Spurs/Arsenal Champions League Spot?

[NeilMcD]

Seen as there was a similar thread last year when the 2 Merseyside rivals were battling it out for 4th spot in the EPL I thought I would start a similar one this year. Who do people think will get the last Champions League spot.

If we say that Chelsea have the League won and that Man Utd and Liverpool will battle it out for 2nd and 3rd Spot I think its fair to say that Spurs and Arsenal will battle it out for the 4th spot. I think Bolton may have a say in it but I think ultimately they will finished 6th.


I think its going to be neck and neck between Spurs and Arsenal for the 4th spot. They play each othter near the end of the season and Spurs have Man Utd and Bolton around that time too. Arsenal still have to play Liverpool twice but have Played Chelsea twice already. I think Spurs may just nick it but I think they will need Arsenals away form to be continue to be very patch if they have any hope. If Arsenal get that in order I think their experience of a club been up that far could tell.

[OwlsFan]

The few times I've seen Spurs on the TV they've looked very ordinary. They seem to be playing Keane off the front and as a play maker. Arsenal seem to be a club in decline but with a good manager like Wenger (his blindspot about Bergkamp apart), I think they'll probably beat Spurs to that spot.

[NeilMcD]

You obviously have not seen Spurs too much then.

Yesterday they totally outclassed Charlton at home and the game could have been 4 or 5 to spurs. They were really good and outplayed Man Utd at Old Trafford earlier in the season. They played well at Anfield and were defensively strong but were beaten but a wonder goal by Harry Kewell. Their home form has been excellent this season and the only team to beat them at home has been Chelsea. 2 of their away defeats have been very very unlucky. Against Bolton they totally outplayed Botlon but were robbed by dodgy Assistant referee decisions on offside. Against Fulham Dawson should never have been sent off. Those 2 away defeats should have been draws really. At no time in the season have they had a bad run form. They have been consistant through the season getting about 6 points from every 9. I think it will be a close run thing for 4th spot

But at the moment spurs have 2 players for every position in the squad and with the exception of Rasiak and the keeper the replacments are not bad


Robinson Cerny
Staltieri Kelly
King Gardener
Dawson Naybet/Huddlestone
Lee Gardener/Kelly

Carrick Huddlestone
Davids Reid
Jenas Murphy
Tanio Lennon


Keane Defoe
Mido Rasiak.

[OwlsFan]

You obviously have not seen Spurs too much then.

Twice. Leicester in the Cup which they lost and another game on Sky very recently but I am afraid I can't remember who that was against but I wasn't impressed.

Didn't see the Charlton game but it's no great shakes to beat them - even Wednesday scored 2 against them in the Cup. Obviously I'd prefer Spurs to do well with no Irish playing for Arsenal but I just don't see them finishing ahead of their London rivals.

[drinkfeckarse]

So you're a Spurs fan then Neil ;) :D

[Karlos]

Neill, I had previously labelled you a closet Manc, but you are really worrying me with your knowledge of our poor cousins from up the Seven Sisters Road.....!!! :eek: :)

I think in some ways Spurs consistancy this year highlights how far behind Arsenal they have been for so long now. Despite their best season in ten years and Arsenal's worst season in ten years, there's still only 4 points and a game in hand in the difference. Spurs have scored less and conceeded more goals than a poor Arsenal team (in comparrison to previous seasons) and i still believe (admitedly biased!) that man for man the Arsenal squad has more talent than the Spurs Squad with King & Robinson probably the only two players who could improve on what a fully fit Arsenal currently have.

I'm certainly not using injuries as an excuse but I 'd like to see how the current Spurs side would cope with 8 defenders missing at the same time during a poor run of form. I think slowly Arsenal are getting their house in order despite some recent defeats. Diaby has been astounding in his three games thus far and the introduction of Adebayor against Birmingham allowed Arsenal to play a different style of game when needed and free'd up Henry from playing the furtherest man forward role. Both goals Arsenal scored at the weekend highlighted these two marked changes more than anything particulary the first with Henry now able to occupy his favoured wide left position, feeding a galloping Diaby who supplied a cross for a striker that was in the box (shock horror!) and put it in with his head (shock horror again!) - brutal goal for the neutral but an absolute pleasure for any gooner to witness becuase of what it symbolised.

I would agree that Spurs were unlucky with some of the games they have lost but I feel Arsenal can have the same feeling particualry when performances didn't garnish the results they deserved notably away at Chelsea, away at Newcastle, the second half away at Spurs, the Robin Van Persie offside descision at home to Chelsea in a crucial period of the game etc etc.....there's a least 5 points there that they deserved but didn't get and that's life.

