View Full Version : France v Ireland (6 Nations)
finlma
07/02/2006, 12:22 PM
EOS has named an unchanged side. For me this is proof that he doesn't have a clue whats going on and is afraid to make changes. 3 or 4 players should have been dropped. If we lose to France the number of people calling for him to go will increase dramatically.
EOS Out!!
paul_oshea
07/02/2006, 12:42 PM
ya im begining to agree pete made a good ponit, if the players are playing well provincially surely its got something to do with the manager if he cant get the same out of the players on the international stage. I know though that we have more internationals in our provincials side so it isnt a fair reflection in a way, but surely they should be performing better than they are?!?!?!
joeSoap
07/02/2006, 1:50 PM
When playing for Munster or Leinster these guys have much more of a bond...they seem prepared to die for the jersey. Unfortunately this does not transcend to the National team. I have tried my best to like Eddie O'Sullivan, I really have, but now the thin patience that was remaining has vanished.
O'Sullivan said he's picking players on form: Let's see-
Geordan Murphy: Any good form shown for Leicester is at left wing, not full back where he has yet to play a half decent gane for Ireland.
Tommy Bowe: Not a left winger for starters, and has shown zilch for Ulster, or in the Autumn internationals.
Peter Stringer: I feel sorry for this guy- he's pretty sh1te yet theres nobody within a country miles distance of being anywhere near international standard to replace him.
John Hayes: Same as Stringer, although in slightly better form of late.
Malcolm O'Kelly: Need I say anything???
Simon Easterby: Doesn't quite know what position he should be playing in, and as a consequence spends 80 minutes running around the field trying to find out.
Any one named Best: "Oh", says Eddie, "I'll pick ye as subs, but ye haven't got a hope of getting a run cos ye're not good enough, so ye're here in case any of my front row get shot by a passing sniper during the match"
Johnny O'Connor: Better than Keith Gleeson my arse !!
Girvan Dempsey is in the form of his life, and playing him would allow Murphy to return to his best position, and also allow Hickie return instead of that 6ft 4" crock of lard that stands out on the right wing. It now looks like Leamy will be suspended for a while, and thankfully that will allow Foley back in. That in itself displays O'Sullivans mental weakness and ineptitude. His persistence with O'Driscoll as captain amuses me greatly. He's no more a captain than David Bloody Beckham. O'Connell is the only man for that job now that Eddie has prematurely ended the International career of probably the greatest number 8 to ever play for Ireland. Donncha O'Callaghan must be wondering what he did, or has to do to displace the pillar of salt that is Big Mal.
Jesus Eddie, give us a break....:( :(
paul_oshea
07/02/2006, 2:01 PM
foley is ****e, always has proved that for ireland joe soap. agree with the rest though. i have never seen foley reproduce any form for ireland that he has shown for munster. and he hasnt had that many good games for munster either.
joeSoap
07/02/2006, 2:23 PM
foley is ****e, always has proved that for ireland joe soap. agree with the rest though. i have never seen foley reproduce any form for ireland that he has shown for munster. and he hasnt had that many good games for munster either.
A comment like that tells me one of two things:
1). You're a complete idiot that knows absolutely nothing about the game or
2). Youre having a good old wind up. fair play to you.
I'm presuming and hoping option 2 is the answer. If not, then I feel sorry for you and wonder what you're doing posting in a rugby thread.
If it's option 1, did you watch Ireland beat England back to back in Twickenham and Lansdowne Road a few years ago? Ask Jason Robinson who Anthony Foley is. Did you see his hat-trick of tries against Biarritz in the 1/4 final of the Heineken Cup?? A sh1te rugby player doesn't happen upon 62 caps, and over 109 Heineken Cup appearances. When Ireland beat Australia in 2000 just after the world cup, who was man of the match? I'm not going to go on any more.
As I said, I'll presume its answer 2.
I think the time is right to drop Foley but O'Kelly should have went with him.
