View Full Version : Dublin Groundshare Debate
monutdfc
17/02/2006, 1:33 PM
Both Gerry and Felim are gone, and O'Reilly actually spoke against it very strongly. Gerry may be persauded to stay on but Felim is 100% gone. In my view Shels and the FAI are spreading rumours that are no where near the truth, in about 8 weeks or so I would guess we will all have a better picture of what is happening. Shels seem to give the impression its a done deal, and I may be wrong here, I am sure I will be quoted if I am, but I don't see this passing as it is currently on the table.
Is this for real?
Sounds like Ollie and Delaney (the most unlikely bedfellows) are trying to ride roughshod over Bohs.
If Cuffe and O'Reilly are gone, and both are against the groundshare proposal, then who is sponsoring the proposal within Bohs? And if nobody is, then why are Ollie and Delaney so confident?
Witholding grant money might be a stick, but as someone poste above it's not early a big enough stick to force Bohs to sell their half their ground for a fraction of its value.
Is this for real?
Sounds like Ollie and Delaney (the most unlikely bedfellows) are trying to ride roughshod over Bohs.
If Cuffe and O'Reilly are gone, and both are against the groundshare proposal, then who is sponsoring the proposal within Bohs? And if nobody is, then why are Ollie and Delaney so confident?
Witholding grant money might be a stick, but as someone poste above it's not early a big enough stick to force Bohs to sell their half their ground for a fraction of its value.
but they aren't GONE
ARE THEY????
they stepped down - no one stepped in - I assume their still negotiating away as they were before
NY Hoop
17/02/2006, 1:41 PM
Work hours would be lower & expense account would be bigger so i wouldn't turn it down.
The only reason City fans are thinking of move from Tuners Cross in the future is the ground is too tight & no options to build offices or bar at the location to bring in extra revenue. Aside from that i think eL clubs need to be more realistic with facilities & build economical seated covered stands. Some projects are too expensive for teams with 1000-2000 average crowds.
What about buying the horse shoe bar or coming to some arrangement with them?! There is room at the back of the seats at the other end of the ground though. Agree with your last 2 sentences though.
KOH
Da Real Rover
17/02/2006, 4:42 PM
shels have had tolka for about 15 years and havent made any significant dent into the local area. and this with their most successful side at a time when domestic football is on an up.
why would we be worried about them in tallaght after a headstart of nearly 10 years? we have the youth system out there. we have the training grounds there. there is the basketball side. not forgetting the scholarship scheme in tallaght it.
moving to tallaght would harm them much more than us. pats are at least on a luas line from their heartland.
unless that rant was an attempt to try and use the word 'shams' as often as possible in some attepmpt to cause friction in an important debate.
Dont be so fukcin pathetic, you know how your always taking the p!ss out of shels for the youth of their fans, did it ever occur to you on why thier fanbase is so young?? hmm did you?? As is i said before when it comes to the majority of Irish people it is the immediate success that they follow regardless of your links with the local Tallaght community or the clubs illustrious heritage. Im not sh!t stirring just pointing out the obvious that if a (currently) more successfull team, like shels, enter Tallaght the NEW young fan will be spirited away to their support. Im not on about now im on about when these young ones grow up they will be supporting Shels because they have a better team.
Dont be so fu**** pathetic
Moderator warning :Please try to debate without attacking people.
Roverstillidie
17/02/2006, 10:34 PM
Dont be so fukcin pathetic, you know how your always taking the p!ss out of shels for the youth of their fans, did it ever occur to you on why thier fanbase is so young?? hmm did you?? As is i said before when it comes to the majority of Irish people it is the immediate success that they follow regardless of your links with the local Tallaght community or the clubs illustrious heritage. Im not sh!t stirring just pointing out the obvious that if a (currently) more successfull team, like shels, enter Tallaght the NEW young fan will be spirited away to their support. Im not on about now im on about when these young ones grow up they will be supporting Shels because they have a better team.
have you been watching EL football at all in the last 10 years?
shelbourne have spent unprecedented money on their team, rumoured to be over 30k a week net. they get only slightly more in their home stadium with their own bar and facilities than the worst Rovers side ever, playing in our mortal enemies stadium even after their european exploits.
