Lack of New Talent?

[pete]

This seasons close seasons seems to have very quiet in terms of new signings into the league with most transfer intra-league. After the ITV Digital collapse we had a flood of talent (released from clubs because of finances not ability) into the league but now those clubs have adjusted to their situation the eL is losing out on that player pool.

I can think of virtually no quality additions to the league this close season & surely this is a concern for all the league as we not producing many players up through the U21 ranks?

What does the future hold?

[Macy]

Don't forget, most of those signings would be players out of contract, so not effected by transfer windows. Probably still too early for players to be released from English club contracts imo.

[sullanefc]

Don't forget, most of those signings would be players out of contract, so not effected by transfer windows. Probably still too early for players to be released from English club contracts imo.

Fair point. I think this is why most clubs are being patient and waiting for the summer transfer window. Like Rico at CCFC.

[A face]

It is becoming all too clear alright, here is the complete list of transfer activity (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=32862) in the eircom League this year.

It actually doesn't help that football in this country is so fragmented, there are so many leagues all doing their own thing and not working with one another, it is hard to see how development actually works as well as it does here.

This also leaves the door wide open for any 'agents' to come in and do a bit of homework, effectively starving eircom League clubs of players that should be coming through the system.

It is really up to clubs to build better relationships with junior/schoolboy clubs and ensure there is a better system in place for youth to progress in this country.

One thing we dont hear alot of is eircom League clubs getting players from up north. Rarely do we hear of moves happening where players are coming south. Eastern Europe keeps cropping up as a possible place to find talent that could ply their trade over here. Clubs will definitely have to start looking at their options anyway.

[pete]

I get the impression that Irish League clubs & players are happy with the semi-pro situation. Training twice a week & getting handy semi pro cash when games don't involve much travel is too easy for them with few willing to move south for fulltime football.

Doyle, Murphy & Hoolohan have all left the eL in the last year with new entries to the league.

Compare that with last 2-3 years when a long list of players joined the league after being released in mid-season. Half the CCFC 1st team were snapped up on freebies after the players released from the UK due to cost cutting.

[monutdfc]

It is worth remembering that the days of a peak of something like 150 Irish teenagers heading over to the UK are over. The collapse of ITV Digital coincided with this cohort (who had the benefit of a full-time training in the game) reaching maturing as players, hence the injection of new talent into the league a few seasons ago.
The flip side of less kids going over to England is that there should be more young players with talent staying at home, and as Face says we need a system to bring these players though to the eL

[A face]

Half the CCFC 1st team were snapped up on freebies after the players released from the UK due to cost cutting.

I think all eircom League clubs should be looking to bring back guys who are bench warming across the water. The City team has really improved with guys who had been over coming back into the fold.

[Poor Student]

One of the few points made by Roddy in his column in the Star on Sunday over the last while was along these lines. When it seemed Byrne's departure was imminent he was pointing out that if Shels did not replace him with someone as good as or better then the quality of players in the league would diminish. He was saying how he felt clubs weren't near as active enough as they should be in bringing outside better talent. Yes of course he did indeed go on to pat himself on the back and mention his endless hours toiling English lower league games and how no other manager was prepared to put in the effort.:rolleyes: That said for all his Carlton Palmers and Ekokus he did bring in McCourt and Hunt this way.

[Macy]

I think all eircom League clubs should be looking to bring back guys who are bench warming across the water.
Most have - Cork were only part of that trend. For example we brought back Ferguson, Dillon, Gartland, Paisley (off the top of my head) at the same time.

[pete]

The point i have been making is that inward flow of players has dried up dramatically this season. Also a lot of players came in during Jan-Feb as they knew would be released in the summer anyway & not learning anything in the reserves playing in front of 100 people.

[A face]

Another point here is that there are no academies in this country .... when Kerr got the flick and Stan was brought in, all that time barstoolers were pointing this out, no youth coming true (alot of them wouldn't know if there was or not though, seeing as they have no interest in the domestic game) and we saw Stan mention the 'Granny rule' almost straight away.

There is a clear need now, more than ever to change attitudes towards training and development. Its not good enough to hear of McCaffrey's 5 nil drumming of Lativa or whoever if players are developing proper technical skills, and whats even more worrying is players at that age no getting a game if they aren't with an English club, are the McCaffrey's and Given's the ones responsible for Irish players being no where near their European counterparts on a technical level ??

