Formation and team against Sweden

[gally]

Kenny


Joey OB, Dunne, O'Shea,


Finnan, Lawrence, S Reid, Duffer,


Ireland,


Keane, Doyle.


Subs, Kenny, Kilbane, Miller, A O.Brien, Elliott



This would make a change anyway....your thoughts...

[NeilMcD]

I would not play the 3 5 2 as I think its a disaster in my view


I would play this team


Given


O Brien O Brien Dunne Finnan



Lawrence Kavanagh Reid Duff


Doyle Keane




I would bring Ireland on at half time along with Stephen kelly also

[Karlos]

I was thinking along the lines of 4-4-2 with a change to how the midfield actually lines up. I think we've had width for a long time now but haven't had the personnel upfront to make it work effectively, so I'm purposing something different although purely as a matter of trying it out in a friendly:)

Given

O'Brien, OBrien, Dunne, Finnan

O'Shea

KIlbane, Kavanagh

Duff

Keane, Doyle

The idea would be to be solid at the back with O'Shea marshalling in front of the defence where any mistakes made are still retrivable. It also allows him to slot in any where along the back line should O'Brien or Finnan make a burst forward as you would like them to do in this type of formation to provide the width. Kilbane & Kavanagh will be the work horses, something both are particulary good at and I think both have a decent passing range. I'd like to see Duff get more of the ball in this position as it's infinetly much harder to pick him up or mark him out of the game here - as to do it requires a formation change from the opposition. Keane & Doyle will feed off the runs of Duff and longer passing range of Kavanagh.

Would be interested to see how it would work out.:)

[NeilMcD]

Good Post Karlos not sure about Kilbane and Kavanagh I would like to see Stephen Reid maybe as I think he has a great engine and is a better passer than Kilbane.

[colster]

I was thinking along the lines of 4-4-2 with a change to how the midfield actually lines up. I think we've had width for a long time now but haven't had the personnel upfront to make it work effectively, so I'm purposing something different although purely as a matter of trying it out in a friendly:)

Given

O'Brien, OBrien, Dunne, Finnan

O'Shea

KIlbane, Kavanagh

Duff

Keane, Doyle

The idea would be to be solid at the back with O'Shea marshalling in front of the defence where any mistakes made are still retrivable. It also allows him to slot in any where along the back line should O'Brien or Finnan make a burst forward as you would like them to do in this type of formation to provide the width. Kilbane & Kavanagh will be the work horses, something both are particulary good at and I think both have a decent passing range. I'd like to see Duff get more of the ball in this position as it's infinetly much harder to pick him up or mark him out of the game here - as to do it requires a formation change from the opposition. Keane & Doyle will feed off the runs of Duff and longer passing range of Kavanagh.

Would be interested to see how it would work out.:)


I don't think we've had true width for a while now. A.Reid on the right didn't give us much width. I think one of our problems has been a left footed right winger and a right footed left back.
Wingers don't neccessarily have to whip in high crosses. A good low cross is nearly as good as a high one. I think we have players in Keane, Elliott and maybe Doyle to lose their markers and get onto a low cross.

[bawn79]

Given (c)

Finnan OBrien Dunne Harte

Ireland Reid Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

Wouldve like to see McCarthy in the squad to see how he fares out at centre-half.
Maybe bring on OBrien for Harte later on and move finnan across to see if that would work (I doubt it) and Lawrence for Ireland, need to start putting together a midfield partnership so give reid and kavanagh the 90mins.
Give Kenny a half as well and have Keane or Dunne as vice-captain.

[colster]

My side would be

Given(C)

Finnan O'Brien Dunne Harte

Lawrence Reid Kavanagh Duff

Doyle Keane

I think thats a well balanced side.

[zinedineontour]

My side would be

Given(C)

Finnan O'Brien Dunne Harte

Lawrence Reid Kavanagh Duff

Doyle Keane

I think thats a well balanced side.

yeah would go for the above myself ..

[Stuttgart88]

I'd probably go with Neil's XI for this game, or Colster's (though I have the usual doubts about Harte) but, like Karlos, I think we could give up some of our usual width, build a solid midfield and have an advanced midfielder play off the front two. Classic 4-3-1-2. Kav holding, flanked by S. Reid and AN Other on the left, Duff free with Robbie & Doyle upfront.

Steve Reid has to be in on current form. My only concern about the 3 man midfield is that it'd be more than likely to involve Kilbane on the left of the 3, with Duff playing the free role. I just feel KK's days as an automatic starter are gone.

