First Squad

[Kingdom]

What has Ireland done wrong?

He went back to his club after being dicked around by Kerr when promised a game? Why call him over if your just gonna make him sit in the stands? Plus his first ever interview was with the Guardian on Saturday so it's not as if he kept on banging about it. The papers and media had a good go at him but he kept his mouth shut. He stated on Saturday he wants to play for Ireland and is committed, good luck to him because he looks a good player.

So basically when you're not gonna get a game you have every right to leave a squad? If that's the case then what is the point in having a 22/23 man squad.

Also then if his first ever interview was with the Guardian last Saturday then a lot of papers in the past 5/6 months have been quoting him by mistake I suppose. Not a week went by without something about his situation with the national team brought up in some paper or another. I read at least one article where he was talking about the choices he had internationally. I just felt he was punching above his weight for an inexperienced, albeit talented, youth international.

[robbie_B]

Stan looks to parentage rule, youth


January 16, 2006

New Republic of Ireland manager Steve Staunton admits he will look at blooding younger players, and taking advantage of the parentage rule, in a bid to add to his pool of players for the forthcoming European Championship qualification campaign.

Staunton was unveiled to the national media at a press conference at Dublin’s Mansion House on Monday morning.

And in addition to monitoring the form of younger players, the new man in charge admitted he would consider pursuing players who qualify for Ireland through Uefa’s ancestry rules, a policy pursued with vigour in the past by former Irish boss Jack Charlton.

Staunton said: “You saw at the weekend, the players that are coming through. Young [Stephen] Ireland at Manchester City and Joey O’Brien at Bolton are just two.

“We’re also definitely going to look down the “granny” rule, because I think that’s vital for us. If we can get three, four or five players, then that would be a beneficial to us.”

[pete]

Its crazy to suggest some very young inexperienced players who have had a few senior games at club level as senior international options. They should be playing U21 for a couple of years although with Given in charge they will probably get worse...

Its only suggesting young players in positions like forward where the squad very thin on options.

[colster]

Its crazy to suggest some very young inexperienced players who have had a few senior games at club level as senior international options. They should be playing U21 for a couple of years although with Given in charge they will probably get worse...

Its only suggesting young players in positions like forward where the squad very thin on options.

Robbie Keane, Damien Duff etc etc did not play U21 IIRC.

[Kingdom]

Its crazy to suggest some very young inexperienced players who have had a few senior games at club level as senior international options. They should be playing U21 for a couple of years although with Given in charge they will probably get worse...

Its only suggesting young players in positions like forward where the squad very thin on options.

Not necessarily so Pete. Van Basten called up some very young and heralded lads for the Dutch squad when he took over and he did well enough.

I was under the impression that Joey O'Brien had played quite a few games more in the Premiership than Stephen Ireland. The Ipswich lads would seem to be playing week in week out in the Championship so they should be given a seeing to.
Also Alan Quinn should be given a proper chance to shine. He's played well for us every chance he's been given (Holland springs to mind) and never was really called upon competitively.

Oh and was just thinking of this earlier....... what if Richard Sadlier hadn't got injured? Oh woe is me.

[pete]

Robbie Keane, Damien Duff etc etc did not play U21 IIRC.

Yeah but they were clearly a class apart for Ireland in position we hadn't many players for.

Suggesting 17-18 year olds that have played a few Championship games to replace experienced senior internationals doesn't make sense. The only players i'd include in Duff/Keane likeness are Ireland & Doyle (we have few forward options & he no flash in the pan).

[colster]

Yeah but they were clearly a class apart for Ireland in position we hadn't many players for.

Suggesting 17-18 year olds that have played a few Championship games to replace experienced senior internationals doesn't make sense. The only players i'd include in Duff/Keane likeness are Ireland & Doyle (we have few forward options & he no flash in the pan).

They turned out to be yes but Robbie Keane was only at Wolves when he got a call up so why not Ireland, O'Brien or Garvan?

