discussing the possibility of a new breed of safer nuclear energy so the party is a wide tent on this matter.

One good policy I feel that the Greens would introduce would be grants for all public housing - in fact for all housing - to have insulation installed - by law. The amount of heat wasted in EVERY area of our lives is simply MASSIVE.
A footie friend of mine who recently retired from the ESB told me that if we switched off lights in unused rooms and house technology left on standby would power several Irish towns.
Baning fcuking SUVs would be another achievement - so bloody what if it's a statement of wealth - to me it's simply the vulgarity of the nouveau Rich. Prats!
I can never understand how all that gunge that pours from factory pipes cannot be harnessed - ditto crap poared into rivers.

Here's the beauty of all the above - you lot would all have more money in your pocket - smaller ESB bills, cars with bioethonal fuel - cheaper than imported oil, demanding food without layers of packaging makes costs cheaper.
All the above takes willpower and an in-government party to push it.

hamish
28/02/2006, 1:59 AM
Sir hamish

You can claim the cost back on your taxes MED 2 form from Revenue commissioners!

Big thanks for that CTID - knew you could claim back but how much would you get back???

Hamish

Macy
28/02/2006, 8:50 AM
Never felt pressure to vote for anyone from family - always had it drummed into us the importance of a) that people died to get us a vote b) people died to get us a secret ballot.

As for me, I would be a socialist, but best available will be Labour (but the left wing of the party will be my options anyway). After that, it'll be the best local workers from other parties. FG winning that no contest, the likely candidate a great local worker and a genuine fella that always has time for you.

FF non existant (wouldn't even reply to letters we sent on a particular issue), and will be run over Decentralisation, labour inspectorate, health service, and all the other things they've failed in since 1997. The local FF candidate likely to be parachuted in from the independents, so wouldn't vote for him on principle of running as alternative to FF in the locals, and then jumping ship now a TD's salary beckons.

At the moment not looking likely that the independent will run again, but too FF gene pool for me anyway. Don't really agree with independents, especially when their essentially just independent as they (or their parents) couldn't get on the ticket for one of the main parties. PD's unlikely to stand, but then hell not likely to freeze over before the election so won't be getting my vote. Sinners were in the paper inspecting Wicklow port (arf) there the other week, but don't vote for one issue parties, never mind my other feelings on the party.

pete
28/02/2006, 10:34 AM
I usually give the Greens a vote down the line but just too far to the left to get a 1st preference from me. Unfortunately they have more in common with SF than Labour. If they were closer to european greens i feel they would do a lot better as middle alternative.

Macy
28/02/2006, 10:37 AM
I usually give the Greens a vote down the line but just too far to the left to get a 1st preference from me.
Forgot about the Greens. Don't really have much of an issue with them as a party, but locally Deirdre De Burca is the likely candidate - that women can make Dick Roche seem like a rational, sensible politician. :rolleyes:

Macy
28/02/2006, 10:41 AM
The PR STV system is actually the best electoral system around.
Used to think so, but McDowell is right when he says the tail always wags the dog under the electoral system. Which makes it not very proportional when it comes to Government. The need for a smaller party to make up the Government always means that they punch above their weight, so instead of under a first past the post system where 35-40% controls the Government, we have a situation where 5-6% controls the Government.

Macy
28/02/2006, 10:44 AM
I’d tend to agree more with klein4. If you’ve no strong opinion or can’t tell between candidates, well then don’t vote.
Spoil your vote rather than not turn out. Should be a none of the above option - we'd see a massive increase in turnout imo, and then the mainstream parties would have to address why. People not turning out gives the politicians a get out by saying people don't care, instead of forcing them to address why they don't care.

John83
28/02/2006, 10:45 AM
...For example you may abhorr a certain party above all others and help ensure they don't get in by voting for the closest one to your views.
Now, now. It's okay to call them SF these days. No guns, see? ;)


...voting along the lines of your father ... is statistically in decline with Fianna Fáil maintaing the highest percentage liklihood of someone voting along the lines of their father.
The only people I know who are active in politics at a young age are from strong FF families. They bleat about it as if brainwashed...


Voter volatility in general (i.e. your likelihood to ever change your vote from the first party you voted for) is also statistically on the increase.
It's still one of the lowest in Europe, IIRC. It'd want to be on the increase.

pete
28/02/2006, 11:11 AM
Spoil your vote rather than not turn out..