I see few player options but believe they are bored of EOS now. The squad almsot trains as much as a club team & it hink this might be introducing boredom amoung the squad. When they train together so much a rusty 1st outing is unacceptable.
joeSoap
07/02/2006, 2:34 PM
I think the time is right to drop Foley but O'Kelly should have went with him..Its ok to drop someone if you have a surplus of talent in that specialist position to replace them. Donncha O'Callaghan is a better player at this current time than Mal, and therefore deserves his place ahead of him. Mick O'Driscoll, Bob Casey and Leo Cullen are also playing very well and could also replace him.
The only specialist number 8 in Ireland bar Foley at the moment is Jamie Heaslip, and he's still too young. Leamy, Wallace and Easterby would all only be converted stop-gaps to a position that is not truly their own. I agree with you that Foleys best days are done, but he's still only 32 and the best out and out number 8 playing in Ireland today. For those reasons he should have been retained until next season when Heaslip can come in, or even to give a convert like Leamy more time to accustom himself with the position. The step up to Internationals from Heineken Cup is immense, and O'Sullivan should have thought of that in his 'team-building for the World Cup' process. We still need Foleys experience in that position this campaign imo.
A comment like that tells me one of two things:
1). You're a cpmplete idiot that knows absolutely nothing about the game or
2). Youre having a good old wind up. fair play to you.
I'm presuming and hoping option 2 is the answer. If not, then I feel sorry for you and wonder what you're doing posting in a rugby thread.
If it's option 1, did you watch Ireland beat England back to back in Twickenham and Lansdowne Road a few years ago? Ask Jason Robinson who Anthony Foley is. Did you see his hat-trick of tries against Biarritz in the 1/4 final of the Heineken Cup?? A sh1te rugby player doesn't happen upon 62 caps, and over 109 Heineken Cup appearances. When Ireland beat Australia in 2000 just after the world cup, who was man of the match? I'm not going to go on any more.
As I said, I'll presume its answer 2.
I'll second that, you only realise it when he's gone. How many times do we have to learn this lesson? We only got back to somewhere near competitive when we brought Foley and Galway back.
Whatever happens with Leamy is irrelevant now, EOS has already shown thats he's an idiot. The man is the best 6 we have and is not an international no. 8. Easterby was brutal last week while O' Kelly may have been the worst player out of all 90 players who started last week. Its really pathetic by now and I've given up on this team. Roll on April and the Heiniken Cup, this is a waste of time and money.
joeSoap
07/02/2006, 7:53 PM
Girvan Dempsey; Geordan Murphy, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy (last chance saloon) Denis Hickie; Ronan O'Gara, Peter Stringer; Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes; Paul O'Connell(captain) Donncha O'Callaghan; David Wallace, Keith Gleeson, Anthony Foley.
I reckon that side would give anyone a run for their money in the six nations....But Eddie doesn't seeing as Dempsey, Hickie and Foley aren't even in the squad.
I would have picked Reddan ahead of Stringer, but not for a first cap against a wounded French team in Paris...
David Wallace, Keith Gleeson,
2 specialist open siders. French backrow would destroy either of them at near at no.6
France brought back 6-7 players into their squad all of which would get in the irish team.
Ireland will either pull off shock win or get trashed.
TheJamaicanP.M.
08/02/2006, 11:48 AM
Girvan Dempsey; Geordan Murphy, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy (last chance saloon) Denis Hickie; Ronan O'Gara, Peter Stringer; Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes; Paul O'Connell(captain) Donncha O'Callaghan; David Wallace, Keith Gleeson, Anthony Foley.
Great selection. That would be my first choice team as well. I particularly like the back row - all three men have experience and character.
Is Dempsey still injured? I've always been a fan of his. An interesting stat is that in the world cup year of 2003 and the triple crown campaign of 2004, Dempsey knocked the ball on once. That's once in two years of international rugby. He might not be in same mould as recent French full-backs such as Brusque and Poitrenaud, but Dempsey is a model of consistency. This season, he has been playing the rugby of his life.