Shels are leaving tolka because it has failed to get them the crowds they were expecting as a smaller Dublin team, never mind as the most successful side in the land of the past 10 years.
they have a young support because they hit the schools in the area hard and successfully with the idea in mind they would bring mates, fathers etc. this hasnt worked as they would have wished.
mid 90's rovers successful, RDS saw big crowds. late 90's pats, richer choc a bloc. bozos flirted with success in the early naughties, jodi was packed. shels winning recently, 700 at games. they havent succeded off the pitch, and for all your bluster, they dont seem to think they will in the immediate future.
dont lecture us dubs on the dynamics of football in our town, you look like the ignorant bog rover you are coming across as.
thomas
18/02/2006, 2:55 AM
Dont be so fukcin pathetic, you know how your always taking the p!ss out of shels for the youth of their fans, did it ever occur to you on why thier fanbase is so young?? hmm did you?? As is i said before when it comes to the majority of Irish people it is the immediate success that they follow regardless of your links with the local Tallaght community or the clubs illustrious heritage. Im not sh!t stirring just pointing out the obvious that if a (currently) more successfull team, like shels, enter Tallaght the NEW young fan will be spirited away to their support. Im not on about now im on about when these young ones grow up they will be supporting Shels because they have a better team.
Appaling post. Full of the delusional rhetoric of the shels fans. Tip: Dont go onto shels web.
CollegeTillIDie
18/02/2006, 7:46 AM
What next? Bray , Dublin City and UCD to groundshare?
bohs til i die
18/02/2006, 8:33 AM
but they aren't GONE
ARE THEY????
they stepped down - no one stepped in - I assume their still negotiating away as they were before
they are no longer directors of Bohemian FC
Cuffe may continue with negotiations on the groundshare until the deal is finalised and presented to the members but I reckon that will be his last official involvement with the club for some time
Da Real Rover
18/02/2006, 11:05 AM
have you been watching EL football at all in the last 10 years?
shelbourne have spent unprecedented money on their team, rumoured to be over 30k a week net. they get only slightly more in their home stadium with their own bar and facilities than the worst Rovers side ever, playing in our mortal enemies stadium even after their european exploits.
Shels are leaving tolka because it has failed to get them the crowds they were expecting as a smaller Dublin team, never mind as the most successful side in the land of the past 10 years.
they have a young support because they hit the schools in the area hard and successfully with the idea in mind they would bring mates, fathers etc. this hasnt worked as they would have wished.
mid 90's rovers successful, RDS saw big crowds. late 90's pats, richer choc a bloc. bozos flirted with success in the early naughties, jodi was packed. shels winning recently, 700 at games. they havent succeded off the pitch, and for all your bluster, they dont seem to think they will in the immediate future.
dont lecture us dubs on the dynamics of football in our town, you look like the ignorant bog rover you are coming across as.
But can you not see how shels have attracted kids and the youth to their games and do you not think that if Shels enter Tallaght they will mop up aot of the youth in the area. I know that Shels will not take your current fans from you, im not disputing that at all, but what i am saying is that kids that currently support no team will rather support a (currently) more successfull team in their area than a mediocre team. I also know how shels have had desperate crowds even with their success, but imagine what their crowds would be like if the kids didnt go to their games, that is their fanbase and if they enter Tallaght they will target the kids yet again and at your expense because they should be your future fans.
Billy Lord
19/02/2006, 1:12 AM
Interesting debate. I would feel that Rovers can achieve at least moderate improvement in their support by moving to Tallaght on the basis that:
a) There's good craic - Rovers fans are the most vociferous and colourful in the EL
b) The club has developed strong under-age roots in Tallaght
c) The stadium will be relatively modern
d) With proactive marketing techniques now in operation at the club, it's probable that they can attract a high level of sponsorship
e) There is a sizeable amount of people who feel an affinity to Rovers and - should Rovers offer a good day out - the likliehood is that the public will respond positively
Shels may have been highly successful in recent years, but there simply isn't the allure there that's comparable to what Shamrock Rovers can bring to Tallaght.
Rovers have the name, reputation and now a forward-thinking set-up that can exploit the situation.
This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of Shamrock Rovers.
sonofstan
19/02/2006, 9:33 AM
This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of Shamrock Rovers.
the word 'proactive' was a giveaway
sonofstan
19/02/2006, 10:42 AM
Nowhere has it even attempted to explain how, with two competing shows arriving in town, the low budget one is going to take more at the box-office than the one with the big name director and a cast full of stars.
Ollie as 'the big name director?' Fatty Arbuckle maybe ....
