Indo Article

[OneRedArmy]

Amusing Bootroom column in today's Indo by Gerry McDermott.

I wonder did UCD give his kids a few scholarships as it is the most one sided piece of drivel I've seen in a long time.

And as for Licensing being "well established".......:rolleyes:

For somebody that writes regularly on the EL his knowledge seems to decrease the more he writes.

[Poor Student]

Premier League needs only four Dublin clubs

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Bootroom - Gerry McDermott

WITH no promotion and relegation the new Eircom League season is going to be one massive beauty contest as the 22 clubs put on their best smiles to impress the FAI judges.

Stringfellows may be the glamour gig for 2006 but from next year the biggest party in town will be the FAI Premier League with only the very best being invited to strut their stuff in this exclusive club.

It is not known yet what criteria the judges are going to use to determine who gets the sought after invites and whether there will be 10 or 12 places available at the party.

So, until the criteria is clarified there is going to be a fair bit of posing and a few last minute cosmetic jobs have already been scheduled.

Nobody denies that the League of Ireland badly needs a massive overhaul but one hopes that when the FAI get around to judging this particular contest that they don't merely judge a club by the number of existing admirers they have.

The main criteria for membership of the new Premier Division should be sporting criteria. If a club does the business on the pitch then it should be eligible to seek a Premier Division licence.

With FAI Club Licensing well established at this stage it provides an ideal system for assessing the rest of the criteria like infrastructure, finance and administration. In order to maximise the impact of the new Premier League, the FAI are keen to ensure that there is a national look to it. Having six clubs out of ten or 12 teams from Dublin would result in a distinctly unbalanced set-up.

Overload

Avoiding such a Dublin overload is taxing the minds of the FAI at present as they try to decide how best to proceed for next year.

The simplest way to solve the capital conundrum would be to limit the number of Dublin teams in the Premier Division to four and the best way to calculate who stays and who goes is to work out a co-efficient based on the league results of the 2004, 2005 and 2006 seasons.

Premier Division points would carry a weighting of 1.5 and the total number of points would be divided by the number of games played to produce the co-efficient.

Using this system, the rankings of the six Dublin teams going into the 2006 season are: Shelbourne 2.94, Bohemians 2.28, UCD 1.89, St Patrick's Athletic 1.60, Shamrock Rovers 1.41, Dublin City 1.34.

So, at the end of 2006 all the FAI have to do is calculate the three year co-efficient and then examine if the top four Dublin clubs fulfil the licensing requirements for the new Premier League. If they do, they are in and the other two Dublin clubs move to the First Division.

Some will argue that could mean UCD gaining a place in the Premier Division at the expense of Shamrock Rovers and the answer to that is "so what?"

A ceiling on the number of Dublin clubs in the Premier League would give them a chance to grow and possibly prosper and if the FAI does their job properly there should be plenty of marketing support available to help clubs grow their support base.

UCD are the only League of Ireland team in the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown area where there is a population of 200,000. If that were a provincial town there would be no question about their suitability to be members of the new-look Premier League.

Planning permission is currently being sought for the development of the Belfield Bowl to bring it into line with UEFA licensing criteria and with the UCD soccer club going to share it with the UCD rugby club, then surely Government demands are being satisfied given both play in the top flight.

Ground-Sharing

What's to stop Dublin City ground-sharing with Clontarf seeing that ground-sharing is going to be all the rage in the capital! It certainly wouldn't be any different to Shels and Bohs going to Dalymount or Rovers and St Pat's to Tallaght.

The FAI also has a duty to support the First Division and its clubs much better than in the past. The transformation of the lower league into a wilderness is completely down to neglect from those whose job it was to nurture it.

FAI Chief Executive John Delaney has already established his commitment to the League of Ireland by his actions over the past 12 months. Prize money rose by 300 per cent and television coverage rose from five live games to 29. Add in the opportunities for more prize money and television coverage from the Setanta Cup and it is a pretty impressive contribution from Delaney.

One doesn't doubt his ability to rejuvenate the Eircom League but hopefully when Delaney looks at the 22 clubs before him on the catwalk, he remembers that beauty is only skin deep and the FAI cannot afford to have bimbos in their new look Premier League.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1553613&issue_id=13623

[Poor Student]

Amusing Bootroom column in today's Indo by Gerry McDermott.

I wonder did UCD give his kids a few scholarships as it is the most one sided piece of drivel I've seen in a long time.

And as for Licensing being "well established".......:rolleyes:

For somebody that writes regularly on the EL his knowledge seems to decrease the more he writes.

