The day Irish football was changed forever

[NeilMcD]

http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=431900&postcount=2

[OwlsFan]

Best memory: Scotland beating Bulgaria. We had arrived on the world footballing stage at last. I still remember that shot on TV of the Aer Lingus plane carrying the team landing in Germany. Still brings a lump to my throat.

[finlma]

Brain Clough would have been a better man for the job.

Fair enough Jack gave us some great memories but our team at Euro 88 was good enough to win the competition. We had some great midfielders but there was no need for them when we constantly hoofed the ball over them.
For every great memory there were some terrible performances - Egypt 90, Norway, Mexico 94

[OwlsFan]

Good enough to win the competition :rolleyes: :eek: Yeh, Chris Morris and Mick McCarthy compare favourably with Van Basten and Gullit. We were of course much stronger than the West Germans (at home), the Italians and Spaniards, also in that tournament :rolleyes:

Egypt was a poor performance ok. Remind me how Holland did against them? Oh yeh, it was 1-1. Obviously Holland played them off the park while England massacred them 1-0.

Mexico was a disaster playing in that heat. As one who was at that game I can confirm Jack's opinion about the heat - I have never seen so many roasted Paddy thighs coming out of a game. We still managed to score one of the best Irish goals ever in that game.

Norway - we needed a draw and got one.

I enjoyed nearly every minute of the Jack era. Two World Cups and and our one and only European Championship having never been at any Final before. Some people are never happy.

[Closed Account 2]

It was a great time, we played with a spirit and togetherness we've not seen since. People love to slate us for "playing the long ball" but our goals in USA 94 (including the McGrath disallowed one) were all superbly taken and finished off nice moved. In each tournament (88, 90, 94) we were very unlucky to go out - only wish I'd been old enough to go to some of those matches on the continent or out in the states.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Republic of Ireland failed to qualify for Euro 92 for one reason. The dropping of two away points against Poland. For those who have forgotten or weren't born Ireland were 3-1 up and Dave Bloody O'Leary gave the ball away not once but twice, outcome the Poles equalised and we didn't travel to Denmark. Euro 92 was a discredited competition anyway as the best team in Europe were not allowed play and a team who failed to qualify won it.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Good enough to win the competition :rolleyes: :eek: Yeh, Chris Morris and Mick McCarthy compare favourably with Van Basten and Gullit. We were of course much stronger than the West Germans (at home), the Italians and Spaniards, also in that tournament :rolleyes:

I was at Euro 88 and saw the two semi-finals and final over there too.
The Germans were very average. By the way they were livid about Kieft's goal against us. The TV highlights coverage( when we got back from the game) kept highlighting him being offside. Analyst Udo Lattek more or less said " The Irish were robbed"!

As has been said before we probably deserved to win one draw one and lose one. The results just did not tally with the perfomances. The game we deserved to win was against the USSR ( 1-1 draw) the game we deserved to draw was against the Dutch (0-1 loss) and the game we deserved to lose was against England( 1-0 win) in fairness on any other day they would have won 2-1 or 3-1 with the number of chances they created. Not that I am complaining about June 12 1988 it was one of the best experiences of my life !

[Emmet]

Brain Clough would have been a better man for the job.

Fair enough Jack gave us some great memories but our team at Euro 88 was good enough to win the competition. We had some great midfielders but there was no need for them when we constantly hoofed the ball over them.
For every great memory there were some terrible performances - Egypt 90, Norway, Mexico 94

Brian Clough ??? No way - Jack Charlton was exactly what Irish football needed at the time. We had some very very talented players but lacked the belief that we could qualify for these tournaments and beat the likes of England and Italy. He changed that. It really does annoy me when I see these blinkered revisionist posts. It is because of what he achieved that we now expect to qualify for every major tournament. He raised the profile of football / soccer in Ireland enormously. I'm sorry - you can't put a price on that.

