View Full Version : Was McCarthy Right To Send Keane Packing?
dahamsta
23/05/2002, 3:26 PM
Well? What does the discerning Foot.ie member think?
adam
No way, I dont care what happened he should not have been sent home.
Home. especially if those comments were true
"Row Z" MCCarthy should have been sent home. The FAI said it is because of his interviews with RTE and the IT. What was so wrong with what he said? That pr*ck McCarthy is to blame for this, because if he was a half decent manager, things would nnever have come to this.
Definitely right to send him home. Especially after he said he was retiring from international football and was going home the day before only to change his mind. Anyone who does something like that doesn't deserve to play at a World Cup.
Originally posted by COLM
No way, I dont care what happened he should not have been sent home.
COLM,
do you do anything other than stir ****... You make a rash comment without making the arguement, once fine, but second consective time.....will you sit up and say more than 'no he shouldn't have been sent home'....
your a disgrace... and a bit of a boll!x
Given all* the reasons in the media, at the moment I believe McCarthy was right...
*pending the stories in the aftermath of the world cup
dahamsta
23/05/2002, 3:46 PM
Let's be honest oddboy, if Keane hadn't gone around complaining about everything like a spoilt brat, it wouldn't have come to this either. His behaviour was an absolute disgrace, I don't care who he is. I'd question the sense of sending him home, but when you get right down to it, what was left? He'd already threatened to leave, how do we know that he wouldn't have put his heart and soul into if he'd stayed?
adam
dahamsta
23/05/2002, 3:51 PM
Heh, thanks for inadvertently pointing out that the censor was turned off Xlex. :)
adam
Originally posted by Vetinari
Heh, thanks for inadvertently pointing out that the censor was turned off Xlex. :)
adam
Trust me to highlight such an issue...... LOL
Originally posted by Vetinari
Let's be honest oddboy, if Keane hadn't gone around complaining about everything like a spoilt brat, it wouldn't have come to this either. His behaviour was an absolute disgrace, I don't care who he is. I'd question the sense of sending him home, but when you get right down to it, what was left? He'd already threatened to leave, how do we know that he wouldn't have put his heart and soul into if he'd stayed?
adam
1)It was only because of him "complaining about everything like a spoilt brat" as you call it, that anything has improved in the FAI. Remember this is the crowd who run the national league of this country, the same league which we do not know for certain yet has been won by.
2) McCarthy has said that he picked the base in Saipan. He picked an island that did not even have a football pitch.
3) We qualified for Korea/Japan over 6 months ago, yet they could not send the training gear on time.
4)McCarthy wants "to enjoy the world cup". Keane wants to try and win the thing.
5) The FAI press conference stated that the 2 interviews RK gave were the reason he was sent home. I've read the Tom Humphries interview, and seen O'Donoghues interview on TV. What did RK say that was so wrong?
6)RK may have been wrong in the way he delivered the message, but is that reason enough to shoot the messenger?
7) When has RK EVER played a game for Ireland that he did not put his heart and soul into it?
8) I'm f*cking gutted that RK is not there, he is worth more to Ireland than 10 McCarthys and he is ten times the man McCarthy could ever hope to be.
Nothing personal Adam, but this hurts and I really think RK is getting the sh*tty end of the stick here. The f*cking PR campaign is in overdrive already.......................:(
Wizzard
23/05/2002, 4:24 PM
I'm agree wholeheartedly with oddboy on this one.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh
i just wrote a big long fat answer then went to reread it and to be honest you cant and should post about 50 lines of text with so many expletives in it when 1 will do
**** IT ANYWAY :(
The Legend
23/05/2002, 8:41 PM
In my opinion both McCarthy and Keane are idiots...
They should realise the country is bigger than both their ego's.
Well thanks a lot... our World Cup is totally ruined now... I dont have any confidence in the remaining squad to overcome this!
Keane may as well stay in England now, i dont think he will be welcome back home.
I reckon he will be in number of "incidents" with the public after this.
Does anyone else, feel a tinge of blame resides with Man Utd too? F***kers, i was a casual utd fan, but as of today i am not!
dahamsta
23/05/2002, 8:52 PM
1)It was only because of him "complaining about everything like a spoilt brat" as you call it, that anything has improved in the FAI. Remember this is the crowd who run the national league of this country, the same league which we do not know for certain yet has been won by.
