Liam Brady Article in Sunday Tribune

[klein4]

found it meself!

[klein4]

Soccer


Beauty of the best
Mark Jones



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ASK yourself where you were on 6 September 1989. When Liam Brady was substituted after little more than a half hour against West Germany. When Lansdowne Road stopped for a few seconds to absorb the significance. When two opposites of the Irish game collided.

For devotees of elegance, perception and skill, it was as if someone had pointed out a rare flower to Jack Charlton, and he had crushed it underfoot. If Charlton hadn't already been embraced both by the national team's supporters who had travelled wide-eyed to the previous year's European Championship finals, and by a largely benign media, his decision would have been tantamount to heresy.

Because this wasn't just another player walking the lonely walk. This was Liam Brady. A legend at Arsenal when he was in his early 20s, a playmaker who masterminded two Serie A titles when Juventus were the best team in the best league in the world, a beam of light when Ireland were all too often in the dark, a cerebral midfielder who once scored the winning goal against Brazil. When Brady put his left foot on the ball and glanced up, it was as if time stood still.

There were harsh words in the dressing room at half-time.

He told Charlton in no uncertain terms what he thought of him, and Frank Stapleton had to intervene in an effort to defuse the situation, "Hold on, hold on, there's a game to be played here."

Stapleton was right, and the game continued as it inevitably does, but for Brady it was over, and he immediately announced his international retirement. His nemesis would inherit Ireland's new football kingdom.

Tomorrow, Brady, his family and some close friends, will gather at an Italian restaurant near his home in Brighton to mark his 50th birthday. When you're as steeped in the game as he is, and when you run Arsenal's youth development programme, there is no escape from talk of football. But take it that the conversation will also range over his passions for national hunt racing . . . he's one of the owners of Cerium who goes in next month's Arkle Chase at Cheltenham . . . and for golf. Take it as well that Jack Charlton won't be on the agenda.

"No, he won't. Look, if Jack wanted me out of the way, and if he stage-managed the situation by subbing me against West Germany, then it was diabolical. But that's in the past, and anyway, it's important to remember that I played some of my best football for Ireland under Jack. I admired him as a manager, he was decisive, he had a plan, he could handle pressure.

"Admittedly, there was no chemistry between us, and his style of football was completely alien to the way I believe the game should be played. But, no, I don't blame Jack for what he did, because that's just the way he is. I'm not sure he showed anyone any respect, but he got results that hadn't been achieved before. The players were desperate to get to major finals, and he led them."

Looking at Brady now, less intense than the slight, but commanding, figure who could fillet a defence with one stroke of that left foot, and much less intense than the gaunt manager who prowled the touchline at Celtic Park, it's hard to figure him for a rebel. Yet he reminds you that he walked out on Arsenal after just six months.

He had crossed a line with one of the coaches who then kept him back a couple of evenings a week from six to eight o'clock to clean the dressing rooms. So he came home that Christmas in 1971 and vowed not to return. "It wasn't as if I'd been sent back to Dublin because they had doubts over my ability. I'd kind of rebelled against the regime, rebelled against the excessive discipline by this one guy."

Like David O'Leary and Stapleton, and the other Arsenal kids with their dreams, he was homesick, but unlike the other kids, his football education was already more sophisticated.

His great uncle Frank had played for Ireland in the 1920s, his older brothers Pat and Ray were with Millwall and QPR respectively, while another brother Frank played for Shamrock Rovers.

The day before Ray lined out for Ireland against Austria in a European Nations Cup game, he brought Charlie Hurley up to the family home on Glenshesk Road in Whitehall. "It caused a major buzz around the place, all the kids were there knocking on the door. I was about seven or eight, I was awestruck, and that's when I really remember becoming obsessed with the whole thing.

Later, I used to play every Saturday for St Kevin's Boys and then go to watch League of Ireland on a Sunday.

"I was good, and I knew I was good, well, because you just know you are. I was confident, I had the whole thing mapped out in my head. I'd be in the first team at Arsenal when I was 18, and then I'd play for Ireland. Very confident, no doubts about myself."

Later, Ray Treacy would remember looking at the teenager on the morning of his international debut against the Soviet Union in 1974 and thinking that he had lost his bottle. "I was nervous alright, but I think they were good nerves, " Brady says. "I could sense a great belief in John Giles among the players. He'd changed the mindset when he got the manager's job, the inferiority complex had gone. We crucified them. We were aggressive . . . guys like Don Givens and Treacy, not me obviously . . . and we played some great football as well.

They kicked off, the ball came back to John and he passed it straight to me as if to say, 'Go on then, don't be frightened.'

And I wasn't."

That combination of confidence and a rebellious streak served him well as he became the leader of Arsenal's young orchestra. It helped him to acclimatise and then flourish in the demanding arena of the Italian game, and it surfaced again when Charlton grabbed the international team by the scruff of the neck.

During the qualifying campaign for the 1988 European finals, Charlton was trying to impose himself, to build a new side in his image, and Brady quickly sensed he was being picked reluctantly. "He couldn't leave me out because I was playing well, but I probably didn't do myself any favours. I accepted that I had to go along with what he wanted for the most part, yet I didn't toe the line completely. I might pass the ball near the edge of the box and he'd be shouting 'Get the ball up the effing pitch', and I'd pretend I didn't hear. It was that bit of rebellion that wouldn't allow me do it totally his way."

