View Full Version : Bohemians Accounts published in Sunday Business Post
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20/02/2006, 11:00 AM
Good morning folks,
My first post but I believe its interesting - especially for all Bohs fans that shelled out 300 nicker to become a member and have access to the clubs true financial position.
Yesterdays Sunday Business Post published a small story detailing a lot of what I regarded as sensitive infomation about Bohs property deal with Albion and there position in terms of debt, curent income, and expenditure.
The bones of it are as follows. (I'm doing this from memory so a few of the figures might be slightly out but the general thrust is accurate)
Income has dropped from 1.3 million last year (03-04 season) to 1 million this year. (04-05)
Total Expenditire has also been radically reduced by about 400K to 1.3 million (still spending way more than they shold be)
Expenditure on the first team was roughly 750K
Total employees was 34 with 27 of these being playing or technical staff.
Albion have made an additional payment of 600K to compensate Bohs for the delay in providing Corporate boxes. This has been used to reduce the clubs debt to 700K.
A new deal has been done with the Mater Hospital for the Car park worth 180k a year.
In amongst all these figures was the usual bumpf about how the club is aiming to maximise revenue from non football related sources etc etc.
All in all an interesting read, also encouraging to see the return of some sort of sanity to Dalymoun in terms of the Albion windfall being used to reduce Debt and expenditure being cut to match income. From the article Id say Bohs are in an OK position financially and in comparison to Shels - who knows (unless your Oily ;) but if rumor is to be believed then Bohs are in a much healthier state than Shels
Block G Raptor
20/02/2006, 12:53 PM
Hate to say we told you so BUT..................
Roverstillidie
20/02/2006, 12:56 PM
Good to hear !
Not Sure if the Shams Lads will like this news !
who?
what we have always asked is whats their debt? how much do they owwe the revenue?
Roverstillidie
20/02/2006, 1:11 PM
Look dont want to get involved but their has been a lots of comments and sly digs made towards Bohs Financial State by Shams fans over the last while which i thought at the time were unfair and this would seem to be prove that !
Anyway this article goes a long with to answering any question you or anybody else has !
who are shams?
we were commenting on their debt, specifically to the revenue, which is not addressed in the article.
thomas
20/02/2006, 1:14 PM
Good for bohs and the league, it means unless ollie comes up with €180k a year why would bohs be arsed letting him in on their patch, when they'll have a refurbished and a new stand, a cash cow on connaught st. and just the shed end in need of doing up, which would probably cost €2.0m allowing for demolition, what with 70% fubnding I can't see bohs being foolish enough to gie it up.
who are shams?
we were commenting on their debt, specifically to the revenue, which is not addressed in the article.
Whatever it is, rest assured we are paying more than "a nominal percentage" of it.
Roverstillidie
20/02/2006, 2:18 PM
are you though? are you really?
BohsFans
20/02/2006, 2:36 PM
are you though? are you really?
are you still here **** stirring and speculating on another Bohs thread? :rolleyes:
the revenue will get to the likes of Shels, Longford and Cork one day ;)
are you though? are you really?
I'd be surprised if they aren't - just the same as youse wouldn't have got away with it if you had an asset that could be stripped to pay them off. Bohs creditors in a much stronger position than yours were.
The Sheliban
20/02/2006, 2:57 PM
So the main thrust of the article is that Bohs aren't financially as badly off as rumour had intimated.
Yet everyone is prepared to believe Shels are in financial trouble, without a shred of evidence to support that!
People look at our gates (which aren't as bad as peoplke make out) and look at the squad and say it doesn't add up, without taking into account fundraising and sponsorship. And most of our "expensively assembled" squad was, in fact acquired for nothing.
And most of our "expensively assembled" squad was, in fact acquired for nothing.
Transfer fees might not have been paid, but signing on fees certainly were.
A face
20/02/2006, 3:19 PM
who are shams?
shams = Shamrock Rovers ... thought you'd know that :)
Block G Raptor
20/02/2006, 3:48 PM
Love all the rovers fan's coming on here with there snide remarks about the revenue et al. People who live in glasshouses (or municipal stadia) shouldn't throw stones. when will you idiots learn that is why you are the most hated fans in the country
bohs til i die
20/02/2006, 4:10 PM
So the main thrust of the article is that Bohs aren't financially as badly off as rumour had intimated.
