View Full Version : Battle of Omagh
I'm surprised been no comment on this here.
Reading somewhere about how quiet the GAA have been about Compromise Rules violence after pitch battles in Omagah last week.
Personally i think its just part of amateur sports. Used to have the samr stuff in rugby until players realised they could lose their career. eL was a lot more physical too before football was a career.
gspain
10/02/2006, 8:39 AM
I'm surprised been no comment on this here.
Reading somewhere about how quiet the GAA have been about Compromise Rules violence after pitch battles in Omagah last week.
Personally i think its just part of amateur sports. Used to have the samr stuff in rugby until players realised they could lose their career. eL was a lot more physical too before football was a career.
The week they came back moaning about the Aussie thugs a 15 yearold was beaten unconscious at a senior game in Laois and a judge banned a man from playing GAA for 5 years for excessive violence. The GAA were outraged that a judge could do that.
Such scenes are encouraged by the GAA as it makes their games look attractive. A bit like Ice Hockey where the fights are part of the attraction.
geysir
16/02/2006, 12:43 AM
I don't know why you choose to comment on a game you clearly have no interest in and have no appreciation of and have no desire at all to appreciate it. You could be accused of indulging in voyeurism :)
Such scenes are encouraged by the GAA as it makes their games look attractive. A bit like Ice Hockey where the fights are part of the attraction.
Maybe you can explain this extraordinary statement even if just to humor me.What's the basis for it? who in the GAA encourages violence in the sport? Who in the GAA thinks that it makes the game more attractive?
CollegeTillIDie
16/02/2006, 8:10 AM
geysir
By the action or inaction of disciplinary committees until relatively recently.
GAA suspensions used to be a joke. People who committed this type of fouling in matches in November ..would be given 12 or 13 week bans.
There would be no football played in December and January worth speaking of during this ban but it made no difference.
In soccer bans have always been for a specific number of games. And referees for all their faults in soccer at least do not chicken out of issuing red cards. But then in soccer they don't look referees in the boots of their cars very often. The refs get other hassle at lower levels but all out melees like you saw in Omagh are fairly rare at the top level of the game in this country.
CollegeTillIDie
16/02/2006, 8:13 AM
A bit like Ice Hockey where the fights are part of the attraction.
I agree with almost all of the posting this extract comes from.
One modification. NHL Ice hockey is where the fights are part of the attraction. That sort of behaviour is not tolerated in European club hockey or in international hockey as you will see in the Winter Olympics, and bans for unacceptable behaviour in that sport are imposed rigourously.
geysir
16/02/2006, 12:22 PM
geysir
By the action or inaction of disciplinary committees until relatively recently.
GAA suspensions used to be a joke. People who committed this type of fouling in matches in November ..would be given 12 or 13 week bans.
There would be no football played in December and January worth speaking of during this ban but it made no difference.
In soccer bans have always been for a specific number of games. And referees for all their faults in soccer at least do not chicken out of issuing red cards. But then in soccer they don't look referees in the boots of their cars very often. The refs get other hassle at lower levels but all out melees like you saw in Omagh are fairly rare at the top level of the game in this country.
After the scenes at Omagh I did not read or hear one statement from the GAA, the media or amongst GAA followers that support the post by gspain.
"Such scenes are encouraged by the GAA as it makes their games look attractive".
I suspect it is just the rumblings of a soccer bigot.
I am open to rational arguement which relate to the present.
There are many problems with appropriate discipline methods in GAA as there are in soccer in dealing appropriately with cheats.
9 players have been charged with breaches of rules 140 and 138 after Omagh.
The highly competitive games last w/end involving Dublin and Tyrone were played in the spirit that is more common to such games. Both referees were prompt (and over anxious) with issuing yellow cards, all accounts praised the level of skill from the underdogs. Both games well attended. A credit to the GAA.
9 players have been charged with breaches of rules 140 and 138 after Omagh.
Being charged means nothing if convictions and bans are not dished out. Could you imagine the reaction of the media if this had happened at an eL match and the crowd had got involved as happened in Omagh?
If the GAA took discipline and violence seriously yellow cards would actually count for bans, or they would have stuck with the sinbin. The fact that you can get two yellows and sent off and face no further punishment is nearly as ridiculous as the fact that you could get a yellow card every game for your whole career without ever serving a ban.
