Danish Newspaper Cartoons

[Roverstillidie]

With what has been said by Irans president, Israel will be well entitled to make a pre-emptive strike against nuclear facilites, just as they did in Iraq..

the iranian president saying 'if the europeans feel so guilty about the holocaust let them house the new jewish state and leave arabs out of it' entitles them to use military action on what is still a civilian facility? :eek:

and people wonder why muslems feel cornered.....

[pete]

But I don't think the initial publication in Denmark in Sept. 05 was intended to insult. However shortsighted we say it was now in hindsight, it was only because imams in that country went to the trouble of bringing them "home" to Muslim countries that people there knew about them. i think the cartoons were published in a general, Western-freedom-of-speech-way.

However I would definetley question the motivation of their republication in certain European countries in the last few days ...

Agree fully. At this stage the controversy is being used by sections of both sides to further their own causes.

[Condex]

the iranian president saying 'if the europeans feel so guilty about the holocaust let them house the new jewish state and leave arabs out of it' entitles them to use military action on what is still a civilian facility? :eek:

and people wonder why muslems feel cornered.....

Why should the Jews move, they have always lived in Palestine for thousands of years and Islam has only been around since the 6th century.

and as for borders most European country borders changed in times of war!!

[Roverstillidie]

Why should the Jews move, they have always lived in Palestine for thousands of years and Islam has only been around since the 6th century.

and as for borders most European country borders changed in times of war!!

talk about dragging it off topic.....

the state of israel is the issue he addressed, that was founded in 1947.

why should the palestenians be forceably moved by zionist terrorists to accomodate this UN designed state after thousands of years of peaceful coixestance with the jews to appease our guilt?

what has any of this got to do with these cartoons?

back on topic:
caught a guy on the news, representitive of the muslim groups in britain. he made an interesting point that he saw those cartoons as akin to the caricatures the nazi's used to insult and dehumanise the jews in their press in the 1930's and called for all images of mohammed to be banned in the british media.

discuss!

intereseting in this day and age of mass media and internet it is good old fashioned cartoon caricatures that still cause the most reaction

[Tired&Emotional]

....and ****s like you who swallow it....


I'm not going to engage debate with you with an attitude like that.
I may have brought Chroudray into this but if you are going to reply YOU should know history too!

Go fish!

[pete]

Moderator: Anymore personal attacks from anyone & posts will be deleted & thread closed.

[Roverstillidie]

I'm not going to engage debate with you with an attitude like that.
I may have brought Chroudray into this but if you are going to reply YOU should know history too!

Go fish!

apologies for personalising it, wont happen again, but that reply is not good enough, you misquoted him deliberatly.

why he was there isnt the point. what he said was and you were being mischiveous

[Tired&Emotional]

apologies for personalising it, wont happen again, but that reply is not good enough, you misquoted him deliberatly.

why he was there isnt the point. what he said was and you were being mischiveous

OK, accepted.

Where did I misquote him? I certainly wouldn't misquote deliberately - remember what side of the argument I am on here - would be a bit silly of me to do that given the stance i'm taking! I mentioned the TCD thing so people would know who I was talking about.

I did bring AC into it yes but by doing so i was trying to relate the type of people who are speaking on behalf of radical/extremist Muslims. What he said in the debate about Shannon being used and our relation ship with the US is true but, as you say, not relevent here. I agree that our gov. is in bed with the US on stop-overs but that is where I draw the line.

Saying that Ireland is a legit. target for Muslim terrorists is wrong. The guy is a spokesman for Omar Bakri! I was only highlighting the soundpiece for Muslim extremists.

I probably shouldn't post the link (new rules?) but I feel i need to to back up my case, mods, to show where this guy (AC) has decided to put his political ideals.

