Lessons to be learned from A-League?

[Snoop Drog]

Is Ian Fyffe playing for Sydney FC this season?
He was a fairly good centre half with Sydny Olympic and got called into
the Australia U21s while playing for them a few seasons ago.

Fyffe has been a first team regular but there is talk of him being dropped to allow Mark Rudan back into the team. His defending can be a bit dodgy but has a good work-rate.

[Mayo Red]

Granted it was only one game and it was pre-season, but I was at the Pre-Season Cup Semi-Final between Melbourne Victory and the Central Coast Mariners back in August and the standard was very poor even with Kevin Muscat playing for Victory, who by the way lost 3-1. God knows I've seen terrible football matches in the EL, and it is unfair to judge on just one game but the defending was comical at times and it was a very poor game. In my honest opinion, Shels, Cork or Derry would have had no problems with either team on the night. My girlfriend was with me and even though she has no great interest in football, she has been to a few Rovers matches and she reckoned it was worse than at home!

What I did find impressive however was the way the whole event was run. The game was played in front of a crowd of about 6,000 or 7,000 in the Olympic Park Stadium, which I'd say would have a capacity of around 20,000, and while it is dwarfed by the likes of the nearby MCG, it is a top class ground with an excellent pitch surrounded by a running track. Everything from ticketing to security, stewarding, fan amenities and facilities was excellent, and is definately something that the EL has to improve on. We are light years behind in that respect, although I doubt we'll ever be able to buy beer inside our football grounds!:( :D

The Government and the FAI have got to get together and provide more funding for infrastructure and facilities to attract more fans and especially families through the turnstiles. If the GAA can get my money as a taxpayer, surely domestic football in this country deserves more Government investment. It's back to the same old problem again, the EL is a viable product but it just needs this investment and a better image and marketing to attract the barstoolers and overcome the ignorance and apathy of the likes of some of my mates who think I'm crazy going to EL games!

[Snoop Drog]

mayored:The pre-season cup was one of the first games for alot of these teams so the standard was to be expected. The standard has improved since then.

I agree with the rest of your post. And buying beer at games (and drinking it in your seat as oppossed to behind the stands as in England) is the best- Combing football and beer, my two favourtie hobbies!

[hamish]

[QUOTE=sirhamish][QUOTE=Snoop Drog]

as I wouldn't in any Shelhemians/ Bohbourne abortion; that's not the point tho' - Delaney and prospective media partners aren't interested in the couple of thousand lunatics who for some unaccountable reason watch often dire football in sh!tholes up and down the country and frequent message boards; they want the people who DON'T go already - so what you and I and everyone else here think of the idea is irrelevant.


Dunno about that sonofstan - new fans are welcome but the bedrock - ie US - will always keep footie going. Delaney is only as important as we let him be. We cannot depend on event junkies anyway. I'm open minded about all this - maybe you're right,

I suppose we'll see as things pan out.:)
Actually, that Shelhemians has a nice ring to it.LOL

[Mayo Red]

And buying beer at games (and drinking it in your seat as oppossed to behind the stands as in England) is the best- Combing football and beer, my two favourtie hobbies!

Throw in a Chicken Schnitzel and Chips washed down by a cold Touheys or VB, all in the comfort of your seat and you really have a winner alright!:D

[Snoop Drog]

Exactly Mayored!

btw- I think your sig is somewhat relevant to this thread.

[stevieontour]

Throw in a Chicken Schnitzel and Chips washed down by a cold Touheys or VB, all in the comfort of your seat and you really have a winner alright!:D

Mayo, you can't really mean that .. I mean, 90% of Aussies beers are p*iss, but Touheys or VB are really shocking.

They give you a worse hangover than Chang Beer.

The beers are so bad here, I can't understand why they have drinking problems at all.

[Snoop Drog]

Boags, Cascade, Little Creatures, Coopers pale ale, Extra Dry- And a decent pint of Guinness at The Welcome Hotel in Rozelle if you are really stuck :p

[stevieontour]

Boags maybe ,,, I do like Jimmy Squires ...

All the rest are p*ss

[Snoop Drog]

25,500 at Sydneys game last night. Franchise or not, it is drawing alot of punters...

