View Full Version : Rico: Shels spending money they don't have
Rico just did an interview on Red FM and said how Shels (and other Dublin clubs) are spending silly money, money that they don't have in order to try and achieve success.
He said he will not get drawn into this as he does not want to see any clubs go out of business.
If any club spending money they don't have to a signifcant level, the new guidelines, whenever the FAI enlightens us as to what they are, should put them in the first division. Something tells me that that'll suddenly be swept under the carpet though....
dcfcsteve
29/01/2006, 8:38 PM
There's a difference between a club spending money it doesn't have, and spending money in an unsustainable way. Both are bad, but only one will fall foul of the Licensing.
Spending money you don't have involves 'borrowing' - whether directly through traditional channels, or indirectly by failing to pay your creditors. Licensing will rightly stamp this out, as it is very poor financial management.
Spending money in an unsustainable way may well involve money you 'have' in the bank. However - it is money you have by virtue of the generosity of individuals etc. Because the continuance of this income is outside of the club's control, it is unsustainable to rely upon it to any significant degree. However - licensing can't and won't throw you out of the league for spending money that the club itself didn't directly generate through its commercial activities. Nonetheless, it is still very dangerous for clubs to be reliant on this type of income beyond the short-to-medium term, though we have a number of such in the league.
So the question with Shels is - are they borrowing their money, or just overly dependent upon the generosity of a few individuals ?
higgins
29/01/2006, 8:39 PM
Well I think its foolish of Rico to come out saying that if he doesnt have the balls to back it up...
Either do something about it or shut up..
Roverstillidie
29/01/2006, 9:18 PM
Well I think its foolish of Rico to come out saying that if he doesnt have the balls to back it up...
Either do something about it or shut up..
typical head in sand response.
he has done something about it, gone public.
Well i'm not suprised he said this because its probably true bar shels. Derry hardly invested in their squad and suffered from relegation dogfights to secure a premier club licensing and look how stable our club is financially now with a good manager. Onwards and Upwards we are going!
MariborKev
29/01/2006, 9:52 PM
I would imagine that all clubs spend money they don't have at some point.
One only has to look at any club round the league and look at the number of "fundraising" drives we are all running to see that the clubs are not financially viable on the basis of crowds alone/
chippie0001
29/01/2006, 9:53 PM
Rico just did an interview on Red FM and said how Shels (and other Dublin clubs) are spending silly money, money that they don't have in order to try and achieve success.
He said he will not get drawn into this as he does not want to see any clubs go out of business.
Hardly a surprise to anyone. If anyone really thinks that Bohs/Rovers/Shels/Pats in recent years were spending only the money they generated were crazy. Pats seemed to learn first, Rovers next sadly us and Shels keep doing it. Still all bubbles burst in the end :rolleyes:
Slash/ED
29/01/2006, 10:30 PM
Ours has just lasted well over a decade and counting....
Shels clearly have more benefactors than most clubs & more importantly these benefactors stay the course in the long term.
I wonder what percentage of income most clubs in the league generate from their own resources?
dcfcsteve
30/01/2006, 12:39 AM
I would imagine that all clubs spend money they don't have at some point.
One only has to look at any club round the league and look at the number of "fundraising" drives we are all running to see that the clubs are not financially viable on the basis of crowds alone/
But is that money they don't have, but expect to get/generate (hence the ongoing fundraising initiatives) or money that's being spent on a complete wing and a prayer - with no solid plans for how it can be repaid ?
Money has to come from somewhere, and I doubt that many of our clubs have generous debt-agreements with their banks. That suggests benefactors are the main source for the clubs who's expenditure-to-attendances ratio is way out of line (e.g. Shels and CHF). But that would have no negative impact upon their licensing status.
sfc red
30/01/2006, 8:23 AM
Would you ever get over your Dublin City fixation
Recent examples of overspending would be Waterford & Shamrock Rovers who while they don't seem to have large bank debts owed a lot of money in private loans from Directors. IMO Directors who loan money to clubs they running are not entitled to anything.