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/964

[Block G Raptor]

With what has been said by Irans president, Israel will be well entitled to make a pre-emptive strike against nuclear facilites, just as they did in Iraq..
Totally Agree morally Israel are entitled to feel agreived it's the possible domino effect that worries me most

[Hither green]

Why should the Jews move, they have always lived in Palestine for thousands of years

Yes, that's why they've nearly all got American accents, they've always been in Palestine but have just watched too much Fox News. Without prolonging this diversion, let's not forget that the Arabs turfed out of their homes 50 years ago to create the state are stilling living in make-shift shanty towns dotted around the middle east. And a sizeable number of them are Christian Arabs, also not given the vote by Israel.


Islam has only been around since the 6th century.

I'm sure there's been lots of migration into that area and some invasion, but the coming of Islam was largely the coming of a religion, not a people. The same peoples are there as were there long before Moses wandered into town, they've just converted to Islam from Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Arianism or whatever. Anyway back to the main debate.

[pete]

Moderator: I think this is all Off Topic. Hows about reviewing the thread title again.

[hamish]

Some of you might have heard of Ann Coulter - a right wing self publicising clown. Here's her "take" on it - far too many agree with her on this topic over in the US from the blogs I've been perusing. Needless to say she doesn't mention the lunatics who murder doctors at abortion clinics, fire-bomb same, Timothy McVeigh and the utterings of mad Pat Rovertson.:rolleyes:
Condex will probably love this.

As my regular readers know, I've long been skeptical of the "Religion of Peace" moniker for Muslims – for at least 3,000 reasons right off the top of my head. I think the evidence is going my way this week.
The culture editor of a newspaper in Denmark suspected writers and cartoonists were engaging in self-censorship when it came to the Religion of Peace. It was subtle things, like a Danish comedian's statement, paraphrased by the New York Times, "that he had no problem urinating on the Bible but that he would not dare do the same to the Quran."
So, after verifying that his life insurance premiums were paid up, the editor expressly requested cartoons of Muhammad from every cartoonist with a Danish cartoon syndicate. Out of 40 cartoonists, only 10 accepted the invitation, most of them submitting utterly neutral drawings with no political content whatsoever.
But three cartoons made political points. :rolleyes: (yeah, right -SH)
One showed Muhammad turning away suicide bombers from the gates of heaven, saying "Stop, stop – we ran out of virgins!" – which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. Another was a cartoon of Muhammad with horns, which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. The third showed Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb, which I believe was an expression of post-industrial ennui in a secular – oops, no, wait: It was more of a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence.
In order to express their displeasure with the idea that Muslims are violent, thousands of Muslims around the world engaged in rioting, arson, mob savagery, flag-burning, murder and mayhem, among other peaceful acts of nonviolence.
Muslims are the only people who make feminists seem laid-back.
The little darlings brandish placards with typical Religion of Peace slogans, such as: "Behead Those Who Insult Islam," "Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way" and "Butcher those who mock Islam." They warn Europe of their own impending 9-11 with signs that say: "Europe: Your 9/11 will come" – which is ironic, because they almost had me convinced the Jews were behind the 9-11 attack.
The rioting Muslims claim they are upset because Islam prohibits any depictions of Muhammad – though the text is ambiguous on beheadings, suicide bombings and flying planes into skyscrapers.
The belief that Islam forbids portrayals of Muhammad is recently acquired. Back when Muslims created things, rather than blowing them up, they made paintings, frescoes, miniatures and prints of Muhammad.
But apparently the Quran is like the Constitution: It's a "living document," capable of sprouting all-new provisions at will. Muslims ought to start claiming the Quran also prohibits indoor plumbing, to explain their lack of it.
Other interpretations of the Quran forbid images of humans or animals, which makes even a child's coloring book blasphemous. That's why the Taliban blew up those priceless Buddhist statues, bless their innocent, peace-loving little hearts.
Largely unnoticed in this spectacle is the blinding fact that one nation is missing from the long list of Muslim countries (by which I mean France and England) with hundreds of crazy Muslims experiencing bipolar rage over some cartoons: Iraq. Hey – maybe this democracy thing does work! The barbaric behavior of Europe's Muslims suggests that the European welfare state may not be attracting your top-notch Muslims.
Making the rash assumption for purposes of discussion that Islam is a religion and not a car-burning cult, even a real religion can't go bossing around other people like this.
Catholics aren't short on rules, but they couldn't care less if non-Catholics use birth control. Conservative Jews have no interest in forbidding other people from mixing meat and dairy. Protestants don't make a peep about other people eating food off one another's plates. (Just stay away from our plates – that's disgusting.)
But Muslims think they can issue decrees about what images can appear in newspaper cartoons. Who do they think they are, liberals?