Lots of options really. We have loads of players capable of adding some guile behind the front 2 (Duff, A. Reid, McGeady, Ireland, Kavanagh or Robbie even) but maybe we can bring the best out of any of these in our usual formation.

[NeilMcD]

Well Stuttgart I play Robbie just behind myself and Kevin Doyle on Pro Evoluation and it won me the World Cup.

[Stuttgart88]

Well Stuttgart I play Robbie just behind myself and Kevin Doyle on Pro Evoluation and it won me the World Cup.There you go!
Robbie drops so deep anyway it's hard to say that he couldn't play with, say, Doyle & Elliott as more orthodox forwards.

By and large I'd say just set the team out as 4-4-2 but if they can all develop an understanding and play as a team then there's no reason why the shape of the team should be rigid throughout a game. I think we've got some pretty decent players. I think a Lawrence -Reid - Kav - Duff midfield has a good look to it.

[Karlos]

I don't think we've had true width for a while now. A.Reid on the right didn't give us much width. I think one of our problems has been a left footed right winger and a right footed left back.
Wingers don't neccessarily have to whip in high crosses. A good low cross is nearly as good as a high one. I think we have players in Keane, Elliott and maybe Doyle to lose their markers and get onto a low cross.

I diasgree slightly with this, but only slightly!;) . I feel we've always had width in our game it just hasn't been utilised effectively or has been shut down by the opposition as it has with Duff so many times in the last campaign. It really doesn't matter which foot the player uses as the concept of width is to stretch the opposition & open up the middle of the park to runners. The Arsenal Team before this season was probably one of the greatest teams at utilising width and they played two right footers on the left wing in Henry & Pires. :eek:

When that outlet is shut out of our game we have absolutely no creativity down the middle of the team i.e. we don't have a Scholes or a Sheringham or a Lampard. I feel O'Brien and Finnan could give us the same level of width we have recieved and Duff could move inside where it's difficult to pick him up and be our playmaker without destabiling our central midfield defensive duties. Our forward players from what I have seen of them, thrive off running onto balls inbetween defenders that Duff could feed.

We have a lively attacking option that should be difficult to pick up however when we insist on constantly going wide to try and get balls swung into the box either at height or low, they are far easier to pick up or the crosser gets shut down very early as has been happening with Duff (who is undoubtedly a world class crosser) making us need to pass inside to our uncreative centre.

In essence the change I'm initiating is that when Finnan gets shut down wide, the ball is coming into a talented player in Duff as opposed to what happened in the last campaign when the balls came back into Keane, Kavanagh or Kilbane to play sideways or backwards.

As i said, it's just a thought and something I'd like to see explored but not in a qualifying game. However I fully expect us to go 4-4-2 and I think the team you selcted Colster is proabaly the one we'll see:)

[jorge]

...........................Given

.............A.O'Brien Dunne

Finnan Harte

......................O'Brien

..........S.Reid Duff

......................Ireland

................Doyle Robbie

this would be the team if we could play football but unfortunately we play the british style,hoofing the ****ing thing.:mad:

[NeilMcD]

Given

McCarthy Dunne

Finnan Harte

O'Brien

S.Reid Duff

Ireland

Doyle Robbie

Mc Carthy is not in the squad.

[colster]

I diasgree slightly with this, but only slightly!;) . I feel we've always had width in our game it just hasn't been utilised effectively or has been shut down by the opposition as it has with Duff so many times in the last campaign. It really doesn't matter which foot the player uses as the concept of width is to stretch the opposition & open up the middle of the park to runners. The Arsenal Team before this season was probably one of the greatest teams at utilising width and they played two right footers on the left wing in Henry & Pires. :eek:

When that outlet is shut out of our game we have absolutely no creativity down the middle of the team i.e. we don't have a Scholes or a Sheringham or a Lampard. I feel O'Brien and Finnan could give us the same level of width we have recieved and Duff could move inside where it's difficult to pick him up and be our playmaker without destabiling our central midfield defensive duties. Our forward players from what I have seen of them, thrive off running onto balls inbetween defenders that Duff could feed.

We have a lively attacking option that should be difficult to pick up however when we insist on constantly going wide to try and get balls swung into the box either at height or low, they are far easier to pick up or the crosser gets shut down very early as has been happening with Duff (who is undoubtedly a world class crosser) making us need to pass inside to our uncreative centre.

In essence the change I'm initiating is that when Finnan gets shut down wide, the ball is coming into a talented player in Duff as opposed to what happened in the last campaign when the balls came back into Keane, Kavanagh or Kilbane to play sideways or backwards.