I disagree. Spoiling your vote is like saying you can't make a decision.

Macy
28/02/2006, 11:17 AM
I disagree. Spoiling your vote is like saying you can't make a decision.
Better than not showing at all imo. A "none of the above" option would be my preferred option. It'll never happen as the politicians know it would be a poll topper.

Dodge
28/02/2006, 11:56 AM
Anyone ever see the film Brewster's Millions? :D

John83
28/02/2006, 8:23 PM
Better than not showing at all imo. A "none of the above" option would be my preferred option. It'll never happen as the politicians know it would be a poll topper.
I think RON (Re-Open Nominations) has occasionally won an SU election in UCD. I'm not sure why it can't be a valid option on the national polls.

Poor Student
28/02/2006, 11:10 PM
I remember a few years back a guy in my Politics tutorial was running for SU Welfare Officer, the one and only candidate, and in an interview to the College Observer he pretty much proved he had no clue what the post entailed. His classmates in Sociology ran a vigorous RON campaign against him though he won it in the end.

CollegeTillIDie
01/03/2006, 7:13 AM
Big thanks for that CTID - knew you could claim back but how much would you get back???

Hamish

Well it depends what rate of income tax you pay but I would surmise you are a 40% tax payer in which case you get that much back. You can claim all medical expenses incurred over an amount of €125 for an individual per annum and €250 per annum for a couple. If you have a printer go on to www.revenue.ie and you can download the form. There are two medical expense claim forms download both and I think information leaflets may also be available on the website. You need to submit receipts . If you are on permanent medication you can as a PRSI payer get that subsidised. You can get any amount of medication for €85 a month and you can then claim the €85 a month back at the end of the year on the same tax form I have just told you about.

You can claim 2005 Expenses now once you have your P60 for last year or a statement of income. And any expenses incurred during 2006 can be claimed back early next year.

CollegeTillIDie
01/03/2006, 7:17 AM
Never felt pressure to vote for anyone from family - always had it drummed into us the importance of a) that people died to get us a vote b) people died to get us a secret ballot.

Quite right Macy. I also liked your point about not voting for one issue parties.
I'd think it would be like buying a one trick pony for the circus:D

wws
01/03/2006, 3:48 PM
why ?

i dunno

Risteard
01/03/2006, 5:09 PM
Am i right in saying you're legally obliged to vote in Australia?
Sounds like a good idea to me. Force people to take an interest.

klein4
02/03/2006, 10:17 AM
yeah think that is the case in Oz. you get fined if you dont vote and if you are away you have to post your vote. would be a great idea but forcing 40% of population to get out and vote might not be the greatest move ever on behalf of whatever gov brought it in...

John83
02/03/2006, 11:09 AM
yeah think that is the case in Oz. you get fined if you dont vote and if you are away you have to post your vote. would be a great idea but forcing 40% of population to get out and vote might not be the greatest move ever on behalf of whatever gov brought it in...
That's right. I don't know if it actually resulted in a backlash. :D That would be amusing.

ltfc_2004
02/03/2006, 1:53 PM
Not to many FF people on here at all, they must be all in hiding !!!!

Well i'm FF, former member of the National Executive and 6 years on its National Youth Committee. Although after that i would transfer to Labour and then SF or a FF Independent.

Still help out Barry Andrews in Dun Laoghaire, you cant beat the craic of a canvass and meeting 100's of grumpy *******s on a saturday morning :D

Speranza
02/03/2006, 3:51 PM
Making voting compulsary would be fine if there was a "none of the above" option as there is a good section of the population who refuse their vote because of precieved ineptitude of their particular representatives.

Would vote SEA (Eamon Mc Cann) in any vote in Derry as he would probably me the only one in council to sort out the mess that is our stadium. Although I would share the republican ideals of Sinn Fein their behaviour in the last year most notably the Robery Mc Cartney murder would make legendary figures like Bobby Sands turn in his grave. The sheer arrogance of the party also turns me right off them, was told by a leading SF councillor that "it doesn't matter if you don't vote for me as I'll get in anyway"

CollegeTillIDie
02/03/2006, 11:54 PM
In some countries if the turn out is less than 50% the poll is deemed null and void and has to be held again.