Ash- Ian Fyffe came off the benc hfor the last two minutes.He was one yellow short of suspension so he had two mins plus stoppage to stay out of the book.

he was booked after 90 secs to a reckless challenge. One match suspension :p

[pete]

I don't see franchose football as a reality here as clubs would have to vote for themselves plus not as easy to just spread throughout the country. Still if franchise footall got 10k crowds overnight the clubs would vote to exchange for 1-2k crowds...

[anto eile]

A League was launched here in Oz last year (this is the first season) and I believe that el can learn a lot from it.

One team per market: Yep, it’s a big one that could mean the end of a number of clubs (including mine). Sydney, for example, had a number of clubs in the old national league. Basically a new club, separate from all the existing clubs, was created and the existing clubs effectively relegated to the state league. The league was careful not to link the new entity, Sydney FC, with any of the old clubs (hence “United” or “City” wasn’t added to the club name; new ground- The fantastic Aussie Stadium). Each of the old clubs got attendances of a few thousand at best. Sydney FC has had average attendances of about 17,000 and a record home crowd of 27,000 (unofficially a lot more as the turnstiles were opened to let the thousands outside who arrived late in for free).
The result of setting up a “neutral” club was that most of the fans of the old clubs moved to Sydney FC- And these were fans who not only had emotive link to their old clubs but a cultural link too as many of the old sides where linked to various ethnic groups (Greek, Italian, Croat). But they saw that in order for football to develop in Oz, they had to support the new entity.
For me the real success is the “greater football community” becoming involved. People who had never been to a football match before but watched English Premiership on TV came to see the new league, familes (100’s on them) whos kids played “soccer” on Sundays were attracted to the game, people like me who had no link to the old league but missed football back home (there are many Irish and British fans at Sydney FC games) came to see what the new league is like. The season is almost over and attendances have stayed steady at 16,000-17,000 (this week will be a bumper week vs league leaders Adelaide- 20,000 perhaps??)

I see this as a model for football in Dublin. One club, non affiliated with any existing el club, pooling together the existing support and more.

Entry to the league wasn’t just based on geographical location (although all major centres are included) but on financial backing, stadium and local opportunities. Hence areas like the Central Coast of NSW have a club (with average attendances over 7,500).

A salary cap- keeping a level playing field until the league is established (although every team is allowed one “marquee player” outside the cap. Kevin Muscat and Dwight Yorke play in the league as marquee players.Laugh at Muscat and Yorke if you want but there is no player of their experience playing in el. Imagine Yorke played for your club…)

I’m not saying A-League is perfect (only 8 clubs so far, a question over is it can keep quality players it develops without Europe buying them up, early days yet) but it is a brilliant start. A league similar to el has been converted into something that appears a lot more viable and likely to succeed.
i support Rovers. i wouldn cross the road to watch a "dublin united " no real football fan would either.
i dont agree with the australian FA ridding clubs of their ethnic history either. theres nothing wrong with that especially in a country like australia (and the USA too, if the situation were the same), where 99% of the population have nothing to do with australia, ethnically speaking.theres nothing wrong with being proud of your cultural background (obviously once it dosent lead to intolerance of others).
franchise football is the most vile form of prostitution on the planet

[anto eile]

Incorrect.

The longest away trip in Senior Professional Football is the one made by Luch-Energiya Vladivostok to Zenit St Petersburg in the Russian Premier League.

A distance of some 10,500km
i assume luch-energiya got promoted this year? and noticed terek grozny went down. unfortuante that

[anto eile]

There is talk of the Montréal Impact being admitted to the League in 2 season's time.

I think it's conditional on the upgrading of their stadium
bit off topic, but i reckon the MLS and A-League would be better off merging and forming a two-tier US football league

[Dodge]

bit off topic, but i reckon the MLS and A-League would be better off merging and forming a two-tier US football league
Nah americans would have no interest in any team that was relegated. It different for the A league as its seen as a development league. Franchises work in america...

[Jerry The Saint]

Franchises work in america...

...and in Cork too. There's nothing wrong with franchises as such if they fill a defined gap in the market that isn't currently served, or has been let down by mismanaged clubs in the past - like the case of Cork City in 1984. You could argue that Kildare Co are a less successful (so far) example of this. "Franchises" like Dublin City which was set up in an already crowded market in a bid to build a fanbase from name recognition only or any potential merger of clubs, which was shot down when it was proposed for rugby league in England, is a whole different matter.