As i said, it's just a thought and something I'd like to see explored but not in a qualifying game.:)

I think all this talk about formations is wrong. We should play in a way that is comfortable to the players and gives them the best platform to excel in.
We have 4 very good wingers (Duff, A.Reid, Lawrence, McGeady) and good attacking full backs (Finnan, Harte). 4-4-2 is the best option. 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 is another but we should use the wingers we have.

[Stuttgart88]

we should use the wingers we have.The point I've been trying to make is that during the last campaign with Keane & KK in central midfield, our midfield was nothing but a vehicle to get the ball out wide. As we had no threat through the centre it was easy for the opposition to negate our wide players. One possible solution to this is to have a more solid midfield three with a creative player just ahead of them. Just a thought. If I could pick one major tactical weakness in the last campaign it was our inability to create anything whatsoever from central midfield and rectifying this is a big challenge.

[shakermaker1982]

We have to use our wingers, its the one area we are overloaded with talent. Our only real weakness is an outstanding centre half. Our defence has always been my concern, lapses in concentration has cost cost us dearly.

I'd go for a 442

Given

O Brien O Brien Dunne Finnan

Lawrence S Reid Ireland Duff

Doyle Keano

I have gone for youth and got rid of the old guard but now is the time to have faith in the young lads. The friendly with Sweden is time to try them out and see how they fare against a team preparing for the World Cup.

[Karlos]

The point I've been trying to make is that during the last campaign with Keane & KK in central midfield, our midfield was nothing but a vehicle to get the ball out wide. As we had no threat through the centre it was easy for the opposition to negate our wide players. One possible solution to this is to have a more solid midfield three with a creative player just ahead of them. Just a thought. If I could pick one major tactical weakness in the last campaign it was our inability to create anything whatsoever from central midfield and rectifying this is a big challenge.

That's basically what I was trying to say in a far more round-about cyrptic way! :) :D

It's an option we should explore even if it's only to find out it doesn't suit us. I'd hate to see us make the same mistakes again.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe the answer is as simple has having Steven Reid in midfield. He has all the running power of Kilbane & uses the ball better.

[NeilMcD]

I agree Stuttgart I think that Reid could be the key in this campaign I think a midfield of Kavanagh and Reid in the centre is solid and a good blend of experience and athleticism. It is also on form at the moment too.

[pete]

Given
Finnan, O Brien, Dunne, O'Shea
Reid Kavanagh Ireland Duff
Doyle Keane

Subs:
O'Brien for Finnan or O'Shea
Morrison for Keane

Squad shows how poor we really are. 2nd string team is hopelessly inexperienced or just not good enough. Midfield is especially poor. I am basing this on newbies being completely unproven

I agree with comments that Staunton should have added a few exytra players to the squad to add more competition in training.

[Paddy Garcia]

A few have called for Kavanagh, and I can't see him as a regular first teamer, even though he is playing well at the moment. He must be 33 and I doubt will improve much now.

Like Holland & Kinsella and others he looked much better playing next to Keane.

Better off trying O'Brien there, partnered by Steven Reid. Kavanagh is a great squad player.

[Naitch]

Given

J.O'Brien Dunne O'Shea Harte

Finnan S.Reid Kilbane Duff

Keane Doyle


I personally think this is the best team

[colster]

The point I've been trying to make is that during the last campaign with Keane & KK in central midfield, our midfield was nothing but a vehicle to get the ball out wide. As we had no threat through the centre it was easy for the opposition to negate our wide players. One possible solution to this is to have a more solid midfield three with a creative player just ahead of them. Just a thought. If I could pick one major tactical weakness in the last campaign it was our inability to create anything whatsoever from central midfield and rectifying this is a big challenge.

There were a number of reasons for our failure to get some width to our game.
We didn't get any width because the team was totally unbalanced.
To gain some width there is a vital triangle between full back - central midfield and winger. Our triangles on both sides of the pitch just didn't work because the balance and passing wasn't right.
On the left the O'Shea, Kilbane,Duff triangle was totally unbalanced.
We had a right footed LB and Kilbane who hasn't the nous of passing quality for a CM. The link up just didn't work to set someone free.
The Right side worked a bit better because we had Finnan and Keane but A.Reid was left footed. It would have worked a lot better with a right footed winger.
I could go into this a lot more but basically what I'm saying is that the reason our wingers did not work was down to our failure rather than the oppositions defence.
Of course we will run into defences that will target this but I think we could have a good blend of creative CM and dangerous wing play.