He elbowed a Bulgarian player in the 2-0 win at Lansdowne Road and was sent off.

That appeared to be that.

Brady was 32, Bulgaria would do what they had to do to reach the finals in their last game against Scotland, and Ireland would be out.

On the day of the BulgariaScotland match he was playing golf with Pat Jennings at South Herts outside London, and when they got back to the clubhouse, the barman had this strange look on his face. "You won't believe it, Scotland won 1-0. You're going to the European Championships."

[klein4]

Before anything else, he had to get on to the FAI about the four-match ban he had been handed by Uefa following the sending-off. He was told not to worry, an appeal was being sorted out, but he still contacted Giampiero Boniperti, the Juventus chairman, as well as the shipping magnate and owner of Sampdoria, Paolo Mantovani, to see if they could pull a few strings within Uefa.

Later, he travelled to Zurich for the appeal hearing with an FAI delegation which included the association's president at the time, Pat O'Brien, as well as Des Casey. "Pat was a lovely man, but he had a really strong Cork accent and in all honesty, I'd trouble understanding him, " Brady remembers. "Anyway, we go into this room with several Uefa officials from different countries and there were booths at the back of the room for the translators. Pat opens up our appeal and I wasn't too sure what he was saying, and I could see the translators shaking their heads and shrugging their shoulders.

"I'm worried obviously, but Des tells me everything's going to be fine. So then, Des is on his feet and he's really doing his best for me. 'Liam Brady has been a great player for Ireland, he's waited so long to get to this stage. What you have to appreciate is that Liam Brady is to Ireland what Michel Platini is to France, and what Diego Maradona is to Brazil.'

Now I'm laughing to myself and thinking, 'I've got no chance here'."

As it happened, the FAI got the best result in the circumstances and Brady's suspension was reduced to two games, but then a cruciate ligament injury cost him the chance of playing in a firstever finals tournament after 14 years. He limped through Germany, revelling in the team's performances, and probably had the most difficult job of all when Charlton asked him to get the players to bed after the 1-0 win over England in Stuttgart.

His work as a TV commentator at Italia '90 was a prelude to a sideline which has seen him become one of RTE's most prized analysts alongside Eamon Dunphy and Giles.

"Eamon acts in haste and never repents at leisure, " he says, "but it's rarely boring when he's around."

After the 0-0 draw against Egypt in Palermo when Ireland performed poorly and when no one appeared to have a clue how to break down the Egyptian defence, Charlton approached Brady in the team hotel where he was a having a beer with some of the players.

"Could've done with you tonight, " he said. A few minutes later, he was back at the table. "Only when you were at your best, mind." That was Charlton. He would say something generous, and then once he realised it might have seemed like a sign of weakness, he had to qualify it.

For a year I had lived with the possibility of Liam Brady's transfer to another club in the same way that, in the late '50s and early '60s, American teenagers had lived with the possibility of the impending Apocalypse. I knew it would happen, yet, even so, I allowed myself to hope f I had never felt so intensely about an Arsenal player: for five years he was the focus of the team.

Liam Brady was one of the best two or three passers of the last 20 years, and this in itself was why he was revered by every single Arsenal fan.

Nick Hornby, 'Fever Pitch' Brady, Stapleton, O'Leary and Graham Rix were the backbone of the Arsenal side of the late 1970s. Three FA Cup finals in a row, and one, sandwiched in the middle, a neverto-be-forgotten 3-2 win over Manchester United. A Cup Winners' Cup final as well, but no European silverware as Valencia came through after a penalty shoot-out.

Rix's failure in the lottery of sudden-death is probably remembered more vividly, but Brady's earlier miss haunted him for a while. "I'd wake up in a cold sweat thinking about why I didn't put it in the other corner. People talk to me now about a certain game I played in, or a certain goal I scored, and I've no memory of it. But I've never forgotten that penalty."

FACTFILE Born 13 February, 1956 Clubs Arsenal (1973. . .1980), Juventus (1980. . .1982), Sampdoria (1982. . .1984), Internazionale (1984. . .1986), Ascoli (1986. . .1987), West Ham (1987. . .1990) International Republic of Ireland, 72 caps, 9 goals;

Debut, 1974 v USSR; Final international, 1989 v West Germany Manager Celtic (1991 - 1993), Brighton & Hove Albion (1993 - 1995) Head of Youth Development and Academy Director at Arsenal (1996 - present) Honours 1979 FA Cup; 1979 PFA Player of the Year; 1981 and 1982 Italian Scudetto; FA Cup runner-up, 1978 and 1980; Cup Winners' Cup runner-up, 1980

copyright sunday tribune

[klein4]

JOHN GILES ON A GREEN GIANT

HOW quickly time goes. My abiding memory of Liam is still fresh. It was his "rst international match against the Soviet Union at Dalymount Park. He was only 18 at the time and had extremely limited experience playing for the Arsenal. You hear an awful lot about experience these days, about players being good enough to step up or not. Well, my experience of it is that when a player is of the right stuff he can cope with it easily and Liam proved that instantly.

He took to the international game like a duck to water.

During that match against the Soviet Union he looked as if he'd always been playing at that level. He played with an assurance and con"dence and that's only present with the real natural players. He was what we called a "street player" in Dublin in the old days. He learned his gift on the street and it was exceptional.

