Shels Want to build a Casino at dalymount

[Block G Raptor]

Someone please tell me this is a wind-up:(
http://www.thebohs.com/elevenaside/eleven-a-side.asp

February 8, 2006


Shels target Dalymount


The most successful side of the last decade Shelbourne have exciting plans for Dalymount Park, soon to be announced as their new home. These plans include two bars, a crèche, a casino and a tactics suite.


Although the move has yet to be fully approved by Bohs members sources close to both clubs have indicated that a rejection of the proposed ground-share, while inconvenient, would prove little more than a delay as a full contingency plan has been worked out between the boards of both clubs.


According to one source, "both parties are mindful of the Bohs members' reluctance to embrace change, but, with the full support of the FAI's John Delaney, both boards are determined to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century."


He told us: “John (Delaney) is determined to deliver Genesis in full and on time. Crucial to that is Shelbourne being re-housed at their Northside neighbours venue. He recognises that there are those who will move heaven and earth to stop this going ahead, but they don't know John very well if they think their protest will prevail”

[sligoman]

What's wrong with having a casino there? Plenty more money coming into the club if their was....

[Block G Raptor]

According to one source, "both parties are mindful of the Bohs members' reluctance to embrace change, but, with the full support of the FAI's John Delaney, both boards are determined to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century."


He told us: “John (Delaney) is determined to deliver Genesis in full and on time. Crucial to that is Shelbourne being re-housed at their Northside neighbours venue. He recognises that there are those who will move heaven and earth to stop this going ahead, but they don't know John very well if they think their protest will prevail”

Its the last two paragraphs that worry me most

[WeAreRovers]

Someone please tell me this is a wind-up:(

It's a wind-up. ;)

KOH

[Mark Breen]

The fact there is no mention of this on Eleven-a-side if you go in directly then i believe it to be a **** take from the unofficial web page

[NY Hoop]

"Tactics suite":D

What do you think?

BTW boez wont do any business with shels until oily is out of the picture.

Oily running a casino:D


KOH

[Jerry The Saint]

Someone please tell me this is a wind-up:(
http://www.thebohs.com/elevenaside/eleven-a-side.asp

February 8, 2006


Shels target Dalymount


The most successful side of the last decade Shelbourne have exciting plans for Dalymount Park, soon to be announced as their new home. These plans include two bars, a crèche, a casino and a tactics suite.


Although the move has yet to be fully approved by Bohs members sources close to both clubs have indicated that a rejection of the proposed ground-share, while inconvenient, would prove little more than a delay as a full contingency plan has been worked out between the boards of both clubs.


According to one source, "both parties are mindful of the Bohs members' reluctance to embrace change, but, with the full support of the FAI's John Delaney, both boards are determined to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century."


He told us: “John (Delaney) is determined to deliver Genesis in full and on time. Crucial to that is Shelbourne being re-housed at their Northside neighbours venue. He recognises that there are those who will move heaven and earth to stop this going ahead, but they don't know John very well if they think their protest will prevail”

I heard about this plan a while ago. John Delaney and Ollie Byrne have their hearts set on capitalising on the Texas Hold 'Em craze that is gripping the nation. Tough break for the Bohs members but it's too late to put a stop to it now - the (roulette) wheels are already in motion. You can't fight City Hall - FACT!

[Block G Raptor]

I heard about this plan a while ago. John Delaney and Ollie Byrne have their hearts set on capitalising on the Texas Hold 'Em craze that is gripping the nation. Tough break for the Bohs members but it's too late to put a stop to it now - the (roulette) wheels are already in motion. You can't fight City Hall - FACT!

Actually after giving it some thought ive decided fcuk it the roulette wheel's go quite well with our Club colours as will the colour of the cash it'll be pulling in

look's like its a wind-up alright(a well executed one I may add) fair play to thebohs.com they had me going there for a few seconds

[WeAreRovers]

BTW boez wont do any business with shels until oily is out of the picture.



If they have any sense. IMO both Bohs and Pats have a big fight ahead of them. Those clubs have the most to lose under the new proposals.

