Prime Time last night

[rebs23]

Absolutely unbelievable stuff on it last night. Willie O'Dea a Junior Minister of Justice at the time sitting down with the biggest collection of crooks and gangsters in Limerick trying to get a peace process going with these guys. Giving them credibility, respectability and massaging their egos.

Remember these are the same guys who have tried to burn down the state solicitors office on more that one occasion, intimidated witnesses causing the collapse of cases, murdered each other and others that got caught in the way, followed guards and prison officers home, caused over 70 shooting incidents last year and he's talking to them pleading with them no doubt for peace for the sake of Limerick! Appalling lack of judgement for a senior minister.

It really came across last night however the absolute mess that is crime in Limerick, totally out of control. Over 70 shootings in the space of one year! I wonder how many shootings in cities of a similar size like Galway and Waterford!!

[Lim till i die]

I said it to my dad last night it could look very bad for Willie (who loves nothing more than seeing himself on telly). I mean to put it in context could you picture Michael McDowell or Bertie sitting down with the Westies. Would they fcuk!! :eek:

BTW on the shootings thing I would argue that
a) Waterford is much, much smaller than Limerick and
b) Galway has nowhere near the same history of social problems and urban deprivation in certain areas (could be open to correction by Galway folks on this one :p )

[joeSoap]

I've been through this time and time again in other threads, so I won't harp on here, but practically all of those shootings in Limerick over that period involved the same feuding families. Joe Public was never in any danger, and Limerick was and still is one of the safest cities I've walked around at night.

This programme depicted something else, as these type of programmes usually do. Senior Gardai, Prison Officers, Journalists and others have been preyed upon to a much greater scale in Dublin thanks to John Gilligan & co, and there are far more savage organised criminal gangs in Dublin. Yet, RTE are very slow to highlight this in a documentary, unless Paul Williams needs some much craved after publicity.

Crime in Limerick is not and was never 'out of control' apart from a rather large family feud. There are no gangs like the Westies involved in extortion, kidnapping, organised car-theft in Limerick. It is confined to two major families feuding over drug control. Drug Dealing is the only crime in Limerick out of control, as it is in Galway, Waterford, Cork, Dublin, Ennis, Tralee, Athlone and all other major towns and cities in this country.

I do agree with you over airing such a programme however; it seemed to serve as a massive publicity stunt for Dum-de-dum-de-dum and his huge 'tache if you ask me !!

[pete]

Didn't Bertie sit down with the IRA? Didn't see the programme but am i missing something?

:confused:

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=rebs23] murdered each other and others that got caught in the way, QUOTE]

surely this answers your question on why he wanted them to stop shooting at each other , if they are nt shooting at each other no innocenct bystander will get harmed !.

also this meeting did nt keep any off them out of jail as some of the main players sitting at that table are now behind bars so the normal lines of justice are being followed and maybe an innocent life was saved by having this meeting i say fair play to him .

btw limerick has a much lower crime rate than waterford ,

[rebs23]

Bit of a difference between sitting down with elected representatives and sitting down with criminal gunmen.

I just think it's wrong for a Government Minister (of Justice) to sit down and talk to criminals about their activities pleading with them to stop. It's giving them a status in society they don't deserve, elected representatives especially those that legislate should be seen to uphold the law and not be meeting with mobsters intent on doing everything in their power to upset the criminal justice system. These guys do not deserve to have meetings with a Junior Minister for Justice, it's just plain wrong and this is part of the problem in Limerick.

[dcfcsteve]

Bit of a difference between sitting down with elected representatives and sitting down with criminal gunmen.

I just think it's wrong for a Government Minister (of Justice) to sit down and talk to criminals about their activities pleading with them to stop. It's giving them a status in society they don't deserve, elected representatives especially those that legislate should be seen to uphold the law and not be meeting with mobsters intent on doing everything in their power to upset the criminal justice system. These guys do not deserve to have meetings with a Junior Minister for Justice, it's just plain wrong and this is part of the problem in Limerick.

But what if sitting down with them helped reduce the problem and saved lives ? Would it be more important to instead chose to observe the mayhem and murder you could have stopped from the safe heights of your moral highground ? Would that make the people of Limerick better off ?

Is the outcome not more important than the means - provided nothing unconstitutional or illegal has been done in pursuit of that outcome ? A politicians supposed 'morals' won't bring back the lives of innocent people their actions could've saved...

[rebs23]

But what if sitting down with them helped reduce the problem and saved lives ? Would it be more important to instead chose to observe the mayhem and murder you could have stopped from the safe heights of your moral highground ? Would that make the people of Limerick better off ?