[Forever Dreamin]

Best memory - we started filling Lansdowne and no longer slagged for going to Irish soccer internationals

Worst memory - having to buy tickets on the black market for a couple of games when only a few years earlier less than 15,000 often at home games!

Seriously it was great because it gave the team belief so that even now failure to qualify is a major diasppointment not an expectation

[Hither green]

Brian Clough ??? No way - Jack Charlton was exactly what Irish football needed at the time. We had some very very talented players but lacked the belief that we could qualify for these tournaments and beat the likes of England and Italy. He changed that. It really does annoy me when I see these blinkered revisionist posts. It is because of what he achieved that we now expect to qualify for every major tournament. He raised the profile of football / soccer in Ireland enormously. I'm sorry - you can't put a price on that.

I agree with that. Whatever complaints there may be about his tactics they got us to tournaments and laid foundations for us to build on - unlike previous purer tactics that didn't get us anywhere. I'm always amused by those who are now anti-Charlton (because of "the craic" and his tactics) but were pro-Keane (because we need to be professional, play proper football and win tournaments). The two aren't mutually exclusive, in fact we were probably at our most ruthless under Charlton in our selection of players and use of tactics.

[finlma]

Its my opinion that most managers would have got us to those tournaments as we had the players. I think a good footballing manager would have got us more success in the tournaments. Eoin Hand was robbed by a disgraceful reffing decision and he should have been the man to take us to our first major tournament.

I'm not saying the memories weren't great but I think they could be a lot better had someone else been in charge. Sure we'll never know.

[paul_oshea]

ya agree wholeheartedly with the last few posts, i never really agree with filmna as he is a moaner and likes to complain.

what have we done before/since absoloutely nothing. bar one world cup.

unfortunately i was at a very young age and have no memories of ireland beating england in euro88, though i remember my father and family who were more into gaa being very excited and because of this i didnt get to experience what some of you guys have, so give me the jack era any day, especially now and i would jump at the chance.

we never had the experience of playing in major tournaments before so no matter what anyone says that does play a huge role, even if you have 4 or 5 world class players, which i dont beleive we ever had at any one time....

[NY Hoop]

I agree with that. Whatever complaints there may be about his tactics they got us to tournaments and laid foundations for us to build on - unlike previous purer tactics that didn't get us anywhere. I'm always amused by those who are now anti-Charlton (because of "the craic" and his tactics) but were pro-Keane (because we need to be professional, play proper football and win tournaments). The two aren't mutually exclusive, in fact we were probably at our most ruthless under Charlton in our selection of players and use of tactics.

100% agree with you and emmet.

The very people celebrating at the time are now complaining.:rolleyes: Only in Ireland where revisionism is rife. One thing for sure is traitor would not have acted up if Charlton was in charge.

KOH

[Metrostars]

Completely agree with POS. I really don't understand people who critize Charlton and the Charlton era. Without Charlton there would not have been any Euro 88, Italia 90 or USA 94. We had better players in their prime before Charlton came on the scene but through poor tactics, lack of belief, and some bad luck, no manager before him ever got it done.

Charlton knew he had some great players but he had to instill his "put 'em under pressure" tactics and squeeze out tight victories. It wasnt pretty but it worked. I would rather play ugly soccer and qualify than try to play pretty total football and lose a couple and end up not qualifying. There is very little margin or error when it comes to qualifying as we all know. A point or two lost along the way makes all the difference. His tactics greatly reduced the chance of dropping points.

I remember one interview he had right after qualifying game in Luxemberg where we won 1-0 or a similar scoreline and George Hamilton kept going on and on "surely you must have expected to score more goals". Jack replied to the effect "I don't care how many goals we scored, we came to win and we won".

It was all simple stuff in the end. Where others failed before him, Jack succeeded.

[Hither green]

Its my opinion that most managers would have got us to those tournaments as we had the players. I think a good footballing manager would have got us more success in the tournaments. Eoin Hand was robbed by a disgraceful reffing decision and he should have been the man to take us to our first major tournament.

I'm not saying the memories weren't great but I think they could be a lot better had someone else been in charge. Sure we'll never know.

