Love Ulster March

[dfx-]

The €64 million question:



You also have to ask, why are we producing such mindless goons? Who or what is responsible for it? Do you mean the pure criminal knackers or the tiocfaidh ár lá types? Is it time the educational system took a bit of emphasis off the whole 800 hundred years of opression riff?

I'd love to know how some people are trying to "understand" the violence and picking on those who planned it instead based on it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place. I didn't know democratic decisions were ever based on a "they started it first" mentality. Our democratically elected Government made a democratic decision to allow a march on democratic grounds through our city, so what is the response? To throw missiles of their own city at their own police to teach their own Government a lesson perhaps?:rolleyes: No sane Government or even our own one for that matter( ;) ) will listen to those who throw their fists around.

Mindless goons is certainly the term I have for those on Saturday who couldn't accept the democratic decision by our democratic Government to allow a march and threw their toys out of their prams again in such a childish manner as "well if I don't get my way democratically, I'll get it by force instead" - the thought processes of brutes, criminals and childish bullies and I for one will not be bullied into thinking that episode on Saturday was even remotely justified or anyone else's fault that the thugs who did it.

It's all too easy to come out with the anti-Gardaí, anti-McDowell usual rubbish for such events......this for me was the back breaking straw so to speak. Enough is enough - time to tackle the idiots at their level.

Solve Poor Student's questions, we go much further to eradicating the disease than kicking a few people out of their state-paid Mercs.......again.

[Block G Raptor]

Is it time the educational system took a bit of emphasis off the whole 800 hundred years of opression riff?

Absolutley Not. Those who forget their history are destined to repeat it. But i do think more enphasis should be put on the last decade and a half of our history too

[Dr.Nightdub]

Let's go back to the root of the thing here. Orange marches are DESIGNED to be provocative. Case in point: Drumcree, where there's a perfectly non-contentious route available but the Orangemen refuse to avail of it, on the surface because it's not their "traditional route" but in reality cos there's no fun having an Orange march if a few fenian noses can't be rubbed in the dirt along the way.

I posted these quotes way back in this thread:



The Orange system seems to us to have no other practical result than as a means of keeping up the Orange festivals, and celebrating them, leading as they do to violence, outrage, religious animosities, hatred between classes and, too often, bloodshed and loss of life.



Belfast is liable to periodic disturbances on occasions well known as the Orange anniversaries...If the celebration of these anniversaries be attended with such risk we might well ask why any party should obstinately adhere to it.

Not a lot has changed in Orangeism since the 19th Century. Saturday's march was equally intended to be provocative. On one level, O'Connell St reverts to being "the queen's highway". Or, on a different level, they get to flaunt pictures of one of the perpetrators of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings and dress him up as a "victim".

I can understand a level of repugnance at such people being let march in Dublin. At one level, that was what the RSF counter-demonstration was all about - pointing out the hypocrisy of commemorating as a "victim" someone who himself consciously set about creating actual victims.

People are banging on about free speech and how the loyalists should have been let march. At one level, that's justified - except in the case of proven fascists (in the political sense, rather than the pejorative sense), I'm all for free speech - and I don't consider FAIR / Love Ulster to be political fascists. But the flip side of free speech is the right to protest at something you find offensive.

However, I'm not naieve enough to think that what happened on Saturday was entirely motivated by some kind of righteous political anger. It wasn't. It may have had political protest as a seed bed but it was hijacked by opportunistic boneheads who used the occasion to vent their own disaffection or alienation from the public face of this state. Riots aren't planned - they're spontaneous opportunities that are seized upon by whoever happens to be in the vicinity with a mind to violently express their hostility to the status quo. Saturday was no exception.

Put it this way: Love Ulster marchers don't drive Dublin-registered beamers. But it was Dublin-registered cars that were vandalised, robbed and burnt. They were attacked, not for being Orangemen's cars, but for being symbolic of everything the perpetrators may aspire to but will probably never achieve - money, status, prestige, whatever.

What started off as a politically-motivated counter-demonstration to an intensely provocative political march rapidly degenerated into a more generalised free-for-all. The rioters simply took advantage of the usual cack-handed policing of public events - be they sporting or political - in this country.

