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FarBeag
13/02/2006, 9:31 PM
Anyone watch Dispatches on Channel Four this evening? It showed undercover investigations into the way in which Ryanair operates. Two Dispatches reporters spent five months secretly filming the airline's training programme and onboard flights as members of the cabin crew. What they found may make you think twice about flying Ryanair again. The undercover footage reveals what takes place behind the scenes: security lapses i.e., not checking passports properly, unsafe emergency doors, attitude of the pilots and air Stuarts in general, dirty aircrafts where someone got sick on the aircraft and they pored aftershave over it instead of cleaning it, pilots complaining about the hours they have to fly and exhausted cabin crew. The cynical staff attitudes towards passengers and their welfare are also unmasked. It’s quite scary and disgusting what happens on the inside and it gives me even less faith in flying with Ryanair than I already had.:mad:

Thunderblaster
14/02/2006, 12:56 AM
Hardly shocking to me. Ryanair has been a lousy airline and I have not flown with them for more than four years out of protest. I rather travel to Belfast and fly with Easyjet. I felt rather vindicated watching that programme. Did you watch the programme about the three children in India with progeria afterwards?

hamish
14/02/2006, 2:31 AM
It's always the same. How many Discovery Channel programmes have we seen of air crashes and, in nearly every case, crashes are the result of cut-backs in safety checks etc.

I don't care how cheap Ryanair are - given their record I wouldn't fly with them for free. I hope Aer Lingus doesn't start aping them either with regard to safety.

O'Leary is a cowboy and, in Ireland, we know enough about about cowboys (in so many areas - business, sport, politics etc) to know they never can be trusted.

Macy
14/02/2006, 8:26 AM
Open book exams, safety warnings ignored, safety checks not completed (proves that 25 minute turn around isn't doable), deliberate breaches of security, officers scared of management etc etc.

And people on here thought they'd be the best option for running a new terminal? Low cost = low standards

Macy
14/02/2006, 8:46 AM
And people wanted them to run a terminal in Dublin!?!?!

I've always tried to avoid Ryanair, unless price differential has made them impossible to ignore. However, the last 10 trips I've booked, Aer Lingus has been cheaper or in and around the same price anyway. Better service, no scrum for seats, higher baggage allowance, more check in staff etc etc.

fosterdollar
14/02/2006, 9:29 AM
Ryanair representative seemed to put up a decent defence argument on The Last Word last night. There appears to be little backing up done by Dispatches on this. Wouldn't be too quick to get on Ryanair's back about it just yet.

ColinR
14/02/2006, 9:39 AM
to be honest i thought it was a terribly unprofessional documentary. it set out with an agenda, and stuck with it and never gave an oppurtunity for balance.

at one stage, an air hostess claimed that sometimes she had to get up at 4, and was not back home til half five in the evening (for 4 days a week). she was so knackered, she could do nothing at all. ffs thats about normal hours for anybody that commutes to work (albeit two hours earlier than i would be used to, but home two hours earlier too!).

evertything seemed twisted aswell - the pilots hours were stuck too stricktly, but they tried to imply that they were being abused as well. :rolleyes:

overall, just a bad documentary, that didn't prove anything to me

Macy
14/02/2006, 9:53 AM
You're honestly happy with what you saw last night? There was nothing that would concern you flying with them? I find it bizarre that people would write off the programme so easily and let Ryanair off the hook just like that.

Clifford
14/02/2006, 9:58 AM
Standards in Cunni Lingus our national carrier are way lower down the chain than what was shown last night Macy, so yes indeed Ryainair should have been given the chance with a terminal.

The modern passenger is too discerning and hard working generally to worry about the poor documentary that was on last night. What a waste of money that was. NO quotes from anyone in authority, just a few fed up pilots and tired trolly dolly's. People are just not interested when they can get to Europe for 30 euro's. End of.

From the Irish examiner:

Television exposé 'vindicates' Ryanair

By Paul Kelly
RYANAIR bosses last night said the airline's safety and security policies were vindicated by an undercover exposé on British television.

Channel 4's Dispatches programme sought to throw up questions over cabin crew training, security checks, tired air stewards and cleanliness.

But last night's broadcast, called Ryanair: Caught Napping, failed to provide anything but the mildest claims against the low-fares airline.