We’ll never know but I doubt it and agree with PO, we did nothing before and little since. Unfortunately bad luck or bad referring won’t add our name to tournaments pre-88. How many of the good players did Charlton bring in? We may have had good players already but lacked depth, Charlton’s tactics made up for deficiencies in certain parts of the pitch IMO.

High point: 1990 or possibly the night down the pub when we qualified for 94.

Low point: Keane walking out of ’02 or those plays offs against Turkey (and having to listen to the away-leg on rte with cr@p reception because of a dispute over tv rights).

[Hither green]

Charlton knew he had some great players but he had to instill his "put 'em under pressure" tactics and squeeze out tight victories. It wasnt pretty but it worked. I would rather play ugly soccer and qualify than try to play pretty total football and lose a couple and end up not qualifying. There is very little margin or error when it comes to qualifying as we all know. A point or two lost along the way makes all the difference. His tactics greatly reduced the chance of dropping points.

And in fairness to him he always said that those tactics were a short-term measure to bring success as quickly as possible. By the end of his time we were playing some quite nice football.

[Stuttgart88]

And in fairness to him he always said that those tactics were a short-term measure to bring success as quickly as possible. By the end of his time we were playing some quite nice football.Which is something even Dunphy conceded.

[NeilMcD]

I am not too sure some of our football in Euro 88 was top class especially against the Russians. Our finest ever performance under Charlton in my view.

[Stuttgart88]

At the time the Russian performance was our best performance ever I reckon, certainly in my time as a fan anyway. Really top drawer stuff. I thought Wembley in '91 was a great performance too, certainly that period before we equalised.

[green army]

i thought the game game against portugal at home in 95? (qualifying for euro 96) was also very good. the players were pushing on a bit but still managed to keep the portugeese quiet and play some nice football.

[Hither green]

My memory's not great, but in the game against england that was abandoned, I seem to remember we were playing really really well. Although for obvious reasons I've not seen it since so...

[OwlsFan]

Its my opinion that most managers would have got us to those tournaments as we had the players. I think a good footballing manager would have got us more success in the tournaments. Eoin Hand was robbed by a disgraceful reffing decision and he should have been the man to take us to our first major tournament.

I'm not saying the memories weren't great but I think they could be a lot better had someone else been in charge. Sure we'll never know.

You logic is faulty. Charlton took over a team which had finished 2nd bottom, in its group under Eoin Hand (at least we beat the Swiss 3-0 in that group):

...Team .................Pts Pld W D L GF GA GD
1 Denmark............. 11. 8.. 5. 1. 2. 17 6 .11
2 USSR................. 10 .8.. 4 .2. 2. 13 .8. 5
3 Switzerland...........8. 8. 2. 4 .2. 5 ..10 -5
4 Republic of Ireland ..6. 8 .2. 2 .4. 5..10 -5
5 Norway................. 5. 8.1. 3. 4. .4. 10 -6

True Eoin had been unlucky in previous campaigns (I was in Belgium for the 1-0 defeat in the last couple of minutes) but we were going no where fast at the end of his reign. Charlton changed all that. Previous Irish teams had some great players but Charlton was the first to instil organisation, a system and a belief. Without him I fear we'd still be all dreaming of the day we'd be in a major championship. Houghton and Aldridge were playing for Oxford when Charlton brought them into the Irish set up and made their careers. We also had a lot of average players in the team. It wasn't a team of superstars but they grew into the roll and became those players in our minds because we qualified and achieved what we did.

I shall fight revisionism all the way.

[Emmet]

At the time the Russian performance was our best performance ever I reckon, certainly in my time as a fan anyway. Really top drawer stuff. I thought Wembley in '91 was a great performance too, certainly that period before we equalised.