[Macy]

See the press is thinking it's great that a 15 year old has been signed by an English club. :rolleyes:

I put a large part of the blame on the self styled nursery clubs - cattle marts would be a better description. They're more interested in having the kudos of sending x number of kids over to England every year rather than the players welfare. They couldn't give a toss what happens as long as they can put a plaque on the wall for the few that make it.

The FAI has to drive the issue, forcing links between eL clubs and the schoolboy clubs and making it a rule that only Irish based players up to and including Under 21.

They also need to bring in a rule that school boys can't play for teams outside their county, or outside a certain radius from their home - this would stop the Dublin nursery clubs poaching players within a 2.5 hours drive from the smoke.

[soccerc]

See the press is thinking it's great that a 15 year old has been signed by an English club. :rolleyes:

Macy, I agree totally with you, here is a rough unsubbed version of an article I wrote for the local paper in January.

“My Missus used to live in Clondalkin. I worked nearby. It is hardly a hotbed of football activity”, was a comment I read on a Celtic supporters internet forum last week where they were discussing the imminent move of Roy Keane to the Glasgow club.

It struck me that whomever wrote it didn’t really know what they were talking about and I dismissed the notion at the time. Sure there are plenty of football clubs in Clondalkin catering from the very young right up to those who still play well into their 40’s.

The words didn’t go away and they kept coming back into my mind, eventually getting me thinking and after some reflection I believe the anonymous writer may just have a point. I may not be in total agreement that Clondalkin is “Hardly a hotbed of football activity”, but there is some merit in the words.

There are 23 separate clubs in Clondalkin, some field just one team, others over ten. Some are purely adult clubs while others have a schoolboy and youth section, so the basis for a successful club or clubs operating in our community are there. However, what I am about to hypothesise will possibly cause offence to some but hit the nail on the head with others.

We have too many clubs in Clondalkin and this results, to a point, in a dilution of talent resulting in a scramble for the best players. Indeed, many potentially talented younger players are not even playing for their local club having been drawn outside of Clondalkin to some of the larger better known clubs who annually are in contention for silverware.

These clubs are not successful for no reason, do they exist just to give players the opportunity to play a game of football? No, In my opinion they exist for the glory of picking up a league title or a cup, players being chosen for representative honours at league or national level. They are successful because they recruit the best players from smaller clubs elsewhere and hardly represent the communities in which they are based, yet some kids aspire to sign for them.

So what is the answer, one big club? I don’t believe so. Amalgamation of existing clubs in distinct geographic areas of Greater Clondalkin, possibly, but that in itself could create other problems.

Football needs dedicated people to organise, fundraise, manage, coach, mark pitches and put up nets and the coming together of two or more clubs into a single entity could see the loss of some of these volunteers for various reasons. Every club has it’s own identity and the loss of that independence would be bound to upset some who have put in the hours over the years. On the other hand it could mean more talent available to the clubs concerned who can then attract the best players from their catchment area resulting in more competitive sides challenging for honours..

One thing that cannot be lost and is vital to this hypothesis is that everyone who wants to play should be accommodated. Not everyone is a Shay Given, Roy Keane, Damien Duff or Robbie Keane and clubs would have to provide an outlet to those who are less capable yet eager to participate, nobody should feel unwelcome.

In late September the Football Association of Ireland issued a report compiled by Genesis Management Consultants into the workings of the eircom League. Genesis says radical reform is required it to survive. The report said that radical reform of the eircom League is required to secure its future. It added that many clubs are financially unsustainable and the League in its current format is near to being bankrupt, economically and commercially as a sporting product. Genesis recommended sweeping changes to its, the eircom League structures and operations in order to sustain itself into the future.

Maybe what Clondalkin soccer needs is it’s own strategic review of it’s current state and develop policy to move forward the game within our community, creating a sense of ownership and identity.

Perhaps then, in a few years time our clubs will be challenging the best in the country and producing players whom may one-day pull on the green shirt of Ireland just as we have Alan Quinn at the moment

[Dodge]

I can think of virtually no quality additions to the league this close season
What great players came in last season? SOme kids signed all through the league. We'll have to wait and see who makes an impact

[Wiseguy]

There are so many problems with soccer in this country it will take years to sort it out. When kids start out there is no proper structure in place for them to develop. They go around to different grounds and they have to tog out on a minibus as there are no changing rooms. Then they have no shower facilities after games. This is a problem throughout the country as nobody wants to invest in soccer. You don't find this at GAA grounds which have all weather pitches,changing rooms,flood lights and in some cases club houses.

