Coming Soon To A Green Belt Near You

[Lionel Ritchie]

If further proof was needed that Dick Roche was appointed to N-vyor-mint as a ballbreaker it can be found at

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0216/environment.html

Strategic Infrastructure Bill is published

16 February 2006 16:07
The Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche, has formally published the Strategic Infrastructure Bill, which is aimed at cutting out delays in the planning process for big infrastructural projects.

Under its terms, a new division will be established within An Bord Pleanála to take decisions on such projects.

The Bill would effectively mean that there would be a one-step planning process for major infrastructure.

The Minister for something he can't pronounce and which he thinks is a mythical nuicance thought up by "someone in Brussels" means business this time ...as usual.

[dahamsta]

He was advised to require carrier-neutral ducting too, and completely ignored the advice.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054890749

adam

[hamish]

Isn't that the tulip who's in favour of incinerators but wouldn't have one in his own constituency??

[Macy]

I'm kinda torn on this one, anything that reduces those wánkers in An Taisce's role in things has to be good thing (protectors of the country my arse, telling the country side how to live from their D4 residents so they feel happy on their sunday drives).

However, the whole basis of this is wrong. Delays aren't due to the planning process, their due to changes in design and court cases after the fact. Prime example of the former, with Cullen's change of mind on M50 tolls means they'll have to delay, and re-tender the upgrade. With regard to the latter court injunctions and processes still applicable as things stand (although no doubt McDowell will run roughshod over those rights too).

[Lionel Ritchie]

woohoo -I'd say between the few of us on this thread we've already got enough topics for a serious flame war:D

I'll try to keep it clean though. (Pardon pun)

Isn't that the tulip who's in favour of incinerators but wouldn't have one in his own constituency
As someone who grew up within sight and smell of Limerick Citys old municipal dump which they managed to keep open for nearly 20 years beyond it's lifetime (on the banks of the broad majestic Shannon:rolleyes: ) I can say I'd have taken an incinerator ahead of what we had any day of the week.

In fact my dad, a Councillor at the time, went to Denmark in the early '80's (Aarhus and Copenhagen I think) to look at their incinerators and came back all for them. I remember him talking about how the city dump was in a business park ...not some field out in the country where no one'll see it anymore.
Rubbish trucks went in one end where waste was sorted -some for recycling, some for incineration and a fraction for landfill. The incinerators were smokeless, ran on the energy they generated themselves and could even feed into the local grid. What came out on the far end could be mixed with concrete or tar and used as a construction material -usually for roads.
The Danes were and I presume still are so on top of this sort of thing.


I'm kinda torn on this one, anything that reduces those wánkers in An Taisce's role in things has to be good thing (protectors of the country my arse, telling the country side how to live from their D4 residents so they feel happy on their sunday drives). If by that you mean telling "the countryside" that they can't build whatever the hell they want wherever the hell they want it just coz all their kids have been promised half an acre of land (that they knew was designated for Agriculture and NOT residential development) then you should love Roche. He has liberalised the laws in relation to "one off" housing already and believes the phenomenon to be an indellable characteristic in the Irish rural psyche. Indellable or not it has to stop ...merely a matter of when -not if -as it's completely unsustainable.

[dahamsta]

in fact my dad, a Councillor at the time, went to Denmark in the early '80's (Aarhus and Copenhagen I think) to look at their incineratorsCan you say "junket"? :D

[Macy]

If by that you mean telling "the countryside" that they can't build whatever the hell they want wherever the hell they want it just coz all their kids have been promised half an acre of land (that they knew was designated for Agriculture and NOT residential development) then you should love Roche. He has liberalised the laws in relation to "one off" housing already and believes the phenomenon to be an indellable characteristic in the Irish rural psyche. Indellable or not it has to stop ...merely a matter of when -not if -as it's completely unsustainable.
It is part of the irish rural psyche. Only ever stopped because of the emigration rates. I don't buy the sustainability arguement, especially when the other option is a housing estate with an even bigger commute, with no family support for the older generations left behind.