CollegeTillIDie
19/02/2006, 3:48 PM
Given the dearth of genuine football fans in the City of Dublin ( i.e. those who regularly attend EL games .. everyone else is a barstool potato) I think the Directors of Bohemians who are interested in groundsharing on a permanent basis with other clubs are merely taking care of business and examining the bottom line long term. It may not be what the fans like or can even desire to get their head around, but the fact remains if Bohs are to remain full time , then schemes such as groundsharing with a reasonably large other Dublin club, have to at least be considered. The alterntive of trying to get 6,000 punters into Dalyer every fortnight won't happen even if Bohs were to win the Champions League...
Dr.Nightdub
19/02/2006, 4:03 PM
As a matter of fact, outside of a certain EL football cognoscenti I would wager that both teams would at this stage be regarded as northside teams, both having played most of their football on the northside for the last twenty years or so. The aforementioned football cognoscenti, in terms of loyalty, are probably for the most part spoken for, the big game that is next in play is for the patronage and loyalty of those who know **** all about the EL. Almost by definition the majority of these are far more likely to gravitate towards the more successful of the two teams. The real danger for Rovers is that, all things being equal, in the short to early medium term the more successful team is likely to be Shelbourne.
Put simply, don't overestimate the local roots angle. A significantly more successful side in Tallaght is likely to enjoy a significantly better support. I know from a moral point of view that it may be important to tell yourselves otherwise but the typical Irish punter wants success and glamour and whoever can offer the most of that in Tallaght will pretty quickly come to be regarded as the local team and will be considered synonymous with the area.
Fair points, but you could substitute "Bohs" wherever it says "Rovers" and "Dalymount" wherever it says "Tallaght" and the points would be just as valid.
Which begs the question: why are Bohs still talking to Ollie?
bohs til i die
19/02/2006, 6:47 PM
Fair points, but you could substitute "Bohs" wherever it says "Rovers" and "Dalymount" wherever it says "Tallaght" and the points would be just as valid.
Which begs the question: why are Bohs still talking to Ollie?
because the board and the members want to see what deal is on the table before making a decision
Slash/ED
19/02/2006, 6:52 PM
most people dont give a toss about shels
Post of the year, for comic genius it will never be matched
Most people in dublin don't give a toss about eL football.
Bohs clearly in the strongest position here.
The biggest issue i see with the proposed state funding of Dalymount improvements is that they keep mentioning 12-15k all seater stadium when its clearly impossible to get that many seats into remaining 3 sides of the ground. 12k might be doable but no chance i can see of 15k...?
chippie0001
19/02/2006, 8:16 PM
Which begs the question: why are Bohs still talking to Ollie?
We may as well talk until we hear the full details on how the FAI plan to shaft us. Then we can decide. The only good thing out of this farce is that it focus's the mind of our members on where we are and what we have to do. If this deal turns out good for us, hide the laughter, well then it will have all been worthwhile.
Schumi
20/02/2006, 2:49 PM
The flipside is that Pats flog Richmond Park and close the door on Shels to Tallaght and then talks between us and them on Dalymount fall apart. Then its a whole different forkful of ****. Best case scenario for Shels, 2-3 seasons renting at Dalymount concurrent with and followed by a very tight budget for the playing side and move out to the middle of nowhere to, most likely, a half finished ground and a greatly diminished (hard to believe its possible, I know) support. In other-words a period of great austerity and diminished prestige. Thats if they are lucky. Other possibilities include a long long term as tenants at Dalymount (and believe me they will have to fork out more than Rovers) or else Ollie will give up the ghost and take his profit from the sale of Tolka and either folds them up or else lets them take their chances, a la Kilcoyne.
Is Tolka sold already or as good as? If it is, the above scenario makes perfect sense. If Pats share Tallaght, then Bohs have Shels over a barrel and can leave them homeless for a (possibly long) period of time with no real renting options other than Dalymount. An enviable position!
Yeah but Tallght's miles away and Pats moving there is even further ahead (if at all)
Is Tolka sold already or as good as? If it is, the above scenario makes perfect sense. If Pats share Tallaght, then Bohs have Shels over a barrel and can leave them homeless for a (possibly long) period of time with no real renting options other than Dalymount. An enviable position!
Word has it that the Tolka land deal was done 3-4 years ago, giving Shels a lump sum advance that they gambled on CL success. That success has eluded them as has growth of other income streams and they are now on the verge of implosion, hence fairy godmother Delaney stepping in to save Ollie's bacon by waving a pointy stick in our direction.