Yet everyone is prepared to believe Shels are in financial trouble, without a shred of evidence to support that!
People look at our gates (which aren't as bad as peoplke make out) and look at the squad and say it doesn't add up, without taking into account fundraising and sponsorship. And most of our "expensively assembled" squad was, in fact acquired for nothing.
well can you prove that shels arent in financial trouble? Have you seen any acounts?
Roverstillidie
20/02/2006, 8:39 PM
Love all the rovers fan's coming on here with there snide remarks about the revenue et al. People who live in glasshouses (or municipal stadia) souldn't throw stones. when will you idiots learn that is why you are the most hated fans in the country
hit a nerve, did i? :D
chippie0001
20/02/2006, 8:58 PM
who?
what we have always asked is whats their debt? how much do they owwe the revenue?
Since you are so curious and to put you out of your misery, we owe the revenue a lot of money, we have repaid a certain sum and have to repay the remainder in full over the next couple of years. I won't go into figures but unlike other clubs we will be paying our debts in full, eventually.
Since you are so curious and to put you out of your misery, we owe the revenue a lot of money, we have repaid a certain sum and have to repay the remainder in full over the next couple of years. I won't go into figures but unlike other clubs we will be paying our debts in full, eventually.
Bah thats a crap way to do it, how about lie, cheat and deceive the league and revenue, get given a stadium and then pay a euro a week to the revenue for the next 100 years or so. Its what all the kool kids are doing.
Oh and then come and boast about how kool your club is and how your the best run candyfloss stand in the circus.
Btw nice to see a club show there true financial state rather than hide behind "other" fundraising schemes.
kdjac
Just one question, are the monies owed to the revenue included in the reduced debt of 700k?
One thing i have to say is very commendable, the use of the 600k being used to reduce the overall debts, considering the fact bohs have fallen behind in the league recently it would have been easy given the history of the league & clubs all to willingness to spend spend spend to invest that money in strengthening the squad, in turn taking a massive gamble on the clubs future financial status! As pointed out above, sitting on an asset like Dalymount though means Bohs dont have the factors allowing them to be flexible in their debt management, hence this beinga very prudent call indeed!
Personally despite all the usual 'banter' between rovers & bohs i think its great to see them getting their house in order, as Thomas said above, sort out the rest of Dalymount over time & the clubs should be financially stable for some time to come! Oh and ideally without Shels having any say!
Koh
The Sheliban
21/02/2006, 8:36 AM
well can you prove that shels arent in financial trouble? Have you seen any acounts?
No I haven't - we could be millions in debt, we could be millions in the black. Thats the whole point. Ollie doesn't tend to bandy about our financial details, yet people are prepared to believe "the rumour"
Which, as at Bohs, may well turn out to be somewhat exaggerated.
No I haven't - we could be millions in debt, we could be millions in the black. Thats the whole point. Ollie doesn't tend to bandy about our financial details, yet people are prepared to believe "the rumour"
People look at the squad and don't see how it's being paid for - as we all know how things work at our own clubs. There has to be serious debt being incurred or you have a major windfall that are using to pay for the team. People aren't prepared to accept that players are turning down more money elsewhere to play for shels. Infact the only one's that refuse to even question where the money is coming from and how it's being paid are the Shels fans. To me this would be the most concerning aspect if I were a Shels fan - the unquestioning loyalty to Ollie. Setting yourselves up for a fall big time, and this only 2 years since he was going around with a begging bowl close season as you couldn't meet the then wage demands.
To be fair to Shels, Fenlon and others are often open about them spending money they don't have. They're going for the "speculate to accumulate" type of planning that worked so well for Rovers
thomas
21/02/2006, 12:11 PM
You wont ever see any accounts for shels (or Longford) as their football club(s) are not incorporated bodies, as such they have no obligation to return accounts to the CRO.
However, shels debts are evidently directors loans which would in large part be paid off by the sale of tolka with the remainder being used as shels wish.
Of course, this is permitted by the license, but what the hey...