[Stuttgart88]

Agree with you toatlly re-balance. Our balance, and the fact that throughout the team there were effective partnerships and players complementing each other was one of the reasons the WC02 qualification campaign was such a success. Left footers on the left, a ball winner & a ball user in midfield, etc. etc.

Anyway, reading the papers online this morning I though The Examiner covered yesterday's press conference best, talking about Carr, Kennedy, Doherty, saying Lee was in the squad until Tuesday and so on.

Here's an interesting extract:

Staunton said he would be using the time together to acquaint his squad with what looks like being a more flexible tactical approach, particularly away from home.

“It’s not rocket science,” he said. “We’re not going to be doing anything drastic. But we’ll show them one or two ideas and try and get into their heads that we’re going to be a little bit more flexible. Flexibility in terms of formation, players, everything.

“When you look at the stats, we haven’t won a serious away game for the best part of 20 years. That’s something we have to address. We know what we can do with a 4-4-2 system but maybe we might have to tinker going away from home. Looking at the group, I think all the teams we’re going to play against play 4-4-2, so if we get an advantage by changing it away from home, we’ll use it.”

[Over the post]

That is a good article in the Examiner. Staunton's explanation for including Gary Breen (a bit of experience) makes some sense.

I agree that sorting out a central midfield paring is vital, I think Kavanagh and S Reid would be the safest bet for starters, although the younger lads such as Ireland, J O'Brien and even Garvan should be given the chance to stake their claims.

[londonirish17]

Given (c)

Finnan OBrien Dunne Harte

Ireland Reid Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

Wouldve like to see McCarthy in the squad to see how he fares out at centre-half.
Maybe bring on OBrien for Harte later on and move finnan across to see if that would work (I doubt it) and Lawrence for Ireland, need to start putting together a midfield partnership so give reid and kavanagh the 90mins.
Give Kenny a half as well and have Keane or Dunne as vice-captain.



Seems to be the best option available...

[eirebhoy]

Given

Kelly O'Brien Dunne Finnan

O'Brien Reid Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

[gustavo]

Given

Finnan O'Brien Dunne O'Shea

Reid Kilbane Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

[tetsujin1979]

Given
O'Brien..Dunne..O'Brien..Finnan
S.Reid..Kavanagh..Ireland..Duff
Keane..Doyle

[Littlest Hobo]

Given

O'Brien Dunne O'Brien O'Shea

Finnan Reid Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Given

O'Brien Dunne O'Brien O'Shea

Finnan Reid Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle


These would be the 11 players I'd pick as well. However, I would put Finnan (who is a natural defender) at right back and Joey O'Brien (who is a natural midfielder) on the right side of midfield.

[livehead1]

maybe ireland should not start, at the moment he cant get in the city side. he is, i feel a player with great potential but not a very good player currently. a bit hot and cold, you dont know what performance he is going to turn in. to bring him on for half an hour i feel is the most likely scenario, he needs to improve and rapidly for us, unfair on him, he will be a quality player but hes not as good as some of the other midfielders in the squad.

[livehead1]

A few have called for Kavanagh, and I can't see him as a regular first teamer, even though he is playing well at the moment. He must be 33 and I doubt will improve much now.

Like Holland & Kinsella and others he looked much better playing next to Keane.

Better off trying O'Brien there, partnered by Steven Reid. Kavanagh is a great squad player.

kavanagh does not need to improve, he aint 33 and he is a quality player, saw him today against spurs and he was a match for davids and carrick, a mystery why he has not been in the premiership for the last 5 years, he is a very key player for us, he will start all the games if hes fit, guarenteed

[tricky_colour]

Some interesting combinations suggested, it's pretty clear which players
are in virtually every team, I expect we will see some tinkering with perhaps
a game of two halfs so to speak.
I am not 100% sure what team I would pick but I guess those who are
holding down regular first team places in Premiership clubs (that includes
Reading as far as I am concerned) are going to be pretty hard to leave out
of the final selection. Thats more than eleven players unfortunately (or fortunately
depending on how you look at it).
Anyways I am really loooking forward to the game, just hope I get to see it,
it's on Sky Sports 2 in the UK but it clashes with and England and Wales game
so it ain't going to be easy.

[el punter]

Would like to see Stephen Elliott get an extended run in the game - fitness permitting. We know what Robbie can do, let him take a rest.

The over-reliance on Duff and Keane is detrimental, and under Kerr there was just no plan B without the lads in the latter games.