How exactly is it one sided? I think his point on capping Dublin clubs is silly and he could be more critical of the restructuring. However he makes a decent enough point on being wise on setting criteria for a new league and setting them on sporting values. Does it offend you that he isn't calling for our head?


EDIT 2: this looks like I'm being an arsehole (nothing new probably) but when I posted this thread Poor Stident had asked for the text to posted, so I'm not quoting him and childishly changing his name to "some guy", the some guy I refer to is whoever wrote the article.

That's true. Sorry hoop. I decided to get off my lazy arse and do it myself.

[Roverstillidie]

its a crap article and thats not even because its an anti rovers piece

why pick 3 years? over 5 or 10 we would be well up there.

ucd in rovers out "so what?"? what a marvellously well constructed journalistic arguement. sure isnt dl/rathdowne traditionally our stomping ground?

the guy is 100% anti-hoop and the article is a cheap attempt to kick us while we are down.

[Poor Student]

Typical Rovers paranoia. He raised a decent point in a very crap way in my opinion. The co-efficient thing is a load of crap. I think he was basically trying to say don't let a well run but not so big club like UCD lose their place to someone on their name. There's a lot of crap points in there like limiting Dublin clubs but it's not anti-Rovers unless you consider not acknowledging the divine right of Rovers to be in the Premier anti-Rovers.

[Dodge]

FFS its not anti ROvers, he's just saying that UCD deserve their place in the premier more than you. Get over yourself...

As it is, its a totally crap suggestion

[Poor Student]

As it is, its a totally crap suggestion

That we deserve our place more or the argument he uses?

[Dodge]

The argument he uses. Jeesh, you lot are nearly as bad as Rovers...

[Poor Student]

The argument he uses. Jeesh, you lot are nearly as bad as Rovers...

It's not paranoia when they really are after you.;)

[Aberdonian Stu]

Too true.

[Roverstillidie]

all im saying is mcdermott and rovers have previous.
why 3 years? because its only in the past 3 years UCD would beat rovers on a league based criteria. its a dig at us.

but we agree its a poorly written, badly researched article regardless of any bias.

[NY Hoop]

As previously stated we have previous with mcdermott. IMO he is having a dig at us. Why did he even mention us?

He "wrote" this rubbish article last season about Rovers fans cursing at games!

Guy has lost the plot and especially given who he writes for cannot be taken seriously. Its only his opinion and his opinion does not count.

KOH

[JC_GUFC]

Why did he even mention us?


KOH


Because in about a month you're going to realise that you actually are in the First Division!

I think the FAI should hire some Galatasaray fans to attend relegation-threatened teams' games and then hold up banners "Wellcome to the Hell" when relegation is confirmed!

[Dodge]

No, that wouldn't be it. The premier points are weighted 1.5 to counter-act the easier first division. Its stupid as you cna't introduce something retroactively. I know for a fact that once Pats beat Cork and Rovers last year they gave up knowing they were safe. Would imagine a lot of clubs the same. Still its better than the criteria the Irish League used when splitting their single division. they used an accumulation of finish positions over two points and in the end it was better for one team to lose than draw as the 3 points gained by one team made them jump one place and stop someone the team that lost...

[thejollyrodger]

Your co-efficent in UEFA is over 5 years so why is Mc Dermott using just 3 ?

[BohDiddley]

Sorry that this repeats stuff I posted elsewhere, but I think it's relevant.

UCD is in Dublin, AFAIK, not in Dun Laoghaire. Maybe PS will set me right on that.
A lot of Dun Laoghaire support goes to Bray, via Joey's and other connections, but Mr McDermott seems keen to spare our Wicklow cousins from this examination.
I don't know about Dun Laoghaire being a natural stomping ground for SRFC. I live there, and, hand on heart, Celtic apart, you're more likely to see the black 'n' red!
This article, like FAI/government thinking, is deeply flawed, because it is based on playschool geography.
Anyway, what's wrong with 'Dublin overload'? Are Dublin football clubs and their supporters to be the only people on the island to pay for this country's disastrous spatial planning and the failure to develop regions? There are more ppl in Dublin, and there is not a disproportionate number of clubs serving them.

[sullanefc]

Your co-efficent in UEFA is over 5 years so why is Mc Dermott using just 3 ?

That would make a lot more sense.

[pineapple stu]

UCD is in Dublin, AFAIK, not in Dun Laoghaire. Maybe PS will set me right on that.
He says we're in the the political area of Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown, which would include Stillorgan, Kilmacud, Dún Laoghaire, Blackrock, etc., etc. (I think). The point he's making though is that that's the general area we're focussing on. Whether or not it's working isn't his point.