You wont ever see any accounts for shels (or Longford) as their football club(s) are not incorporated bodies, as such they have no obligation to return accounts to the CRO.
eh, we're a members club though, so member's will see the accounts.
thomas
21/02/2006, 12:32 PM
Is the tax man a member too?
How is it in any way transparent if you are not obliged to return accounts when others do?
Longfordian
21/02/2006, 12:33 PM
Correct, pay your 40 or 50 quid a year and you can see them at the AGM.
Thomas, we've had many dealings with the Revenue recently and have a TCC for the whole of 2006 as far as I'm aware. We paid them a large sum of money not too long ago.
Revenue returns and the CRO are two seperate issues Thomas. I mean whats the current Rovers one on the CRO. Because if you're looking for transparency, all those listed as "Shamrock Rovers Football Club" are dissolved...
Branvard Ltd, I presume, which would be well known to all and sundry.
Obviously, and known to most in eL circles anyway.
thomas
21/02/2006, 1:08 PM
Obviously, and known to most in eL circles anyway.
True, some issues with that, but will be renamed shortly.
thomas
21/02/2006, 1:10 PM
Revenue returns and the CRO are two seperate issues Thomas. I mean whats the current Rovers one on the CRO. Because if you're looking for transparency, all those listed as "Shamrock Rovers Football Club" are dissolved...
True, but there is a company there as NH said. Agreed on the returns/revenue, but it still smacks of a lack of transparency when 20 / 22 clubs have balance sheets available for anyone with €2.50 to spare and 2 don't.
Transparency for who? As long as Revenue know whats going on , whats the problem?
NY Hoop
21/02/2006, 2:46 PM
Bah thats a crap way to do it, how about lie, cheat and deceive the league and revenue, get given a stadium and then pay a euro a week to the revenue for the next 100 years or so. Its what all the kool kids are doing.
Oh and then come and boast about how kool your club is and how your the best run candyfloss stand in the circus.
Btw nice to see a club show there true financial state rather than hide behind "other" fundraising schemes.
kdjac
I know that you're not the brightest but this has been explained before. Coming from a club that couldnt register their players is rich. Why dont you toddle back to boards beavis?
KOH
thomas
21/02/2006, 2:55 PM
Transparency for who? As long as Revenue know whats going on , whats the problem?
Obligation for books, records and auditing are non existant in comparison with incorporated entities.
It needs to be transparent so that all clubs know they are on an equal footing. This is especially the case for auditing and for how employees are paid.
For example, an unincorporated club might get away paying self employed players a gross sum while everyone else has to pay net to players and the tax balance to revenue. This means there is a significant disadvantage for all other incorporated clubs.
Added to that failing to be a limited company or co-op is unprofessional and extremely risky for anyone directly involved.
fitzknows
21/02/2006, 3:47 PM
It´s quite sad to see certain Shamrock Rovers fans post messages on this site gloating about other club´s alleged financial difficulties given what´s happened with Shamrock Rovers FC over the past couple of years. ´Minnowism´ is about the only word that i can use to describe it.
NY Hoop
21/02/2006, 3:54 PM
It´s quite sad to see certain Shamrock Rovers fans post messages on this site gloating about other club´s alleged financial difficulties given what´s happened with Shamrock Rovers FC over the past couple of years. ´Minnowism´ is about the only word that i can use to describe it.
Coming from a limerick fan I find that deliciously ironic.
The fans saved our club and discovered that previous practices were non existent. Now that we are following proper procedures it is only right that questions be asked regarding other member clubs.
KOH
fitzknows
21/02/2006, 4:00 PM
How is it ironic. I am not gloating over any club´s perceived financial difficulties.
thomas
21/02/2006, 4:53 PM
It´s quite sad to see certain Shamrock Rovers fans post messages on this site gloating about other club´s alleged financial difficulties given what´s happened with Shamrock Rovers FC over the past couple of years. ´Minnowism´ is about the only word that i can use to describe it.
Where does it gloat? Its pointing out a reality that unincorporated clubs can get an unfair advantage compared to everyone else.
Try re-reading the posts, legal obligations under the companies act do not = financial difficulties.
thomas
21/02/2006, 4:54 PM
Well Said ! ;)
Should we start an I agree thread or can people contribute actual opinions.