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't go as far as saying the Ipswich lads would be ready but if a midfielder is good enough to be instrumental in the defeat of Manchester United then he ought to be good enough for an Ireland squad. More's the point, what would playing under Don Givens teach him?

Likewise Joey O'Brien who can help keep a clean sheet and get an assist against teams like Arsenal.

Personally I think Joey Barton has been a great help to Ireland. He's on great form and is full of running. The only other player in our squad who can do that type of role is Steven Reid. Maybe O'Shea who I personally think has been playing very well since Keane left and is showing signs of actually being very two-footed. I'd have some reservations about a Kav / Ireland partnership though I'm a fan of Kav.

I think Ireland's best work is done in an advanced position. I lost count of the number of times he released the front two on Saturday. As I discussed with someone on this board only last week, you could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times our central midfielders released our front two in the WHOLE of the last campaign. That's why I think he's ready for inclusion in the senior squad.

Pete - I presume it was Ireland & O'Brien you were referring to.

[Kingdom]

If I was to pick a 23 man squad on the form currently I'd have:

Shay Given
Paddy Kenny
Graham Stack

Steve Finnan
Richard Dunne
Andy O'Brien
John O'Shea
Ian Harte
Paul McShane/Paddy McCarthy
Alan Maybury
Joey O'Brien

Graham Kavanagh
Alan Quinn
Stephen Ireland
Steven Reid
Kevin Kilbane
Liam Miller
Andy Reid
Damien Duff

Robbie Keane
Stephen Elliot
Kevin Doyle
Clinton Morrison

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Don't think too many people could argue with that?

[tonycuna]

If I was to pick a 23 man squad on the form currently I'd have:

Shay Given
Paddy Kenny
...
...

I would suggest Aiden McGeady, but I don't know many things about Kevin Doyle, to compare him to the celtic man :confused:
Apart from this, I'm agree with u
Many many faith in Steve, c'mon

[dancinpants]

I don't agree. For every Doyle there is an endless stream of Glen Crowe's. The EL simply isn't good enough and Doyle is just the exception that proves the rule.

I'm not saying that the Eircom League is drippin' with talent, but there are a few there that would be good enough for international inclusion - when Doyle moved to Reading, there wouldn't be too many fans of the eL that would have even classed him as the best player in the league.

[Bald Student]

I'm not saying that the Eircom League is drippin' with talent, but there are a few there that would be good enough for international inclusion - when Doyle moved to Reading, there wouldn't be too many fans of the eL that would have even classed him as the best player in the league.I think it would be a good idea for Stan to organise a 'B' international some time before the summer. It would be the fastest way of looking at a big number of potential players, a few in the eL a few in the lower english divisions (& the SPL) and a few youth players in the english reserve league.

[Superhoops]

If I was to pick a 23 man squad on the form currently I'd have:

Shay Given
Paddy Kenny
Graham Stack

Steve Finnan
Richard Dunne
Andy O'Brien
John O'Shea
Ian Harte
Paul McShane/Paddy McCarthy
Alan Maybury
Joey O'Brien

Graham Kavanagh
Alan Quinn
Stephen Ireland
Steven Reid
Kevin Kilbane
Liam Miller
Andy Reid
Damien Duff

Robbie Keane
Stephen Elliot
Kevin Doyle
Clinton Morrison

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Don't think too many people could argue with that?
Would go along with that with possibly only one exception (if we are looking towards the future) that is Stephen Kelly for Alan Maybury. Maybury is solid enough and Kelly has a lot to learn but if he can get a good game or two under his belt at Spurs, then he is worth a shout.

[Superhoops]

O Shea was one of Man Utds better players Saturday, he looked more composed than Fletcher in the centre of midfield. Fergie likes his versalitilty, he can play in 4 or 5 positions for the team and he doesn't let the team down. Ok he's no world beater but if you want a steady Eddie he is your man.
Lets agree to disagree about Saturday's performance.