The way Saurday descended into mayhem showed an appalling lack of foresight on the part of the authorities. They should've seen it coming but they didn't. Whether that was a deliberate oversight, or simply down to congenital stupidity, is another argument.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Does Dublin need a parades commission in light of this past weekend.. the Reclaim the Streets protest etc. ?

[Dodge]

No. Two in a few years does not need more tax money spent on it. What it needs is a strong Dept. of Justice

[pete]

The march was not an Orange Parade. It was a legal protest that the irish authorities knew about well in advance. They could easily have choosen a route that did not go through a building site.

If anyone had proof that an inflamatory picture was to be displayed please post it here otherwise stop mentioning rumours (see forum rules).

I fail to understand how anyone could be offended by the unionist protest on saturday. Please explain this to me as i do not understand.

:confused:

[WeAreRovers]

On Questions and Answers tonight, an invitation has been extended to FAIR by the panelists to come back down to Dublin and have their march. Jeffrey Donaldson has expressed some reservations towards it.

Good to see Donaldson and his mates not getting any joy with the the Q & A audience. Despite his bleating about victims and poor old Unionists and Bowman's softly softly approach, the audience didn't fall for it.

The only person to get applause was Susan McKay when she mentioned Drumcree. The very strong feeling I'm getting from talking to lots of people fronm different backgrounds and of different ages is that Dublin people did not want this march. We were never asked or consulted and mayhem ensued.

McDowell and the media have called this one wrong - just look at today's Irish Times, blaming the Ultras for Saturday's trouble. :rolleyes:

KOH

[pete]

The only person to get applause was Susan McKay when she mentioned Drumcree. The very strong feeling I'm getting from talking to lots of people fronm different backgrounds and of different ages is that Dublin people did not want this march. We were never asked or consulted and mayhem ensued.

That shows up Dublin people to be unaccomadating bunch. If you not able to accomadate a victims protest then how can you operate a United Irealnd with 1 million unionists? I disagree anyway as most people don't see what the fuss is & acknowledge the scumbags don't represent anyone.

[Macy]

The only person to get applause was Susan McKay when she mentioned Drumcree. The very strong feeling I'm getting from talking to lots of people fronm different backgrounds and of different ages is that Dublin people did not want this march. We were never asked or consulted and mayhem ensued.
I don't want RSF, or various religious nutters gathering outside the GPO whenever they fill the need to rant their poison. I don't feel it gives me the right to riot and loot.

How many protesters out of the population of Dublin? Most people from Dublin, and the rest of Ireland, really didn't give that much of shít about the march going ahead, and I dare say the vast majority would've preferred that it passed off peacefully and they all fooked off with nothing to make political capital out of.

[WeAreRovers]

That shows up Dublin people to be unaccomadating bunch. If you not able to accomadate a victims protest then how can you operate a United Irealnd with 1 million unionists? I disagree anyway as most people don't see what the fuss is & acknowledge the scumbags don't represent anyone.

It wasn't a victims march. No amount of spin can change that. It was a deliberately provocative quasi-paramilitary Loyalist march through our main thouroughfare, yards from where dozens of people were murdered by these people's fellow travellers.

Bear in mind that Love Ulster marches are banned from Belfast City Centre by the PSNI and Belfast City Council. There's a reason for that.

KOH

[Dodge]

And read jebus posts, it wasn't purely Dublin folk there.

bTW Pete the link to the photo carrying story is on this thread. Organiser said "he couldn't guarentee" it wouldn't be there. Obvious politik speak for "damn right it would be there."

[dcfcsteve]

No, its just less valid than those who live here.

So let me get this straight. The validity of someone's views, and the strength of the arguement they present to support those views, is based NOT upon the quality of the opinions they present, the evidence they provide to support them, and thereby the overall strength of their arguement - but has more to do with where they are geographically located at the particular time that they make that arguement ?? :confused:

So the arguements of an uninformed idiot based in Dublin giving a factless rant has more validity than my own arguements will ever have - no matter how strongly I present my arguement, and no matter how incontravertible the facts are upon which it is based - purely because I happen to be based in London for this stage of my life ? You might want to take a minute to read through this again.