WeAreRovers
21/02/2006, 5:19 PM
How is it ironic.
I suspect it was the Limerick fan calls Rovers fans minnows bit.
KOH
thomas
21/02/2006, 8:58 PM
Wild and ignorant opinions and ridiculous accusations about other clubs when you dont have a clue about them should not be welcomed IMO on this forum ! ;)
Of course, so if they have nothing to hide I wouldn't have to mouth off about how they are hiding it.
I know that you're not the brightest but this has been explained before. Coming from a club that couldnt register their players is rich. Why dont you toddle back to boards beavis?
KOH
So you really do have the best candyfloss stand in the circus? Arguing or debating anything with a Rovers fan on this or any other website, shucks even in real life. Should be an event in the Special Olympics.
kdjac
Do i read the accounts correctly? 400k & 300k loses in last 2 years? How long can Bohs survive before they need to breakeven? How can they pay off their debts?
Roverstillidie
21/02/2006, 10:07 PM
would people read what was actually written?
and ignoring that, we put up with years and years of stadium and financial related abuse from the pox, why should we not gloat now the shoe is most certainly on the other foot?
Well Longford Town do have a limited company. It's still an active company on the CRO, albeit with overdue returns. People should make up their minds about what their giving out about - Tax, Accounts, Registered Companies or Licencing...
Only thing that anyone can say with certainty is that we've overdue accounts with the CRO, as we have tax clearance (as per "well connected" longfordian), have an active registered company (as per the CRO), and the audited accounts will be with the licencing body once they manage to send them to the right address (as per the boards excuse for no licence).
thomas
22/02/2006, 11:32 AM
Ok Thomas do you have proof of this ?
Proof that they are unincorporated? None that I'm going to post here, but tell you what, ask shels and longford for their company number.
Both have company's registered in the club name that are effevtively holding companies, ie not the ones who pay the wages.
All I'm asking for is for the same transparencey that all the other clubs have to endure, so we know we're on the same footing.
Block G Raptor
22/02/2006, 11:42 AM
transparencey that all the other clubs have to endure, so we know we're on the same footing.
I dont know if this is a case of Poachers turned Gamekeepers or The Lunatics taking over the asylum. but feck sake you've a nerve to moan about transparencey given rovers muddied past
Proof that they are unincorporated? None that I'm going to post here, but tell you what, ask shels and longford for their company number.
Both have company's registered in the club name that are effevtively holding companies, ie not the ones who pay the wages.
All I'm asking for is for the same transparencey that all the other clubs have to endure, so we know we're on the same footing.
It was FAI rules that meant that had to be the case. Members clubs had to have a registered company. So to comply with FAI rules we have to have the registered holding company, but to comply with Thomas' transparency rules we have to ditch it? :confused:
NY Hoop
22/02/2006, 2:18 PM
So you really do have the best candyfloss stand in the circus? Arguing or debating anything with a Rovers fan on this or any other website, shucks even in real life. Should be an event in the Special Olympics.
kdjac
Dont tempt me.
We can debate rationally here but when a dumbass comes in with drivel he rightly gets abused
KOH
thomas
22/02/2006, 3:35 PM
I dont know if this is a case of Poachers turned Gamekeepers or The Lunatics taking over the asylum. but feck sake you've a nerve to moan about transparencey given rovers muddied past
Where was there a lack of transparency in what happened at rovers?
Macy you miss the point, the trading part of the club should be a company, not a club. That way every club will have the same obligations (and protections) under company law. Thats not the case at the moment.
If the assets are held by one company and the trading entity is another company there's no problem with that. Even simpler is the Bohs situation, a company limited by guarantee which allows for members to subscribe etc.
Longfordian
22/02/2006, 3:39 PM
I would think that will happen in the future, just exactly when I don't know though.
CollegeTillIDie
25/02/2006, 8:43 AM
EL Football clubs need to be efficient and effective operations off the field far more than their teams need to be any ephin use on the field. Success in football is often a temporary phenomenon on the field which last sometimes only a few seasons. Proper practices need to be adopted and implemented at all current 22 EL clubs and any future clubs involved at any level of senior professional/semi-pro level on the entire Island every season into the future!
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