Most Irish fans were delighted last season when he lost out to Murphy at full-back for the opening game against Italy. Why? It appears to me that Murphy is lost at full-back. He was poor in last year's Six Nations and he had a poor Lion's Tour. The place for Murphy is on the wing where he might do some damage.
As for our half-backs, ROG and Stringer are just so predictable. However, they are still better than the alternatives.
Following Ireland is a bit frustrating at the moment. We appear to have so much talent. The Leinster and Munster lads are playing great with their provinces, a few young Ulster players are beginning to emerge and we have some players in great from in England. However, we just seem to be lacking in ideas. We have no creativity and the team seems to have lost that fighting spirit that you associate with Irish teams.
Saturday's game will tell us a lot about the character of this team and how committed they are to Eddie O'Sullivan.
joeSoap
08/02/2006, 12:20 PM
2 specialist open siders. French backrow would destroy either of them at near at no.6
Wallace is a specialist blind-side. Its where he learned his rugby, and has played all his best rugby.
joeSoap
08/02/2006, 12:23 PM
Is Dempsey still injured? I've always been a fan of his. An interesting stat is that in the world cup year of 2003 and the triple crown campaign of 2004, Dempsey knocked the ball on once. That's once in two years of international rugby.Sadly those are statistics lost upon those 'in the know'. Dempsey, in the form of his life for Leinster can't get a sniff. He's not injured, just dropped. Murphy has been outstanding on the wing all season for Leicester....it's not rocket-science.
beautifulrock
08/02/2006, 12:58 PM
Joe
I think most of your selection will be playing by the end of the gamne on Sat. More by accident than design which is the worrying part. Leamy I am afraid will get a suspension today, so incomes Foley. Easterby will dissapear again and will be replaced be replaced by Gleeson. Doonacha will come on for Mal (as stated a great servant but one six nation too many). That really only leaves your switch for Murphy and Dempsey.
joeSoap
08/02/2006, 1:03 PM
Joe
I think most of your selection will be playing by the end of the gamne on Sat. More by accident than design which is the worrying part. Leamy I am afraid will get a suspension today, so incomes Foley. Easterby will dissapear again and will be replaced be replaced by Gleeson. Doonacha will come on for Mal (as stated a great servant but one six nation too many). That really only leaves your switch for Murphy and Dempsey.But Gleeson isn't even in the squad or replacements,so that rules that one out. Substituting O'Kelly is a jike...he shouldn't be in the squad any more...and don't get me started on Foley !!;)
joeSoap
08/02/2006, 2:47 PM
Leamy just cleared of stamping offence...free to play on Saturday.
beautifulrock
08/02/2006, 3:28 PM
ok that ends my theory, for some reason I though Glesson was in and stand corrected. Ok now I am offically worried. Still agree with your selection.
finlma
09/02/2006, 10:19 AM
France have made 5 changes. At least Laporte isn't afraid to wield the axe when necessary unlike a certain EOS.
C Dominici (Stade Francais); A Rougerie (Clermont Auvergne), D Marty (Perpignan), F Fritz (Toulouse), C Heymans (Toulouse); F Michalak (Toulouse), JB Elissalde (Toulouse); O Milloud (Bourgoin), R Ibanez (London Wasps), P De Villiers (Stade Francais), F Pelous (Toulouse, capt), J Thion (Biarritz), Y Nyanga (Toulouse), J Bonnaire (Bourgoin), O Magne (London Irish).
$Leon$
09/02/2006, 10:56 AM
just spotted this on IRFU web site
"Marcus Horan has been withdrawn from the Ireland team to play France in the RBS 6 Nations Championship this Saturday (12th February). Horan has been struck down by the winter vomiting bug and will be unable to travel with the squad to Paris.