I am Irish born and bred. Like millions of fellow Irish people have done for centuries, I left Ireland at the age of 19 - and since then have lived in various places throughout the world. Throughout my years of 'exile', however - I have kept myself incredibly well-informed and up-to-date on Irish affairs. My personal book collection would put the 'Irish History and Current Affairs' section of any Easons book shop to shame. I read a number of Irish newspapers (Derry Journal, Derry News, Irish Indo, Irish Times) each and every single week. I receive ALL Irish TV channels in London, and watch them daily. Most of my core group of friends in London are primarily from Ireland - north and south. All but one member of my family still lives in Ireland, and I also make very regular vists back to the country as well (5 times in the last 5 months, for example - visiting Derry, Donegal, Dublin, Belfast and Cork). Yet despite all of this, my opinions on Ireland are invalidated by the fact that I currently live in London. They're much less valid than any ill-informed Irish-based idiot who never picks up a paper, watches nothing other than Celebrity Love Island on TV3, rarely leaves his home town, and who just hangs around with other ill-informed buffons talking sh!te rather than discussing the issues of the day. Or to put it even more starkly - you're asserting that the validity of a recent Polish immigrant's views on Ireland are more powerful than mine, simply because he's in Dublin at the time that he makes them. Just because somneone has an Irish address - that instantly imparts monumental wisdom upon them regarding all things Ireland. And just because I currently have an English address - that means that I can say nothing of any value on the country at all.

I'm sorry Dodge - but there is no other conclusion to draw from your comments other than the fact that you are an idiot.

I would confidently take on 99.9% of the population of Ireland in a discussion/debate on ANY issue regarding Ireland - ANY - as I am that confident that my level of information and my understanding of the issues would out-weigh theirs. Yet that doesn't matter - as I'm currently residing outside our nation's hallowed borders.

The validity of someone's arguement and viewpoint in a debate, Dodge, is based upon the following - in order of priority :

1) Their level of knowledge on the matter.
2) Their degree of understanding of the issue concerned.
3) The facts they present to support what they are saying.
4) The clarity and power with which they present their entire arguement.
5) Their direct experience of the matter in hand.

Where you happen to be residing at the point at which they make their viewpoint/arguement does not alter these key ingredients - and therefiore does NOT in any way alter the validity of their arguement. Were you not so thoroughly rejectionist of views contrary to your own, you may have realised this before now......


Similarly your views on the North and in particular Derry are more valid than mine

But not because I'm from there. Because I have a greater knowledge and understanding of the issues affecting Northern Ireland and Derry than you do. Full stop. Meanwhile, I would never claim to have more valid opinions on certain Irish issues than people like, for example, Bertie Ahern - even though he lives in Dublin - or leading Irish academic Marianne Elliott - even though she's been based in liverpool for very many years. Hell - I've no doubt there are people out there who's knowledge and understanding of the Northern Irish situation beats mine hands down - yet they just happen to be English. That doesn't make their viewpoint or arguements any less valid than mine.....


"the right to free speech is less important than keeping the peace IMO"

So if I burn your house down because what you've written in this thread has annoyed/offended me, then the correct thing for the Gardai to do would be to ban you from posting on here in future - least it cause any further disturbance of the peace......? :rolleyes:

[klein4]

Its like Platos story of the cave(look it up in Easons;) ). All your information is second hand. Ireland has changed a lot in the last few years. You cant beat first hand knowledge of a situation. People who were in Dublin and saw what went on have more right to comment than British people living in London pontificating on something they saw on the telly.