Dodge
30/01/2006, 10:38 AM
Fenlon spoke last year of "speculating to accumulating" so this isn't news. Every knows Shels budgeted for further euro progression hence several players being hawked around the league now as thye bid to cut costs.
Fenlon spoke last year of "speculating to accumulating" so this isn't news. Every knows Shels budgeted for further euro progression hence several players being hawked around the league now as thye bid to cut costs.
The diference between money & exposure in Inter Toto & Cl is huge even in eL terms. I suppose Shels can handle 1 bad year but failure to at least make Uefa Cup in 2006 season would surely be too much for Shels?
Dodge
30/01/2006, 10:47 AM
lets hope so
I think what Rico was getting at is that Cork City are one of the few clubs doing things above board and that he won't get drawn into Shels game of Russian roulette as he feels it can only lead to clubs going bust.
Roverstillidie
30/01/2006, 2:27 PM
I think what Rico was getting at is that Cork City are one of the few clubs doing things above board and that he won't get drawn into Shels game of Russian roulette as he feels it can only lead to clubs going bust.
so says every manager who has failed to keep a winning side together
...who while they don't seem to have large bank debts owed a lot of money in private loans from Directors.
If you're reffering to Waterford here, Pete, you might want to get your facts straight.
Anyway, aren't Shels sitting on a 20 million euro site. So maybe they're just spending money they will have once they start ground sharing, and Rico is just jealous.
Red4Eva
30/01/2006, 3:52 PM
ollie & co. have never kept it a secret that they are takin risks financially based on the hope of making the group stages within 5 years&perhaps this risk is been taken cos he knows they can always sell tolka
ThatGuy
30/01/2006, 4:02 PM
Shels are gambling on any deal that they will do when they leave Tolka. If Bohs turn them away from Dalymount they could be in big trouble.
dcfcsteve
30/01/2006, 4:14 PM
Would you ever get over your Dublin City fixation
I'm confused :confused:
I mentioned Dublin City as one of 2 well-known examples of teams on our league with a gross imbalance between attendances and expenditure. I was therefore reporting a fact. There are undoubtedly other teams with a big imbalance, but Shels and CHF would be widely accepated as having the biggest ratio.
So therefore - are you claiming that Dublin City's attendance-to-expenditure ratio ISN'T grossly imbalanced ?? :confused: Or am I just not alowed to quote facts regarding Dublin City any more, oh master..... ?
I'm confused :confused:
Well ye do seem to have a hard on for them ;) - nearly every 2nd post from ye is about them - and thats not even including your signature :eek:
Roverstillidie
30/01/2006, 8:13 PM
Well ye do seem to have a hard on for them ;) - nearly every 2nd post from ye is about them - and thats not even including your signature :eek:
a hard on for rocky seery :eek:
thats plain disgusting that it.
higgins
30/01/2006, 8:21 PM
My head is not in the sand ....
At the start of every season I listen to 'Shels going bust soon' rubbish. If people just thought for a second they would realise last season Shels received Champions League money for the 2004 run and we also came 2nd in the Setanta Cup.
This coming season is where the funds dry up due to the poor run in last seasons Champions League and the fact we are facing Intertoto Football. With that in mind Shels released 7 players the day after the season ended! and we have since sold one of our better players for a fee believed to be above the €150,000 Livingston have stated.
I am delighted Shels invested in the team last close season and gave it a go of taking it to the next level. Sadly for us it didnt work out so we roll back and start again this season. I am sure if we win the league you will see further investment on the pitch from Fenlon.
It would annoy me more if Shels won the league and didnt invest in any better players.