Granted, some of Keane's complaints were justified, however some of them were plain-jane grandstanding. Keane is a star, so he has to be given some leeway, but there also has to be limits. Besides, since when has anything improved in the FAI? Keane was whinging years ago.
2) McCarthy has said that he picked the base in Saipan. He picked an island that did not even have a football pitch.
McCarthy maintains that they were on Saipan to acclimatise. Seems like a perfectly valid explanation to me.
3) We qualified for Korea/Japan over 6 months ago, yet they could not send the training gear on time.
My answer to this would depend on who "they" is.
4)McCarthy wants "to enjoy the world cup". Keane wants to try and win the thing.
I don't see why they can't do both.
5) The FAI press conference stated that the 2 interviews RK gave were the reason he was sent home. I've read the Tom Humphries interview, and seen O'Donoghues interview on TV. What did RK say that was so wrong?
No idea.
6)RK may have been wrong in the way he delivered the message, but is that reason enough to shoot the messenger?
Yes, he acted unprofessionally. If nothing was coming from the proper process, I accept that it's time to go to the press. But any civilised person should be able to do that without slanging, bitching and whining. Temper tantrums solve nothing, and let's be honest, Keane had a temper tantrum.
7) When has RK EVER played a game for Ireland that he did not put his heart and soul into it?
Well, his heart and soul doesn't seem to be in the World Cup, now does it. But I accept that there's a difference between on the pitch and off it.
8) I'm f*cking gutted that RK is not there, he is worth more to Ireland than 10 McCarthys and he is ten times the man McCarthy could ever hope to be.
Well, I'm sorry to hear it. But what's done is done. They either have to kiss and make up now, or get on with the job without him. I'd prefer that they settled their differences, but that doesn't seem likely.
Nothing personal Adam, but this hurts and I really think RK is getting the sh*tty end of the stick here. The f*cking PR campaign is in overdrive already.......................:(
We're all getting the sh*tty end of the stick here, but my point stands: Keane is hardly blameless. In the PC, you could see the media out for McCarthy's blood -- that was wrong.
adam
brine2
23/05/2002, 10:45 PM
An Ireland without Keane goes 1-0 down at home to Andorra.
We're screwed.
from ireland.com
Feel-good factor over as manager betrays us
The feel-good factor is over. Depression starts now. Who cares who forms the next government? The World Cup is finished. A page has been ripped from our book of hopes and we will never be as optimistic again.
We've lost our captain, Roy Keane, one of the greatest mid-fielders in the world. We want Keane on the pitch, not on the plane.
We will not get over this, no matter what Jimmy Magee says. Roy was the spirit and soul of not just the Irish team, but of the greater Team Ireland and it was up to Mick McCarthy to manage him, nurture him and keep him within stable boundaries.
It's our children that are most confused and disenchanted. Keane is their hero. They believed that Ireland could win, and, innocent as it may seem, Ireland was going to win because of Keane.
How do we explain to them that their dreams are dead because of ridiculous, petty squabbles between adults? Especially when the child in all of us feels let down by McCarthy's narrow-mindedness.
If you are a manager of vision, you do not let go of your ultimate resource. You let him throw tantrums, if that's what he has to do. You let a key player like Keane vent his concerns in the media, if it makes him feel better.
You let him act like a prima donna, if that's the case. You make sure he's happy with the travel arrangements and training facilities. When he's working his magic on the field, it's all worth it.
McCarthy has called Keane a "disruptive influence". Sorry, Mick, but all geniuses are disruptive. They mix things up and flip the world on its axis.
It's why they're great. As a manager with an eye on the wider picture, you have to be even bigger than a Roy Keane.
It doesn't matter whether you've got official World Cup balls in Saipan or not, you have to have the balls to make your hero feel like one while still retaining confidence in your own leadership.
Like a good parent, your first responsibility is to contain your child within a world that makes him feel safe and secure. You must have the empathy to get inside his head and understand his fears and insecurities.
You have to know him better than he knows himself and give him the conditions he needs to flourish. That doesn't mean you let him walk all over you, it just means you're stronger than he is. Psychological studies of successful managers of corporations have found that they share one quality: emotional intelligence.
They are people managers who know how to inspire performance. Mick McCarthy betrayed his immaturity when he said that his finest player was having "personal problems", as if this was an aberration.