I once saw Liam play a match for Arsenal at Leeds. He was only a young fella but there are some things you can see right away with the greats.

They have time and space to use the ball and the more space and time the top-class player has, the more effective he can be. And Liam was effective.

He was up there with the best and I would certainly describe him as a beautiful player. He had this languid style when he didn't have the ball. He had this change of pace and surge so in other words he could go past people.

If you watch the top guys today they very rarely go past players. They don't have that ability but it's invaluable. It opens up everything. And Liam had no problem with the physical nature either because it's all about time and space.

Top-class players are like that.

If you make time and space you have very little contact.

He was also one of the most enjoyable players to play with in my career. You could give him the ball in very tight situations and he had this ability to create things, even then. Obviously with his dribbling and beautiful distribution with his left foot and a good shot, that always made him a danger to anyone he played against. So he had quite a lot of equipment and people knew it.

His best football, I believe, was in Italy. The people there always loved the artistic element in players and Liam would have naturally appealed to them. He was a big loss to Arsenal when he left. How could he not be? Any team would have been delighted to have him. He was very highly rated. He was a very entertaining player too, easy on the eye. He embodied all the things that people go to watch at a football match and he's one of the very few I would pay to watch.

From a young age he was a hero at Highbury. He was wherever he went and that's a real indicator of the talent he possessed.

He was Giles's natural successor as the brains of the international team, he had won the English PFA's Player of the Year award in 1979, and he was Arsenal's linchpin, but he was restless. If Arsenal finished in the top six of the league, if they made it into Europe or if they reached a cup final, the board was happy enough. At the time, his ambition was far greater than the club's.

Manchester United were an option and he and Dave Sexton talked terms over a private lunch at the Burlington Hotel where a nervous waiter had to be sworn to secrecy about the meeting. However, Italy had re-opened their borders to foreign players and eventually Juventus's advances proved to be the most alluring.

This was the Juventus which would boast Dino Zoff, Claudio Gentile, Gaetano Scirea, Antonio Cabrini, Marco Tardelli, Paolo Rossi and Roberto Bettega during Brady's two seasons in Turin.

A multi-talented group of players which dominated Serie A before driving Italy to World Cup success in 1982.

Initially, he sensed a doubt among the club's directors.

"Our first league game in the 1980-81 season was in Cagliari in September and it was boiling hot and I couldn't raise a gallop. But by this time I'd picked up some of the language and one of the directors was getting on the bus and asking how Inter Milan, who were the reigning champions, had done.

They'd won 4-0 and Inter had signed the Austrian Herbert Prohaska and I think he might have scored. So I heard the guy say, 'We made a mistake with our foreigner'. I remembered that when he was putting his arm around me at the end of the season after we'd won the championship."

Juventus managed to compensate for Rossi's suspension following a match-fixing scandal, but when Bettega had injury problems during Brady's second year, they were not as potent in front of goal. However, under their outstanding coach, Giovanni Trapattoni, another league title was in sight.

Then out of the blue, Brady got a call from Dennis Roach, an agent he knew in England, who said he might be able to help him get fixed up. "Fixed up about what, Dennis?", Brady asked him. "Don't you know?

Platini's in and you're out."

He couldn't quite take it in.

Couldn't believe it. He sounded Trapattoni out after training, and while the coach denied any knowledge of Michel Platini's arrival, Brady knew he knew. He then talked to Bettega and reckoned he knew as well, before the chairman Boniperti made it official.

"I realised then it was the owner Gianni Agnelli's call, and what Agnelli wants, Agnelli gets. To be fair, he wasn't a bad judge, but it was a crushing blow at the time, and I did feel somewhat betrayed after playing so well. I realise I was replaced by someone who went on to become arguably the best player in the world, but I'd played against Platini in the 1978 and the '82 World Cup qualifying campaigns and he'd come out on top largely because of refereeing decisions. So, at the time I didn't feel inferior to him."

He could have pouted, but instead he managed to turn a bad situation around. There were three games remaining in the league and Brady played superbly before scoring a penalty in the last match against Catanzaro which gave Juventus the title by a point.

"Since then I have this reputation among people who follow football closely in Italy as the ultimate pro. I didn't deserve it, but I got it."

Now he and his wife Sarah had a decision to make. To return to England or to stay?

As a couple they had settled well in Italy, and as a player, he had proved himself. In the end, Sampdoria with its billionaire owner, Paolo Mantovani, and his ambitions for the Genoese club, turned his head.

[klein4]

Later in that summer of 1982, after a shambolic Ireland tour which included defeats to Brazil and the mighty Trinidad and Tobago, Brady sat in Gibney's pub in Malahide and watched Italy, with his former Juventus teammates, defeat West Germany in the World Cup final.

"It was bittersweet. I was really delighted for the lads at Juventus, but that was it, I was moving on, I wouldn't be playing with them any more. I stayed in Italy because I was in probably the most competitive league in the world at the time, and I reckon I was earning 10 times what I'd been earning at Arsenal. Italy set me up financially for life. I've no problem saying I didn't go there just for the challenge."

Two years in Genoa were followed by another two at Inter Milan alongside KarlHeinz Rummenigge, Alessandro Altobelli, Giuseppe Bergomi, Fulvio Collovati and Walter Zenga. There was more pressure, more expectation than at Sampdoria, but there was always the rush of performing in the San Siro. "Our coach, Ilario Castagner, wasn't strong enough, he wasn't up to it, and we blew the title in my first year. Trapattoni came to Inter later and if he'd been there that season, we would have walked it."