Leinster prop Reggie Corrigan has been called into the match 22 as cover for the unfortunate Horan and will be travelling with the squad following this morning’s Ireland training session"
joeSoap
09/02/2006, 11:26 AM
Thats a blow...maybe not as big a blow if he puts Reggie straight in instead of Best, but if he starts Best......:eek: :eek:
Schumi
09/02/2006, 3:54 PM
Thats a blow...maybe not as big a blow if he puts Reggie straight in instead of Best, but if he starts Best......:eek: :eek:
Pretty much my thinking but the fact that Best was in the squad ahead of Reggie would worry me.
That bug is quite contagious isn't it? Will other players be affected?
chappie
09/02/2006, 4:46 PM
both reggie and best will be destroyed against the french, reggie will be lucky to last 50 minutes against the french front row and why eddie has decided to pick mal ahead of donnacha just seems to boggle the mind we could well end up being eaten alive in the scrum and the line out barring another masterclass by o connell....
Kingdom
11/02/2006, 1:57 PM
Jaysus this is some 2 nd half.
I might propose that Mr Tony Ward get honorary Quote of the mOnth for this gem....
"Dare we say it, the fat lady's gone missing!!"
Absolute gem. :D
centre mid
11/02/2006, 2:20 PM
dont know whether to laugh or cry - never seen an ireland team make so many unforced errors, fantastic spirit in the 2nd halh - did france take foot off the peddle?
FarBeag
11/02/2006, 4:39 PM
As Keith Wood siad' 'it was a schizophrenic performance by the Irish''. I think France did take their foot of the peddle and it was a shame about all the unforced errors.Great second half to watch for the neutral though.
31 points. We just handed them 31 unearned points *shakes head in disgust*
I never want to see Malcom O' Kelly or Reggie Corrigan in an Irish shirt again. Thanks for the memories boys but you are well past it. Tommy Bowe vs Andrew Trimble - they've known the answer to that one for months up north. Sort it out now Eddie and we could have a cut off the English who are as one dimensional as they come.
EOS needs to go. Ireland did well to keep going but France were 40 points ahead & never going to lose the game. Looks like the layers are bored & EOS & could do with a change...
joeSoap
11/02/2006, 6:04 PM
O'Gara, O'Driscoll, and D'Arcy cost us dear in the first half with a nice blend of horrible kicking and passing. They all had amazing second halves, but by then the damage was done, the pressure was off, and the fat lady disappeared long since Tony, cos the game was well and truly over as a contest at half time, if not before hand. Stringer, strangely enough, had one of his best performances for Ireland, but it was all too little too late, with little substance on the bench.
My ratings:
Murphy: 6. Some good breaks, tackled ok
Horgan: 3. Headless Chicken
O'Driscoll: 7. Dire first half, excellent second.
D'Arcy: 7. Same as O'Driscoll
Bowe: 2. Quite simply not international class
O'Gara:7. Cost us 2 tries, but very instrumental in comeback. Took try well
Stringer: 8. Very busy, good distribution, played his best game in ages.
Corrigan: 1.Poor poor Reggie-savaged
Flannery: 6. Some throws iffy, great workrate around the field. Tackled well.
Hayes: 5. Murdered early on, some good play in the loose.
O'Kelly: 1.Abe Simpson is now a better option.
O'Connell: 8. Could turn water into wine this lad....
Easterby: 4. Not the answer..proven again today.
Wallace: 6. Some good breaks, tackled well, slightly off pace at times
Leamy: 5. Cost us dearly in first half with bad options, and an alarming foul up with Murphy. Came into it well enough in second half.
O'Callaghan:8. Changed the game up front when introduced. Took try well.
Trimble: 6. Good positioning for try, otherwise anonymous
Simon Best:7. Under the circumstances, this guy did quite well for a puddin'
Aberdonian Stu
11/02/2006, 6:09 PM
Eh how did Murphy merit a 6? A 1 at best!
joeSoap
11/02/2006, 6:15 PM
Well, he was the lading ball carrier in the game for both sides, and was one of the few who gave it a go. And he dropped no balls. D'Arcy made far more errors than him actually.