If I was going to pick out specific matches I'd go for those as well. I was watching a video of Euro '88 a few months ago and the football we played against the Russians was breathtaking - it really was. And this was a Russian team who were many people's pre-tournament favourites as well. Crisp passing, intelligent movement - like you say, top drawer stuff. Wembley in 1991 is up there too because we gave the English a real lesson that night - both on the pitch and off it. I tried to go to that game with my Dad but tickets were like gold dust. Even on the TV though all you could hear was one long stream of Irish songs - Molly Malone, We're on the one road and loads more ... at least three-quarters of Wembley was green that night! England scored a deflected goal after about 10 minutes and from the point onwards it was one-way traffic. Quinn's goal was class - the only downer was the score!!

[paul_oshea]

is there anywhere you can get these games on dvd or vhs or anything like that? again i remember the scores and goals but thats all i can remember from these.

owlsfan its good to have staticians and realists like yourself and stuts on this forum. i was expecting more of the anti-charlton brigade to get engaged in this thread, but as the man says you cant argue with FACTS

[Noelys Guitar]

Charlton changed the attitude of the team more than anything else. The most dispiriting match I have ever attended was the home 4-1 defeat to Denmark, Hands last game if I'm not mistaken. Less than 5,000 Irish fans attended (outnumbered by the Danes!). It was truely shocking stuff. A complete change was needed and Charlton delivered that. The "lucky" manager stuff is just rivisionist nonsense. By 1990 The team, fans and journos believed we could beat anyone, anywhere. And we usually did.

[Emmet]

is there anywhere you can get these games on dvd or vhs or anything like that?

Ebay would be your best bet - when they do surface on there they never go for much

[Hither green]

Ebay would be your best bet - when they do surface on there they never go for much

I was about to ask about that. Is that an official Irish Euro '88 vid, as I've never come across it and would be quite interested. What's it called?

[OwlsFan]

I have the Euro 88 video at home. Must check it out to see what it's called. Possibly on Betamax:eek:

[Hither green]

I have the Euro 88 video at home. Must check it out to see what it's called. Possibly on Betamax:eek:

So what do you do with that then, spin it really fast on a pencil near a light? :)

[PaulB]

I was about to ask about that. Is that an official Irish Euro '88 vid, as I've never come across it and would be quite interested. What's it called?

I have it at home ( VHS), for the life of me can't remember the name of it (the road to germany). Gives a couple of highlights of the qualifiers, then a good 20 minutes of each game. Good stuff..

[Emmet]

The one I have is called 'Euro 88' - its an official RTE video and well worth getting if you see it

[finlma]

To make up for all my moaning:

Euro 88
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...and+at+Euro+88

Italia '90
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...d+at+Italia+90

USA '94
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...land+at+USA+94

[gypsydownunder]

October 1974.
Giles first big game as player manager. Liam made his debut. And Given scored 3 as we beat USSR 3-0. And after that I was hooked.

Euro 88 was magic. There was a great raw innocence with the fans and the team - no cheap flights in those days - it was a boat to Le Harve, train to Paris and then on to Stuttgart. And nobody really expected us to win.

Italia 90 was good, especially Dave's penalty.

Wembley 91 was really good. And if only Ray had buried that sitter in the 2nd half, then Poland wouldn't have mattered.

USA 94 was pretty bad. Yeah ok, Mexico was heat effected. But we were ****e against Norway [only worse game was Egypt].

Anfield 95 was a terrible end to Charlton's career. It was a really bad performance and probably the biggest ever Ireland "away" crowd. I travelled from Melbourne, had a great time, but the game was sh1te.

[OwlsFan]

USA 94 was pretty bad. Yeah ok, Mexico was heat effected. But we were ****e against Norway [only worse game was Egypt].

Surely Ireland 1 Italy 0 is worth a slight mention?

Norway was a bad game but all we needed was a draw. That was good enough for me and outside the Stadium a concert by Mary Black who sang "My heart is low, as only a Norwegian heart can be :D ". Always think of that day when I hear the real version of the song and it brought home to me how the Norwegians must be feeling. We complained about the performance but were heading on to Orlando for the next round. They were on the next plane back to the fiords.