[thomas]

The reality is there are a lot of perks with the franchise model.
A sensible approch would be to see which bits of the franchise model would tranfer well here.
The obvious example is to have a centralised sponsorship system for pitch side ad boards. Clubs could retain 20% of the boards and the new league would have a much stronger hand to market the remainder and split the funds evenly (and at a higher level than clubs would currently make).

Another idea is A-League and NFL centralised fixture promotion which would eliminate **** "Daily Star" deals and see proper advertising of all games.

Merchandise would also be a big earner. Just look what dublin city have done with no actual brand. A centralised NFL style kit deal would bring much bigger rewards to clubs as they would retain current sales (ie at home games, online club shops) but also get kickbacks based on overall sales from centrally marketed.

One element that can definitely be used in the event of an all ireland league is a rip off of the superbowl featuring playoffs to get the european spots, just a natural progression of the setanta cup and it wont affect the blazers to boot. It would also play to the event junkie culture prevalent in irish society.

As for franchised clubs, thats just a joke. Proper licensing will secure the financial status of clubs and UEFA brought in Licensing to prevent a Franchise system from developing.

If common sense applied a number of clubs would do this kind of centralisation themselves if the league and fai dont get their act together.

[Soper]

This isn't american football, and we are not in america.

[Block G Raptor]

One element that can definitely be used in the event of an all ireland league is a rip off of the superbowl featuring playoffs to get the european spots, just a natural progression of the setanta cup and it wont affect the blazers to boot. It would also play to the event junkie culture prevalent in irish society.

I can see that catching on, It's all about hype and marketing at the end of the day. wouldn't necessary have to be an all ireland league either this could work in the eircom too
say 20 games league format then bottom three down rest in a knock out cup style home and away for the league (ala Champions league)
I know that may upset the purists but it would certainly whet the appetite of the so called event junkies
same with the first division playoff finalists both up third/fourth place playoff for third promotion slot
or maybe four up four down with two playoff finals something along those lines could work

[thomas]

This isn't american football, and we are not in america.

Its the same format as the setanta cup and the european cup, both of which are vastly superior to the league itself and both attract bigger crowds. The main point is to take the positives from anywhere possible, especially with centralised marketing as the NFL and EPL have done. This is not rocket science.
The structure is up for debate and the old fashioned league with 3 - 4 series of games is simply not working. A 26-30 game season would be the ideal set up for the new league if enough teams qualify as it means each home game for every club can be turned into an event.

In the longer run a merger would be facilitated by an expanded setanta cup style play-off for european spots and the all ireland title (which it pretty much is any way). At that point it could be decided whetere to persevere with a playoff system or merge the divisions into an all ireland "elite" league.

Time to open up the aul minds lads an come up with constructive ideas instead of saying "this aint amerika".

[Mayo Red]

Mayo, you can't really mean that .. I mean, 90% of Aussies beers are p*iss, but Touheys or VB are really shocking.

They give you a worse hangover than Chang Beer.

The beers are so bad here, I can't understand why they have drinking problems at all.

I didn't say they were great but as they say, when in Rome...................! It's nice to be able to have a beer at a game of football though, and I agree with you about the hangovers, they are chronic, with VB probably just being the worst of the two!:eek:

[Bald Student]

It's nice to be able to have a beer at a game of football thoughWould you not just sneak in a few tins like the rest of us?

[Mayo Red]

Would you not just sneak in a few tins like the rest of us?

There's no need to in Oz!:) I see where you're coming from though!

[Snoop Drog]

From Sydney Morning Herald 7 February

AIME Jacquet has delivered his verdict on the A-League game he saw on Friday - fun to watch but with tired teams, and of good French second-division standard.

France's World Cup-winning coach was among the record 25,557 crowd at Aussie Stadium to witness Sydney FC beat Adelaide United 2-1 in the final round of the regular season.

While Jacquet enjoyed his first A-League game, he felt both teams appeared weary.

"I felt both teams were tired," he told AAP in his native French. ".. It was a good match, as good as I could see in France. I think it's a league similar to the second division in France, but a good level in the second division."