Check the stats (http://www.planetrugby.com/News/story_48959.shtml)
Murphy a 6? Did you not see the intercept -the single worst error of the game? He should have taaken control of the situation with Leamy, he was coming on to it and should have kicked it into tough. You then give Leamy a 5 despite giving the centres passes for poor first halves, make up your mind.
Horgan a headless chicken? Thats a good one alright, what exactly did he do wrong in your eyes? H elooked like he was capable of making a break and was always looking to offload in the tackle. His chasing of the kick offs was immense.
I'm usually quick to criticise Horgan but thought he one of the first to start the comeback by at least taking responsibility & running the ball.
Murphy was shocking - he dropped a simple pass to miss a try & gave up 7 points with cowards pass. Rarely took responsibility & looked like didn't want to get hurt by the french tacklers.
O'Kelly, Murphy, Corrigan & Bowe cannot be picked for the next game.
I also thought O'Gara was unlucky with chargedown as team was in disarray & he was trying to put some order in. However he is very poor at protecting the ball when tackled.
Team was clearly playing to orders in the first half refusing to take the french forwards on. Most disorganised 40 minutes i've seen from an irish team. Time for a change.
Superhoops
11/02/2006, 8:38 PM
Murphy: 6. Some good breaks, tackled ok
Horgan: 3. Headless Chicken]
Not sure what game you were watching!
Murphy was dire. Ran well enough, but handling and passing were attrocious.
Horgan was the steadiest of the Irish back five.
Aberdonian Stu
11/02/2006, 11:23 PM
Just because he made the most carries doesn't mean he didn't botch them!
As for Bowe, well I won't he'll never be ready for this level but he certainly isn't ready yet, have to look at bringing in Hickie from the cold, even on to the bench. He's played well since he's come back from injury.
CollegeTillIDie
12/02/2006, 11:08 AM
Two points come to mind and they are players ability to make correct decisions at crucial times. I was only listening to the game ( The Tube went in the TV) but at 5-0 Ireland were awarded a penalty. And some loolah ( possibly ROG himself) opted not to kick for goal. A penalty goal then and it would have been 5-3 . A two point deficit would have been good for morale and had another one not been missed it would have been 31-9 at half-time instead of 31-3, and it would have made the comeback a bit easier later on.
Shortly after this monumentally wrong decision France added their first 7 pointer to go 12-0 ahead. And after that it was mostly downhill until at 43-3 the lads started to play against a comatose French side, who they punished almost as much as was possible.
at 5-0 Ireland were awarded a penalty. And some loolah ( possibly ROG himself) opted not to kick for goal.
Captains decision.
EOS likes to look on the positive side but he is suffering from delusion.
finlma
13/02/2006, 8:31 AM
My ratings:
Murphy: 6. Some good breaks, tackled ok
Horgan: 3. Headless Chicken
O'Gara:7. Cost us 2 tries, but very instrumental in comeback. Took try well
Leamy: 5. Cost us dearly in first half with bad options, and an alarming foul up with Murphy. Came into it well enough in second half.
I'd normally agree with you Joe Soap but you're way off the mark with these. Murphy was shockingly bad and made very few breaks. Was at fault for at least 14 points (we lost the game by less). I'd blame him for the Leamy mix up too - it was Leamy's to go for and he should have been covering back. Either Murphy goes to the wing or he should be dropeed for Dempsey (I never thought I'd say that)
Apart from D'Arcy Horgan was our best back. He made some good runs, didn't miss a single tackle and generally got in the faces of the French - one of the few to come out of the first half with a scrap of credit.
O'Gara was rubbish. Also responsible for giving away 14 points. His distribution was poor and although he improved towards the end it was way too late.
Leamy was the best forward apart from POC.