I have no doubt that a) Pats will be forced into a groundshare with us and b) Bohs will be shafted over Dalymount and both Bohs and Shels will end up in Abbotstown. Hey presto, the government "sorts out" football in the capital in time for the general election.

Luckily for Bohs they are the only Dublin club sitting on a very valuable asset and they should stick to their guns. Once Ollie and Delaney get their hands on even a tiny bit of Dalymount it's bye bye Bohs and bye bye the "home of Irish football".

Maybe this might put a rocket under Bohs collective lard arses and they might start thinking for themselves. After all, they are a members club that owns its own ground - they hold most if not all the aces. And for a change I'll be rooting for Bohs in this particular battle.

KOH

[Roverstillidie]

WAR, what happens if they are denied a vote on this? oh, wait a minuite....

[WeAreRovers]

WAR, what happens if they are denied a vote on this? oh, wait a minuite....

;)

That's why it's imperative that the "Provisional" wing (for want of a better word) of Bohs membership get up off their arses now and get rid of Cuffe and the other wasters. Delaney and Ollie will run rings around the current elected fools in Dalymount.

Believe it or not there's a lot of smart people following Bohs - I know that's counter-intuitive but it's true - now it's up to them to save their club and their ground. Having said all that the FAI won't lose any sleep if Bohs (or Pats) go to the wall and come to think of it neither will I. ;)

KOH

[chippie0001]

WAR, what happens if they are denied a vote on this? oh, wait a minuite....
I love how you think you know more about our club rules. Its simple no board can enter into this deal without 66% or 75% majority of members. To change that rule they need the same majority. So requiring those numbers will make it very easy if the members choose to say No. The clubs can talk away but unlike Milltown we have the say. Also it may not be a bad deal, 15,000 seats in our own stadium, still owning half it, funded by Shels and the Government. Far better than having an agreement to play 40 games a year somewhere.

I don't think the deal will go through in the end, there are games being played here of that there is no doubt, but too many members are against it. Also both our president and club sec have not run for the new board.

[Roverstillidie]

but are you getting a vote on it?

[sullanefc]

Luckily for Bohs they are the only Dublin club sitting on a very valuable asset and they should stick to their guns.

A valuable asset isn't much good if they are not going to exploit it. If Bohs play their cards right they can make a lot of money in a deal with shels.

[thejollyrodger]

is this story for real ??? well it would help with the finances but I dont know what the rest of the EL would say. Not everyone will be allowed casinos

[Mr A]

well it would help with the finances but I dont know what the rest of the EL would say. Not everyone will be allowed casinos

In fairness- what would Shels care what the rest of the league says? The whole area of gaming licenses and legislation is a mess. The law is totally out of date so in some parts of the country (Bray, Salthill, Bundoran) etc its allowed and then in other places it's not- it depends on the attitude of the local authority. It certainly is a license to print money if it is set up though, although local residents may not be too pleased.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Shels with a casino... it's a novel idea. They gambled last year on winning the League with their transfer policy... so who knows? :D

[chippie0001]

but are you getting a vote on it?

There is nothing to vote on yet. The members will be asked can the board talk to Shels thats it. When the talks are finished, the deal agreed, then we get a vote.

[Roverstillidie]

:confused:
There is nothing to vote on yet. The members will be asked can the board talk to Shels thats it. When the talks are finished, the deal agreed, then we get a vote.

so they have been using their psyschic powers until now?

[chippie0001]

:confused:

so they have been using their psyschic powers until now?
Who have?

[sfc red]

Wow a full house at Dalymount???????????

[Roverstillidie]

Who have?

what have they been doing if you need to mandate them to talk to shels? passing notes?

[chippie0001]

Take your blinkers off. If AIB are merging with BOI, do they talk to the shareholders. NO, first they have negotiations and see if the proposal is viable, then they go public and continue discussing. Lastly when the deal is done, both sets of shareholders Vote. This is all that is happening here.

[pete]

Take your blinkers off. If AIB are merging with BOI, do they talk to the shareholders. NO, first they have negotiations and see if the proposal is viable, then they go public and continue discussing. Lastly when the deal is done, both sets of shareholders Vote. This is all that is happening here.