Significantly, the programme carried no comment from Britain or Ireland's aviation authorities, who Ryanair said had found no cause for concern following the allegations.

The most serious allegation centred on what Dispatches said was the lack of final passport and boarding card checks upon leaving the boarding gate.

But the programme-makers failed to mention full and rigorous checks are carried out beforehand at check-in, security and passport control.

They also showed a member of the cabin crew asleep on one flight while one of the undercover reporters, Charlotte Smith, complained of being tired.

After seeing footage of sleeping air stewards, aviation medical consultant Dr Ian Perry said: "They are fatigued enough to be asleep and they are not going to be alert and not able to handle crises, an accident or an emergency."

One pilot said how hard pilots worked but admitted the airline kept within the legal limit for his flying time of 900 hours a year.

Members of staff were caught on camera moaning about their employer but none raised any questions about security or safety.

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary said: "Ryanair operates to the highest safety standards in Europe. Dispatches' five-month undercover documentary could not produce evidence of any breaches of safety or security policies."

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 10:08 AM
Simply won't fly Ryanair. If Ryanair is the only airline flying there - not that they understand the concept of "there" anyway - I won't go, or I'll find another way. I'm convinced at this stage that if I do, I'll be on the flight that is going to drop out of the sky.

adam

ColinR
14/02/2006, 10:08 AM
You're honestly happy with what you saw last night? There was nothing that would concern you flying with them? I find it bizarre that people would write off the programme so easily and let Ryanair off the hook just like that.

to be honest, given the agenda that the documentary clearly set out with, i doubted whether the staff were genuinly sleeping, not checking that oxygen masks were there etc. or whether the whole crew were in on this, and that they were saying things for the sake of the documentary.

every ryanair flight i've been on (quite a lot, as i come home every few weeks), the staff are constantly serving, they do not have time to fall asleep etc., their level of service has been no different to that of aer lingus. i would have no problems with ryanair after seeing that last night.

Macy
14/02/2006, 10:13 AM
So why have the checks at boarding then - if they're unnecessary then why bother with them at all? Why were they introduced?

Vindicated me whole - I think people believing O'Leary's hype so readily is nearly more worrying than the continued evidence of ryanair's short cuts.

Macy
14/02/2006, 10:21 AM
every ryanair flight i've been on (quite a lot, as i come home every few weeks), the staff are constantly serving, they do not have time to fall asleep etc., their level of service has been no different to that of aer lingus. i would have no problems with ryanair after seeing that last night.
I suppose this is the difference - I've found on my many trips the level of service to be terrible, the lack of information when there are inevitable delays, the state of the planes to be poor in terms of cleanliness, the attitude of cabin staff all well below aer lingus. Ryanair has to come in at least €20 cheaper each way for me to consider using them. Possible the Edinburgh routes don't have the turnaround that Manchester routes do?

finlma
14/02/2006, 10:23 AM
Its just a bit of hype over nothing. I guarantee you Ryanair aren't the only airline that you could make a documentary like this about.

I say fair play to them for driving down the prices of flights and opening up new destinations to Irish people. I've flown with them for years and years without a single problem and will continue to do so. Keep up the good work Mr. O'Leary.

ColinR
14/02/2006, 10:39 AM
I suppose this is the difference - I've found on my many trips the level of service to be terrible, the lack of information when there are inevitable delays, the state of the planes to be poor in terms of cleanliness, the attitude of cabin staff all well below aer lingus. Ryanair has to come in at least €20 cheaper each way for me to consider using them. Possible the Edinburgh routes don't have the turnaround that Manchester routes do?

well to be honest the only times i've had any poor service from ryanair was on manchester routes!!

from edinburgh, i would chose aer-lingus all things being equal (plus possible a small premium, but not much) - but only because their planes are more comfortable, and less full!!

they have many faults, but they are no frills, and you do get what you pay for with them. Last night didn't expose anything too shocking for me.

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 10:41 AM
I guarantee you Ryanair aren't the only airline that you could make a documentary like this about.Absolutely. Ryanair have low standards, but other airlines have too, so we shouldn't criticise any of them.

finlma
14/02/2006, 11:13 AM
Ryanair has posted responses to the issues dealt with in the documentary:
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/inpage.php?partner=DISPATCHES

Also giving away 3 mil free flights.