We had a very kickable penalty when we were 5-0 down but Leamy charged at the line. If POC was the captain (a forward should always be captain) then we would have kicked that and the game could have been a lot different.
Overall a disgraceful performance which only had a gloss on it because the French stopped trying.
EOS, please go.
Overall a disgraceful performance which only had a gloss on it because the French stopped trying.
EOS, please go.
I agree. Tactic to avoid confrontation with the french forwards meant backs were aleways under pressure in the first half - e.g. resulted directly in O'Gara chargedown.
Kingdom
13/02/2006, 1:17 PM
Two points come to mind and they are players ability to make correct decisions at crucial times. I was only listening to the game ( The Tube went in the TV) but at 5-0 Ireland were awarded a penalty. And some loolah ( possibly ROG himself) opted not to kick for goal. A penalty goal then and it would have been 5-3 . A two point deficit would have been good for morale and had another one not been missed it would have been 31-9 at half-time instead of 31-3, and it would have made the comeback a bit easier later on.
Shortly after this monumentally wrong decision France added their first 7 pointer to go 12-0 ahead. And after that it was mostly downhill until at 43-3 the lads started to play against a comatose French side, who they punished almost as much as was possible.
I'm not in the know as such, but I watch a fair bit of the rugger, so I'm gonna have my say, dammit!:D
I think you're assessment of the situation is unfair. They decided not to take the kick at goal, and danced arounf the French line for a few minutes, were unlucky not to get the try, turned the ball over and with (moreorless) the next kick of the game France got their 2nd try and converted it. Unlucky.
ColinR
13/02/2006, 1:42 PM
I'm not in the know as such, but I watch a fair bit of the rugger, so I'm gonna have my say, dammit!:D
I think you're assessment of the situation is unfair. They decided not to take the kick at goal, and danced arounf the French line for a few minutes, were unlucky not to get the try, turned the ball over and with (moreorless) the next kick of the game France got their 2nd try and converted it. Unlucky.
hindsight is always great in these situations. last week the scots turned down a very similar easy three points at nil-nil. they didn't turn the penalty into a try either, however the next five minutes or so were spent in the french 22, and the try was evenually scored, and the tone for that match had been set. nobody here claimed that the decision not to opt for the points was wrong!
Take your points when in Paris. Pretty simple stuff really, 5-3 is better than 5-0. It was just indicitave of the tripe that was to follow for the next 40 minutes.
Poor individual decision making rather than tatics in my view. Second half shows that imo. I mean, you can say France took the foot off the pedal, but they hardly looked great when they were totting up 41 points imo.
Murphy was the worst player on the pitch, and how anyone could give him a 6 is beyond me. His 2 gifts of try's and then the awful handling that cost us a try too and the game was ours. Dempsey by far the best option.
If the IRFU want to give me a contract, I'll come out of retirement to sort out the front row - even at this stage reckon I'd be a better scrumager. Don't want to be too harsh, as the problem with Corrigan and Hayes (or O'Sullivan on this point) is there's no one coming through to replace them.
CollegeTillIDie
16/02/2006, 8:40 AM
Take your points when in Paris. Pretty simple stuff really, 5-3 is better than 5-0. It was just indicitave of the tripe that was to follow for the next 40 minutes.
Agreed. I am no expert on rugby I readily admit. But in all my 30 plus years of watching it on TV the conventional wisdom on penalties has been. Early on kick for goal and take your 3 points... near the end if you need more than 3 points at the time then run it and try for 7!
Wiseguy
16/02/2006, 10:14 AM
The most annoying thing about it all was the fact that France done sweet fcuk all and were out of site at half time.It was the worst 1st half performance by an Irish side in a long long time.In the second half they played some good rugby but you have to put that in to context.The game was over and this French side is no where near as good as people make out.The fact the we rallied in the second half took the focus away from the real problem.Eddie 'O Sullivan's time is up.It's clear that he is not getting the best from his player's and when that happens it's time for a change.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.