In such a scenario both boards would have to approve the initial discussions for them to start.

[chippie0001]

In such a scenario both boards would have to approve the initial discussions for them to start.
Exactly and both boards have. The vote does not come until the deal is final.

[Roverstillidie]

so the bohs board hold talks with shels, then if there is talks to be had approach you for permission to start talks? and i have blinkers on....

you can understand the outside worlds confusion.

[chippie0001]

so the bohs board hold talks with shels, then if there is talks to be had approach you for permission to start talks? and i have blinkers on....

you can understand the outside worlds confusion.

I fail to see the confusion, the board can do what they like, can talk to anyone they want on the ground. Without a vote they can go no further. What they want at the AGM is an idea if members are in favour, if not they may as well stop now. Simple really. Put simply they don't need permission to talk, but will be wasting their time if they have no chance.

[TonyD]

[QUOTE=WeAreRovers]If they have any sense. IMO both Bohs and Pats have a big fight ahead of them. Those clubs have the most to lose under the new proposals.

I have no doubt that a) Pats will be forced into a groundshare with us /QUOTE]

Pats shouldn't let themselves be bullied by Delaney, or anyone else over this. We have our own ground, and that's where we should stay, regardless of any promises/threats made by ANYONE. We don't need to groundshare. The talk in the papers has been of using the sale of Richmond to finance Pats part of the ground in Tallaght. So we end up with no more money, in a new ground well away from our traditional support base. Can someone tell me how that benefits Pats ? I don't like John Delaney one little bit, and I don't trust him with the future of our clubs or our league.

[pete]

Shels have clearly got a sweet deal with the FAI going on due to Ollie-Delaney relationship.

As an outsiders view this is how i see it
- Bohs have strong history in Phibsboro & own most of their own ground (only so much you can sell off) but attendances have been poor in last 2 years & were not great even when winning the league. Movement to Abbotstown on their own would be best move.
- Shels have no local support in Drumcondra, poor support but are due cut of sale of tolka. However when tolka is sold will be homeless & need at least temp home for 3-4 years. FAI will help them out by encourages Bohs to share.
- Pats have best community link as feels like locals actually go to games. Least commercial opportunities & worse ground make opprtunity to stay & develop or move to greenfield site difficult.
- Rovers best future in the long term if they get into Tallaght. Won't want Pats sharing as will dilute local support especially if Pats playing in the Premier & they still in the first division.

The only ground share that makes sense is Bohs-Shels but its Bohgs decision as they own the ground.

[Dodge]

Thats ablout the size of it but I reckon within 3 years BOhs and Shels will be playing at Abbotstown and Pats and Rovers playing in Tallaght.

And I won't be going to the games...

[Dr.Nightdub]

We all know the officially-desired scenario (or think we do, anyway). But either way, it'll take at least three or four years for it to come together - they'll need that much time to build Abbotstown and finish Tallaght and for us to get ourselves in a position to sell Richmond.

In the short term, I reckon the Bohs fans are the best chance that Pats and Rovers have for avoiding a groundshare. My gut feeling is that the majority of both clubs' fans would sooner not have to, although among both, there's also a sense of hopeless inevitability about the prospects.

Bohs have the most to lose by letting Shels into Dalymount. At worst, they'd be sharing with their nearest geographical rivals and rivals who, in the short term at least, are likely to be more successful on the pitch - that'd be some sickener for Bohs fans to swallow. At best, they'd be cutting Shels in for half the re-sale value of the place. We saw last year how much opposition there was to letting Rovers in as tenants, can you imagine the hostility if the deal on offer was Shels as co-owners?

Both clubs moving to Abbotstown might soften the blow but it'd mean Bohs giving up their spiritual home, the same as us moving to Tallaght would. The difference is that Bohs would be giving up a ground they own. I'd be interested in hearing Bohs fans' feelings on such a scenario, but I can't exactly see it being warmly regarded.

As I understand it, because of the membership structure, neither sharing nor selling Dalymount could go ahead without Bohs fans' consent. Unless there's an enormous carrot waved, I can see them resisting either course of action, though I'd imagine resistance to letting Shels into Dalymount would be far more intense.