After Inter, he moved to Ascoli and then finally to West Ham. A day after shaking hands with the then West Ham manager, John Lyall, Celtic made him an offer, but he stuck to his deal with Lyall. Glasgow would come calling again.

In 1991 after being told he had the manager's job at Celtic, he was watching the early evening news on the BBC with Sarah, and one of the items was about his appointment.

"It was the bloody news, not the sports news, and Sarah looked at me as if to say, 'Sure you know what you're doing here?'" There was an infamous 5-1 defeat by Neuchatel Xamax in the Uefa Cup, but by the end of the first season, which had included a long unbeaten run, he felt he had justified his position. Off the pitch, Celtic were in debt, the board was riven by warring factions, and matters quickly came to a head with the chief executive, Terry Cassidy, who during a meeting once handed Brady a slip of paper with a team written on it.

"As far as I was concerned, this guy knew nothing about football, so I got up and walked out. For a while it was him or me, but the board managed to gloss over it. Still, there was a distinct atmosphere between Cassidy and myself, and between me and some of the directors as well, so I knew I had to get it really right on the pitch, or else I was going to be in trouble."

His signings included Tony Cascarino from Aston Villa, Stuart Slater from West Ham and Andy Payton from Middlesbrough, but all three failed to break Rangers' dominance.

"No, I didn't buy well, and you live and die by your purchases as well as your results in the eyes of the fans. I genuinely believed I had the knowledge, so it was a rude awakening. I was too inexperienced to handle it, but Celtic turned out to be a manager's graveyard for several who followed me.

"Glasgow is a demanding, aggressive city, and although I didn't achieve what I'd hoped to, I've no regrets about that particular period of my career.

To have managed a winning team in an Old Firm derby is something no one ever forgets."

He resigned from Celtic, threw himself into Brighton for a couple of years, but it too was a club in turmoil, then in early 1996 after Charlton had gone, the FAI's Louis Kilcoyne rang to sound him out about the Ireland job. "Louis was wondering why I hadn't applied and I was telling him that I didn't think I had a chance. He said the FAI wanted to consider me, so I agreed to go for an interview as long as the whole thing was discreet and confidential."

Brady drove into the car park of a Heathrow hotel just before the appointed time to be greeted by a media scrum, and as he walked into the foyer, Joe Kinnear was walking out.

"It was laughable, a complete shambles, a beauty contest for the guys in the blazers, but I decided I'd go in and see what was going on. It later emerged that Kevin Moran was lined up for the job, but a couple of people jumped ship at the last moment and went with Mick McCarthy. That's the FAI for you."

He probably would do the Ireland job if he was offered it, but it's definitely not an ambition. Right now, he's more concerned with producing a few young players who, like Ashley Cole, are talented enough to emerge from Arsenal's youth programme into the glare of the world game.

If you sat with him over a couple of glasses of red wine tomorrow evening, he'd tell that of all the players he played with, Alan Ball, Stapleton and O'Leary stood out at Arsenal, Scirea and Rummenigge were superb in Italy, while Giles and Paul McGrath were also special. Of the coaches? "Don Howe, Giles and Trapattoni, that's it. They'd no favourites, no allegiances, they relied on knowledge and motivation, and their passion for the game got through to players."

He's thinking ahead to how Cerium will run at the Cheltenham festival, and to the Ryder Cup at the K Club.

That's what made him different from so many other good players . . . always thinking about what he was doing.

Some relied on instinct alone, with Brady there had to be a reason.

After Charlton had called him ashore, West Germany's manager that day, Franz Beckenbauer, offered his verdict:

"I've always admired Liam, he's my type of player. But perhaps Jackie thinks differently."

Charlton obviously did think differently, but you still get the feeling that Beckenbauer was right.

[klein4]

sorry .tribune web site is a bit all over the shop!

[SaucyJack]

good work Klein.

[Paddy Garcia]

Good stuff,

Interesting to reflect how Brady always made the effort for Ireland even when he was with Juventus (read he had a clause in his contract to be released for Irish games). And he would obviously have stayed longer if he was wanted. A role model for some others....

Holland, Cunningham, Keane, Carr, Keily, Carsley, Gary Kelly ... take note!

[NeilMcD]

Yeah well done Klein. Good article and I did think his treatment by Charlton was a bit over the top at the time, a real pity that he did not get to play in Euro 88 as know Irish player deserved to play in a Major Competition more than him.

[Stuttgart88]

Holland, Cunningham, Keane, Carr, Keily, Carsley, Gary Kelly ... take note!
Agree with the general sentiment, but a bit harsh on Cunningham. On Monday night's evidence he's not got long left.

[Paddy Garcia]

Agree with the general sentiment, but a bit harsh on Cunningham. On Monday night's evidence he's not got long left.


Yeah, I agree - think was genuine in feeling others could now do a better job.

[NY Hoop]

Brady is a class act. Not afraid to call a spade a spade. Awful shame he didnt get to play in the World Cup in 1990. Would have been a magnificent way to end his international career in a country where he was very well respected.

To think that playing in a World Cup means little to others:rolleyes:

BTW his last game for his country was his testimonial against Finland in May 1990. Super programme too.