John and Ollie can fúck right off if they think they can steamroller us, while Shels will be made welcome as future tenants (provided they can outbid Dublin City).
anto eile
20/02/2006, 7:02 PM
Post of the year, for comic genius it will never be matched
read the rest of my post :rolleyes:
Slash/ED
20/02/2006, 10:39 PM
read the rest of my post :rolleyes:
It'd only be an anti climax after such a monumental opener. Well done.
thomas
21/02/2006, 12:16 PM
Word has it that the Tolka land deal was done 3-4 years ago, giving Shels a lump sum advance that they gambled on CL success. That success has eluded them as has growth of other income streams and they are now on the verge of implosion, hence fairy godmother Delaney stepping in to save Ollie's bacon by waving a pointy stick in our direction.
John and Ollie can fúck right off if they think they can steamroller us, while Shels will be made welcome as future tenants (provided they can outbid Dublin City).
Bohs standing their ground... that'll be a first...
Seriously though, I hope thats how it plays out.
NY Hoop
21/02/2006, 2:33 PM
Post of the year, for comic genius it will never be matched
Post of the year for the truth of it.
KOH
Slash/ED
21/02/2006, 4:29 PM
Post of the year for the truth of it.
KOH
So you believe that nobody cares about Shelbourne? :D :D :D
Well I'd hate to see what it'd be like if we were disliked if that's the case.
anto eile
21/02/2006, 9:04 PM
slash/ed
Rovers fans havent cared about shels for the past 50 years or so. for as long as i remember youve been the least important of our rival dublin clubs.
everyone hates ollie byrne.most people hate your pr!ck of a manager.
but the rest of your club (especially your unbelievably gimp-like support). i and most people i know dont give you a second thought. and cork hating you doesnt matter
thomas- if boez tell shels to fvck off and oily doesnt go ahead with his plans to move to the middle of nowhere. it would be likely that hed turn his evil eyes towards tallaght. would you risk hoping the gypos tell him to fvck off if it means sharing with us is likely?
Student Mullet
21/02/2006, 10:36 PM
slash/ed
Rovers fans havent cared about shels for the past 50 years or so. for as long as i remember youve been the least important of our rival dublin clubs.Yeah, take that Shels!!
Slash/ED
22/02/2006, 5:35 PM
slash/ed
Rovers fans havent cared about shels for the past 50 years or so. for as long as i remember youve been the least important of our rival dublin clubs.
:D :D :D
thomas
22/02/2006, 9:14 PM
slash/ed
Rovers fans havent cared about shels for the past 50 years or so. for as long as i remember youve been the least important of our rival dublin clubs.
everyone hates ollie byrne.most people hate your pr!ck of a manager.
but the rest of your club (especially your unbelievably gimp-like support). i and most people i know dont give you a second thought. and cork hating you doesnt matter
thomas- if boez tell shels to fvck off and oily doesnt go ahead with his plans to move to the middle of nowhere. it would be likely that hed turn his evil eyes towards tallaght. would you risk hoping the gypos tell him to fvck off if it means sharing with us is likely?
Ollie and shels would be broke by the time that happens, anyway their actual plan b is a shared stadium with the GAA in Fingal somewhere.
Roverstillidie
23/02/2006, 12:10 AM
:D :D
no you are right, we hate you more than the bozo's :rolleyes:
small club, recent success, any animosity from us to you has always been directed to the players and olly. your fans and club are irrelevant. and it profoundly annoys you that you know its true.
Dodge
23/02/2006, 12:20 AM
OK Rovers and Shels fans don't ruin a good thread
Jerry The Saint
11/04/2006, 1:54 PM
Thought it might be best to move this out of the Q+A thread.
[Genesis] say it reflects government policy that a maximum two stadia in Dublin should be supported (although they might have stated that in the report). And they make no attempt to defend that policy. Yet Genesis is repeatedly cited, at least by media, as the source for this pearl of wisdom, and it is at least indirectly invoked by FAI and others who support 'radical' change.
Direct quote from John O'Donoghue claims that Government support for groundsharing is led by findings in the Genesis report.
"Such support was based on the plan to provide a soccer stadium for Tallaght which would serve as a viable long-term home for Shamrock Rovers Football Club. Indeed, given the significant funding likely to be required to complete the stadium, serious consideration must be given to the stadium actually accommodating two soccer clubs on a ground-sharing basis, a concept recommended for Dublin clubs in the recent Genesis Report on the Eircom League.
Issue Date Tue, Feb 07 06
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1556849&issue_id=13646
Genesis have now said that groundsharing is dealt with in the report to reflect
the stated government policy as communicated to us by the department officials.
So, in a sense, the government has created their own justification for groundsharing by having this policy in the Genesis report.