[tetsujin1979]

maybe ireland should not start, at the moment he cant get in the city side. he is, i feel a player with great potential but not a very good player currently. a bit hot and cold, you dont know what performance he is going to turn in. to bring him on for half an hour i feel is the most likely scenario, he needs to improve and rapidly for us, unfair on him, he will be a quality player but hes not as good as some of the other midfielders in the squad.
That's a little unfair on Ireland, you have to remember this is his first season in senior football, and he was only in the side in the first place because Reyna got injured. He impressed so much during his run in the side, that he stayed in the senior squad. He was out of the side recently because he played for the reserves in the Manchester Senior Cup 2 weeks ago, and was on the bench against Villa yesterday. With Riera coming in on loan, Musampa has been moved into central midfield alongside Barton, which was Ireland's position. Musampa's loan is up this summer and I suspect it won't be turned into a permanent move. I expect him to be a match day 16 member (although not necessarily a constant starter) next season. All in all, not bad for a 19 year old.

[dr_peepee]

Exactly how old is steven Ireland? A couple of web sites have him being born in '88 which make him 17 going on 18... Is he that young?

[eirebhoy]

Exactly how old is steven Ireland? A couple of web sites have him being born in '88 which make him 17 going on 18... Is he that young?
22/08/1986.

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting that you think Killer will be in central midfield, as another selection above had aswell. In my view this was the single biggest tactical failing of the last campaign, Paris (against a weakened rookie French midfield) excepted. We simply MUST have someone who can use the ball better than KK in this position. No?

Steve Reid has all of KK's atheltic ability to run, tackle & track back but is far better equipped for a central position. And I hope that Liam Miller was looking at Fabregas' performance on Tuesday just to learn how you don't need to be tough to control the midfield.

[Risteard]

------------------------Given-------------------
Finnan-------Dunne----------O'Shea------Harte/OBrien
S.Reid-------Kav-----------Ireland---------Duff--
-------------Doyle---------Keane---------------

[colster]

oh and y the hell do we only have 2 friendies wen we have no world cup to worry about , new blood needs to be tried time big! and we r full of rookies now and a new manager , i think we need a us cup or sumting

I think there may be a game in May but I'd forget about a US Cup type competition. The players need to be fresh for the start of the EC Qualifiers.
3 games is about all we're going to get to blood new players.

[colster]

------------------------Given-------------------
Finnan-------Dunne----------O'Shea------O'Brien
S.Reid-------Kav-----------Ireland---------Duff--
-------------Doyle---------Keane---------------

I think we need to get a balance back into the side. O'Brien is right footed. He shouldn't play left back. I think Kilbane should be tried there. Harte is also someone we should look at again.

[Risteard]

Ya, just edited there colster.
Was trying to get a team of our best players in their best positions + the new talent.
Doesn't look like too bad a team then but Harte would be the better option i suppose.

[greatbleddyman]

Would love to see him get a run out in his natural position in centre-mid. He has the strength, talent and athleticism to do a great job. His performances for Sheffield Wednesday last season on loan in centre-mid were outstanding. Hope Bolton don't pigeon hole him as a right back

[Irish_Praha]

Since the last world cup I have been saying (on soccercentral) that Kilbane should be given an extended run at left back and four years later nobody has staked a claim to that position. He's not a CMF player and Duff just has to play at LMF so if he is to have future at international level it has to be at LB. Looking at the other options for that position he could be considered the best choice:

Clive Clarke - had high hopes he would be the next Steve Finnan moving up from the lower leagues to prove himself as a solid wing back but he hasn't had a look in at West Ham this season.

Harte - we know his positives and negatives - good option against weaker teams

O'Shea - this is not his natural position - being rightfooted makes it difficult for him

Painter - a good prospect but that's all for now

S. Kelly - see O'shea and Painter

D. Murphy - was tried out at LB for Sunderland reserves but I think he is a much better playing as a striker and would be far behind others for the LB position.

Finnan - great player that needs to be kept at RB

I've had a few Grimbergen so I'm sure I've forgotten a few others :D but for me our LB needs to be left footed to keep the team balanced and Kilbane might be the answer. Maybe he will be sh!te but it's worth a try for a few friendly games. We would have great pace on the left with him and Duff and if he was a success Duff might have the confidence to play like he used to a few years ago.

Edited to add:
Staunton's lack of managerial experience is a worry to me but as LB is one of the positions that needs to be urgently sorted out I have some confidence that, if there is a player with the proper qualities, he will see it as he has played in this position for Ireland and a great Liverpool side. Of course CMF and a decent CB pairing need to be sorted out too. Dunne and A. O'Brien are playing well for thier clubs so hopefully they can form a good partnership for Ireland and McCarthy and McShane or others can eventually provide good cover.