KOH

[NeilMcD]

Class player. His Punditry is very biased towards Arsenal though and very anti Man Utd. In relation to his views on Keane he is as bad as Dunphy on this issue on my view. Both of them are far too extreme in their views on Keane. Giles however usually is fair there.


Howerver Brady was a great player and awful pity he did not get to play in a major compeitition. Seems to be doing a very good job at Arsenal too.

[NY Hoop]

Class player. His Punditry is very biased towards Arsenal though and very anti Man Utd. In relation to his views on Keane he is as bad as Dunphy on this issue on my view. Both of them are far too extreme in their views on Keane. Giles however usually is fair there.

Howerver Brady was a great player and awful pity he did not get to play in a major compeitition. Seems to be doing a very good job at Arsenal too.

Considering he was a legendary player there and is currently employed by them it is understandable that he is biased. I wouldnt say very though.

No way is he as bad as dummy in relation to traitor. Dummy is absolutely obsessed with traitor, which makes last saturdays front page of the mirror all the more funny:D

Pat Kenny said recently that if traitor mugged an old lady on the street dummy would say that was because he had his reasons.

Again you can understand Brady's frustration though. He came so close to playing in a World Cup only to be robbed by shocking referring decisions in 82 and by age and manager in 90 while there's a player who couldnt be arsed playing in a World Cup for his country cos his pillow wasnt the right colour.

KOH

[Tipp Townie]

Holland, Cunningham, Keane, Carr, Keily, Carsley, Gary Kelly ... take note!


Erm, have i missed something? Has Matt Holland retired from internationals? Sorry, i'm well off the pace at the moment...

[Stuttgart88]

Announced his retirement last week.

[NeilMcD]

Considering he was a legendary player there and is currently employed by them it is understandable that he is biased. I wouldnt say very though.

No way is he as bad as dummy in relation to traitor. Dummy is absolutely obsessed with traitor, which makes last saturdays front page of the mirror all the more funny:D

Pat Kenny said recently that if traitor mugged an old lady on the street dummy would say that was because he had his reasons.

KOH

Do you not think the fact you call Roy Keane traitor, means that maybe you are a little biased in relation to this.

Also Brady regularly slags the Man Utd defence and has every right to but very rarely does the same for Arsenal and will only do it if it is dragged out of him.

I can't believe you are using Pat kenny as part of your argument. Pat the plank Kenny does not have a clue about football and himself and Dunphy have a long personal feud between the 2 of them so his comments should not really be taken on board.

I agree Dunphy is over the top in his love for Keane but in my view Brady is over the top in his dislike of Keane. However you obviously are of the same view as Brady so its understandable that you will not see my point of view.

[NY Hoop]

Do you not think the fact you call Roy Keane traitor, means that maybe you are a little biased in relation to this.

Also Brady regularly slags the Man Utd defence and has every right to but very rarely does the same for Arsenal and will only do it if it is dragged out of him.

I can't believe you are using Pat kenny as part of your argument. Pat the plank Kenny does not have a clue about football and himself and Dunphy have a long personal feud between the 2 of them so his comments should not really be taken on board.

I agree Dunphy is over the top in his love for Keane but in my view Brady is over the top in his dislike of Keane. However you obviously are of the same view as Brady so its understandable that you will not see my point of view.

Hold on. I do see your point of view. But as I've pointed Brady is justified in his dislike for traitor.

I'll have to take your word on the whole man utd defense thing. I dont watch english football on a regular basis tbh.

Pat the plank does know nothing about football but he has a point regarding dummy and his blind spot for traitor.

You cant really compare dummy's obsession to traitor to Liam's dislike of him. To quote dummy "Roy Keane is right about everything". Says it all really:rolleyes:

KOH

[nedder]

Fantastic article on Brady. We haven't had a player of his vision and playmaking ability since.

I would agree with Hoop in that Brady's dislike for Keane might stem from the fact he was so desperate to play in a major championship, while it didn't seem to mean a lot to R Keane.

I think he can be a bit over the top on Keane sometimes but when you are arguing with Dunphy, you probably need to be!!

[NeilMcD]

I am going to be pedantic here but that is not the full quote.

What Dunphy said was that Roy keane is right about everything and then said in this instance. Now He said the first bit very loudly and the 2nd bit was quieter.

I agree Dunphy does have his tongue somewhere close to a posterior in Glasgow. However the story last week in the Mirror was a non story.

In addition I do think that Brady is over the top in relation to Keane and during the heated argument with Dunphy he got many facts wrong esp the one regarding Keanes clause at Nottingham Forest. I am not apoligist for Keane or Dunphy but I do try to see things from both sides.

I do think your reference to Keane as traitor kind of rules you out of that equation.

[NY Hoop]

I am going to be pedantic here but that is not the full quote.

What Dunphy said was that Roy keane is right about everything and then said in this instance. Now He said the first bit very loudly and the 2nd bit was quieter.

I agree Dunphy does have his tongue somewhere close to a posterior in Glasgow. However the story last week in the Mirror was a non story.

In addition I do think that Brady is over the top in relation to Keane and during the heated argument with Dunphy he got many facts wrong esp the one regarding Keanes clause at Nottingham Forest. I am not apoligist for Keane or Dunphy but I do try to see things from both sides.

I do think your reference to Keane as traitor kind of rules you out of that equation.