Sorry, Adam, I had to cut and paste here 'cos it's part of a very long thread over in Newshounds website.

[Hither green]

Quite entertainingly written. Something of a generalisation though, using the actions of a few to condemn the lot - I know I didn't see 2 million protestors out on the streets of Britain.

[Tired&Emotional]

I think she makes one or two good funadamental points but she does herself no favours with her sarcastic tone.

[Condex]

I think she makes one or two good funadamental points but she does herself no favours with her sarcastic tone.

Yip, already read it on a blog somewhere.
Tomorrow we're supposed to have 100,000 of them out on the streets again, with a bit of luck they'll run into some football supporters :D

I've met a lot of people in the last few weeks who are getting a bit fed up with their antics...

[Hither green]

I've met a lot of people in the last few weeks who are getting a bit fed up with their antics...

I'm not in the least surprised, considering the way western newspapers have been trying to foster anti-Islamic feeling throughout Europe, and considering the way our governments have done their best to upset Muslim countries and communities through their foreign and domestic policies.

[jebus]

I'm not in the least surprised, considering the way western newspapers have been trying to foster anti-Islamic feeling throughout Europe, and considering the way our governments have done their best to upset Muslim countries and communities through their foreign and domestic policies.

Yeah its OUR newspapers and OUR governments fault that they're all a bunch of mindless savages (the rioting muslims, not the rest). Islamic countires would be upset if you said boo to them, end of story, you can't keep giving their governments and their people excuses for their racism towards the western world by saying its our fault

[Roverstillidie]

Yip, already read it on a blog somewhere.
Tomorrow we're supposed to have 100,000 of them out on the streets again, with a bit of luck they'll run into some football supporters :D


why? you want it to turn violent? :rolleyes:

use your head ffs

[jebus]

I think that’s outrageous. In areas where they were dominant things worked absolutely fine. And I’m not harking back to medieval times, in the 19th century when “we” the West (well Russia mostly) were really getting into anti-semitism the Jews fled into the Ottoman Empire for sanctuary and were welcomed. It’s only been with the advent of the nation state and the artificial creation of countries in the middle-east that things have gone pear-shaped - well that and 80 years of western meddling. That’s often what happens when you artificially create countries instead of letting them evolve, you end up with dictators, or unenlightened regimes based on local customs or extreme religious practice. Many of the regimes in Africa aren’t much better. So perhaps instead of vilifying "arab countries" we should vilify western countries for making them what they are today, instead of what they would have become had they been left to their own devises.

Yeah you're right there, look at the enlightened way female Muslims are treated, but I forgot thats our fault for being born in Europe. Apologies to all those female Muslims who because of me/us have been treated like garbage by their male counterparts up to this very day.

[Hither green]

Yeah you're right there, look at the enlightened way female Muslims are treated, but I forgot thats our fault for being born in Europe. Apologies to all those female Muslims who because of me/us have been treated like garbage by their male counterparts up to this very day.

At what point did I say that modern day Islamic countries should be considered enlightened? I was simply responding to a narrow-minded stereotype that the current state of the middle east was a) because of Islam or b) due to a inherent racial disposition. Similarly, I don’t disagree that the treatment of women in some countries is outrageous but you’ll find it’s not a problem in every Islamic country they do vary quite a bit, (just like Muslims look different from one another - although I doubt you’ll believe that). Poor treatment of women isn’t a religious thing, it’s connected to particular customs or traditions. Women have been treated badly in lots of part of the world (bits of southern Africa without any Islamic influence at all for example), are you blaming Islam or Muslims for that too? Isn’t there some racial purity website where you’d feel more at home?


they're all a bunch of mindless savages (the rioting muslims, not the rest).