[NY Hoop]

Its the same format as the setanta cup and the european cup, both of which are vastly superior to the league itself and both attract bigger crowds. The main point is to take the positives from anywhere possible, especially with centralised marketing as the NFL and EPL have done. This is not rocket science.
The structure is up for debate and the old fashioned league with 3 - 4 series of games is simply not working. A 26-30 game season would be the ideal set up for the new league if enough teams qualify as it means each home game for every club can be turned into an event.

In the longer run a merger would be facilitated by an expanded setanta cup style play-off for european spots and the all ireland title (which it pretty much is any way). At that point it could be decided whetere to persevere with a playoff system or merge the divisions into an all ireland "elite" league.

Time to open up the aul minds lads an come up with constructive ideas instead of saying "this aint amerika".

Well 3 series of games here is not working anyway. Would love to see a 26-30 game season but for that you would need a 16 team premier league which cant happen due to the munbers involved. Also the standard is not high enough to have 16 teams in a premier league here.

koh

[seansouth]

Snoop Drog, I'm the Shels fan you had a pop at on the Sydney FC Unofficial forum a while back. How are you?


I rate it as been better stadard than el


Maybe put it down to being away from the el "scene" for too long (6 years or so)

Indeed.

Having been to all of the Sydney FC home games this year, well since I arrived in mid September, I'd reckon our top five clubs at least would do well in the A-League.

I think what happened with the creation of the A-League would not work on this side of the world at all.

As for this


Touheys or VB

I'd have to agree with this


90% of Aussies beers are p*iss, but Touheys or VB are really shocking.
:D
Carlton Draught is my particular tipple.

[thomas]

Well 3 series of games here is not working anyway. Would love to see a 26-30 game season but for that you would need a 16 team premier league which cant happen due to the munbers involved. Also the standard is not high enough to have 16 teams in a premier league here.

koh

True, but it would be possible to get 14 teams in both divisions if the genesis idea of 8 extra culchie teams are included.

Less is definitely more.

[NY Hoop]

True, but it would be possible to get 14 teams in both divisions if the genesis idea of 8 extra culchie teams are included.

Less is definitely more.

There will be no extra clubs coming in. Genesis was a recommendation. Clubs would never vote for a decrease in games anyway.

KOH

[thomas]

If the fai league is set at 14 teams they wont have much choice. Its the only way to turn the league into a better "event".

Put it this way, 13 gates against team in one off games would get a higher total attendance than the 16/17 gates currently.

The middle clubs would all go for it as it would mean they have a better chance of staying in the premier, the lower clubs would prefer to have the reduced wage bill of a shorter season and the teams in europe would not have a fixture backlog to contend with. Its win win.

As for the extra teams, thats going to happen, the whole point of the U-21 legue was to see if it was possible, ie kerry and mayo leagues etc...

[NY Hoop]

I can guarantee you that the extra teams is not happening at all and is not even on the menu.

The league for 2007 will be set at 10 or 12.

KOH

[Snoop Drog]

Tis yourself Seansouth!

Point taken re: A-League Vs el standard. I think it is hard to compare but I definitely believe there is unfinitely more opportunities for AL to improve than there is for el.

Sean- Have you enjoyed the Sydney FC season? As a team and football standard, I think it has been up & down but I have really enjoyed it and am looking forward to the finals series.

BTW- I had a pop at Shels, not at yourself (nothing personal and all)

As for the beer- At this stage I would drink anything!

[TonyD]

I think the problem witrh Snoop Drogs original thesis is that he is confusing support for a team with support for the league. Speaking personally I support my club. I don't particularly support the league, only as a by product of supporting Pats. I'm sure other supporters feel the same, don't they ? Therefore who would be interested in supporting a new club "in the interests of the league?"

[Snoop Drog]

Tony- I reckon alot of existing el fans feel that way. It was the same in Oz- Alot of the old club's fans swore they would never support the new league, and many didn't.

The league depended on bringing in new support- The "barstoolers", the families, the general sportsfan, the event junkies. So it isn't just a continuation of the old league- new blood is needed.

Last week Sydney FC got over 25,000 at their game (even though it's a big city, the numbers are impressive) which is more than all the old Sydney clubs weekly attendances combined.

I'm not convinced that the A-League format would work in Ireland. Not becuase the idea is flawed but because I don't think the FAI would have the vision to drive it. But I am convinced that there is a better way than what is happening now- Hopefully another successful Setanta Cup will plant more seeds of the benefits of being more involved with our Northern brothers.