Yes you are pedantic there but you see where I'm going regarding dummy. Putting it simply no matter what traitor does dummy will excuse it.

Again I'll have to take your word re Liam's debate with dummy.

Your last line could not be more wrong. I always see both sides of any argument. I'm not as blinkered as dummy.

As an aside dummy used to write in the tribune in the 80s constantly slagging off Brady. Until the day Brady decked him in the team hotel. Ever since then the look of reverence on dummy's face when Brady is talking is a sight to behold:D

KOH

[NeilMcD]

Yes you are pedantic there but you see where I'm going regarding dummy. Putting it simply no matter what traitor does dummy will excuse it.

Again I'll have to take your word re Liam's debate with dummy.

Your last line could not be more wrong. I always see both sides of any argument. I'm not as blinkered as dummy.

As an aside dummy used to write in the tribune in the 80s constantly slagging off Brady. Until the day Brady decked him in the team hotel. Ever since then the look of reverence on dummy's face when Brady is talking is a sight to behold:D

KOH



I agree with you regarding Dunphy he would defend anything that Keane does, I am sure Keane woud not defend himself as much as Dunphy does. however its clear you have not seen Brady on either the Premiership or Champions League programe where he drops down to Dunphys level in my view when the issue of Roy Keane comes up. Giles is the only one that stays sane on this issue in that studio.

[OwlsFan]

Last time I heard Brady talking about Keane, he was proposing him as the next Irish Manager :eek:

No one and I mean no one stoops as low as Dunphy.

Yes a great shame that Brady in his prime didn't play in a major championship but there are a whole host of great Irish soccer players in a similar boat. He was injured for Euro 88 and was off the pace by the time Italia 90 came round (as well as being out of favour with Jack).

[NeilMcD]

The context of Brady recommending Keane for the Ireland job was as such.

He felt that If keane thought he was god almighty and he was the only one who was professional and that the FAI were full of yes men well then he should go and take the job and put his money where his mouth was. Bradys recommendation of Keane as Ireland manager was done out of a vendetta against keane and for no other reason as far as I could see. THat is not to say that he is not right in his dislike of keane.

[klein4]

who cares what any of these millionaires think of each other.its not hello magazine!
brady and keane were great players. end of story.
dunphy and Kenny are broadcasting legends. or the inspirations for them anyhows...:D

[NeilMcD]

who cares what any of these millionaires think of each other.!
D


To answer your question Owls Fan, Neil Mc D and NY Hoops so far.

[geysir]

I read the BradyTribune article whilst stuck in traffic south of Gorey. Could have read the NYTimes as well with time to spare. There was also a tribute piece from Trappatoni (to Trappatoni). AFAIR something to the effect of 'we won a penalty, if we scored we get the title, all eyes turned to me (el duce) I indicated that Liam was to take it, there were gasps all around italy, etc.
What happened was, ref awards penalty, Liam grabs the ball, all eyes glued on Liam.
It was interesting to read Liam's honest self-assessment of his time as manager of Celtic.

[klein4]

yeah that was bit i was looking for but didnt seem to be on tribune website.
its really what he is known in italy for.

[geysir]

After Trappatoni applauded himself he was generous in his praise of Brady. This is the standard of professionalism and national duty that Brady is coming from when he is trenchant on Keane. If he gets carried away I'll forgive him.

[NeilMcD]

Is that not double standard there, in that people are willing to forgive Brady for getting carried away but are not so forgiving of Dunphy for getting carried away. My view is that they are both as bad as each other on this issue in that they allow their emotions cloud their judgement. Giles is the only one of the panel with a reasonable view when the issue of Roy Keane comes up.

[NY Hoop]

Is that not double standard there, in that people are willing to forgive Brady for getting carried away but are not so forgiving of Dunphy for getting carried away. My view is that they are both as bad as each other on this issue in that they allow their emotions cloud their judgement. Giles is the only one of the panel with a reasonable view when the issue of Roy Keane comes up.

But as has been pointed repeatedly he doesnt get as carried away as dummy does. Brady recognised that traitor is a super player but let down his country. Dummy thinks the sun shines out of traitors arse and can do NO wrong. Crucial difference.

KOH

[NeilMcD]

Thats not true, Dunphy has slagged keane for going to Celtic and he also gave out about his performances a few times for Utd on the Premieship. I still think he is over the top in his praise for Keane but I would not say its correct to say he can do no wrong.

[OwlsFan]

Is that not double standard there, in that people are willing to forgive Brady for getting carried away but are not so forgiving of Dunphy for getting carried away. My view is that they are both as bad as each other on this issue in that they allow their emotions cloud their judgement. Giles is the only one of the panel with a reasonable view when the issue of Roy Keane comes up.

You cannot justifiably say one is as bad as the other. Brady has a view but it doesn't dominate his life nor does he launch scathing and personal attacks on anyone that has a divergent view.

I can do no more than cut and paste this article:
--------------------
http://www.opinioneight.com/

Empty vessels …..

Filed under: General— site admin @ 11:31 pm
Some times the smallest of minds appear to have the biggest, loudest and foulest of mouths.

A couple of nights ago I tuned in to watch the Manchester United Champions League football match against Villareal, and during the pre match period I expected to get the usually incisive analysis by two of our greatest footballers Johnny Giles and Liam Brady, mixed with some mildly amusing and abrasive comments by one of the dimmer of our sporting stars, Eamonn Dunphy.