The double standards of the media annoy me more than anything else when it comes to stuff like this, particularly the continued failure of them to ram back down the GAA throats all the comments made after the compromise rules...
I agree with almost all of the posting this extract comes from.
One modification. NHL Ice hockey is where the fights are part of the attraction. That sort of behaviour is not tolerated in European club hockey or in international hockey as you will see in the Winter Olympics, and bans for unacceptable behaviour in that sport are imposed rigourously.
NHL has huge bans for fighting too. Ridiculoously long. They want to be seen clamping down on this but there's very little doubt that the fans see the voilence as a attraction. I know I did when I went to see it...
NY Hoop
16/02/2006, 2:18 PM
Being charged means nothing if convictions and bans are not dished out. Could you imagine the reaction of the media if this had happened at an eL match and the crowd had got involved as happened in Omagh?
Stupid comparison. Football is not a contact sport where GAA is. Secondly I was in Omagh and the crowd were not involved except for abusing the Dubs players and chucking water on them.
Bottom line nobody was hurt but of course it shouldnt have happened. However on the day some of the Tyrone players going down after they were pushed like they were shot and rolling around is bound to anger any player.
As for gspain his anti GAA ramblings are boring at this stage. Personally I have no time for people who hate a certain sport. It's beyond sad. I dont have much time for cricket but I certainly dont hate it...........
Read comments by Irish or british players who went over to play French league rugby. Weekly mills were and sometimes are the order of the day.
KOH
Docboy
16/02/2006, 4:29 PM
The way I saw that game was a southern team finally standing up to the abuse, intimidation and off-the-ball hits that have been a feature of the successful Northern teams over the last few years. Watch any of these teams and see how they hit every player who has already off-loaded the ball to prevent them popping up further on in the play. Very cynical stuff and I for one, while not condoning violence, was happy to see a Dubs team standing up for themselves.
Tyrone made a big deal cos they, like most bullies, don't like it when the tables are turned.
Does the Battle of Omagh undermine the GAAs position when they complained about the Aussie violence in the makie-uppy rules series?
Big melees were common enough in the eL 10 years ago but faurly rare now as players rely on football as a career.
geysir
16/02/2006, 7:48 PM
If the GAA took discipline and violence seriously yellow cards would actually count for bans, or they would have stuck with the sinbin. The fact that you can get two yellows and sent off and face no further punishment is nearly as ridiculous as the fact that you could get a yellow card every game for your whole career without ever serving a ban.
Macy Did you watch the Omagh game? I get the impression that you don´t much care for gaelic football.
Sin Bins are an option for the ref in Rugby. I didn't see that it had much effect on the amount of real extra curricular violence on the pitch in the game against France, the results of which were clearly visible on the faces of the players. Do Rugby players face any sanctions if they receive a yellow card in every game? The GAA are trying to deal with their specific game, a sport which has physical contact. Why do you think the rules of one sport can be applied to another and assume that it is a solution?
To deal with 30 players, a long pitch and a fast moving game I think a referee in each half is worth an experiment.
There are immediate consequences for a yellow in rugby - the sin bin. You obviously didn't watch rugby pre-professional era if you think it's act hasn't significantly improved. Football that doesn't have a sin bin, but has bans for accumulated yellows. The GAA has nothing, even for a 2 yellow's sending off. You can't be arguing that this is right?
NY Hoop
17/02/2006, 3:01 PM
Big melees were common enough in the eL 10 years ago but faurly rare now as players rely on football as a career.
WHAT?:eek:
KOH
geysir
17/02/2006, 6:26 PM
There are immediate consequences for a yellow in rugby - the sin bin. You obviously didn't watch rugby pre-professional era if you think it's act hasn't significantly improved. Football that doesn't have a sin bin, but has bans for accumulated yellows. The GAA has nothing, even for a 2 yellow's sending off. You can't be arguing that this is right?