I have expressed a view here before that John O'Shea is filling the role that Philip Neville played for years at Man.U., jack of all trades and master of none. MU pay his wages and can use him how they like but using him like they do does nothing for his place on Ireland's team.

O'Shea has played RB, LB, central defender, central midfield and left midfield for MU this season. If our full squad was available, IMO O'Shea would not be first choice in any of those positions and until he nails down one regular position at United or somewhere else, then he wont be a first choice choice for us in any position. If he ends up playing regularly in central midfield for MU then that is the place he should be considered for with Ireland and not just stuck in at Left Back for the sake of it. We should be looking for better than 'steady Eddies'.

One of Brian Kerr's mistakes was that he made a place for O'Shea regardless, as evidenced in the last game against Switzerland.

I want to see O'Shea doing well for us, but his performances for us have been generally disappointing.

[adamcarr]

I'm not saying that the Eircom League is drippin' with talent, but there are a few there that would be good enough for international inclusion - when Doyle moved to Reading, there wouldn't be too many fans of the eL that would have even classed him as the best player in the league.

Id agree with ya there. Danny Murphy is definately in the top three wing backs we have but because he plays eL, **** him!:rolleyes:

[Qwerty]

Didn't get to see the news conference but I did see this in the Guardian about the eL front:

"I want someone within the eircom League scouting for me, keeping an eye on things. They will be looking at individuals and I will be coming over to see games under the recommendation of a trustworthy source over here.

- this sounds a bit more than the usual tokenism? Lets start the counter and see how many games he attends :)

[Stuttgart88]

I think it would be a good idea for Stan to organise a 'B' international some time before the summer. It would be the fastest way of looking at a big number of potential players, a few in the eL a few in the lower english divisions (& the SPL) and a few youth players in the english reserve league.
I agree. And I should have clarified the long post earlier with a list of players in "contention": I'd expect a "B" international squad to be taken from this list too which was my main thinking when I put that list together over Christmas on a spreadheet.

[Stuttgart88]

What would people think of Steve Carr or Gary Kelly returning? Wasn't Kelly a close ally of Staunton's?

[tetsujin1979]

What would people think of Steve Carr or Gary Kelly returning? Wasn't Kelly a close ally of Staunton's?
Less of a problem with Kelly than Carr, but should we really be looking to bring either back when we have Finnan and Stephen Kelly looking to nail down the full back slots?
If either did come back, I would hope they would play at right full, with Finnan given the left full slot.

[tiktok]

I think that under Kerr we had two years where there was no serious effort to have a look at upcoming talent, he wasted friendlies IMO.

I'd actually play a relatively inexperienced side in the upcoming friendlies. Losing them doesn't matter a fcuk, seeing what we have at our disposal does.

I'd pick a big squad so that everyone gets a chance to meet up, but I'd talk to the more senior players and explain to them that I was giving some of the more inexperienced players a chance.

The TEAM I'd like to see starting from this point of view is....

Kenny

Kelly O'Brien Dunne D.Murphy

O'Brien Ireland S.Reid McGeady

Elliot Doyle

[Kingdom]

As I suggested in a thread a few months ago, I think now is the time to introduce a squad similar to the Scottish Futura squad. It is fairly easy to dismiss straight away but think of it this way: too many of our underage players disappear off the radar after the U21's. This would be a squad where those uneligible for the U21's and some of the eL players (Heary, Danny Murphy) that need/deserve a run out could be selected without the fear of making a hames of it.

Also I'd stick with Maybury ahead of Stephen Kelly for the moment, purely on the amount of playing time each gets currently, while I'll be honest I'd forgotten about McGeady. I'd have himself there or thereabouts.

Nothing to say Staunton will go for the tried and tested formation. There's no point in Ireland playing a 4-4-2 if we've got a sh1te right winger and no left full. As we all know its about balance.