I was set up for a good night of football and football punditry. Of course the minute the RTE anchor, Bill O’Herlihy raised the subject of Roy Keane’s departure I suspected that there would be some sparks flying and we really got a doozy performance. Brady and Giles did their best to stick to a balanced assessment of Keane’s on-pitch brilliance against his abominable behaviour off the pitch. But with each passing syllable Dunphy’s frustration built to a fever pitch of spitting rage aimed at the rest of the panel as well as anyone mentioned in the conversation. It was compulsive viewing, despite it’s pathetic nature.

Dunphy’s personality and presence stood out like a boil on a baby’s bottom in the presence of such greats as Giles and Brady, and his spitting attack on another of our great sportsmen, Niall Quinn, was just another of the lowlights that will be remembered when this dim star in the Irish firmament is long gone. Quinn’s achievements in professional and international football stand in stark contrast with Dunphy’s brief and over rated flash in the pan achievements at the fringes of the big game and Quinn’s skill, personal character and generosity of spirit and pocket stand out starkly in contrast with Dunphy’s almost complete lack in all three capacities.

The funniest moment came when Dunphy lashed out at a British reporter Rod Liddle who had dared to suggest that Dunphy’s bosom buddy Keane should have been banned from football for life by now. He referred to Liddle as a second rate gutter journalist which of course is riotously funny considering Dunphy’s own standing in the hierarchy of journalists. Of course this kind of behaviour came as no surprise considering Dunphy’s close personal and financial relationship with Keane over the years. Dunphy struts the screen at every opportunity like Keane’s poodle with a rottweiler snarl at anyone daring to make even the smallest of criticism of his ‘friend’.

While Quinn, Giles and Brady rose to the highest levels of the professional game while maintaining the highest levels of professionalism, personal character and loyalty, Dunphy’s bosom buddy Keane has been the very antithesis of these great sportsmen. Quinn’s loyalty stands in desolate contrast to Keane’s betrayal of his team mates, his country and it’s sports fans at the hour of their greatest needs. Quinn Giles and Brady stood tall and strong throughout barren times for Ireland’s football team, while Keane whinged and whined and bitched and moaned when he did not fly first class or practice grounds didn’t match his own self serving ego.
During the course of the match Dunphy vacated the program. I only wish his biographee would do the same and never return to football in any of it’s guises.

If anything informative came out of this television ‘performance’ it certainly reminded us of the chasm between class and trash, between real character and achievement and a cringing poseur.
--------------------------------------

[NeilMcD]

During the course of the match Dunphy vacated the program. I only wish his biographee would do the same and never return to football in any of it’s guises.


--------------------------------------[/QUOTE]


He vacated to go and watch the Chelsea game I think. Also that is just an opinion piece that proves nothing.

The facts are that NYHoops calls Roy Keane Traitor. Owls fan you have as your signatrure a little dig at Roy Keane. So your credentials on this are to be biased against Roy Keane. So of couse you are going to see Dunphy as a lunatic and Brady as a sane voice.

However I am neither pro or anti Keane in this debate and that is why I agree with John Giles in relation to these issues and think that both Brady and Dunphy lose the plost when it comes to Roy Keane.

[klein4]

what is this **** article from???
who the **** wrote it?
fact is dunphy is one of the biggest media personalities in the country
a very successful journalist/broadcaster/pundit.
who the hell is the guy who wrote this?
and how did keane betray his country? how is he a traitor?
how ****in stupid do you have to be to think that.
he didnt play in a football match. who cares.
if it wasnt for the fact that he practically had to carry a bunch a journeymen there singlehandedly noone would have cared.
if anyone is goin to call him a traitor they can get off their hole and go practice football and go play for ireland. oh no? cant be bothered??
****in traitors! :rolleyes:


(now thats a rant!!!!)

[Karlos]

if it wasnt for the fact that he practically had to carry a bunch a journeymen there singlehandedly noone would have cared.


I agree with almost everything you said in your rant but this is the biggest load of bull that's continually sprouted by Dunphy. He had a good campiagn in 2002, no question about that but the team got us there, all of them. If I was going to single anyone out it would have been Given for his carrying of us all the way to the finals in the two games against Iran.

[NY Hoop]

Owlsfan that is the best piece on the whole issue I've ever read. Articulate, accurate and concise. It maybe that persons opinion but it is not wrong. Superbly written piece.

Storming out of a studio, agreeing with someone who calls his teammates muppets, being arrested for drink driving but above all a parody of himself at this stage. Yeah I think dummy being called a lunatic is fair enough.

Klein4 that is a rant! Utter drivel but a rant nonetheless!

KOH

[NeilMcD]

I agree with almost everything you said in your rant but this is the biggest load of bull that's continually sprouted by Dunphy. He had a good campiagn in 2002, no question about that but the team got us there, all of them. If I was going to single anyone out it would have been Given for his carrying of us all the way to the finals in the two games against Iran.


A mate of mine is a Scottish fan and he was of the view that Given was our best and most important player during that campaign and that has become more and more so from the last campaign also. However I would be of the view that both Keane and Given were our world class performers during the road to Japan and Korea. BOth of them were very very important.

[klein4]

I dont get the saipan ****e. who still ****in cares.
as for the piece above it was a pile a cliche driven ****e that a leaving cert english student would be embarressed by. Larrissa Nolan is the only journalist I would listen to on the whole Saipan affair.