[liam88]

All your information is second hand. Ireland has changed a lot in the last few years. You cant beat first hand knowledge of a situation. People who were in Dublin and saw what went on have more right to comment than British people living in London pontificating on something they saw on the telly.
The riot in Dublin was nothing compared to what that comment is about to cause :D

[Dodge]

So the arguements of an uninformed idiot based in Dublin giving a factless rant has more validity than my own arguements will ever have - no matter how strongly I present my arguement, and no matter how incontravertible the facts are upon which it is based - purely because I happen to be based in London for this stage of my life ? You might want to take a minute to read through this again.
As you sometimes do Steve, you missed the point entirely. Of course someone's knowledge counts but do you honestly think you know more about the feelings of Dublin people to this March (and in realtion to the Dublin bombings) than I or others who have posted. You don't. You may not have heard/read about in the media because the media by and large ignored Saturdays march, it was however "common knowledge" that RSF were rallying their idiot supporters (and all assimilated thugs) and that the potential for trouble was huge.


my opinions on Ireland are invalidated by the fact that I currently live in London.Firstly you mentioned Ireland. I talked about Dublin. The dublin of today. And yes I'm fairly sure that there are polish people living here who are more in tune with the dublin of today than most Irish living abroad, and yes their opinion is more valid as they are the people dealing with it on a day to day basis.


I'm sorry Dodge - but there is no other conclusion to draw from your comments other than the fact that you are an idiot. That may well be the case but I fail to see how you reach that conclusion from my posts on this subject


The validity of someone's arguement and viewpoint in a debate, Dodge, is based upon the following - in order of priority Again you are making massive assumptions. In no way did I state my "criteria" for comment, however locality is a huge one.


That doesn't make their viewpoint or arguements any less valid than mine.....We are not talking about history here, we're talking about a city as it works and lives. There was no literature predicting what would happen on Saturday but it was obvious


So if I burn your house down because what you've written in this thread has annoyed/offended me, then the correct thing for the Gardai to do would be to ban you from posting on here in future - least it cause any further disturbance of the peace......? That’s a hugely illogical leap you've made there and there's no way my post even hinted at that possible outcome.

Look, you obviously taken offence to my last post. I stand by everything I said. If you want to answer me again, PM me. I'm fairly sure people here are bored with us. (and as mod I can't let it get off topic)

[dcfcsteve]

Its like Platos story of the cave(look it up in Easons;) ). All your information is second hand. Ireland has changed a lot in the last few years. You cant beat first hand knowledge of a situation. People who were in Dublin and saw what went on have more right to comment than British people living in London pontificating on something they saw on the telly.

OK. So tell me the comments etc I have made on this thread that are now 'out of date' or 'second hand' ? :confused:

The core story of what happened on Saturday is incontravertible - regardless of whether I was there to see it with my own eyes, or through the eyes of a TV lens like the vast majority of the people of Dublin and the rest of Ireland saw it.

And interesting to see you take Dodge's thought fascism and narrow it even further. So now only those people who were there on the day to directly and personally witness everything that went on can have a valid opinion on it ??? Shut up An Taoiseach - your view is irrelevant on all of this, as you just went there...... :rolleyes:

Why don't you just come out and say what you really mean - that NO-ONE other than you is allowed to have a valid opinion or arguement on this issue...

And as an aside - exactly how much knowledge and experience of anti-orange/loyalist protests do you have, given your oh-so-strong position on this particular issue.....?

[jebus]

Can't remember who said what to me after my post but here goes my responses;

I won't be giving any of my pics to the Gardai for the simple reason that I'm a coward and am afraid that if any of them were used and my name was found I'd be in a spot of bother, also I've never been one to tell tales.

To the arguments of freedom of speech I'll say this. I'm not against freedom of speech at all, but I do believe it has its limits. My points about Al-Queda, the Nazis and general white supremecy groups still stands in my opinion. All of those groups have wronged and murdered citizens of New York, Amsterdam and Harlem (not to mention many more places), so why should they be allowed to glorify their mis-deeds by marching past the people they have wronged? Surely this is a reasonable argument, that only the unreasonable Extreme Left Wing brigade would have a problem with? So why should a group such as the UVF, who only recently enough murdered innocent Irish people, be allowed to flaunt this in our faces? The answer of, because of freedom of speech is, in my opinion, a completely bull****, washing your hands of the worlds problems answer.

[Dodge]

Spot on jebus.