(Nice save there).


...you can't keep giving their governments and their people excuses for their racism towards the western world by saying its our fault

How can you have racism towards the western world, as we're not a single race, or are you just lumping us together like that because it's then easier to differentiate "them" from "us"?

[Roverstillidie]

Yeah you're right there, look at the enlightened way female Muslims are treated, but I forgot thats our fault for being born in Europe. Apologies to all those female Muslims who because of me/us have been treated like garbage by their male counterparts up to this very day.

how long ago did we start paying women the same wage for the same work? allow them to work outside the home? mysoginy is not unique to any religion.

[Condex]

why? you want it to turn violent? :rolleyes:

use your head ffs

Don't see any other group out every other week demanding this and that, its like this they either they 'fit in or f*ck off'!!!

[ColinR]

its like this they either they 'fit in or f*ck off'!!!

would anybody be surprised if the bnp or kkk came out with this line :rolleyes:

[Hither green]

Don't see any other group out every other week demanding this and that, its like this they either they 'fit in or f*ck off'!!!

Yes because God forbid that the Irish should ever try to keep a separate identity in the other countries that we've moved to.

[Roverstillidie]

Don't see any other group out every other week demanding this and that, its like this they either they 'fit in or f*ck off'!!!

for a man who emigrated you are a disgrace.

if an englishman said that to you when you first landed in london what would you have said?

[Condex]

Yes because God forbid that the Irish should ever try to keep a separate identity in the other countries that we've moved to.

Been here 20 years and feel that I've integrated pretty well. I know many people with Irish ancestory who would describe themselves as English even though one of their parent were Irish.

[Roverstillidie]

Been here 20 years and feel that I've integrated pretty well. I know many people with Irish ancestory who would describe themselves as English even though one of their parent were Irish.

you are on an irish football website so you havent fully assimilated yourself ito your new host country.

do you consider yourself to be a racist? or is it just an anonomous internet persona?

[Condex]

for a man who emigrated you are a disgrace.

if an englishman said that to you when you first landed in london what would you have said?

If he'd said that to me I would have agreed with him....

Not much chance of you adopting a separate identity if you were living in an Islamic country....

[Hither green]

Not much chance of you adopting a separate identity if you were living in an Islamic country....

What's that a reference to, access to the internet?

[Closed Account 2]

I think that’s outrageous. In areas where they were dominant things worked absolutely fine...

This is a joke a right ? You really need to read a book about the history of Serbia, Bulgaria or pretty much anywhere in Eastern Europe if you think things were absolutely fine.

I mean things were just a ball for the East Timorese weren't they :rolleyes:

I can't believe how naive that statement is... havent you heard of the Armenian Genocide ? Do you really think Egyptian Copts have had an "absolutely fine" time ??

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[hamish]

Anyone see The Late Late Show segment tonight about this??

[Condex]

Originally Posted by Condex
Not much chance of you adopting a separate identity if you were living in an Islamic country....


What's that a reference to, access to the internet?

Its a reference to : you don't see many Christians out protesting on the streets in Islamic countries because they are treated like cr*p, no, they keep their heads down because if they didn't, it could cost them their lives.

While is western Europe they use our tolerance,to propogate their fascist religion...

a few years ago I spoke to Indian and he described Islam as the devils religion with which there could be no debate...

[Condex]

for a man who emigrated you are a disgrace.

if an englishman said that to you when you first landed in london what would you have said?

Immigrants not integrating has its consequences, causing fractured societies,
eg Northern Ireland, a very good program last night on Channel4...