Of course Roy Keane was having personal problems. The rest of the team are likely to be having personal problems too. Being a high achiever with the hopes of a nation riding on your performance, is a very personal problem.
You struggle with your confidence night and day. Stress, anxiety and injury, as Keane has admitted , is part of what you are paid for. Likewise, those who manage stars like Keane are paid to deal with their performer's stress, anxiety and injury.
McCarthy's passion and commitment shouldn't be to bolster his own ego, it should be to nurture each of his players as individuals. It is McCarthy's job to ensure that personal problems don't get in the way of success. McCarthy may justify sending Roy Keane home as being beneficial for "the team", but without its star player to galvanise them, there is no team.
A group of people can function under the control of a leader, but good leaders know that to win, rather than merely function, you need errant geniuses who do the unexpected. Individuals like Keane are different than you and me. We in Ireland hate genius. When the heads of the poppies grow too high, we mow them down.
We despise achievement and accomplishment. The only way an Irishman can get recognition is if he succeeds abroad and becomes "British" or "American".
When he comes home, he had better be careful. We won't stand for any of that "personal" nonsense. Our pride in the Irish team was one way we were breaking through these insecurities to celebrate ourselves.
We may slag Bono with his aspirations for global healing, but Roy Keane - who quietly gave away a substantial proportion of his money to charity - was a man of the people. If only Bertie could go in and sort it out. We don't need Bertie as Taoiseach as much as we need him to be manager of the Irish team.
As a consensus man, Bertie wouldn't have let this happen. He would have stayed awake for 36 hours talking to all sides before he let it things deteriorate into a victory of one ego over another. Bertie wouldn't have been into the blame-game.
He would have risen above the petty squabbles about facilities, food and football and seen the bigger picture. He would never have sent Roy Keane home. If Roy Keane had chosen to resign, on the other hand. . . But that's not the point. Our hero has been sent home. Our manager has betrayed us. We are bereft.
gustavo
24/05/2002, 9:18 AM
Especially when the child in all of us feels let down by McCarthy's narrow-mindedness.
what about the child in us that would give his left arm to play in the World Cup and wouldnt moan about conditions just because they arent up to his standard . i mean fine he was rright but he had no right to bring it up now and then make it an issue where by he was prepared to sacrifice his last chance to play in the worlds biggest tournament
Jim Smith
24/05/2002, 9:27 AM
....has the entire sporting world become a WWF franchise ?
Troy.McClure
24/05/2002, 1:25 PM
Irwin backs Keane over 'amateurish' FAI
Denis Irwin has stood up for former Manchester
United and Republic of Ireland team-mate Roy
Keane, accusing the Irish Football Association of
`amateurish' organisation - but said he thought
Keane would be feeling 'very lonely'.
Irwin, whose United career came to an end this
season, sympathises with Keane, who was kicked out
of the Irish World Cup squad following a row with
manager Mick McCarthy.
He told the Daily Express: 'This has been developing
for quite a while. The FAI are amateurish in the way
they do things - the way we have travelled, the hotels
we have stayed in and the training facilities laid on
for us.
'Roy brought this up a couple of years ago and things
did seem to improve.
'But you can see by their flights to the Far East - from Dublin to Amsterdam to
Tokyo and then out to Saipan - it was a gruelling trip and they should really have
flown direct, like England.
'Roy is serious about football, he wants his team-mates to think the same way as
him and he wants training to be perfect because they are playing in a World Cup.
'I'm sure Roy will be feeling a very lonely man. There are no winners in this, only
losers.
'Roy's a loser, Mick's a loser and the other players are losers and so are the fans.
They are going to miss a world-class player.'
Originally posted by Xlex
COLM,
do you do anything other than stir ****... You make a rash comment without making the arguement, once fine, but second consective time.....will you sit up and say more than 'no he shouldn't have been sent home'....
your a disgrace... and a bit of a boll!x
Given all* the reasons in the media, at the moment I believe McCarthy was right...[/SIZE] Xlex, I am just stating my opinion, which I am entitled to do. I think it was the wrong decision to send Roy home, I feel that had Jack Charlton or Alex Ferguson been in charge they would have handled the situation in a far better way. At USA 94 Roy had a row with Maurice Setters, Jack sorted it out and then made them both appear before the press and deny that the whole thing ever happened.