[klein4]

"given your oh-so-strong position on this particular issue"

I wasnt aware I expressed an oh so strong opinion on this issue so you may get off that high horse of yours.

"Why don't you just come out and say what you really mean - that NO-ONE other than you is allowed to have a valid opinion or arguement on this issue..."

If you want an example of "thought fascism" (as you so well put it in the style of Rick from the Young Ones).....look no further than above.

[jebus]

well they are different countries so we cant really use that as reference point

Why's that? Read my post above on why I feel its a justified reference point, although I still can't see how we can't use human history as a reference point.


also isnt the nazi party banned and there for its against the law for them to come together in any capacity , Al-Queda support groups meet and march all the time through new york , london etc etc same with the white suppremacy groups ,so i dont see your point .they are alloud because the US and england have freedom of speech we dont . we have freedom of speach as long as you only say what we want you to say .

And you're living in which world? America and Britain have freedom of speech? Have you not looked at the conservative world we live in? All media in America especially is censored, jesus they even kicked Dan Rather off CBS News for validly questioning George Bush Jnr.'s military record. Absoultely ridiculous point, and what little respect I had for your opinion on this just flew straight out the window.

Also could you please show me pics and news reports on the Al-Queda support groups' marches through New York? Complete with banners saying we support Bin Laden/Al-Queda/9-11, because frankly you're making up **** there. And its true that white supremecists march, but always through pre-dominantly white areas, and guess what they also hold miny to major demonstrations that often fall into violence as well!?!? Hard to believe that no other country has ever had a riot but its true!! And if you believe that a ban on Nazi parties coming together stops them from doing so.....well I don't know how to state it any further that I think you haven't a clue what you're talking about


i get an impression from your story ( i hope im wrong ) that you seem to condone the voilence the line in paticular that caught my attention was "After the Loyalists had left why keep tearing the city apart and attacking even more IRISH people?" like it was ok to do while they were there .

I don't condone the violence at all, but the reason why the Republicans were there and decided to form blockades out of whatever they could get their hands on was to stop the UVF, oh sorry Love Ulster, from marching down O'Connell St. What I was questioning was why this group that claims to love Ireland would continue to attack Irish people and destroy the Irish capital even after their objective had been achieved. It was just a way of me highlighting what sort of non-Nationalist thugs actually were involved in this riot, a point which went straight over your head it seems, I don't know I thought it was straight forward enough.
[/QUOTE]

[Dodge]

Right lads, all of you. Stop getting so personal with the posts (and yeah I'm included too)

[Dotsy]

I've lived in Dublin for the best part of 40 years. I remember the Dublin & Monaghan bombings vividly (the sister of my primary school teacher at the time was killed in Dublin). The march on Saturday didn't offend me or any of my friends and relatives living here that I have talked to. The general consensus among those I discussed it with is that there were victims on both sides and that the march served no purpose, but they had a right to March.

People also had the right to ignore it or protest peacefully if they felt inclined to. With the exception of a small group of barstool republicans and couple of hundred ****ed up knackers who took the opportunity to have a go at the guards and do a spot of looting that's what the vast majority of Dubs did. I think that is pretty obvious to anyone who has read the papers or watched the news over the last few days.

If there were huge numbers of Dubs that were offended at this march where were they on Saturday. They certainly were not in O' Connell Street.

[Poor Student]

I don't condone the violence at all, but the reason why the Republicans were there and decided to form blockades out of whatever they could get their hands on was to stop the UVF, oh sorry Love Ulster, from marching down O'Connell St.
I think this sort of thinking is a huge problem. I don't mean to quote young Liam as a good example as he's a good fella but he said something earlier along the lines of "Thank God they didn't reach the GPO". This kind of territorialism is still etched into the Irish mindset. We laugh at Paisley talking about not giving an inch but some people are not prepared literally to give Unionists an inch either. People may feel quite passionately about such things and I do not mean to offend them but this kind of thinking will see no progress on this island. Now perhaps that's what people want, if so then just come out and say it like Paisley, if not then cop on and see how your actions match up to what you profess and claim to desire.