Bald Student
30/01/2006, 8:25 PM
It would annoy me more if Shels won the league and didnt invest in any better players.Touché
Roverstillidie
30/01/2006, 9:09 PM
It would annoy me more if Shels won the league and didnt invest in any better players.
you must have been tearing your hair out last season so!!! :D
the point isnt that shels are going to go belly up, but when a former manager says something like that you have to take notice.
even though i suspect his comments are for a corkie audience that would like to know why their 'local' side are scrambling to get out the door....
Speranza
30/01/2006, 9:31 PM
All this from a man who is scraping the barrel by attempting to bring a GAA player into his club. :rolleyes:
All this from a man who is scraping the barrel by attempting to bring a GAA player into his club. :rolleyes:
PR stunt to embarish the GAA?
I'd be surprised if he got near the 1st team.
dcfcsteve
30/01/2006, 10:40 PM
Well ye do seem to have a hard on for them - nearly every 2nd post from ye is about them - and thats not even including your signature :eek:
You obviously don't spend enought time on the Current Affairs board if you think half my posts are about CHF :D
It's the off season. There's very little to talk about on this board, and there have been a number of posts on Dublin City. If people will post about them or any other issue, I'll respond. Simple as...
Tell you what - I'll lose my stiffy for Dublin City, when they stop delusing themselves that they're only 5 years old. Deal.....? :)
higgins
31/01/2006, 1:40 AM
even though i suspect his comments are for a corkie audience that would like to know why their 'local' side are scrambling to get out the door....
I think you'd be 100% correct in thinking that ..
There is no need for him to mouth off over Shels and to be honest there are not many people involved in the Eircom League who didnt say Shels were overspending at some stage. Its what Shels do when they win things, you go out and try for that next level.
I dont care what anybody says but Shels have scaled back over the close season and thats as I said on top of a season of Setanta Cup, Weso transfer and Champions League 3rd QR money.
Rico !!
The man who thinks there are only two players in the EL who are good enough for Cork, one of which is Jason Byrne.
YET!!!!!!!
He was trying to get Kearney up to a few weeks back and has now signed a lad who doesnt play football..
A face
31/01/2006, 2:15 AM
even though i suspect his comments are for a corkie audience that would like to know why their 'local' side are scrambling to get out the door....
Yeah ... all two were meant to be leaving and one is back with the club !! :eek:
Slight over reaction there me thinks !!
Rico !!
The man who thinks there are only two players in the EL who are good enough for Cork, one of which is Jason Byrne.
YET!!!!!!!
He was trying to get Kearney up to a few weeks back and has now signed a lad who doesnt play football..
Higgins, its the off-season, Paul Galvin was invited to train with the club and he played in an internal club match on a city v city lineup..all city are doing is having a look ay him
since when does this constitute "signing" a player!
jeeze some ppl love to have a go like.. imagine the other way round.. there's a skillful soccer player who also played GAA with Kerry, he's not playing GAA for a while yet city or any club dont go for him or have a look at him, i can imagine ppl then complaining about the club ignoring a GAA player or ignoring talent blah blah blah
personally ive seen the guy play he is skillfull, big and strong, whether he is good enough for city is presumably why he's training with the club at the moment so that Rico can see himself!!!!
CollegeTillIDie
02/02/2006, 6:44 AM
PR stunt to embarish the GAA?
I'd be surprised if he got near the 1st team.
Just because he's a Kerryman doesn't mean he's crap at real football!:D
CollegeTillIDie
02/02/2006, 6:53 AM
Well I think when it comes to club's spending money they don't have.
UCD are probably the only innocent ones in the Premier.
I think if we want to know where the current Dublin City FC began , it dates back to the split in the Home Farm fold in 1996 when the EL portion became a seperate entity and became Home Farm Everton (later Home Farm Fingal). In 2001 this portion of CHF was rename Dublin City and re-corporated. The company Dublin City F.C. dates back to 2001.
Of course this is the second ACTUAL Dublin City F.C.. The first one was a non-league outfit originally named Colepark United and they were backed for a few years by a slightly wealthy man. And they rented Richmond Park from St. Pat's for a couple of seasons in the mid to late 1980's. They fizzled out after a while.