Is the outcome not more important than the means - provided nothing unconstitutional or illegal has been done in pursuit of that outcome ? A politicians supposed 'morals' won't bring back the lives of innocent people their actions could've saved...

It's a difficult one alright with many possible viewpoints and scenarios but it is very arguable if sitting down with criminals asking them to stop their activities actually stops their violence. I just think it is a bad call for a junior minister at the time to sit down with these guys,a very bad call.

I just don't think it helps stop the fued in fact it feeds it by almost legitimising the validity of their positions and acknowledging that they even have positions that need discussing. They don't have any genuine grievance that a politician especially a minister for justice should address.

They only thing a Minister of Justice should be addressing with these guys is the quickest way of putting them in prison.

This fued and all the other various fueds in Limerick will keep going on irrespective of pleadings from a politician so the message that needs to come from a judicial system under attack is that you will go to prison if you engage in these activities and that society will shun you for doing what you are doing.

Unfortunately in my experience in Limerick people do give a degree of respect to these guys that they don't deserve. Sometimes it's pride in the toughness of the city, sometimes it's bragging about being a relative of one of them, sometimes it's talking about their activities non stop and this all feeds into their egos and massages the legitamatcy of their actions. This in my opinion and like everything on the CA forum is only an opinion is that it feeds the fued and actually keeps it going.
In relation to the other points, I don't and I'm not slagging off Limerick as I say I spend a lot of time there and have good friends there, it's just that sometimes I feel the refusal to acknowledge that the city has unique problems in relation to violent crime actually feeds the problem.

[anto1208]

I feel the refusal to acknowledge that the city has unique problems in relation to violent crime actually feeds the problem.

i under stand that point i hate it when the first responce from a limerick person is well dublin is worse , like that makes it ok , what as long as our murder rate does nt get above the dubs its a safe city .

but the simple fact is it is a very safe city ,rarely do you hear of an innocent person getting stabbed shot mugged .



but on the meeting in 2003 there was something like 15 or so murders in the last 14 months there has been 2 so it did some good , one of the crime families has gotten out of the bussiness , and it also should be noted o dea didnt go to them and beg them to stop they wanted to call a truce to the war and asked him to mediate thats all . if it even saved one life then it was completely worth it .

[John83]

... on the meeting in 2003 there was something like 15 or so murders in the last 14 months there has been 2 so it did some good ....
The Tribune (I think) listed the muder rates for the various towns and cities around the country in the last year there recently. Limerick had a total of one murder. I think the problem is in hand.

[rebs23]

The Tribune (I think) listed the muder rates for the various towns and cities around the country in the last year there recently. Limerick had a total of one murder. I think the problem is in hand.

70 shootings over the space of 2005 and over 40 attempted murders. On the murder count in Limerick (christ this is morbid) there were 2 murders in Limerick City in 2005 one of those took place in the suburbs of Limerick City which is located in Co. Clare, therefore one of those murders was assigned to Co. Clare. The victim was from Southhill in Limerick City.

The problem is far from being in hand. Over a five or ten year period the figures get even worse and if you go on a per head of population basis it gets worse again.

[pete]

The Tribune (I think) listed the muder rates for the various towns and cities around the country in the last year there recently. Limerick had a total of one murder. I think the problem is in hand.

70 shootings & only 1 murder. Are they really that bad shots in Limerick? :D

[John83]

70 shootings & only 1 murder. Are they really that bad shots in Limerick? :D
My thoughts exactly. Christ, you'd get a higher fatality rate throwing rocks.

[lofty9]

is Willie O Dea the guy who looks like he has one of those silly disguises on his face, ala Inspector Clueso? What's the story with that guy? What part of the country voted him in? I thought he was a comedian the first time I saw him with that hair and face.

[Macy]

but on the meeting in 2003 there was something like 15 or so murders in the last 14 months there has been 2 so it did some good , one of the crime families has gotten out of the bussiness , and it also should be noted o dea didnt go to them and beg them to stop they wanted to call a truce to the war and asked him to mediate thats all . if it even saved one life then it was completely worth it .
It should also be noted that loads of them are in the nick at the moment, and it can't be put down to that meeting. In fairness to prime time and weird looking tache bloke I think this was pointed out on the programme.

Also, part of the reason for some of the families asking for the meeting was uninvolved members of their families becoming targets. There were a few people killed who's only crime was being related to somebody (according to the programme anyway).

Don't see what purpose O'Dea had on the programme - as it's clear the meeting made bugger all difference. On of the main families didn't even show up!