Clifford
14/02/2006, 11:48 AM
It's all personal opinion innit fly with em if you want, don't if you don't. I know from my job that Cunni lingus are operating as poor if not poorer a service. I also know sometimes they are better priced on certain routes than Ryanair. One thing to note is that without O Leary's intervention to cut out the blah blah factor we would still be paying 200 euro to fly to London and 400 or more to get into Europe.

Credit where credit is due, it doesn't mean the guy has to be liked, cos he is an absolute a r s e believe me I've had dealings with him.

The one thing I would say to anyone forming an opinion, read his book. In it the only thing he says he wouldn't compromise on is safety. Their record speaks for itself in that respect.

I don't know any company who doesn't maximse the time they get out of their employees. It would be bad business not to.

Macy
14/02/2006, 12:10 PM
You'd hardly expect him to say he'll compromise everything including safety would you? You can only make so many cut backs until it compromises security and safety - the programme shows that it's already happening.

Clifford
14/02/2006, 12:44 PM
You'd hardly expect him to say he'll compromise everything including safety would you? You can only make so many cut backs until it compromises security and safety - the programme shows that it's already happening.


So why don't the Aviation authorities feel the same way? There is nothing, absolutely nothing that Ryanair do that everyother airline does 2 years later.

If you chose to accept the "findings" of two wannbe journo's over the legal and highly competent authority who govern this sector then so be it. The Sun culture is alive and kickin.

Macy
14/02/2006, 1:39 PM
Highly competent? Not so sure about that... However, the programme at least raise concerns about the operations of Ryanair. I'd be interested to know whether the IAA inspections are spot checks or on documentation and well telegraphed visits (no indication on their websites). As the incidents in the programme weren't followed up by the senior cabin crew then I'd hardly expect the IAA or the UK equivalent to be aware of them. imo you're just buying the Ryanair propaganda, when this is just the latest of a series of revelations. I suppose it's the Celtic Tiger attitude that puts cost savings and money making above everything including safety...

Clifford
14/02/2006, 2:50 PM
Highly competent? Not so sure about that... However, the programme at least raise concerns about the operations of Ryanair. I'd be interested to know whether the IAA inspections are spot checks or on documentation and well telegraphed visits (no indication on their websites). As the incidents in the programme weren't followed up by the senior cabin crew then I'd hardly expect the IAA or the UK equivalent to be aware of them. imo you're just buying the Ryanair propaganda, when this is just the latest of a series of revelations. I suppose it's the Celtic Tiger attitude that puts cost savings and money making above everything including safety...

There you go again, admitting you haven't a clue what way the Authorities operate, yet question their competency. Sun culture in the extreme that is.

I've certainly not bought into the Ryanair machine at all, but simply understand that there are two sides to a story and simply because a couple of girls film for 5 months and use selective clips from that I won't be shouting about it from the roof tops as I know all the other airlines are exactly the same.

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 2:51 PM
imo you're just buying the Ryanair propagandaI agree. I'd be interested to know whether the people pointing to the Dispatches correspondence have actually read it. I have, and O'Leary's responses are typical O'Leary/Ryanair: Answer the small stuff, gloss over or downright ignore the big stuff.

I'm often disappointed at the admiration of the Irish for O'Leary. It strikes me as very naive, no-one seems to want to dig under the surface; and when someone does, it's somehow wrong to out the cowboy, the chancer.

Haughey-cool, I think we should call it. They belong in the same category, after all.

adam

FarBeag
14/02/2006, 2:59 PM
I really don't care how cheap Ryanair is,they have no right to put passengers safety at risk with their tatty security,healty and safety issues,insensitive attitudes to customers complaints etc etc .Most people travel with the company because their prices are competitive, and the assumption that they are travelling safely.I think they are entitled to know if their safety is compromised in any way.I am glad that this programme was shown,at least it gives us some insight into what Ryanair really think of us as customers and also gives us the chance to see what we are actually paying for even if its considered a small amount.

strangeirish
14/02/2006, 3:02 PM
I have not seen the programme, but it all sounds like you get what you pay for. Sadly, when you offer major discounts, you have to cut corners somewhere.

monutdfc
14/02/2006, 3:06 PM
Haughey-cool, I think we should call it.
Excellent!!!

ColinR
14/02/2006, 3:25 PM
i think it says a lot about the poor quality of the documentary that it would appear that nobody on this thread has changed their opinion of ryanair based on viewing it.