************************************************** *******
Kenan Malik explores his belief that many of the multiculturalist social policies which sought to improve community relations have instead helped to foster inter-ethnic tension.
http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/T/30minutes/
************************************************** *******

[Hither green]

This is a joke a right ? You really need to read a book about the history of Serbia, Bulgaria or pretty much anywhere in Eastern Europe if you think things were absolutely fine.

I mean things were just a ball for the East Timorese weren't they

I can't believe how naive that statement is... havent you heard of the Armenian Genocide ? Do you really think Egyptian Copts have had an "absolutely fine" time ??

Except the original point wasn’t about atrocities being carried out in Islamic countries or even carried out in the name of Islam, that’s not under question. You don’t have to go as far as East Timor to prove that dreadful acts have been carried out in Islamic countries and in the name of Islam, just like dreadful acts have been carried out in Christian countries and in the name of Christ. Perhaps you need to re-read the string! The point was refuting the notion that it would inevitably have been terrible had the "history of the world turned out differently and made them the dominant race". Sure sh1t happens, it happens in Islamic countries, it happens in Christian countries, it happens in Jewish countries, it happens in entirely secular countries.

[Hither green]

Its a reference to : you don't see many Christians out protesting on the streets in Islamic countries because they are treated like cr*p, no, they keep their heads down because if they didn't, it could cost them their lives.

And that's obviously because of Islam, not because of the nature of those regimes. You don't see many people out protesting in China or Zimbabwe either, the latter being a Christian country and the former secular.


a few years ago I spoke to Indian and he described Islam as the devils religion with which there could be no debate...

And he wouldn't have been biased at all? But I mustn't be negative, I think it generous of you to speak with someone of a different religion at all.


to propogate their fascist religion...

I think that says it all really, and ends my involvement in this discussion, sorry did I say discussion I meant invective.

[hamish]

Interesting article in the Los Angeles Times - particularly the second last paragraph

Full story
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-momand9feb09,0,2686213.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

That paragraph
"Some Muslims may say that public opinion does not matter when it comes to Islam. Yet if one examines the life of the prophet Muhammad, one would conclude that he carefully considered public opinion. When he negotiated a treaty with Arabs who were at war with him, he did not insist that his title as "prophet" be placed in the document (this act horrified his companions, to the point where they thought it was sacrilege). Instead, he had his name written as simply Muhammad, the son of Abdulla. This placated his enemy and was essential to successfully concluding the treaty, which gave the Muslims an extended period of peace that allowed them to publicize Islam. In fact, the opportunity the treaty created may be responsible for Islam's existence"

It was written by a Muslim BTW.

[Condex]

Good article!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901434.html

[Tired&Emotional]

Anyone see The Late Late Show segment tonight about this??

Yep, I was with Ian O'Doherty & John Waters on this one. Both made very good points not least of which was the fact that this isn't a race issue by definition (for obvious reasons) but Muslims are trying to turn this into one. it is a issue with faith not race ...Roverstillidie take note!


a few points:t&e, some of this garbage is borderline racist.

[Roverstillidie]

Yep, I was with Ian O'Doherty & John Waters on this one. Both made very good points not least of which was the fact that this isn't a race issue by definition (for obvious reasons) but Muslims are trying to turn this into one. it is a issue with faith not race ...Roverstillidie take note!

no, its an issue about generalising all adherants to a faith as terrorists and using imagery designed specifically to offend to achieve this. that is racist. and then hiding behind free speech to do so. despite refusing to publish cartoons offensive to christians 3 months previously.

[anto1208]

i seen the late late show allright , pretty good stuff ian o D . is very good i normally think he is a bit of a "moan for the sake of moaning " kinda guy but he was spot on on everything he said .

i was really annoyed by the irish musilim women in the crowd .

[jebus]

Isn’t there some racial purity website where you’d feel more at home?

So you've resorted to trying to paint a person who disagrees with you in a racist light, how very New Labour of you.




(Nice save there).

Wasn't a save, just a belief




How can you have racism towards the western world, as we're not a single race, or are you just lumping us together like that because it's then easier to differentiate "them" from "us"?