I know it sounds like stating the bleeding obvious but the next month will tell how this is going to pan out - Arsenal's run of games is particualry challenging with the added distraction of Champions League Football ( no worry for Spurs there! ). Mourniho & Fergie will be scrachin their heads in disbelief that we haven't bribed a home league game directly after the away game in Madrid. Asrenal's run of games are as follows

Bolton (H) - arch nemisis
Liverpool (A) - very tough game away
Madrid (A) - tough game
Blackburn (A) - always difficult
Fulham (A) - London Derby away from home
Madrid (H) - very tough game but at home
Liverpool (H) - very tough game but at home

Over the same time, Spurs have three less games and what look like relatively easier ones two. Having one game against world class opposition in the same time Arsenal have 4 games against world class opposition gives Spurs an edge in my opinion.

Sunderland (a) - stick on 3 pointer
Wigan (h) - difficult but at Home
Blackburn (h) - difficult but at home
Chelsea (a) - very tough

I'll stick my neck on the line and say that if Spurs don't have at least a 8 point lead coming out of this run of games then they will not finish above Arsenal as April looks a far more difficult month for Spurs (inc. United & Liverpool in the same week as well as an away game at Highbury).

All in all it should be a frantic finish towards the end and the game at Highbury on April 21st should be a cracker.

The only other thing I forgot to mention was I for one certainly haven't forgotton about Bolton or Wigan and this duel between Arsenal & Spurs could really benefit one of those teams. :)

[NeilMcD]

I agree Karlos, SPurs have been a disgrace of a club in the last 17 years to be honest. The last good team they had was the 1987 team with Pleat as the manager. Clive Allen that season was immense and they were very unlucky not to win anything that year.

Spurs have turned it around regarding consistancy. I agree with you that this is spurs best season and Arsenals worst and Arsenal are still only 4 pts behind with a game in hand however. Considering that Jol took over last season mid way through the season I think he is doing a very good job and I am impressed how they conduct themselves in the transfer market. To get 7 million for Mendes Davies and Pamarot and to buy Murphy for 2.5 is good business and Aaron lennon for less than a million I think. King for Free and Robinson for 2 million I think.


I agree Spurs too need to be ahead after March as there run in Aprili is as tough as you can get. I think Spurs will be about 6 points ahead going into April and that may not be enough. However I do think that the Spurs Arsenal game is going to decide it, if there is a winner in that math.

I dont think that Wigan will stay up there for much longer but will finish about 9th in the end I think. Bolton will be strong but I think they will finish 6th. If I was a betting man I would go Arsenal for 4th and Spurs for 5th but you never know.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The problem is Tottenham fans are romantics. They like flowing football which the team has traditionally played. They sign similar types of players across generations regardless of who their managers have been. They also been too porous at the back for nigh on 40 years which is why they have not won a League title since 1961 and probably won't do anytime soon.
The Spurs philosophy would need to incorporate defensive steel and not giving the ball away so much if they are to achieve anything in the present climate. Jol may be able to do that in the medium term , and to his credit has done a good job this season but the earlier point is true. Spurs best season in 10 years mirrors Arsenal's worst and the gap is only 4 points I think.

[NeilMcD]

I think there is not doubt that spurs have been a disgrace of a club over the last 15 years. That is not even open to argument really. However Jol has added that solid back bone to the team this season and in some ways Arsenal are becoming lwhat spurs used to be which is lacking that fighting spirit etc. I think Viera going was a huge loss. Arsenal are not winning the games away from home that normally they would.


Spurs are now getting points when they would normally lose. Also I agree we have a Spurs side getting better and an Arsenal side getting worse and they are meeting in the middle at the moment. All in all in makes for the best end of season dual between the 2 clubs in a very very long time.

[OwlsFan]

You obviously have not seen Spurs too much then.

Saw them again against Sunderland and once again they failed to impress. At least two Irishmen scored in the game and once again Mick's team almost fell to a last minute sucker punch.

[pete]

Spurs are very negative away from home hoping to catch teams on the counter attack. If they'd just attacked Sunderland would have beaten by few goals (created match winning chances in injury time) instead of sitting back defending a lead. After trimming the squad they now look vunerable to injuries too.

[NeilMcD]

Spurs were very poor on Sunday but you get games like that during the season. Generally their form has been good all season. The odd game where they were not great. At home their only defeats were to Chelsea since Martin Jol took charge and one of them was with 10 men. I dont think their squad looks thin at all. As I have shown up above they have 2 players for every position at the moment. Huddlestone is going to be a top class player in my view.