Roy has been in trouble a fair few times at United and Alex always sorted it out without having to leave things go this far.
Paul McGrath said today that he often said much worse things to big Jack and that he felt Roy was treated unfairly.
Dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of Mick McCarthys but I just feel he handled this situation very badly.
Xlex, it looks to me like you are very angry about the whole sorry mess and that you decided to direct all your frustration at me!! :rolleyes:
But thats ok I understand you need a way of releasing your anger!!! :p
kilbrin
24/05/2002, 2:37 PM
It is Micks fault and it shows how he is a bad manager by how his star player has no respect for him.
This all started a ling time back and should have been sorted back then.
yeah COLM, I was a bit p!ssed off yesterday and I am now... I was abit rash but as far as I'm aware you didn't qualify your statement and I was sick of people here at work stating that McCarthy was wrong cos Roy Keane is the best player in the world sh!te.
I don't listen much to ex-pros, because that was then and this is now....
I don't listen to Grumpy because he has book interests...
I listen to the facts which are:
1. Mick McCarthy was verbally abused beyond a reasonable manner.
2. Roy Keane blasting excerises and facilities which were basically for R&R.
3. Roy Keane stating numourous times that He wasn't there for Roy Keane. If it was up to him he'd be at home.
4. Roy Keane retiring from international football and saying he's going home only days before the World Cup.
Why didn't he act injured and save face...
Can I add one more:
4. Roy Keane retiring from international football and saying he's going home only days before the World Cup.
Shows how much the World Cup and his teammates mean to him. Most people would give their right arm to play in a World Cup, Keane is prepared to throw it all away on a whim. Some professional he is. Also I don't buy this crap about how we've no chance now. So we would have a chance with a half-fit, disinterested, team-morale poisoning, anywhere-but-here Roy Keane would we? This rubbish that some hysterics are spouting about begging him to come back and getting the Taoiseach to intervene is absolutely sickening. Does the rest of the team not matter to them?
By the way, antone see on Sky News I think they showed Keanes front gate in Manchester and somebody has attached a babys soother to it. Quite funny really.
Cheers MikeW... meant to add that to my post..
RamblersWeb
24/05/2002, 6:41 PM
some members of the squad and backroom are going to make a mint writing books about all this after the WC
gustavo
24/05/2002, 7:14 PM
Amoan Grumpy knows this will make great copy for the autobiograhy so he is milking it for all its worth
Sinéad
25/05/2002, 7:54 AM
Originally posted by COLM
Xlex, I am just stating my opinion, which I am entitled to do. I think it was the wrong decision to send Roy home, I feel that had Jack Charlton or Alex Ferguson been in charge they would have handled the situation in a far better way. At USA 94 Roy had a row with Maurice Setters, Jack sorted it out and then made them both appear before the press and deny that the whole thing ever happened.
Roy has been in trouble a fair few times at United and Alex always sorted it out without having to leave things go this far.
Paul McGrath said today that he often said much worse things to big Jack and that he felt Roy was treated unfairly.
Dont get me wrong, I am a big fan of Mick McCarthys but I just feel he handled this situation very badly.
Xlex, it looks to me like you are very angry about the whole sorry mess and that you decided to direct all your frustration at me!! :rolleyes:
But thats ok I understand you need a way of releasing your anger!!! :p
You heard what Jack had to say last night on the Late Late Show and he made it quite clear that he wouldn't just have sent Roy home but he would have "kicked him out the door". No manager would take that sh!te apart from Ferguson. Him and Keane are well met....
Mc Grath seems to be of the opinion that Jack was abused even worse then Mc Carthy and Big Jack stood for it. He's not called Big Jack for nothing. He stated his case clearly last night. "I'm on Mick's side....Roy was wrong"
he was right. It's regrettable but he was. No one denies that keane had a point in his complaints, but that does not excuse him throwing a wobbly and absuing mccarthy like that. I'm more and more convinced ferguson had a role in this to be honest. keane should NEVER play for ireland again unless he publicly apologises to mccarthy his teammates and the country.
grow up roy :mad:
brine2
26/05/2002, 10:20 AM
Read this:
http://breaking.tcm.ie/story.asp?j=19335052&p=y93354z6&n=19335523&x=
Originally posted by Éanna
I'm more and more convinced ferguson had a role in this to be honest. Yeah, yesterday Ferguson came out and said that he never wanted Roy to go and play in the world cup in the first place.