A "Phibsboro Says No" outcome would throw the whole groundsharing of two Dublin stadiums project right off the rails. If Shels going to Tallaght was floated as a response, it'd immediately block the FAI moving us out there and the two-grounds objective would be stymied, so that wouldn't really be a long-term option.

That leaves only the status quo, which neither the FAI / government nor Shels want. They could always plough on ahead with Abbotstown and move Shels out there as sole tenants in say, three years' time, then starve us and Bohs into groundsharing, but by then you'd be looking five or six years down the line and I just don't see the FAI suddenly developing the kind of capacity for long-term planning which that would require.

In the meanwhile, the pressure for an All-Ireland League will be growing and what are they gonna do, try and persuade Linfield and Glentoran to groundshare as well? I could see Gerry Adams playing centre forward for Linfield sooner than that happening.

It all hinges on the attitude of Bohs fans - if they insist on staying in Dalymount as sole owners, the whole project unravels. Ain't democracy wonderful? Of course, as either TonyD or Jerry the Saint said on the Pats MB, a change in government in next year's election could upset the applecart as well.

[bohs til i die]

Shels have clearly got a sweet deal with the FAI going on due to Ollie-Delaney relationship.

As an outsiders view this is how i see it
- Bohs have strong history in Phibsboro & own most of their own ground (only so much you can sell off) but attendances have been poor in last 2 years & were not great even when winning the league. Movement to Abbotstown on their own would be best move.
- Shels have no local support in Drumcondra, poor support but are due cut of sale of tolka. However when tolka is sold will be homeless & need at least temp home for 3-4 years. FAI will help them out by encourages Bohs to share.
- Pats have best community link as feels like locals actually go to games. Least commercial opportunities & worse ground make opprtunity to stay & develop or move to greenfield site difficult.
- Rovers best future in the long term if they get into Tallaght. Won't want Pats sharing as will dilute local support especially if Pats playing in the Premier & they still in the first division.

The only ground share that makes sense is Bohs-Shels but its Bohgs decision as they own the ground.


Pete,
In my mind, Bohs moving to Abbotstown would be like Cork's move to Bishopstown. It would kill the club and remove us from the centre of the city. Abbotstown is only really reachable if you drive and quite a lot of Bohs fans dont drive to matches as they would remain in the bars afterwards. Abbnotstown would kill the social aspect of the club.

The year Shels won the league from Pats, Bohs beat Cork twice in Turners Cross in front of 1500 fans on each occasion. Cork's crowds have only turned up in the past few years with success on the field. Our potential in Dalymount is massive if it was tapped into and the club marketed properly. The Kids go free showed a glimpse of what might be possible in October/November 2002 with consistant crowds of 4000, 6000 and 4000 against Pats, Shels and UCD. Our crowds can go from one extreme to the other depending on how well the team are doing and if the marketing is done with any degree of competency.

Moving to a 'greenfield' site on the outskirts didnt work for Cork so why do you think it would work for Bohs? Moving to a site surrounded by industrial estates and with limited public transport makes absolutely no sense.

I also fail to see why Bohs-Shels groundshare makes sense. I am not against the idea but the current proposal on the table makes absolutely no sense. I also think it wont get planning permission and that the FAI know this and are just using it to eventually force the two clubs to Abbotstown.







Roverstilidie,
Our board can talk to Shels, agree a deal with Shels, but they cannot sign it without the backing of the members. The reason being is that the members own the club. They can agree terms for groundsharing etc, but unless they get a majority of members to agree with the proposal they cannot sign it. Hence we will be getting a vote and the board will then know if they should waste time on this idea or concentrate on more important matters closer to home.

What do you not understand about this? If you are selling something which belongs to you would you expect to be the one to mkae the decision or someone else?

[sonofstan]

;)

That's why it's imperative that the "Provisional" wing (for want of a better word) of Bohs membership get up off their arses now

KOH

Provisional wing? at Bohs? more like the Royal Black Preceptory

[pete]

Pete,
In my mind, Bohs moving to Abbotstown would be like Cork's move to Bishopstown.