Really cause I could have sworn that I've heard at least a hundred Muslim fanatics in the media in the past fiveish years talking endlessly about 'the West' and how 'the West' is corrupt, so I'm just quoting "them", and I believe it is you who is doing the differentiation between "us" and "them", since I haven't once talked about Muslims as a whole, just the rioting ones, who I still believe to be savages. I would also think this of any Christian who did similar in response to a negative depiction of Christ, and I still do think that of other mindless thugs, such as the IRA, ETA, UVF and the American government (:D ). Oh and nice use of the "", could've worked if we were having this argument in "1994". So don't try to be smart, it doesn't suit.

[Roverstillidie]

jebus, not one word of that makes sense. try re-articulating yourself sober.

[Block G Raptor]

i was really annoyed by the irish musilim women in the crowd .
Yep! they came across as weak minded easily led insecure women who had quite obviously married into Islam / been brain washed by their husbands !:mad:

[hamish]

Yep! they came across as weak minded easily led insecure women who had quite obviously married into Islam / been brain washed by their husbands !:mad:

Is that usual for Muslims to say "peace be upon him" after they say Mohammed??? It reminds me of auld wans in my past doing something similar when the pope, Jesus, God, John F. Kennedy:D etc names were mentioned. Talk about brainwashed BGR. Can't remember exactly what they intoned but it involved blessing themselves incessantly and having an awful fearful look on their faces. :D

[anto1208]

anyone listening to the last word last night after mary mc's trip to saudi had some irish musilim on it mat kept at him about womens rights ,the guy was trying to say we are allways going on about choice in this country but when a muslim woman chooses to wear a head scarf we cant accept it ....followed up by if a woman leaves the house with out a scarf she'll be arrested!!.... great choice there wear it or get arrested .

mat asked him where men and women equal he tried to get around it by saying they had different roles but mat kept pushing him untill he came out and said women are here to serve men ..........

might get an ould copy of the koran later :D :D

[jebus]

jebus, not one word of that makes sense. try re-articulating yourself sober.

considering I was addressing Hither Green I'm not too sure it was intended to make sense to you ;)

[John83]

Is that usual for Muslims to say "peace be upon him" after they say Mohammed??? It reminds me of auld wans in my past doing something similar when the pope, Jesus, God, John F. Kennedy:D etc names were mentioned. Talk about brainwashed BGR. Can't remember exactly what they intoned but it involved blessing themselves incessantly and having an awful fearful look on their faces. :D
Yes. You often see abbreviated in text as PBUH, sometimes in brackets. It seems odd, but frankly, what harm? I've heard many an ould one (my granny's age group really) use "God rest him" - when mentioning a dead person - every bit as reflexively.

[hamish]

Yes. You often see abbreviated in text as PBUH, sometimes in brackets. It seems odd, but frankly, what harm? I've heard many an ould one (my granny's age group really) use "God rest him" - when mentioning a dead person - every bit as reflexively.

What would I do without ya John83.:D
Yep - "reflexively" - perfect word for what I was referring to...;)

[CollegeTillIDie]

sir hamish and everyone else

This is my first posting on this topic. What people have missed in this whole issue is the nature of philosophical thought underpinning the three religions and how long these take to evolve into something mature in tolerant.
JUDAISM... According to their Calender 57hundred and something
CHRISTIANITY It is 2006 according the calendar we use.
ISLAM It is not even 1500 in their time frame.

Question what were the Jewish and Christians up to at 1500 in their respective time frames?

Having said that the reaction of the Islamic radicals is over the top akin to The Anti-Abortionists firebombing and killing doctors!

The Harryville Church boycott, and protest outside the school in Belfast are on a par with that as is The Seventh Day Observance societies opposition to sportsfields being used on Sundays. But at least nobody dies if you can't use a sportsfield

[Block G Raptor]

But at least nobody dies if you can't use a sportsfield

I dont know...try telling rovers fans they can't have tallaght !!:D :D :D