Those against ryanair, have (obviously) remained against it, whilst those of us who travel with ryanair, appear to have seen nothing to warrant a change.

Clifford
14/02/2006, 3:34 PM
I agree. I'd be interested to know whether the people pointing to the Dispatches correspondence have actually read it. I have, and O'Leary's responses are typical O'Leary/Ryanair: Answer the small stuff, gloss over or downright ignore the big stuff.

I'm often disappointed at the admiration of the Irish for O'Leary. It strikes me as very naive, no-one seems to want to dig under the surface; and when someone does, it's somehow wrong to out the cowboy, the chancer.

Haughey-cool, I think we should call it. They belong in the same category, after all.

adam

The guy is an absolute a r s e and is thoroughly hated in all my local establishments. No doubts about that.

But I can't believe the hypocrisy in what you are saying. You don't believe a word out of the succesful "cowboy" airline owner, but do believe the underhand, sorry undercover novice journo agents that brought you the "Exclusive" (despite the fact we all knew what goes on there, it's no secret)

So you are saying not to believe or trust the Authorities who give out licenses because Channel 4 propoganda rules?

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 4:59 PM
Video camera, chancer; video camera, chancer. Hmmmm.

Clifford
14/02/2006, 5:17 PM
Video camera, chancer; video camera, chancer. Hmmmm.

I admire your blindness. :eek:

anto1208
14/02/2006, 5:24 PM
they spent 5 month investigating this and all they found was a bit of puke , 1 stewardess asleep ( maybe on a break??) and thats it , the security stuff is nonsence the passports have been checked 3 times allready by the time you get to the ryanair guys .

i could have done a more damming report on bus eirann in one trip not to mind 5 months .

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 5:26 PM
I admire your blindness. :eek:I admire your ability to read between the lines in my post; or write between them, to be more precise. Sorry, I only discuss matters seriously when people don't try to put words in my mouth. Refer to my post accurately if you'd like to try again.

adam

Clifford
14/02/2006, 5:59 PM
I'm often disappointed at the admiration of the Irish for O'Leary. It strikes me as very naive, no-one seems to want to dig under the surface; and when someone does, it's somehow wrong to out the cowboy, the chancer.

adam

Ryanair are licensed and have to meet rigoruous standards before they are allowed into the airport, let alone the air. Their surface is dug under every six weeks in order to ensure the standards are being maintained - but by the proper authorities. No one is saying that is wrong surely.

How am I getting on oh great one?

dfx-
14/02/2006, 6:16 PM
I have not seen the documentary, but much like the Danish cartoons, I need not. My experience with Ryanair is such that I do not trust them to get me from a to anywhere near b.

If anyone tries to claim that a 25 minute turnaround is in the best safety interests of either the plane or its cargo, I might as well be talking to the wall.:confused:

I am nowhere near going to excoriate Aer Lingus and other similar airlines as I have had my fair share of sullen attitudes from flight staff at Aer Lingus et al, but nothing goes close to the incompetency and unprofessional/inconsiderate/not bothered attitude that I get from a significant majority of Ryanair staff.

That is not considering how the passengers are *released* onto the plane in order to get seats, treating them almost like animals - something I have never experienced on any other flights.

It will come back to haunt O'Leary, but I suppose people, backing Ryanair and doubting the documentary on the basis that there's nothing special in it that other airlines don't do, will say that it's only one crash and up until then they had a great safety record according this authority or that authority etc. etc.:rolleyes:

Clifford
14/02/2006, 6:55 PM
Perhaps I should say at this point that I do not, nor have I ever, worked at Ryanair, so I shall leave the questions to be answered by those who have or do.

Suffice it to say, if there was something wrong at ANY airline, wouldn't the aviation authorities be better judges than "tabloid style" journalists?