I don't see the point of his article. The initial idea - to limit the number of Dublin teams - is nonsensical, going back to the whole idea of you don't make the league stronger by kicking out the stronger teams. He says he's against the idea of hand-picking teams on subjective criteria, but then goes on to outline the idea in full. Doing so just makes the league look even more stupid.

The cynic would probably say it's another attempt by the FAI to put the feelers out and guage public opinion about an idea they have.

Hopefully a non-runner though.

[Student Mullet]

That article was a pile of bollo*, even by indo standards.
Gerry wrote an aticle on franchise football last week. Now he's writing an article on how he disagrees with himself. To 'prove' his point he's making up criteria as stupid as anything else I've read all week. If Shamrock Rovers finish top two next season they deserve a place ahead of anyone who finishes bottom two in the premier.

[pete]

The level of pessimism in MacDermotts weekly articles is usually shocking. Been long time since i read an article from him worthy of my time.

[NY Hoop]

Because in about a month you're going to realise that you actually are in the First Division!

I think the FAI should hire some Galatasaray fans to attend relegation-threatened teams' games and then hold up banners "Wellcome to the Hell" when relegation is confirmed!

We know damn well what division we're in and have budgeted accordingly. We have accepted it with no complaints and will get on with it.

McDermott's article is nonsense and should be treated accordingly.

KOH

[Roverstillidie]

Your co-efficent in UEFA is over 5 years so why is Mc Dermott using just 3 ?

because it puts Rovers behind UCD. any longer profile we would be better, and the artcle was a stitch up of the hoops.

the man doesnt like us and never misses a chance to put the boot in

[bluemovie]

The beauty pageant analogy is good, but his logic for ranking the Dublin teams is deeply flawed. I'm not on a UCD witch-hunt - I don't mind them being in the Premier Division - but how could any system rate them as the third best Dublin team in recent seasons? They finished ahead of Pats last year on goal difference - the first time since 99/00 that UCD were ahead of Pats (by a point that time). In the mean-time, UCD were relegated while Pats have remained in the top flight. McDermott's ranking system is almost as subjective as Delaney's 'beauty contest'. The weighting of 1.5 for Premier games clearly isn't enough. Beating Shels (the best team over the last 3 years) is more than one and a half times harder than beating Monaghan (no offence). So in order for him to make a point, he has given UCD a big advantage by counting their wins from the 2004 promotion season while Pats were struggling, but surviving in the top division. I presume everyone agrees that Pats have been more successful than UCD in recent years. After that, you can argue about UCD v Rovers and the foolishness of a cap on the number of Dublin clubs.

[Schumi]

Yet another stupid way working out teams in the new league. Regardless of who's in or out, the only way to work it out is on the previous year's league standings. It does look like a way to have a go at Rovers to me BTW.

[pineapple stu]

They finished ahead of Pats last year on goal difference - the first time since 99/00 that UCD were ahead of Pats
Nope - finished ahead of them by four goals in 2002/03.

[Red4Eva]

such a stupid idea to limit the number of dublin teams, that doesn't mean that supporters of the non top4 clubs will start supporting the top 4. the idea of delaney's plans is to help the league grow&if this means, 5 years down the line, we have 7 dublin teams out of a ten team premier league getting massive attendances i'll accept it

[thejollyrodger]

Well ok, if a club in dublin like UCD can make the grade for the priemer division with stadium etc then fine, let them in.

However I dont think we really need 6 Dublin clubs. If all clubs are to remain then only 4 should be allowed into the priemer division for the good of the league.

Which of the 4 clubs get to make the grade has to be based as closely on UEFA standards and not the funny world of McDermott's.

The indo hasnt written a decent article on soccer in a long time. It has went to the dogs and so has McDermott the fool. His writing is sloppy and drunken like. He contradicts himself week in week out and is nothin short of a pathetic lazy journo.

[Philly]

UCD and Dublin are probablt the weaker teams in Dublin, with UCD having plenty of potential though.

[hoopy]

The worrying thing for me is that this excuse of a journo is on very favourable terms with Delaney so this idea may well have come from the fai

[Poor Student]

You think the FAI would be looking for reasons to save UCD particularly at the expense of Rovers?:confused:

[Student Mullet]

How about a rota basis? Two years in, one out?

[pineapple stu]

However I dont think we really need 6 Dublin clubs. If all clubs are to remain then only 4 should be allowed into the priemer division for the good of the league.
Why would you replace two teams with worse ones for the good of the league?