Without going off topic too much there would not too much opposition to such a move now. When we originally moved to Bishopstown the city bus route stopped 1/2 a mile down the road & was very poor access (possibly similar to proposed shels move to north dublin). If we moved now wouild be next to the Greyhound stadium (loads of parking) & have slip road from the ring road 200m away. You will find that vast majority of City support are looking towards a future possible municipal stadium sharing with other sports on city outskirts.

[Roverstillidie]

Roverstilidie,
Our board can talk to Shels, agree a deal with Shels, but they cannot sign it without the backing of the members. The reason being is that the members own the club. They can agree terms for groundsharing etc, but unless they get a majority of members to agree with the proposal they cannot sign it. Hence we will be getting a vote and the board will then know if they should waste time on this idea or concentrate on more important matters closer to home.

What do you not understand about this? If you are selling something which belongs to you would you expect to be the one to mkae the decision or someone else?

that was my understanding of it, but chippie threw in the line that the board need the nod from the membership to even talk to shels. i asked what they had been doing so far. talks about talks was the answer.

[Jerry The Saint]

is this story for real ??? well it would help with the finances but I dont know what the rest of the EL would say. Not everyone will be allowed casinos

Au contraire, as part of the merger with the FAI every Premier Division club will be required to have a casino. The Department of Sport will offer assistance to each club by supplying them with monkey butlers to work in the casino. How many monkey butlers will there be?:confused: One at first, but he'll train others.

[thomas]

I don't see why pats would want to move? I've been led to believe a lot of the land is leased but Dr.ND also claims pats own some of it aswell. If they cash in on that then we (Rovers) would be competing against a club with plenty of cash in the Tallaght area which is something No Rovers fan wants. I presume pats would also prefer to develop their ground and communuty links where they are and take Grant monies they are Legally Entitled to to develop Richmond Pk.

To be honest if we get our 40 dates is as much as any pitch can take, once the council realise that they wont be so keen to have a groundshare, especially if Rovers end up offering to finish off the project on the usual 33%-66% sports funding basis, thus costing the council no more than the price of cleaning up the mess they started.

[WeAreRovers]

Thats ablout the size of it but I reckon within 3 years BOhs and Shels will be playing at Abbotstown and Pats and Rovers playing in Tallaght.


You're not the only one who reckons that, including people in positions of power.

Doc - great post but as Dodge says the plan is to bounce all 4 clubs into these groundshares no matter what opposition there is. Of the 4 we have no choice and most of us would happily share with Pats if it meant we finally got a home.

Shels/Ollie too would be happy with any groundshare (inc. Tallaght) but Bohs and Pats are a different story. There's a battle coming, make no mistake.

KOH

[Hulsey]

Since it's at Dalymount, any winnings a customer leaves with could be easily recouped if you get my drift...:D

[Schumi]

Unless there's an enormous carrot waved, I can see them [Bohs fans] resisting either course of action, though I'd imagine resistance to letting Shels into Dalymount would be far more intense.
How about a big stick instead? Say, for example, a suggestion that their "potential" and "marketability" would be better if they let Shels in.

[chippie0001]

As someone not opposed to groundshare this is what I would want before I would agree to it:

Until the actual new stadium is in place, the land remains in the name of Bohemian FC 100%. When this stand is in place then Shels can own half the ground. If they actually build the stand I dont see them moving to Abbotstown after spending say €12m or so.

Next the ground would be owned 50/50 no FAI involvment in any shape or form. Also to sell the ground etc at any stage in the future would require a 75% majority meaning with the Bohs members consent no one can do anything other than football.

The new stadium would have to be capable of generating substantial revenue from none football to cover the income we will lose on the rent of the pitch, car park and bars, over €500k pa. Without this income we would be more screwed than we are so long term this income is even more important.

The stadium would have to hold at least 12,000 people or there is no point in doing this. Getting the planning etc for this will be next to impossible so thats why Shels don't own it until the last seat goes in.