My only real point on this thread was that I hate to see trial by television. Whether Ryanair and/or Michael O'Leary have a case to answer wasn't my point.

pineapple stu
14/02/2006, 8:12 PM
they spent 5 month investigating this and all they found was a bit of puke , 1 stewardess asleep ( maybe on a break??) and thats it , the security stuff is nonsence the passports have been checked 3 times allready by the time you get to the ryanair guys.
Whether or not you believe the findings to be true, it's nonsense that that's all the programme presented. Claims by staff that they would be fired if they went even slightly against company policy - including giving out free drinks during delays, taking longer than 25 minutes to turn around, etc - an accusation that part of the aeroplane was unsafe before the flight which the pilot was happy to ignore, evidence that lifejackets were never checked, evidence of staff writing reciprocal references on a regular basis, very poor toilet conditions, claims they took a court case against someone who'd won free flights for life from Ryanair and other items. Again, whether or not it's true is up for discussion, but they certainly presented more than what you've made out.


at one stage, an air hostess claimed that sometimes she had to get up at 4, and was not back home til half five in the evening (for 4 days a week). she was so knackered, she could do nothing at all. ffs thats about normal hours for anybody that commutes to work (albeit two hours earlier than i would be used to, but home two hours earlier too!).
In fairness, that's a 13½ hour day. Normal work days are 8½ hours, say. Do you really commute (or work that much overtime) five hours every day?! It certainly isn't normal, as you claim. I know my boss commutes from Monaghan to Dublin most days and it only takes 3 or 4 hours a day. I can't see how "normal" commute time involves a distance much further than Monaghan to Dublin.


Cunni lingus
Do you really think you're being smart and/or funny by continually using that term?:rolleyes:

The correspondence makes for interesting reading for a stage before it devolves into flame wars. Ryanair quite clearly ducked some of the issues though, such as the claim that the pilot would be fired had he given out free drink, or that their google search on cabin crew training schools was anything other than utterly irrelevant. They repeatedly note the claims are unsubstantiated even though Dispatches quite clearly noted that Dispatches were under no obligation to show the video evidence - i.e. the substantiation - before the programme was screened. And of course, they then note they've made a complaint against the show on the basis of unsubstantiated evidence. The letters would make me lean much more towards the programme's point of view than Ryanair's.


Members of staff were caught on camera moaning about their employer but none raised any questions about security or safety.
That's not true either - one staff member described the passport check system as "a bad system" (again, whether it's true or not isn't an issue here - they quite clearly raised a question about security), while the attitude towards life-jacket checks quite clearly raised another security issue (it's irrelevant whether or not the staff raised it formally - the important point is it was raised).


It set out with an agenda
Of course it did. All programmes do. Shock horror as programme doesn't waffle aimlessly for 60 minutes. In particular, this programme's agenda was to investigate the inner workings of Ryanair. Let's be honest - a programme saying "Ryanair are great" (to get the balance you're looking for) wouldn't really be a particularly interesting show. People are more interested - and rightly so - in areas where there are deficiencies of the sort the programme claimed. That's just the way. To suggest though that certain incidents were staged purely on your belief that the programme shouldn't have an agenda is nonsense though.

I should point out I've never had a problem when flying with Ryanair before. There are also some good points from the pro-Ryanair side, in particular, the lack of comment from the authorities (though do we know why they didn't comment? Is it because they had nothing to comment on or because they declined the chance to comment?) and the lack of any prior action in this area from authorities.

pete
14/02/2006, 9:11 PM
I haven't seen anything in the claims here that safety was ever put in jeapardy. Failure to check lifejackets every hour of the day (most flights would be very short) makes no difference to me. Interesting that people always use Aer Lingus as the ling to Ryanairs yang - i don't see much difference in the airlines.

Air stewards/hostesses whatever they called these days are glorified waitresses whose only safety role is to close the doors. As long as the pilots are awake suits me fine. All anti-ryanair people are just bitter about non unionisation.

pineapple stu
14/02/2006, 9:15 PM
All anti-ryanair people are just bitter about non unionisation.
A curious comment. Care to back it up with anything?

pete
14/02/2006, 9:21 PM
A curious comment. Care to back it up with anything?

I;m sure i could be stereotyped as Gordon Gekko type but as previously said no one is changing their opinions of Ryanair based on the ch4 documentary - Macy & Adam don't like Ryanair for refusing unions.

dahamsta
14/02/2006, 9:29 PM
(For the record, I haven't seen the documentary yet - just got it on VHS this minute - but I have read the accusations and responses on the Ryanair website.)


Ryanair are licensed and have to meet rigoruous standards before they are allowed into the airport, let alone the air. Their surface is dug under every six weeks in order to ensure the standards are being maintained - but by the proper authorities. No one is saying that is wrong surely.So you're saying that Dispatches made up the accusations, and faked /all/ of the video evidence? And you think these authorities are utterly infallible?