I bet hes sitting at home right now with a big smug grin on his face.
"The balls are sh*t. The pitch is sh*t. This place is sh*t. Why are we here? What are we doing? We are getting injuries. I have an ankle injury and I am really unhappy"
Who said this?
It was Edmilson, talking about Brazil's prepartion for the WC, and their match in Malaysia.
Was he called before a squad meeting to explain himself?
Was he sent home?
Is he being called a "prima donna" in Brazil?
The answer to all these questions is NO.
Who is in charge of the Irish management, which repeatedly makes a f*ck-up of simple things like kit organisation?
Which international team manager has a journalist travelling with him, at all times, to ghost-write his WC diary, a journalist who has repeatedly written anti-Roy Keane stories and encouraged Irish supporters to boo Keane?
Which international team manager choose an island, that did not have a football pitch, to prepare for the WC?
Which international team manager is "at the the WC to enjoy himself" ?
Mick McCarthy. This is the man who got us here, did he?
Éanna
27/05/2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by oddboy
"The balls are sh*t. The pitch is sh*t. This place is sh*t. Why are we here? What are we doing? We are getting injuries. I have an ankle injury and I am really unhappy"
Who said this?
It was Edmilson, talking about Brazil's prepartion for the WC, and their match in Malaysia.
Was he called before a squad meeting to explain himself?
Was he sent home?
Is he being called a "prima donna" in Brazil?
The answer to all these questions is NO.
I don't see any comments in there calling his manager a w*nker, questioning his personal or professional integrity, so thats probably why he wasn't sent home.
brine2
27/05/2002, 11:31 AM
If Edmilson was called before the entire Brazilian squad and accused by Scolari of letting his country down and faking injuries in previous matches, then perhaps he might call Scolari a w*nker, or whatever the Portuguese equivalent of the word is. And who could blame him.
Firstly I think Roy should have been sent home & he disgraced both himself & his country.
The Irish Times interview was a superb interview & while Keane had some valid points the whole list of them just made it sound like he a moaning prima dona. Like it or not McCarthy is the manger & if Keane wants to play international football he got play under him.
- If the pitch is a little hard is it such a major thing considering that island to be used as an accimtisation base which IMO looks like a good choice since they were (supposed) to be away from the media glare & relax & get the squad bonding.
- Its not good players out til 5am partying but leaving the WC because of that is like a kid going home & taking his ball with him.
- Roy moaned about having to mix with press & fans at Dublin Airport - jeez i'm sorry for him havinmg to mix with ordinary people.
- Sure the squad could have flown direct like england but does anyone think the FAI can afford to charter a jumbo jet like england?
- Late training gear is hardly a vital matter in the run up to the WC when they sqiad be resting for a couple of days after a long flight.
Roy Keane has apparently been like that for years, rooming on his own & not mixing well with the rest of the squad. He may be captain on the pitch but he clearly unable to captain a squad off the pitch for a few weeks together prior to a tournament. If Roy had a room-mate maybe he could have taken his gripes out on him instead?
IMO McCarthy made a bad decision to have a team meeting but then again he hardly expected the level of abuse Roy is reported to have delivered. McCarthey had no option to sent Roy home as he would have lost any respect the rest of the squad had if he accepted the abuse.
Do we hear African players from top european teams abusing their national team manager when they giving poor training facilities? Do you think the Cameroon team have as good facilities with thei national team as when playing for top european team? I doubt it.....
James
27/05/2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by pete
- If the pitch is a little hard is it such a major thing considering that island to be used as an accimtisation base which IMO looks like a good choice since they were (supposed) to be away from the media glare & relax & get the squad bonding.
ok and this is only a small point on the matter
roy keane is a winner, alays gives 100% etc etc
all i have heard in interviews b4 and after have been how the other lads are having a laugh out there, enjoying themselves..
its the world cup finals lads... whats all this enjoying yourselves and relaxing lark about.. keane is one of the best players in the world and wanted to show this on the greatest stage the WC finals..
i beleive the term is 'if you want fun then you should go to the circus' :)
and as for away from the media glare, well if only this was the case we might not have had any of these problems or at the very least they wouldnt have been in the media spotlight so much.
there was media all over the place in Seipan... i mean the lads had this stupid BBQ and a few beers with the press, the same press that had slated keane on several occassions in the past , and only a week earlier at the quinn testimonial..