[NeilMcD]

Spurs were poor on Sunday but having watched the game between Liverpool and Arsenal last night, I have confidence that Spurs can extend their lead over Arsenal over the coming weeks as the Arsenal team lacks confidence passion and organistion at the moment. I am not sure they will be able to deal with their hectic March. Last night was one of the worst performances under Wenger. Maybe Karlos you can let us know has there been such a bad performance under Wenger before. I still think it will be close between Spurs and Arsenal but I would be more confident than I was.

[Karlos]

Spurs were poor on Sunday but having watched the game between Liverpool and Arsenal last night, I have confidence that Spurs can extend their lead over Arsenal over the coming weeks as the Arsenal team lacks confidence passion and organistion at the moment. I am not sure they will be able to deal with their hectic March. Last night was one of the worst performances under Wenger. Maybe Karlos you can let us know has there been such a bad performance under Wenger before. I still think it will be close between Spurs and Arsenal but I would be more confident than I was.

I have to be honest and say I haven't actually seen the game yet, world time zones and valentines dinner conspiring against me. I have it recorded so might get a chance this evening. I did see the highlights on the sports round-up last night and Liverpool looked the dominant team. Jens Lehmann, not for the first time this year, looked in fanstastic form again - Arsenal Player of the Year in my eyes. Penalty looked harsh I thought as did the call on Adebyaor offside although I have only seen each incident the one time.

Going by some of my fellow gooners comments on their web sites, it was a truelly spineless shameful performance and only added to by the fact they were 4 minutes away from getting a decent result out of it. As I haven't seen the game It's difficult to comment but I thought I've seen enough away at Birmingham and against Bolton to show there's still something left in that team. As I said a few days back, the next 6 games will see really see how the Champions League Spot works out but at the moment we don't look deserving of the spot.

On the other hand, to spin the positive, it was loss away at Anfield and I think we've only won at Anfield a couple of times in many many years and those were in seasons where we won the league - '89, '91, '02 as far as I can remember. I think it's up to the players, there's enough quality in that team. The experienced lads need to get their act together and fast. :)

[Redtop]

unless arsenals midifield sorts itself out then i cant see them making the champions league..also i think that bolton have a decent chance of making it into it

[gustavo]

thought arsenal to a man were superb tonight especially henry , fabregas , reyes and eboue , would be still worried that real might still get them in highbury but they were woeful tonight especially in the middle and contrast between ronaldo and henry was startling.

[Karlos]

Henry doesn't do it in the big games.

[gustavo]

ah he was probably playing for a move to spain tonight:)

[Karlos]

ah he was probably playing for a move to spain tonight:)

LOL :D

tie is far from over but over the moon with the win - whatever happens in the next game, nobody can take this night away.

First English Club to win in Madrid against Real. Great stuff:D

[NeilMcD]

Great performance, Karlos, To a mad they were great and I would rather watch Arsenal in Europe then Liverpool any day. There was only one game that I was going to watch and I am glad I did as the hightlights from LIsbon suggested that was a borefest. I was actually going for Arsenal last night as they play great football when they are on form and Fabregas and Henry are great characters too. Also I think the longer Arsenal stay in Europe it could help spurs but maybe Arsenal will find some league confidence from this also. Anyway great night for the team with no English players against the team with 2.

[OwlsFan]

Henry doesn't do it in the big games.

Ireland 0 France 1 (don't mention Henry and big games :( )

[feo123]

arsenal will definately get 4th spot! spurs arnt consistent enough to get it! arsenal will come good towards the end and just make it! hope i'm wrong though

[NeilMcD]

Arsenals poor form away from hope is certainly not a good sign for them. however now the Spurs Blackburn game is a huge game for both sides.

[pete]

4th place now up for grabs from any of probably 5 teams.

[Karlos]

Great performance by Arsenal today. They could have scored double figures with the chances they created and were always in control. They need to keep this type of form up if they are going to finish in the top 4. Good news with the Bolton & West Ham results today too.:)

[dancinpants]

Spurs now 5 points clear of 5th spot...Bolton can cut it to a point or two if they win their 2 games in hand though.

[OwlsFan]

Fulham 0 Gloves 4

ANyone else notice that 9 out of the 11 Arsenal players wore gloves. What were Fulham at giving them all that room to play and what great football they can play when given the time and space! It's no wonder though that they can't compete in places like Bolton if they need gloves to play in London. I had read earlier in the day Chris Coleman saying Arsenal were a spent force - lots of egg on his chin there and on TV that night he said what a great team they are. Sorry Chris. Can't have it both ways.