Macy & Adam don't like Ryanair for refusing unions.Now you're doing it pete. Did I say that? Sure, that's one reason; but believe me, I have plenty more. Mostly, I wouldn't trust them as far as I'd throw them. If you cut corners like Ryanair cuts corners, something's got to give. And I won't be able to rub everyone's nose in it when it happens, because people will die as a result.

I wonder how many people will back Ryanair then?

adam

pete
14/02/2006, 9:35 PM
Ryanair usually have much longer 25minutes turn around as their published flights times are almost always ahead of official landing times therefore gives more time top turnaround.

Dublin Airport was found by the EU to have inadequate security so now they added idiotic "shoe search" to security procedures. I would suggest Ryanair security measures in line with the airports they operate from. Passport checks are not required for a lot of inter-EU flights anyway.

Bald Student
14/02/2006, 9:55 PM
In fairness, that's a 13½ hour day.That's normal for shift work. 4 12-hour days a week.


If anyone tries to claim that a 25 minute turnaround is in the best safety interests of either the plane or its cargo, I might as well be talking to the wall.I don't see how an extra ten minutes of sitting on the tarmac improves safety.

pete
14/02/2006, 9:57 PM
I don't see how an extra ten minutes of sitting on the tarmac improves safety.

I agree. Its not as if an engineer does a quick service ;)

BTW was ex-Arelingus employee on the radio this morning & she backed that up by saying AL took longer because they had strong union & were having their lunch.

hamish
14/02/2006, 10:40 PM
I'm searching for information on the causes of air crashes but I came across this just now of incidents pertaining to Ireland.

http://www.aaiu.ie/aviation/aaiu/reportsevent/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1280

This is interesting (print is very small though)
http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2006/01/24/Navigation/201/204302/Only+human+Safety+and+Low-cost+carriers.html

Note this paragraph

In the last year Ryanair aircraft faced two anomalous approaches that came close to ending in tears. In one of them the Irish Air Accident Investigation Unit ventured that the pilot flying’s out-of-character conduct was the result of stresses outside – but related to – the workplace: in the other, an internal investigation by Ryanair concluded that a bereavement had affected the captain’s capacity. Meanwhile a Ryanair pilot’s demotion after refusing to fly extra sectors at the end of his rostered duty day is being examined in the courts. Safety experts always talk of the iceberg model for incidents and accidents: the accidents are the tip, the incidents are the bulk of the iceberg and the indicators that it is time to look for trends.

This is VERY INTERESTING

http://www.ryan-be-fair.org/news/halfmilhits.htm

"Ryanair are more concerned about sales then passenger saftey. I can't count on ten fingers how many emergency landings i have had due to trying to be early or on time and not working on the technical problem. I think its only a matter of time before some big accident occurs with the company due to there no frills"
(spelling in quote not the best but I copied and pasted it so not my fault)

Make your own minds up.

Dr.Nightdub
14/02/2006, 10:59 PM
OK, cards on table time here: I'm naturally inclined to be anti-Ryanair - mainly cos of their anti-union track record (anyone remember the baggage-handlers' dispute at Dublin airport), the ongoing nonsensical baggage allowances and the related "excess baggage" scam and their rabid hostility to anyone who criticises them (c.f. winner of the Millionth Passenger competition). However I still use them if I can't find a not-too-dear alternative. Call that hypocritical if you want, but how 'n' ever...

On first viewing, I thought the programme did raise some questions although from a series of Dispatches' standing, I would've expected much meatier allegations. There was smoke and there was fire but not enough to burn the playhouse down.

Then later last night, I read the whole correspondence between Ryanair and Dispatches on the Ryanair website and I gotta say, they did seem to be able to refute a lot of the allegations made by the programme, even without having had advance viewing of what was gonna be broadcast.

The two most critical points were in relation to cabin crews' hours worked and general safety. They quoted the actual hours worked by the two reporters which did to a large extent undermine the reporter's claim to be exhausted all the time. I'd LOVE to be working a mere 40-hour average week, but I don't feel anywhere near as exhausted as she said she was. On the safety front, either there's a lot of very tame inspectors around various European regulatory authorities or they do indeed have an OK safety record.