[thejollyrodger]

for a regional balance, I would go for

Shelbourne F.C
Bohemians F.C
Shamrock Rovers
Drogheda Utd

Cork City
Derry City
Sligo Rovers
Galway United
Waterford United
Finn Harps

Of course the Dublin clubs are going to be the strongest but with FAI and government backing some of the smaller clubs can develop.

[anto eile]

**** idea.
as for dublin overload aargument. 1/3 of the population of the state lives in Dublin.so thats going to have a huge effect on how the major clubs are distributed in the EL

[monkey magic]

for a regional balance, I would go for

Shelbourne F.C
Bohemians F.C
Shamrock Rovers
Drogheda Utd

Cork City
Derry City
Sligo Rovers
Galway United
Waterford United
Finn Harps

Of course the Dublin clubs are going to be the strongest but with FAI and government backing some of the smaller clubs can develop.

add in limerick and longford/athlone for a twelve team premier and i think youve predicted exactly what delaney and co area trying to achieve, wherher you agree with that or not is another matter...

[TonyD]

No, No, No.:mad: Don't lets get sucked into this debate at all. Here's an idea of how it should work. Football is played over ninety minutes , on a pitch, and the team who scores the most goals wins the game. If both teams score the same amount of goals they share the points. Over a period of time, say nine months, the teams who win the most games and gain the most points are judged the most successful, and are rewarded with titles, european places etc. The teams with the least amount of points are demoted and replaced by the most successful teams from a lower division. They then have the chance to gain re-entry into the top league by winning the lower league the following season. Does that sound like a plan ?

[rerun]

for a regional balance, I would go for
Shelbourne F.C
Bohemians F.C
Shamrock Rovers


So, to be regionally balanced, there'd be three Dublin clubs, one in Tallaght (hopefully soon), and then two clubs on the Northside playing out of the one stadium, leeching any possible chance of a financially supporting fan-base out of each other. Good idea. That way with two 10,000 seat stadia we could easily accommodate for a 1.5million population. Nice one. Can you be in charge please. Or are you already?

[Snoop Drog]

No, No, No.:mad: Don't lets get sucked into this debate at all. Here's an idea of how it should work. Football is played over ninety minutes , on a pitch, and the team who scores the most goals wins the game. If both teams score the same amount of goals they share the points. Over a period of time, say nine months, the teams who win the most games and gain the most points are judged the most successful, and are rewarded with titles, european places etc. The teams with the least amount of points are demoted and replaced by the most successful teams from a lower division. They then have the chance to gain re-entry into the top league by winning the lower league the following season. Does that sound like a plan ?

Nice idea TonyD but I can't see it catching on...:p

[CuanaD]

So, to be regionally balanced, there'd be three Dublin clubs, one in Tallaght (hopefully soon), and then two clubs on the Northside playing out of the one stadium, leeching any possible chance of a financially supporting fan-base out of each other. Good idea. That way with two 10,000 seat stadia we could easily accommodate for a 1.5million population. Nice one. Can you be in charge please. Or are you already?

yep, to properly regionalise it you would have to drop Shels or Bohs & take in Bray (or UCD):cool:

Anyway . . . I'd be in favour of a 'franchising' idea - where there would be 5 places available in Dublin (North City;SouthCity;Fingal;SouthDublinCoCo;& DunLaoghaireRathdown) Give the clubs 12-24 months to get their houses in order & bid for any of the franchises (& criteria would have to include the club's existing catchment area, so you would be less likely to see UCD getting the Fingal franchise or whatever)

[thejollyrodger]

well, if I were the FAI i would divide dublin up into north and south and then have divide north dublin and south Dublin into two. Thats the four clubs sorted.

The four clubs may well be playing out of Tallaght and maybe Dalyer (abbotstown my perference) with the remainder dublin clubs either amalagnated or confined to the lower division.

Not nice for all concerned but I think thats what Delaney might be trying.

Personally I would like to see two 20,000 all seater stadia in dublin for the groundshares in Tallaght and Dalyer. However 10,000 might have suffice initally with expansion on the cards if crowds increase.

[pineapple stu]

Personally I would like to see two 20,000 all seater stadia in dublin for the groundshares in Tallaght and Dalyer.
Do you want to explain where you're going to fit 20,000 seats into Dalyer?

[Dodge]

Or where you'll find 20,000 people to fill it?

[pineapple stu]

True, although only one is a lie being fobbed off on us by the Government in an attempt to get the deal secured...