Originally posted by pete
- Sure the squad could have flown direct like england but does anyone think the FAI can afford to charter a jumbo jet like england?
yea why the hell not.. where is all the money they have made since euro 88 goneto??
Originally posted by pete
IMO McCarthy made a bad decision to have a team meeting but then again he hardly expected the level of abuse Roy is reported to have delivered. McCarthey had no option to sent Roy home as he would have lost any respect the rest of the squad had if he accepted the abuse.
definately and this is what ****es me off so much, mccarthy and keane have a long running thing going on for years, and i think keane was baited by McCarthy at this public meeting.
mccarthy is an international football manager
he manages a national country because he is supposedly the best man for the irish job
part of his position is football - which i dont agree with some of either (ANOTHER STORY) but the other is Management
~ the mangement of men
how the hell he let a roy keane that was so aggitated situation develop is beyond me.. this could and should of have been smoothered long ago, and sorted man to man by the 2 of them or at least left to sort after the WC
Originally posted by Éanna
I don't see any comments in there calling his manager a w*nker, questioning his personal or professional integrity, so thats probably why he wasn't sent home.
Scolari did not call a team meeting, wave the interview in his face, and accuse Edmilson of feigning injury.
If McCarthy had a problem with the interview, he should have approached Keane privately.
Keane has been accused of "running to the press".
MaCarthy has a journalist with him all the time to write his WC diary. The journalist is Cathal Dervan, the f*cking w*nker who has had it in for Keane for years. McCarthy has two newspaper columns and at least 5 other players have as well. Mattie Holland, said in one of his columns that now that Roy is gone, he "was happy when he got on the bus, singing We're on the one road, and start enjoying himself again". Well good for him, that he gets a good holiday and is paid for it.
The only player who really wanted to try and win is at home, while we have a package holiday representing us...... :(
Oh and pete, can you explain to me how "he has disgraced his country" ???
Originally posted by oddboy
Oh and pete, can you explain to me how "he has disgraced his country" ???
Because we are a joke now. Being out of the country i had the displeasure of listening to every two bit radio presenter in the UK have a laugh Keanes tantrum & us indirectly. Plus Roy has left the squad short 1 player now.
Btw after seeing the irish insults The (London) Times wrote on its front page i'm not buying the Sunday Times again.
I would speculate that McCarthy had a team meeting as Roy Keane criticised (i agree with most of it) his team mates too in the IT interview.
I read Hollands diary piece & he didn't say it like that:
Make no excuses, we have lost our best player but next morning the famed Irish atmosphere was back as we sang lots of songs on the team bus, including our favourite "We're on the one road", and now the saga's over there is a definite sense of relief at Keane's departure. He had been his usual brooding self since our arrival in Saipan.
Matt Holland in the Independent (http://sport.independent.co.uk/world/ireland/story.jsp?story=299060)
I don't think the players should be up til 5am less than 2 weeks before the WC but when the squad stuck with each other for probably a month its impoirtant they get on together. I'd expect the team to concentrating & training hard this week as no point peaking too soon?
Originally posted by pete
Because we are a joke now. Being out of the country i had the displeasure of listening to every two bit radio presenter in the UK have a laugh Keanes tantrum & us indirectly. Plus Roy has left the squad short 1 player now.
Btw after seeing the irish insults The (London) Times wrote on its front page i'm not buying the Sunday Times again.
Surely it's "every two bit radio presenter in the UK " who are the disgrace? Irish insults, or any insults about any race, disgrace the people who make them.
Not the people who are the butt of them.
So again, how has Roy Keane disgraced us????
Matt Holland has written more than one column in the Independent and is a dab hand at giving interviews.
Poor Mattie is relieved, and is glad to be rid of the brooding presence. Well, Mattie baby, 100 of you are not worth one Roy Keane, with all his bad humours, brooding presence, tantrums or anything else...
Originally posted by oddboy
Oh and pete, can you explain to me how "he has disgraced his country" ???
I don't think he disgraced his country- he only disgraced himself and anyone who doesn't realise that is either blind or stupid.
Yeah not really disgraced more like let the country down. That doesn't mean other people didn't leave us down either.
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