There was also an attempt by some individuals, fronted by Ray Treacy to form a club here , call it Dublin City, and enter the Scottish League.
Then there was the attempt to move Clydebank to Dublin and possibly rebrand them in the 1990's when the Wimbledon move was, quite rightly in my view, blocked by the FA , UEFA and FIFA . That petered out as did Clydebank themselves.
OneRedArmy
02/02/2006, 10:20 AM
Well I think when it comes to club's spending money they don't have.
UCD are probably the only innocent ones in the Premier.
Thats the benefit of being the club side of a multi-billion euro institution which is able to throw around a few scholarships a year.
dcfcsteve
02/02/2006, 12:01 PM
Well I think when it comes to club's spending money they don't have.
UCD are probably the only innocent ones in the Premier.
I think if we want to know where the current Dublin City FC began , it dates back to the split in the Home Farm fold in 1996 when the EL portion became a seperate entity and became Home Farm Everton (later Home Farm Fingal). In 2001 this portion of CHF was rename Dublin City and re-corporated. The company Dublin City F.C. dates back to 2001.
Of course this is the second ACTUAL Dublin City F.C.. The first one was a non-league outfit originally named Colepark United and they were backed for a few years by a slightly wealthy man. And they rented Richmond Park from St. Pat's for a couple of seasons in the mid to late 1980's. They fizzled out after a while.
There was also an attempt by some individuals, fronted by Ray Treacy to form a club here , call it Dublin City, and enter the Scottish League.
Then there was the attempt to move Clydebank to Dublin and possibly rebrand them in the 1990's when the Wimbledon move was, quite rightly in my view, blocked by the FA , UEFA and FIFA . That petered out as did Clydebank themselves.
Thanks CTID - did you miss the 1,000 page thread on the origins of Dublin City or somehing.....? :eek: :D
Bald Student
02/02/2006, 1:05 PM
Thats the benefit of being the club side of a multi-billion euro institution which is able to throw around a few scholarships a year.Hardley multi-billion, a few hundred million at most. The point is still valid. UCD soccer club starts each season with a budget, the same as any other club. Keeping inside the budget isn't rocket science. The college has a committee which reviews all the clubs accounts so we couldn't over-spend even if we wanted to.
The other clubs don't have the benefit of having 'big brother' keeping an eye on them but that still doesn't excuse poor financial management.
bluemovie
03/02/2006, 1:46 PM
Yeah ... all two were meant to be leaving and one is back with the club !! :eek:
Slight over reaction there me thinks !!
Almost as much of an over-reaction as Cork fans calling John O'Flynn "Judas" a couple of months ago.:D
sfc red
09/02/2006, 8:19 AM
Thanks CTID - did you miss the 1,000 page thread on the origins of Dublin City or somehing.....? :eek: :D
D-u-b-l-i-n C-i-t-y f-i-x-a-t-i-o-n
CollegeTillIDie
09/02/2006, 10:14 AM
Thanks CTID - did you miss the 1,000 page thread on the origins of Dublin City or somehing.....? :eek: :D
Yes kinda did and as I have a life off Foot.ie I didn't have a spare three weeks to read it :D
CollegeTillIDie
09/02/2006, 10:18 AM
Thats the benefit of being the club side of a multi-billion euro institution which is able to throw around a few scholarships a year.
If what you said were actually true we would have the biggest budget of any club in the EL. The truth of the matter is we are not bankrolled by the University. We have to source sponsors for all the scholarships awarded.
We are assisted in doing so by the Sports Department of UCD which has to find scholarship sponsors for a variety of sports. Over 90 scholarships are awarded across a range of sports about 10% of which would be for the male soccer teams. Given that gate receipts are only a small fraction of an EL club's budget an incredible amount of off field fund raising ventures take place to put the funding in place to keep the club afloat. Much like Derry City or any other EL club for that matter.
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