[pete]

I don't know the details but if this stops thre amount of nimby objections its a good thing.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Can you say "junket"? :D

On the Diamond Joe Quimby Junket merit scale a bunch of Limerick City councillors going to have a look at Danish dumps ranks a lowly 1 out of 10 compared with Clare sending theirs to the an australian vineyard region of the same name to explore "cultural links and co-operation". That's a 10 out of 10 right up their with Diamond Joe exploring the viability of a light rail link between Springfield and Aruba.


It is part of the irish rural psyche. Only ever stopped because of the emigration rates. I don't buy the sustainability arguement, especially when the other option is a housing estate with an even bigger commute, with no family support for the older generations left behind.

Don't buy it then. Accept the lack of services and declining quality of services that the phenomenon leads and contributes to.

How could a "housing estate" (nice urban sprawl image there by the way) create a bigger commute? Cell based developments are far easier to service ...be it by school buses, postal services, Ambulances etc ...might make a share-fare taxi ride home from the pub more attractive too:eek: ;)

[Macy]

How could a "housing estate" (nice urban sprawl image there by the way) create a bigger commute? Cell based developments are far easier to service ...be it by school buses, postal services, Ambulances etc ...might make a share-fare taxi ride home from the pub more attractive too:eek: ;)
Nice in theory. The practice is that the alternative is some sprawling estate in a midland town or village, with overcrowded schools, inadequate services, a lack of personal support structures and a 2 and half hour commute. Are you really saying that is more sustainable than a one off house amongst the community that people grew up in, close to family and friends?

All of which gets away from the fact that a quango of unelected city dwelling busy bodies shouldn't be left be the self appointed guardians of the country side. There is a need to debate the issue, but An Taisce should be decommissioned first so that an open and honest debate can take place.

[Lionel Ritchie]

If that is the practice then the practice is wrong. Though what you're describing sounds much more like the phenomenon of former urbanites or their kids moving out of the city environs to provincial towns and villages due to a different set of pressures.

What I'm talking about is the need to actually plan rural communities rather than just accept whatever happens there as happening there and to hell with the consequences. Other countries with far greater density of population and far lesser encourage building in cells of a dozen or more as it makes more sense when servicing the needs of the dwellers.

[Macy]

If that is the practice then the practice is wrong. Though what you're describing sounds much more like the phenomenon of former urbanites or their kids moving out of the city environs to provincial towns and villages due to a different set of pressures.
Not at all - the option if you can't self build is a house on an estate. Anywhere in the greater dublin within an hours drive you are talking big money for one of those - more than the actual Dublin Suburbs - way out of the league of the average person. Unless you're going to tie it in with a massive increase in the amount of affordable housing and at the same time increase the max earning levels to qualify.


What I'm talking about is the need to actually plan rural communities rather than just accept whatever happens there as happening there and to hell with the consequences. Other countries with far greater density of population and far lesser encourage building in cells of a dozen or more as it makes more sense when servicing the needs of the dwellers
Well I think this is the misconception - most one off houses are around the family home place (certainly where I am) - in cells exactly as you say. In fact, many councils insist that you are near the home place - if you're away from it, you have to justify it and show why it's the only suitable place. Families living in a small area mean far less reliance on provided services - home help, nursing homes, creches etc etc.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'd have to see your definition of "around the family home place" to see if we're talking about the same type of cell. I suspect our relative scales aren't calibrated.:)

Certain people I know from the fringes of a provincial town think nothing of an 80 mile round trip to go to the cinema. As a kid that's about the journey we'd take on our summer holidays.

[Macy]

I'm not sure I get you point - one off housing isn't sustainable but 80 mile commutes are?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Not my point at all. merely an aside to try and examine the size of your "cell".

My "cell" is pretty much the size of a suburban avenue of semis. I suspect yours is not.