[jebus]

I think this sort of thinking is a huge problem. I don't mean to quote young Liam as a good example as he's a good fella but he said something earlier along the lines of "Thank God they didn't reach the GPO". This kind of territorialism is still etched into the Irish mindset. We laugh at Paisley talking about not giving an inch but some people are not prepared literally to give Unionists an inch either. People may feel quite passionately about such things and I do not mean to offend them but this kind of thinking will see no progress on this island. Now perhaps that's what people want, if so then just come out and say it like Paisley, if not then cop on and see how your actions match up to what you profess and claim to desire.

I'm sorry but if you're going to cut up a paragraph of mine to use as a negative point would you mind leaving the rest of what I said in there, otherwise it comes across as something I believe in, when I was using it to talk about the Repblican rioters train of thought

[Poor Student]

Sorry Jebus, trying to be economical with the new rule.:o

[pete]

I'm not against freedom of speech at all, but I do believe it has its limits. My points about Al-Queda, the Nazis and general white supremecy groups still stands in my opinion.


Are you for real? Do you read what you typing? Do you not see the contradiction there? If the UVF were portesting down O'Connell st the gardai would not have allowed it. name one thing the unionists did that was illegal on saturday? Do you support the right of the IRA to have marches glorifying their comrades deaths? Did they not kill people?

:rolleyes:

[Dodge]

its obvious he doesn't. But Love Ulster is pseudonym for UVF/UDA and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a bubble (and the garda did allow it)

[jebus]

Are you for real? Do you read what you typing? Do you not see the contradiction there? If the UVF were portesting down O'Connell st the gardai would not have allowed it. name one thing the unionists did that was illegal on saturday? Do you support the right of the IRA to have marches glorifying their comrades deaths? Did they not kill people?

:rolleyes:

Once again one of ye are assuming things, in that I support the IRA. Simple fact if any of you cared to ask before you do your little :rolleyes: thing is that I don't, I also think they are murdering scumbags, and I wouldn't agree with them marching either. Does that clear it up?

And the Unionists didn't do anything illegal last saturday true, but thats hardly relevent, unless they had actually formed last saturday. Sad truth is that they've been around for a while and have caused various crimes in their time. have you forgotten that or do you just judge terrorist groups* on what they have done in the past week or so?

*and if you're going to pretend that Love Ulster is anything other than a glorified UVF support group then don't bother replying to this thanks very much

[jebus]

Sorry Jebus, trying to be economical with the new rule.:o

No bother, I'm just getting attacked on all sides by certain people so I'm trying to watch what people are taking up from what I say

[Dodge]

No bother, I'm just getting attacked on all sides by certain people so I'm trying to watch what people are taking up from what I say
Nah, just the anto1208 and pete axis of evil :p

[Speranza]

Pete, you claim that the march was not an Orange march. If so why did the organisers feel the need to invite marching bands? What was their role in the demo?

IMO the role of the bands was to provoe the type of people who looted and riot and to use the actions of this lunatic fringe of Republicanism to tranish the agenda of Republicanism as a whole. This was not a protest it was a direct plea from Unionism to Nationalists to cause mayhem which could be said to be typical of any future 32 county Ireland.

The bands, Willie Frazier not promising that pictures of the Dublin bomber would be carried, the flags, the rhetoric.....this was all meant to get the people of Dublin furious and baying for blood.

[Marked Man]

So let me get this straight. The validity of someone's views, and the strength of the arguement they present to support those views, is based NOT upon the quality of the opinions they present, the evidence they provide to support them, and thereby the overall strength of their arguement - but has more to do with where they are geographically located at the particular time that they make that arguement ?? :confused:
:


Didn't you imply in an earlier post that the opinions of those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry were not valid?

[Block G Raptor]

those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry

| would like to chalenge those who unfurled the banner to name even one of the victims who died on bloody sunday then we'd see the validity of their opinion

[Dotsy]

The bands, Willie Frazier not promising that pictures of the Dublin bomber would be carried, the flags, the rhetoric.....this was all meant to get the people of Dublin furious and baying for blood.

The people of Dublin weren't furious and baying for blood. The people of Dublin showed that they are grown up and secure enough in our own identity to rise above any perceived provocation by the marchers.