What would be the chances of the FAI realising the potential problem about Shels and offering a large cash sum to Bohs in order for them to allow ground share. Likely?
Well if Shels are selling their interset in Tolka, they shoud have piles of cash so won't need FAI money.
The FAi will then pay both clubs through grant aid. Apparently
Billy Lord
11/04/2006, 2:20 PM
So the government believe groundsharing is the way forward because Genesis says it's the way forward because the government says it's the way forward because . . .
No wonder the vast majority of Irish people don't want to know and see the EL as a joke league that's not worth supporting. Will anyone ever get a clue about running football in this country?
they know exactly what they're doing, genesis is merely the current flag of convenience to steamroller other plans
fck them anyway - theres so much opposition groups both ludicrous (the gaa) and real ones - that delaneys plan is stone dead
the only happy upshot is that shels are too now - which can only be good for the league as a whole.....
Dr.Nightdub
11/04/2006, 7:23 PM
The worrying thing is that Delaney's plan is far from stone dead, at least for the time being.
The ludicrous thing is that Genesis (if I remember rightly) criticised the League for being plunged into regular chaos by clubs' acting in naked self-interest. If that was the case before, it's gonna seem like a gentlemanly game of tiddlywinks compared to the dog-eat-dog mé féinism this groundsharing plan is unleashing.
As things stand, it suits us if the GAA moves into Tallaght as co-tenants of Rovers ahead of us, and on the other hand it suits Rovers if we get transplanted out of Richmond to Tallaght ahead of the GAA. So we're now in a situation where Rovers reckon Pats are "the SA for the GAA Nazi Party" (© DvB ;) ) and we're entitled to view tham as cheerleaders for the latterday Kilcoynes lurking around Richmond Park.
Throw the Bohs-Shels-Dalymount-Tolka-Abbotstown mess into the pot, season with bitterness from UCD and CHF at being publicly earmarked for a complete shafting and that whole festering stew is gonna thoroughly poison any appetite for co-operation around the League.
Thanks, Genesis. Any other improvements you'd care to suggest? :rolleyes:
thejollyrodger
11/04/2006, 8:56 PM
Word has it that the Tolka land deal was done 3-4 years ago, giving Shels a lump sum advance that they gambled on CL success. That success has eluded them as has growth of other income streams and they are now on the verge of implosion, hence fairy godmother Delaney stepping in to save Ollie's bacon by waving a pointy stick in our direction.
John and Ollie can fúck right off if they think they can steamroller us, while Shels will be made welcome as future tenants (provided they can outbid Dublin City).
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
chippie0001
11/04/2006, 9:10 PM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
Yeah thats it, success, one round further than another team and thats the reason people hate Shels :rolleyes: How do you know for a fact its lies, do you own the club?
CharlesThompson
11/04/2006, 10:41 PM
Decent debate involving Bohs supporters, Pat's supporters, Rovers supporters, etc. followed by Shels supporter throwing his lollipop out of the pram -"The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe." FFS.
Dazzy
11/04/2006, 11:01 PM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
What success:confused:
Roverstillidie
12/04/2006, 12:39 AM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
you havent had a fraction of the sucess in europe we have had and even the bohemian football and cricket club and cáwk have taken bigger scalps than you.
your club will die unless you remove your heads from your arses.
any answers to the questions? you are collecively so clued out to the running of your club its astonishing
manic da hoop
12/04/2006, 8:36 AM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
What's this? Somebody please help me!!! Did I really slip into a coma the night of the Shels-Depor game at Lansdowne, and then reawaken about eight months later without anyone informing me of Shels taking the European Cup?
Jerry The Saint
12/04/2006, 8:56 AM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
Jolly Rodger has enlightened me to the true nature of this important debate. In fairness, I think we would all want to have a good hard look at ourselves. (c) Pat Fenlon
NY Hoop
12/04/2006, 11:52 AM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
Dont flatter yourself. Nobody cares about shels. You have won 6 games in Europe. We've won 10. Will you bring more than 50 fans to Lithuania?
KOH
Schumi
12/04/2006, 12:49 PM
Complete Lies !! The country is so anti shels its incredible... just because we got sucess in Europe.
LOL. Always good for a laugh. :D
thejollyrodger
12/04/2006, 6:05 PM
Were going to make an example of that Lithuania side this season.
We made all of Europe sit up and take notice that an Irish club side is on the crest of breaking into the group stages of Europes priemer competition
Were going to make an example of that Lithuania side this season.
Always in our footsteps... :p
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.