One thing appraent from the correspondence which I'm surprised Dispatches didn't pick up on was the fact that a proportion of cabin crew actually work for Crewlink, a sub-contractor. That in itself still has lots of alarm bells ringing in my head - for one thing, it leaves Ryanair with a way too convenient get-out clause. Same goes for the crew training, the clips shown on the programme showed that to be farcical.

However, my big gripe with the programme was that it didn't really go much beyond showing that Ryanair are cheap and nasty - literally. That's not exactly major breaking news. The impact all depends on whether people are either willing to or simply can't afford not to put up with it. I'm still (though not as trongly) in the "willing to" camp.

Some interesting points - overwhelmingly negative - made by Joe and Mary Public at this forum: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ryan.htm

Dodge
15/02/2006, 12:48 AM
I;m sure i could be stereotyped as Gordon Gekko type but as previously said no one is changing their opinions of Ryanair based on the ch4 documentary - Macy & Adam don't like Ryanair for refusing unions.
and therefore you only like them for blocking unions?!

Didn't see the documentary. Won't comment on it. Usually found Ryanair staff to be acceptable, ****ing hate the no fixed seat thing....

Clifford
15/02/2006, 1:13 AM
So you're saying that Dispatches made up the accusations, and faked /all/ of the video evidence? And you think these authorities are utterly infallible?

adam

I didn't say anything about the allegations being right or wrong, go on a Ryanair flight you see most of the things they showed last night, with a few extreme cases thrown in for good measure. It happens on all airlines, wake up.

Once again let me reiterate my point, if the regulations that are laid down by law in the many countries Ryanair fly into and out of are being met continually I'm going to have to believe/accept this as a guide to go on - it's good enough for the rest of the airlines innit? Of course the rules are not infallible, but I'm not going to huff and puff along with all the rest just cos two people with 5 months experience in the trade make a show, take the highlights and show them to the public in their own manner.

dahamsta
15/02/2006, 2:07 AM
"Two people with 5 months experience in the trade" didn't "make a show": two reporters contributed to a well-respected, well-established current affairs program on a well-respected, well-established TV channel. This isn't red-top TV, they didn't air it for shíts and giggles.

And I'm sure the point has already been made: Just because "it happens" doesn't make it ok. If they'd made it about Aer Lingus, would you have been less concerned or more concerned? EasyJet? BA? It's a valid, genuine concern no matter who it applies to; but it particularly applies to these low-budget airlines, that are cutting corners.

adam

Macy
15/02/2006, 9:01 AM
Macy & Adam don't like Ryanair for refusing unions.
Too right I don't for that reason, but that's only part of it. I have flown with them many times in the past, so I'm not that anti them that I wouldn't fly with them. However, the recent security and safety revelations, of which the TV programme was only one, make it unlikely I ever will again. I can't seperate the fear of pilots to give out drinks with the case of the pilot who didn't feel able to take time off because his child died. The two journalists were treated like new starters by the more established staff and were getting told how things are done in Ryanair - and that doesn't worry people?

People are saying about the aviation authority regulation, and then dismissing breaches of regulations like the passport checks, and the lifejacket checks as irrelevant. Make up your mind.

Can I just ask, when are the other 3 checks that people keep quoting? Once at check in, once going through security and once at the boarding gate. What is the other one that everyone is quoting? Incidentally, Ryanair now do online check in, so if you fly with them then it's down to one check (as it's okay not to check at boarding according to all the experts on here).

ColinR
15/02/2006, 9:47 AM
In fairness, that's a 13½ hour day. Normal work days are 8½ hours, say. Do you really commute (or work that much overtime) five hours every day?! It certainly isn't normal, as you claim.


students eh! :D sorry i dont know where you work, but lamentably i would have two-three 14 hour days a week, plus the remaining days of 10 1/2 (and i only have a forty min walk to work). plus working at weekends if required. she only had 4 days a week, imo she was acting to the camera.



Of course it did. All programmes do. Shock horror as programme doesn't waffle aimlessly for 60 minutes. In particular, this programme's agenda was to investigate the inner workings of Ryanair.

i don't know why you only half quoted me :rolleyes: i said they started out with an agenda (to slate ryanair - not as you say to 'investigate' their inner workings) and they carried on with that agenda irrecpective of their findings. they already knew what their slant was going to be before they started to investigate - that is my problem, it is poor quality tabloid journalism.