It was mainly a crowd of 200/300 little hooligans who used it a perfect excuse for have a go at the guards and get their hands on some new tracksuits without paying. This should have been anticipated by the gardai management and dealt with appropriately without letting it get out of hand.

[Speranza]

I didn't claim the people of Dublin rose to the provocation. I said that the Love Ulster group did everything in their power to bring about a situation where the riots e.t.c. would occur weather it be 100's or 1000's they didn't really care. One stone throwing incident would have meant success for their agenda.

[dcfcsteve]

Didn't you imply in an earlier post that the opinions of those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry were not valid?

In the full context of my statement, yes ! It was to show that the idiots holding up a Bloody Sunday banner with their faces masked are highly unlikely to have any genuine knowledge, understanding, or concern for the event. If they were genuinely concerned about Bloody Sunday - then why did they feel the need to have their identities masked whilst they unfurled the banner ? Let's not kid ourselves here - they were just hijacking a nationalist 'grievance' to have a go at the Love Ulster lot. I didn't say their views were invalid unless they had actually been eyes witnesses to Bloody Sunday, or in the city at the time that they produced their banner - which is exactly the type of nonesense that is being touted on here as the only way to have a valid opinion !

If they were genuinely concerned about Bloody Sunday, they could make the effort of going on one of the annual commemoration marches that occurs in the city, for example, or visit the monument in Rossville Street. But i doubt they really give a feck about Bloody Sunday. As Block G said - they'd struggle to name you a single person who got shot that day. I reckon they'd even struggle to tell you the year, let alone the actual date....

[Marked Man]

| would like to chalenge those who unfurled the banner to name even one of the victims who died on bloody sunday then we'd see the validity of their opinion

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

[pete]

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

Have you been unveiling Posters with your identify hidden? Have you attacked any US parades recently & gone on a rampage. Its fairly obvious now that RSF used the unionists protest to encourage local scumbags to attack the gardai (of the state they do not recognise but hid under its protection in the past) & people on the other side that they have bigotted opinions of.

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st. There was no peaceful protest by locals. RSF just used this as excuse to import their bigotry to the Republic. Most people in the Republic do not want anything to do with that.

[1 9 2 8]

The title of this thread should be changed it wasn't Republicans rioting it was local teenagers attacking the cops

[Dodge]

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st.
I;d disagree with that pete. I'd guess quite a lot of people didn't want to happen.

99.999% weren't involved in the riots. Don't think that only those involved inn the riots were against this. And don't think all those against it were republicans either

[Soper]

All I know is that right now some chaps are enjoying free Nike trainers

[Block G Raptor]

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

Thats a fair point to a degree but I think that anyone with a real interest in the history of this country(particularly the "troubles") would have no problem naming most if not all of the victims of one of the worst cases of mass murder this country has ever seen

[klein4]

I have a degree in history and cant name them...

[pete]

If people disagreed with the protest march enough they could have had a peaceful protest. Since there seems to have been no protest then i can assume they didn't care enough about it.

Most people are bored of the constant bickering my minorities on both sides in Northern Ireland & don't want it imported down here.

[klein4]

Most people are bored of the constant bickering by minorities on both sides in Northern Ireland & don't want it imported down here.
I would say that is the view of the majority down here.

[pete]

What really happened...

[jebus]

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st. There was no peaceful protest by locals.

Thats not true at all, most people I've talked to in Limerick and Cork about it anyway didn't want to see the UVF marching down O'Connell St. They also didn't want to see the RSF tearing the streets apart but thats besides the point. I reckon a good 50% of people wouldn't want Unionists marching through Dublin, whilst about 25% would be undecided (i.e. don't care either way). Just a rough estimate on people from work, college, friends etc. that I've talked to about it.

and I have to ask if you were there on Saturday or are you just going on what you've read or seen in the media? Because if you actually made your way up to the church (i think it was a church anyway, certainly looked like one) where the UVF/LoveUlster parade had gathered behind the guards then you would have seen plenty of people peacefully demonstrating against the march. They held placards about UVF attrocities and stood, for the most part quietly, to see what was going to happen. The most you got out of them was a couple of Rebublican chants and a cheerio chant when the UVF were being boarded back on to their buses.