[NY Hoop]

I dont get the saipan ****e. who still ****in cares.
as for the piece above it was a pile a cliche driven ****e that a leaving cert english student would be embarressed by. Larrissa Nolan is the only journalist I would listen to on the whole Saipan affair.

Truth hurts pal.

KOH

[klein4]

Are you having a laugh?
its a woeful cliche ridden piece. it made me sick as a parrott reading it.
was it written by owlsfan himself?
its almost as good as his "riposte" to Tom Humphries.
Just cause you happen to subscribe to some of the sentiments expressed within doesnt make it any better as a piece of "journalism".
it doesnt bother me what you think of dunphy/keane/quinn/brady et al.
But I think its a bit pathetic throwing terms like traitor around. if you feel "betrayed" by some footballer not wanting to play in a world cup then you are a sad little man. people have a right to do what the hell they want to do regardless whether the likes of yourself will be moved to ring Joe Duffy to complain about it. get a life.

[NY Hoop]

Get a life coming from you?:D

Cop on pal this is an internet forum. If you dont agree with someone you dont have to resort to abuse like your pals dummy and traitor............

Enjoy your weekend listening to the radio:D

KOH

[OwlsFan]

Are you having a laugh?
its a woeful cliche ridden piece. it made me sick as a parrott reading it.
was it written by owlsfan himself?
its almost as good as his "riposte" to Tom Humphries.
Just cause you happen to subscribe to some of the sentiments expressed within doesnt make it any better as a piece of "journalism".
it doesnt bother me what you think of dunphy/keane/quinn/brady et al.
But I think its a bit pathetic throwing terms like traitor around. if you feel "betrayed" by some footballer not wanting to play in a world cup then you are a sad little man. people have a right to do what the hell they want to do regardless whether the likes of yourself will be moved to ring Joe Duffy to complain about it. get a life.

Thanks for the compliment but it wasn't written by me. Delighted you thought it was almost as good as my reply to Tom Humphries. I am flattered :o .

I used that article because it reflected my views on NeilMc's comparison of Brady = Dunphy. It wasn't meant to drag the Keane Saga (Traitor/Hero etc)into it because that has been talked about ad nauseum. However, I disagree that it is a "cliche ridden piece". I appreciate it mightn't reach the erudite standards you have shown in your writings, but it is well put together even if the views propounded would clearly not be shared by some people.

[klein4]

I appreciate it mightn't reach the erudite standards you have shown in your writings, .
:D
very funny. wasnt tryin to be personal(well maybe a little...) just didnt think it was a good article. wasnt balanced and was a bit hackneyed. cant remember your humphries one all I remember is I didnt agree with it. so maybe it was a masterpiece. ;)
NY Hoop I wasnt resorting to abuse. I just said someone who still feels bitter about the whole saipan thing 4 years on is a bit sad and needs to get a life. And I would include brady and dunphy in that. Or "baldy" and "dummy" if it makes it any easier for ya.
back on thread....why has there never been a documentary on brady on Irish telly? its not as if we have a load of players who went to Italy....

[OwlsFan]

back on thread....why has there never been a documentary on brady on Irish telly? its not as if we have a load of players who went to Italy....

There was a documentary sort of. It was about the 4 lads who went to Arsenal at the same time: Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton and Murphy but it concentrated more on Murphy as the one who hadn't "made it".

[klein4]

yeah and there was a couple a clips of brady at juve that left you wanting to know a bit more about that period in his career.

[czarner]

Has anyone else gone to the blog that "opinion piece" was from and read the author's latest ignonorant, adolescent rant? I know I shouldn't, but I've an awful habit of following links to sites I know are going to annoy me - this one's a real shocker though. I'm almost tempted to waste my time posting a nasty comment (or I would be if I thought anyone read it).

"Some times the smallest of minds appear to have the biggest, loudest and foulest of mouths". Indeed.

[Den Perry]

Fantastic article on Brady. We haven't had a player of his vision and playmaking ability since.

I would agree with Hoop in that Brady's dislike for Keane might stem from the fact he was so desperate to play in a major championship, while it didn't seem to mean a lot to R Keane.

I think he can be a bit over the top on Keane sometimes but when you are arguing with Dunphy, you probably need to be!!


True great article. And Brady was harshly treated...but does anybody agree with me in that John Sheridan must have been one of the unluckiest Irish players of all time. He was not far behind Liam in terms of class but won very few caps and was one of the most gifted players we ever had

[nedder]

True great article. And Brady was harshly treated...but does anybody agree with me in that John Sheridan must have been one of the unluckiest Irish players of all time. He was not far behind Liam in terms of class but won very few caps and was one of the most gifted players we ever had


Sheridan was an excellent passer of the ball. Would be a shoe in for centre midfield if he was around now. He had a good bit of competition in his day for a green shirt. He was more gifted than Townsend, but in fairness to townsend he got through an awful lot of work on the pitch.
I'm sure he'd be delighted Den, to be mentioned along with Brady, but Brady was different class. He could beat a player at ease and open up defences at ease. had a bit more trickery than Sheridan.

P.S welcome back Den!

[Fergie's Son]

I'm a big fan of Sheridan and I've listed him in my Ireland XI several times on this board. He was not, however, in Brady's class.

That said, we could certainly use him now.