Once again Spurs failed to impress live on TV but they seem to be able to grind out results. What a first goal by the one Keano.

[Karlos]

Fulham 0 Gloves 4

ANyone else notice that 9 out of the 11 Arsenal players wore gloves.

I'll even let them wear tights if it means they get results like that! :D


Once again Spurs failed to impress live on TV but they seem to be able to grind out results. What a first goal by the one Keano.

I agree completly. I'm slightly biased as I don't like Spurs but honestly thought Blackburn where the better team yesterday. :)

[Gaillimh Al]

Would love to see Spurs take the 4th spot.
2 of my best mates are Spurs fans and they've not had much joy in the last 10 years. Plus they're a good,entertaining side to watch and I'm sure Robbie Keane would benefit from some more European exposure.
Arsenal - New Stadium - NO Champions League - What A Pity

[NeilMcD]

Spurs were outplayed by Rovers on Sunday but they got the 3 points and that was the main thing. Performances at this stage of the season are not as imporant as results. To be fair when Arsenal are on form they are a joy to watch but not sure they are as good as Spurs at the moment at getting 3 points when not playing so well.

However Spurs did batter Villa this year and Spurs were robbed away to Bolton also this season.

Spurs seem to be on the TV every match these days.

Last few weeks has seen live games V
Man City Sky
Leceister BBC
Wigan Sky
Blackburn Sky
Liverpool Rte
Fulham Sky
Charlton Sky
Sunderland Sky


And coming up they have

Chelsea Sky Prem Plus
Birmingham Sky Prem Plus
West Brom Sky
Newcastle (not on English TV)
Man City Sky Prem Plus

[Karlos]

It's a real fantasy long shot but it would be gas laugh (for me anyway! :) ) if Spurs finished 4th and Arsenal won the Champions League. Under the new UEFA rules Spurs would have to enter the UEFA Cup regardless of finishing in a champions league spot!

It's a sign of how bad Arsenal's season has been for me to be thinking up permutations involving Spurs finishing ahead of Arsenal and this scenario will be the only one that's relatively acceptable to a lot of Arsenal fans.

Europe is obviously important financially but the league position should be the preferred route to it. It's just an interesting 'what if' fact.

Just thought I'd share it with yis :)

[NeilMcD]

I was just saying it to my mate the other day as we were watching the Blackburn game. what a night mare scenario for a Spurs fan. This season is very similar to last year regarding Everton V Spurs. The smaller rival ahead in the league as the bigger rival goes and ruins it by winning the Champions League. Howerver I must say Arsenal play much better football than Liverpool for me. I hope Arsenal go through tonight as I have a draw in an Accumulator but I hope they do not win it as that would put Spurs out of the Champions League.

[Clifford]

This one is hotting up nicely now, but not just for the 2 North London clubs. Bolton are right in there with a shout now, good greif imagine Fat Sam givin it loads in the CL?

Arse were special against Luckypool yesterday, Spurts very unlucky to lose to the Roubles on Sat.

Hotting up nicely with Wigan in 8th only 6 points off 4th.

[OwlsFan]

Just remember that this last Champions League spot is not all it's hyped up to be as Dave O'Leary pointed out last week. You still have to win a qualifier and you get get a team like Villa Real and if you lose that, morale can plummet like it did at Everton this season and it took them a while to recover.

Go for it, sure, but it isn't necessarily the Holy Grail of football. Bolton didn't set the UEFA Cup alight this season. DOn't see them having a huge impact in the CL if they get there.

[pete]

Teams like Everton who haven't been in Europe for some years don't have their own ranking points so usually are unseeded. Maybe Bolton would have their own ranking points? Spurs, West ham, Blackburn etc... certainly wouldn't.

[NeilMcD]

Another scraped win last night for Spurs. But they are not playing well at the moment but they are getting the 3 points ever time. Thats 3 wins on the trot too. Great finish by Robbie last night for the 1st goal. 5 point is the distance between Spurs and Arsenal with Arsenal having a game in hand. Pity the game at Fratton Park was not played at the weekend though as that is ia tough trip for the Gunners with Pompey in decent form. Still think spurs have a very tough April so its going to be tough.

[OwlsFan]

Amazing really. I have seen Spurs play 5 or 6 times live and they've been average on each occasion but they continue to grind out wins. Lovely goal by Robbie. He has the midas touch at the moment and back to doing his cartwheels again. This one should go right to the end as well. WOuld be nice to see Robbie and Kelly in the CL - no Irish interest at Arsenal.