So Macy you are prepared to comment on a game you have not seen in a contact sport you don't care about and not consider worthy of mention the level of violence witnessed in the International rugby game which you did view. If Rugby has improved as you say since the introduction of yellow cards/sin bin then its from xxx to x rated. Its interesting that a fellow can get battered around the face as for eg. Jerry Flannery did and you don't bat an eyelid, yet a few melees at Omagh ( a game you did not watch) with no bodily harm in a poor niggly game in front of a large well behaved crowd (who at worse a few spill some water) and you are full of accusations that the GAA condone violence. Leave it up to the GAA to sort out their own sport, all these disciplinary procedural issues have their supporters and detractors. Any moron can see that some change has to happen and it will, in GAA time of course :)
http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/GAA/Full_Story/did-sgSZfQ7-sD-IY.asp
So Macy you are prepared to comment on a game you have not seen in a contact sport you don't care about and not consider worthy of mention the level of violence witnessed in the International rugby game which you did view.
I think he commented on rugby i.e. there is an immeadiate consequence for rugby violence. The rules of rugby say you should grab people & dive on top of people. Gaelic football has no such rules.
Gaelic football had the sin bin but after brief trial removed it for some reason - too many players in the sin bin?
The fact remains rugby violence has reduced dramatically since professionalism was legal.
geysir
17/02/2006, 8:25 PM
Gaelic allows for the shoulder charge and an undefined tackle.
No rugby rule allows for the battering that Flannery (a new cap?) received in the opening minutes. Any Irish supporter would expect Flannery to stand up to the provocation and return the welcome, discreetly. The refs appear to use their common sense in Rugby when it comes to retaliation. There appeared to me to be a persistent acceptable level of violence (way beyond what the rules allow) in that game, the sin bin was a quiet place. I thought that's the way Rugby is played at that level.
Personally, I saw nothing unusual about the Dublin midfielder decking his Meath counterpart with a solid punch after some provocation before the ball got thrown in at the Leinster s/f. That's GAA, every Dub supporter would expect no less from their midfielder. All that right in front of the ref who dished out the yellow card and not the obvious red.
I would hazard a guess though that he had to curtail his 'enthusiasm' for the next 80 minutes in order not to get sent off. The statement that the yellow card as it stands now in the GAA has no effect is not valid. The ref imposed himself carefully and the game was the better for it.
A sin bin might be an option in GAA but it's the quality of the refereeing which is more important in my opinion, rather than depending on widening the range of punishments expecting to achieve a positive effect. The first professional in GAA should be the referee.
So who exactly inflicted that damage on Flannery and when did it happen? What other extra curricular activities did your eagle eye spot?
It might be just me but I didn't see anything. I didn't hear any complaints, see anyone approach the referee nor did I hear that anybody had been cited. We did however see a full on brawl in Omagh which resulted in 4 red cards and I dont know how many yellows. There can be absolutley no comparison drawn between these 2 games and I find it incredulous that you tolerate this rubbish. I used to play GAA up untill a couple of year ago but know I cant even watch half the games with all the pulling and dragging, late hits and cynical tactics used by teams to either mask their footballing abilty or bully less physical teams off the park. The fact that is has spread to every county fielding teams has put me off it untill they get a pair off balls and send every thug who takes someone out late or constantly fouls into the bin. The game is a sham at the moment.
geysir
18/02/2006, 7:03 PM
There can be absolutley no comparison drawn between these 2 games and I find it incredulous that you tolerate this rubbish.
eh? where did I tolerate the rubbish at Omagh.
Personally, I saw nothing unusual about the Dublin midfielder decking his Meath counterpart with a solid punch after some provocation before the ball got thrown in at the Leinster s/f. That's GAA, every Dub supporter would expect no less from their midfielder.
No mention of Omagh but I doubt you were shocked and appalled.
Any luck finding the skull duggery from Paris?
Rubgy has in the past given smaller bans to allow players play international but Gavin Hensons recent ban which denied him 2 international matches was different.
IMO Gaelic football is much poorer sport than Hurling to watch purely because of the level of fouls - too much dragging allowing teams then to pack their defense when fouls awarded.
geysir
20/02/2006, 12:11 AM
Is it not so that a player is much better off if the ref spots the foul and gives the red card rather than the player getting cited later?
The IRB recommended suspensions for hacking, stamping or trampling an opponent is 6 weeks if the action is to the body and 12 weeks if it is to the head. I guess O'Driscoll was very fortunate that he had some brownie points when all citing committee were struck with a see no evil on his stamping/rucking with both feet on Bergamasco's body against Italy
Is it not so that a player is much better off if the ref spots the foul and gives the red card rather than the player getting cited later?