[Tenderloins]

Given the current players available to Staunton and those coming through in the Premiership/Championship, it looks as if full back and up front is where the only possibility of Eircom league players being chosen is.
Eoin Heary and Jason Byrne could well be the ELs best chance of players in future squads.

[tiktok]

Given the current players available to Staunton and those coming through in the Premiership/Championship, it looks as if full back and up front is where the only possibility of Eircom league players being chosen is.
Eoin Heary and Jason Byrne could well be the ELs best chance of players in future squads.

IMO Danny Murphy is the best left back currently eligible for Ireland.
I'm sure I'll get slated for that, but he should definitely be getting a shot.

Heary should have gotten the nod 18 months ago

As for not having a right winger, Doyle (and Roy O'Donovan at CCFC) would offer a very good option in that position.

[Tired&Emotional]

I think the B Team is the way to go (ref BaldStudent) as it gives the mgt a free rein to bring in plenty of new faces and experiment. I think senior intl.s are not the place to mess around and make wholesale changes (a lá Eriksson, making 9/10 changes at half time:confused: ).

The senior team needs to be prepared like a well-oiled machine with only a minimal number of changes (injuries & introducing new players serious contenders for a position). They don't get together enough to mix it up too much for friendlies - these should be used to develop tactics and cohesion in the side so when the big games come the players do what they've done in the friendlies but now step in up a gear, or two!

[Stuttgart88]

I think you should be cautious about introducing the young players. By all means get them involved and in some case quickly but they need to be introduced alongside experienced players too.

A few of us have been bankging on recently about "future squads" or "B" internationals. We've so many players of a similar standard, i.e., good but a bit off the standard required by the senior squad, who we should keep involved & motivated, as well as seeing who stands out.

[pete]

...when Doyle moved to Reading, there wouldn't be too many fans of the eL that would have even classed him as the best player in the league.

I know people will say i'm biased but every City fan knew Doyle was a special talent. He was definitely the best eL player in the country when you consider his potential & age. He had excelled at every level he'd played at & was already proven quality U21 player. I think the way he was unaffected bt transfer rumours showed his professionlism.

Jason Byrne would be on list of forwards but not in top 4. He would certainly offer more than people such as Macken & Lee. Heary is quality right back but few players ahead of him. Danny Murphy was quality last season especially in Uefa Cup so be interesting to see if can continue - he'd be worth a go as few quality left back options.

I don't think eL players can really be considered until proven in European club competitions...

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing to say Staunton will go for the tried and tested formation. There's no point in Ireland playing a 4-4-2 if we've got a sh1te right winger and no left full. As we all know its about balance.
I've maintained this all along but got slated by several posters!

I think we're OK for right midfielders. Andy Reid and Duff both play well there and can alternate. Steve Reid, though I prefer him as a CM. Liam Lawrence could be useful on that side if he is picked. I think in due course Roy O'Donovan could get a shot but not necessarily immediately. McGeady can play there too.

Left back has been more of a problem so, as you say, why use one?

As I said earlier, we have an awful lot of players who could conceivably play the "behind the front two" type role: Ireland, A. Reid, McGeady, Duff (in a totally free role) to name a few. If we had a very solid midfield we could enhance our attacking options in this manner. How do we get this solid midfield? Either by playing a narrower 3 man midfield (so 4-3-1-2) so Kav and S. Reid are obvious options. Bolder would be 3-4-1-2 with say, Duff, Kav, S. Reid, A. Reid (or Finnan) with Ireland ahead of them. Dunne, O'Brien and Finnan, or O'Shea, in a 3 man defence. It makes semnse to me anyway!

I thought that any time I've seen Steve Ireland play he gets the front two involved like no other Irish midfielder I've seen in ages. But he is "protected" in a sense by the currently excellent Joey Barton who has the legs to genuinely cover box-to-box efficiently. Steven Reid is the only guy who I think can do this for us. Possibly O'Shea who I think has been good in CM recently.