[NeilMcD]

What I like is though that even though spurs are not playing great for 90 mins they are doing the basics right and continuing to play football. As Johnny Giles always says if its the right thing to do in the 1st minute its the right thing to do in the 90th minute.

[NeilMcD]

Well Spurs have never finished in the top 6 or bottom 6 so I think they are doing well this year considering. Also they have more points now than they finished with last season so that shows progression too.

Spurs have taken 4 points from Blackburn this season and beat them just recently in a great game. I think its going to be a tight run this between Arsenal and Spurs for the final spot Champions League spot and the game at Highbury is giong to be huge. I would take draw now.

[NeilMcD]

Spurs remaining games Tough run in and they need get at least 7 points from the next 3 games in my view.



A Sat 1st Apr Newcastle 15:00
H Sat 8th Apr Man City 12:45
A Sat 15th Apr Everton 15:00
H Mon 17th Apr Man Utd 12:45
A Sat 22nd Apr Arsenal 12:45
H Sun 30th Apr Bolton 16:00
A Sun 7th May West Ham 15:00

[NeilMcD]

April
1 Sat Barclays Premiership H Aston Villa 3pm

5 Wed Champions League A Juventus 7.45pm
9 Sun Barclays Premiership A Manchester United 4pm

15 Sat Barclays Premiership H West Bromwich Albion 3pm
17 Mon Barclays Premiership A Manchester City 3pm

(On 4 May, 7.45pm if we reach Champions League Semi-Finals)

19 Wed Champions League H Semi-Final 1st Leg 7.45pm

22 Sat Barclays Premiership H Tottenham Hotspur 12.45pm

25 Tue Champions League A Semi-Final 2nd Leg 7.45pm

25 Tue Barclays Premiership A Portsmouth 8pm

(On 12 April, 8pm if we reach Champions League Semi-Finals)


1 Mon Barclays Premiership A Sunderland 5.15pm

7 Sun Barclays Premiership H Wigan Athletic 3pm

[NeilMcD]

I just said they have progressed from last season which they have so not sure where you are disagreeing with me there. I never said spurs were world beaters. Just said they are progressing from their previous league form which is a fact. To compare them with Everton of last year is a bit unfair to both teams. I dont think Spurs are as resilient or as strong as Everton were last season but I think they are a better footballing team than Everton were. `

Spurs finaces are one of the best in the league and none of the players have been bought with Champions League as a requirement like Leeds did. Also you say that you are pleased for the irish lads but otherwise forget it. Forget what exactly.

Spurs record in Europe is 2 European triophies which is not bad.

[Stuttgart88]

I only saw 15 mins or so last night, but heard the last 20 on the radio. When I heard Spurs had equalised I was disappointed but I then hoped that at least it was Robbie, not Defoe, who scored.

It seems that they're struggling to win some of these games now so it's getting very interesting.

Neil, have you noticed how often Spurs have conceded the exact same goal they conceded last night? I think Robinson's a great shot stopper but I think he's poor on inswinging frees and I'm hoping this weakness will be exploited in the summer. I think the free for WBA's goal wasn't actually his to claim but others have been - Old Trafford, Fulham, Arsenal at WHL (which he fumbled), Anfield last year, and others.

[Kingdom]

Having looked at those fixtures I'd expect Spurs to have 12 points extra going to Upton Park on the last day. I can see Arsenal having 17points going into the last game at home to Wigan. That would leave it fairly tight going into the last day no?

[NeilMcD]

They may be struggling to win them but they are winning them. I agree with you about Robinson and I really hope he does it during the World Cup too.

[NeilMcD]

It would mean they were all square going to the last game if that was the case but football rarely works out just like that if that was teh case you shoudl go down to the bookies now. Spurs do not have an easy game between now and the end but I do hope that West Ham qualify for the Cup Final.

[pete]

Both Spurs & Arsenal have very good home form. Spurs are tight defensively away from home but seem to struggle to beat what deemed lesser teams. Arsenals away form if just terrible.

[Karlos]

The whole European Cup scenario must really be starting to get worrying for Spurs fans :D

I'm still hopeful that it won't be necessary anyways. :)

[NeilMcD]

It is reminding me of last season when I kept on thinking that Liverpool could not do it until they did . I fully expected Arsenal though to beat Madrid but not Juve as convincingly as they did last night. I still think Barca can do it though.

[drummerboy]

& their record in Europe is embarassing...on a par with the average SPL club!;)

Well if you call winning a cup-winners cup and UEFA Cup, not to mention beaten finalists in UEFA Cup, average, you are deluded.