Lastly and the biggest stumbling point, how much we get for selling half our rights in the land. This will be the biggest hurdle to jump, with values of €5m to €50m on the site. To me we will not get half the value at development rates but should get far more than what is being offered.

In short Shels get nothing until the stadium is built and we get a big cash injection. On that basis we would be in a good strong position to move forward, if not we should just sit on the land and watch it appreciate in value. Its not as though we actually need more than the Jodi stand. If its a good deal I will think about it, if its pressure from the FAI/Shels and Govt, well they can all talk a running jump.

[MrJoeSoap]

Wow a full house at Dalymount???????????

Couldn't let that go without a "LOL" or a "ROFL".

This "casino" plan sounds like utter nonsense to me.

[bohs til i die]

Without going off topic too much there would not too much opposition to such a move now. When we originally moved to Bishopstown the city bus route stopped 1/2 a mile down the road & was very poor access (possibly similar to proposed shels move to north dublin). If we moved now wouild be next to the Greyhound stadium (loads of parking) & have slip road from the ring road 200m away. You will find that vast majority of City support are looking towards a future possible municipal stadium sharing with other sports on city outskirts.


you have just given a total contradiction to your original point about Bohs moving to Abbottstown being a good move for Bohs.

Abbotstown is everything that Bishopstown was back in the 90's. A field in a not too central location.

[pete]

Abbotstown is everything that Bishopstown was back in the 90's. A field in a not too central location.

Abbotstown is few minutes walk from Blanchardstown Town Centre - i mean the NAC so i suppose stadium be next to it. Has dualcarraige way within view of it too. Anyway the location isn't my main point - just saying i don't see Bohs staying in Dalymount in the long term.

[bohs til i die]

Abbotstown is few minutes walk from Blanchardstown Town Centre - i mean the NAC so i suppose stadium be next to it. Has dualcarraige way within view of it too. Anyway the location isn't my main point - just saying i don't see Bohs staying in Dalymount in the long term.


you dont really know the precise location at all. It would be disasterous for Bohs.

Dalymount is 15 minutes walk from Dublin City Centre, is served by about 20different bus routes and is in a prime location.

If Bohs as a club was run efficiently and with foresight we would be ideally located to be a dominant force in the EL.

[pete]

If Bohs as a club was run efficiently and with foresight we would be ideally located to be a dominant force in the EL.

Ahem... :eek:

IF my aunt had balls...

[Bald Student]

Ahem... :eek:

IF my aunt had balls...The point is that location isn't a problem for Bohs. Changing location won't solve whatever problems they have.

[sonofstan]

The point is that location isn't a problem for Bohs. Changing location won't solve whatever problems they have.

.....and it has the potential to make some of those problems worse. Staying where we are is at the very least, equivalent to stopping digging in relation to the hole* we are in.




* cue 'do you mean Dalymount/ Phibsboro' / Dublin'? comments

[anto eile]

Without going off topic too much there would not too much opposition to such a move now. When we originally moved to Bishopstown the city bus route stopped 1/2 a mile down the road & was very poor access (possibly similar to proposed shels move to north dublin). If we moved now wouild be next to the Greyhound stadium (loads of parking) & have slip road from the ring road 200m away. You will find that vast majority of City support are looking towards a future possible municipal stadium sharing with other sports on city outskirts.

municipal stadiums are fine.
but on the outskirts of the city its a disaster. juventus are the perfect example.
bohs or shels moving to abbotstown would destroy either club. where the fvck is abbostown anyway?
if i were a bohs member, i wouldnt let ollie byrne near dalymount. if ollie gets his hands on 48-50% of the stadium id give it 10 years at the most before he owns a majority of it.
if i was a bohs fan/member,and IF the gypos were to share with shels, one non-negotiable condition i would have is that ollie byrne must step down permanently from ANY official capacity with shels. ie hel be just another fan.

[Raheny Red]

Well at the Shels meeting last night it was said that Shels and Bohs would own 50% each of a company which would be in control of the ground!

When the board were asked "what happens to the ground if either club goes into debt?" They answered "neither club would be able sell the ground to recuperate finances unless it was agreed by both clubs!"