Any young soccer player worth his salt wants to play in England because that is what they are exposed to.
The FAI should put in place and fund schools of excellence at every LOI club in the country and have properly trained and qualified development officers in place to develop the talent & there should be a LOI at all underage levels.

[Red4Eva]

Sligo Rovers
In -
Chris Turner (Derby County)
Keith Foy (Monaghan)
Adam Hughes (Doncaster)
Gavin Peers (Mansfield)
Jamie McKenzie(Hibs)

sounds like we're the only club working hard enough to bring players in. also we're building a coaching centre soon.

[ColinR]

bringing players from abroad has been very hit and miss in recent years for most eL clubs. just because the players have been in england or wherever does not mean that they are any good.

we have let sandvliet go (though he would have been a squad player and he was popular), but we still have ristilla. in recent years we have been badly burned in bringing certain players over (ray wallace, chritian roberts, dai thomas, dave smith), but we also have found some gems (darren beasley, stuart taylor & ristilla).

it does seem to be a tactic used by promoted teams more often. As has been said here plenty of times when arguing over 10/12 team divisions, there is only so much talent in this country. Most of that talent lies in existing premier division clubs, and players would need the motivation of good money to move from an established premier club to a newly promoted club. Hence sligo seem to be the only importers when they went up - we did the same in 02, and other promoted clubs have done similar since as well.

[Soper]

Incidentally, Dai Thomas looks more like a pub rugby player than footballer now.

[Dodge]

When did he get out of prison?

[pete]

What great players came in last season? SOme kids signed all through the league. We'll have to wait and see who makes an impact

I'm not familiar enough with other clubs but we got Roy O'Donovan when released from Coventry reserves. Now established U21 international player & IMO best U21 player in the league - huge hopes for him this season.

I really meant more irish players returning home than foreigners being brought in. Irish returned home mainly because current clubs couldn't afford large squads and/or decent money in the eL now.

I don't know much about underage football but can't see it ever changing as no deserve to change it.

[Dodge]

I was just making the point pete that loads of players came home and were ****. Its only ever 1/2 that make a real breakthrough. O'Donavan returning to Cork went pretty unheralded and there loads the same this year. There's nothing to suggest that 1/2 of them can't make the same moves as ODonavan

[gustavo]

Sligo Rovers
In -
Chris Turner (Derby County)
Keith Foy (Monaghan)
Adam Hughes (Doncaster)
Gavin Peers (Mansfield)
Jamie McKenzie(Hibs)

sounds like we're the only club working hard enough to bring players in. also we're building a coaching centre soon.

you are doing irish football a great disservice there by assuming these players are going to be any good just because they came from england. I wouldnt be surprised if the most effective out of the lot of them players came from monaghan and not mansfield:)

[The Stars]

red4eva was only making an observation and not saying that these players will do better than foyzer

[A face]

I don't know much about underage football but can't see it ever changing as no deserve to change it.

That is definitely not enough reason not to try though .... something has to be done.

[monutdfc]

I put a large part of the blame on the self styled nursery clubs - cattle marts would be a better description. They're more interested in having the kudos of sending x number of kids over to England every year rather than the players welfare. They couldn't give a toss what happens as long as they can put a plaque on the wall for the few that make it.

They also need to bring in a rule that school boys can't play for teams outside their county, or outside a certain radius from their home - this would stop the Dublin nursery clubs poaching players within a 2.5 hours drive from the smoke.
Here's the other angle on it:
http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=33643
I didn't realise Diarmaid O'Carroll played for Home Farm. He's from Kerry ffs!

[Magicme]

Yeah monutdfc him and Stephen Finnegan were on the same team at Home Farm. Also Darren O'Dea was with Home Farm at the same time.

As for new talent coming thro, there is plenty. We are a small club and we have alot happening with our underage players so am sure its the same all over the country.

[Red4Eva]

you are doing irish football a great disservice there by assuming these players are going to be any good just because they came from england. I wouldnt be surprised if the most effective out of the lot of them players came from monaghan and not mansfield:)

f*ck sake ur incredibly negative. i was merely pointing out that connor has put a lot of effort into signing these players. the turner saga speaks for itself, it took 4 months but he got his man. in no way did i suggest these players are are going to be successful but connor did not just pick up any auld randomers floating around england, he targeted adam hughes months ago and eventually he got his no.1 target. peers comes highly recommended by gerry cassidy&alex bruce and i think he'll definitely be a success

[superfrank]

I wouldn't be too worried about "lack of new talent", it'll give all the other younger players who stayed at home more chances in the first team.