The IRB recommended suspensions for hacking, stamping or trampling an opponent is 6 weeks if the action is to the body and 12 weeks if it is to the head. I guess O'Driscoll was very fortunate that he had some brownie points when all citing committee were struck with a see no evil on his stamping/rucking with both feet on Bergamasco's body against Italy
Paris?
geysir
20/02/2006, 8:42 AM
No mention of Omagh but I doubt you were shocked and appalled
Soko, that's an imaginative inferance.That point I made was about examples of common sense refereeing used by both codes for retaliation punishment.
[/QUOTE]Any luck finding the skull duggery from Paris?[/QUOTE]
After 10 minutes in the that game Flannery's face was puffed up like a battered boxer, easily visible at the first line out, looked like half of the damage was done in the first scrum that Ireland were overpowered in. I'd suggest the early juggernaut 'contact' made on Bowe by Rougiere was a very heavy hit not exactly covered by the tackle definition but deemed quite acceptable. Most visible is the "rucking" of a player caught on the wrong side of the ruck, its illegal but most times it's tolerated. I don't have a problem with rugby, rugby players give as good as they get, the players don't whine nor do they hassle the ref. Both teams know what's expected. The following quote is fair enough assessment of what goes on.
"In the spirit of the day, what wasn't seen was often deemed acceptable. When you went on the field with Ireland you knew you were getting into a war," says Wheel (a Welsh player). "It was dog eat dog. There was no malice in it. You just wanted to do the best you could for your country. It was the same for Ireland. One thing you knew about the Irish boys, they were always in your face. I always had great respect for them."
I would say there are very few who would find that statement unrepresentative.
re GAA
the game is a sham at the moment.
Imo, not on the evidence of last years championship.
Putting aside serious foul play for the moment, I just dont like watching football as much as I used to. I didn't see too many games this summer as I was away but then I couldn't have been bothered to make the effort to get up and pay $20 to go to a pub at 10am to watch fellas pullin out of each other for 70 minutes. The late hits after a ball has been played **** me off no end and I haven'y seen 3 men in a full forward line in years. Thats just a personal gripe though, the others need to be stemmed.
geysir
20/02/2006, 11:24 PM
If you had got up out of bed and paid $20 to witness Tyrone v Donegal you would have seriously questioned your sanity. But any of the 4 Croke Pk. games involving Dublin would have been a reasonable gamble for entertainment. But not many echoes of a Mick O'Connell fielding the ball with such ease, elegance and making space for himself.
NY Hoop
22/02/2006, 1:55 PM
Big melees were common enough in the eL 10 years ago but faurly rare now as players rely on football as a career.
Wanna explain this bizarre comment????
KOH
Wanna explain this bizarre comment????
Ok maybe not melees in GAA understanding of the word but certainly used to have regular stand-offs with 10 or more players in the eL. In last 5 years i can't remember one but not been to enough Shels matches ;)
Dodge
08/03/2006, 12:06 PM
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0308/suspensions.html
Suspensions lifted
Funny those suspensions being lifted. Maybe they GAA are trying to encourage that style of play so have chance to "beat" the Aussies at the makeyuppie rules next time?
What a farce. Sean Kelly wont be a happy man after this joke of a decison.
finlma
08/03/2006, 1:13 PM
It an absolute disgrace that the suspensions have been lifted because of some piece of beuracracy.
No wonder people laugh at the GAA - bunch of cowboys.
It an absolute disgrace that the suspensions have been lifted because of some piece of beuracracy..
Did this happen a couple of years ago after some sort of legal threat? :confused:
Number9
10/03/2006, 6:46 PM
Go and watch any underage gaelic match say from U14 up. 90% of games are reffed badly, allowing what could only be deemed thuggery to go unpunished on the pitch. Discussions after the match in the clubhouse refer to this behaviour as "part of the game" or "Its a mans game". Offensive language goes unpunished as well. If it is allowed at underage, there can be no doubt that it will flourish at adult level.
Just imagine Brian O'Driscoll telling the ref he was a B******s and that he should F*** **f.
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