If you don't consider that peaceful then I'd like to point out that the innocents of LoveUlster played a few Unionist songs and shouted back some anti-Irish bile at the protestors at times.

[Macy]

Thats not true at all, most people I've talked to in Limerick and Cork about it anyway didn't want to see the UVF marching down O'Connell St. They also didn't want to see the RSF tearing the streets apart but thats besides the point. I reckon a good 50% of people wouldn't want Unionists marching through Dublin, whilst about 25% would be undecided (i.e. don't care either way). Just a rough estimate on people from work, college, friends etc. that I've talked to about it.
That's all very well, but how many in Dublin or elsewhere were arsed to protest? Not very many were that put out they felt the need to protest/ riot/ loot (delete as applicable). Of course people are going to say they don't want it now - but I'd say many would say because of the hassle the thick republicans* caused not because of the rally itself.

*They're thick because they were played like the lambeg they were trying to stop by the unionists. Really helped sell the republic as non-sectarian state there lads, really brought forward a United Ireland.

[Kingdom]

I've been reluctant to post on the topic because there seems to be little debate, as opposed to the usual rhethoric spouted from the Republicans. I wouldn't consider myself to be Republican or Nationalist, as I've not done enough research on the topic, but I certainly would sympathise with what happened to Northern Catholics during the troubles though. I think I typed what I meant to say.

Anyway my take on the whole sorry issue would be this. Republicans are all for a 32 county united Ireland. Fair enough. It is Ireland we're talking about. But for a 32 county state to appear , the Unionist/loyalist/Protestant community will have to be taken on. Their customs and ways of life will also have to assimilated into this "ideal" republican state. As seems to be the case in recent years, the Ulster Nationalists/Republicans seem to be willing to concede more group than the Ulster Protestants/Loyalists, and this march by an Ulster group, was a way of showing to the world, WE (Republicans) ARE THE BIGGER PEOPLE. This is as clear as day to me. It would have shown the world that these people and their beliefs can be integrated into our society, and we can interact. Because in a democratic, 32 county republic encompassing all creeds, colours and religions, this will have to happen.

But now as a result of what happened at the weekend, the yobs or Republicans or whoever that protested violently, and more to the point attacked their own kind, never mind the people they were opposed to, showed the city up as full of bigots.

I've seen loads of comments (not just on these boards) about "those fcukers shouldn't be walking past the GPO" or "Orange b@stards" and the like. My feelings toward the images in the papers and some of the frankly stupid posts on this forum is nothing short of rage.
Half of the cnuts (that supposedly are the next wave of republican youth) caught in the papers are the same fcukers who wouldn't think twice of having a p!ss on the side of the GPO, those abusing the marchers as "proddie b@stards" or whatever, how many of those would be in a position to question another persons faith or religion? Very few I would imagine.
The vast majority of people in this country are afraid to express their own opinion and just follow along like bloody lemmings when things like this surface. It was interesting to read in the papers that I read, the only people referencced to questioning the actions of the mob were the elderly.

Perhaps this was more of a rant, than a properly composed post, but when I see people claiming that 90% of the country didn't want to see the march, I had to post something. The vast majority in this country , in my opinion as I'm too humble to claim that I would represent the voice of 4 million odd people, are completely indifferent to whether or not an Ulster group attempt to march peacefully through a few streets of out capital. It's a pity the Republicans couldn't see it that way, because in a strange twist of fate, if there long-term goal comes to fruition (32 county Republic) this type if march could legally happen every week.

Ps I'm not a Unionist.

K.

[pete]

I wouldn't consider myself to be Republican or Nationalist, as I've not done enough research on the topic, but I certainly would sympathise with what happened to Northern Catholics during the troubles though. I think I typed what I meant to say.


I think the vast majority of citizens of the republic are republicans


Republican; a belief in a constitutional system without a hereditary element.

Unfortunately the word has been hijacked by the few to mean something undesirable.

:(