By the way, watch out for David Tyrell at Shels this season.

[A face]

I wouldn't be too worried about "lack of new talent", it'll give all the other younger players who stayed at home more chances in the first team.

I know what you're saying frank but invariably when a good player stays in the league, then it raises the standard and it raises the barr for the players who that stayed at home, improving the standard. Thats what písses me off when people argue "can stop a player wanting to better themselves", they never see the effect if has when they leave, true is it never crosses their mind, they couldn't give a toss ..... i know most will say, thats the way it is, or tough shíte, etc. and i agree but the fact still remains that when young players are being carted off wholesale across the water, it leaves a problem and why is it wrong to try and address that.

[JC_GUFC]

I can think of virtually no quality additions to the league this close season & surely this is a concern for all the league as we not producing many players up through the U21 ranks?

What does the future hold?

This is the Irish u-21 which won :eek: this week's tournament in Madeira....


Republic of Ireland under-21s: Darren Quigley (UCD) – Keith Keane (Luton Town), Richard Keogh (Bristol City), Darren O’Dea (Celtic), James Hand (Huddersfield Town) – Stephen Grant (Waterford United), Gary Dicker (UCD), Michael Timlin (Fulham), Alan O’Brien (Newcastle United) – Anthony Stokes (Arsenal), Stephen Ward (Bohemians). Subs: Christopher Deans (Waterford United) for Grant (84 mins), Roy O’Donovan (Cork City) for O’Brien (90 mins).


6 of the 13 players used are from eL clubs.

[Bald Student]

Don't forget 3 of the 4 goals scored were by Ward and Dícker

[CollegeTillIDie]

What do UCD bring to the League? Developing young talent like Darren Quigley and Gary Dicker and others. There are very few teams in the EL who currently do not feature players who learned their trade at Belfied !:cool:

It's interesting that the more EL players Don Givens picks the better the Republic of Ireland Under 21's become now isn't it?

[Magicme]

Well done to James Hand....ex Mons.

[A face]

It's interesting that the more EL players Don Givens picks the better the Republic of Ireland Under 21's become now isn't it?

Just think this is worth repeating ..... its a shame we cant increase the size of the font for text though !!

[pete]

Republic of Ireland under-21s: Darren Quigley (UCD) – Keith Keane (Luton Town), Richard Keogh (Bristol City), Darren O’Dea (Celtic), James Hand (Huddersfield Town) – Stephen Grant (Waterford United), Gary Dicker (UCD), Michael Timlin (Fulham), Alan O’Brien (Newcastle United) – Anthony Stokes (Arsenal), Stephen Ward (Bohemians). Subs: Christopher Deans (Waterford United) for Grant (84 mins), Roy O’Donovan (Cork City) for O’Brien (90 mins).


I was referring to players brought into the league this close season compared with the last few years (itv digital collapse). Ward & O'Donovan came back from the UK, not sure about the others. Very few players in the top clubs are brought up through the junior-u21 ranks.

[harry crumb]

Shane Long came up through the u-21's.

Overall this is just another negative post by Pete.

[A face]

Shane Long came up through the u-21's.

Overall this is just another negative post by Pete.

Harry, to be honest .... you named one player who played five minutes eL football and then you had a dig at Petes opinion :eek:

Seriously though, do you not think there is a problem .... The Star Newpaper today had something about Admir Softic's old club FC Sarajevo are looking for compensation from City, we all know there isnt a hope they have grounds for it and they are looking for silly money too .... but just that alone spells out the need for home grown talent or Irish talent across the water to come into the system here.

I have given my opinion above to a degree and i agree with Pete so you might say i'm biased but surely you must see the point being made ???

[Poor Student]

It's interesting that the more EL players Don Givens picks the better the Republic of Ireland Under 21's become now isn't it?

Probably due to the fact that they have a lot more competitive first team experience than their English based counterparts? What conclusion would you draw?:confused:

[CollegeTillIDie]

Probably due to the fact that they have a lot more competitive first team experience than their English based counterparts? What conclusion would you draw?:confused:

The EL has gotta be more competitive than any reserve Division Cross channel. Even San Marino's Top Division would be !:p

[Carlin]

Ward & O'Donovan came back from the UK, not sure about the others.

Wardy came from Portmarnock, not back from the UK.

[Poor Student]

I think Quigley came back from Man City too.