If you're struggling to break down a stubborn minnow at home (Israel, Albania) or need somethging extra (France, Switzerland) it's a credible option, if even only for 20 mins, which should be practiced IMHO.

Edit - Adding: I suspect the introduction of youth and possible new caps will add to the options this squad has. No longer will the likes of Miller be guaranteed a squad place and others like Quinn should get more of a shot. WRT Doyle as RHM option, I think he's fast becoming a first-choice starter upfront with Robbie. Hopefully Elliott will return to fitness soon. If we can plug the left-back difficulty we should have enough to make a well-balance effective team from what we have.

[pete]

I think the flat 4 in midfield is almost unheard of now in favour of the dare i say diamond system where have back & forward central midfielders...

[colster]

I think the flat 4 in midfield is almost unheard of now in favour of the dare i say diamond system where have back & forward central midfielders...

Who uses the diamond formation?

[Tired&Emotional]

Who uses the diamond formation?


Didn't Eriksson use it and change back after a "players revolt" on the issue?

[youngirish]

I'd stick Shane Supple in the squad as third choice keeper. He's playing regularly now at Ipswich and looks like he has a vast amount of potenital. I'd certainly have him there instead of Murphy, Colgan or Stack. None of which play regular football at a high enough level to justify their inclusion.

[Stuttgart88]

I expect Pete is referring to a combo of holding player / attacking player which does tend to be the favoured approach these days. I wouldn't call it a diamond so much myself, that's just Sven bullsh1tology & I expect it strictly refers to the "wide" two playing narrower than having conventional wingers.


An obvious exception is the way Barton & Ireland interact at City. I heard the term "piston" to describe the Vieira / Petit pairing at Arsenal & it kind of refers to City aswell.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd stick Shane Supple in the squad as third choice keeper. He's playing regularly now at Ipswich and looks like he has a vast amount of potenital. I'd certainly have him there instead of Murphy, Colgan or Stack. None of which play regular football at a high enough level to justify their inclusion.
I'd be inclined to leave the Irish U19 team alone for the time being. Let them develop together for now.

Colin Doyle is playing regularly and very well. He's also twice Supple's size. Colgan no chance though, I agree. Supple is still only no. 2 at Ipswich - he's only getting a game because Lewis Price is injured ( I think). I think Wayne Henderson is in with a shot of being no. 3 keeper, esp if he can seal a permanent move to Brighton. They really like him down there. He's been injured and I think he may be back at Villa as they're arguing over his transfer price.

Supple's time will come, as will Randolph's.

[youngirish]

Supple is still only no. 2 at Ipswich - he's only getting a game because Lewis Price is injured ( I think).


Price has been back for a while now but Supple is keeping his place in goal. Henderson was impressive during his time with Brighton but he hasn't played regularly for a while. I think Supple at the moment is a better keeper than Doyle even if he is only about half his size.

[Stuttgart88]

Not sitting on the fence here but they could rotate 3rd keeper, just to make sure they all get some experience. It's a totally remote possibility than a 3rd keeper will ever have anything to do. I'm very positive about Supple but am I right in thinking he's not even no. 1 choice for Ireland's U19s?

The underage keepers, in my opinion, are better off playing for the underage sides right now. Who'll be U21 keeper now that Henderson & Deeney are overage?

[eirebhoy]

Finnan played at left back for a lot of his time at Fulham and I think he's the best option for that position with Kelly at right back. We need an attacking right back as the right midfield position will most likely be filled by someone who'll drift inside a lot and will need overlapping.

O'Brien has been doing well at Pompey and always plays well for us so I think Dunne-O'Brien is a cert to start at centre half.

In my opinion, we have more players coming through now than ever before. When Kerr's underage teams were doing so well, very few of the players were getting games at club level. A lot of the U19s are getting first team football now.

Off topic but here's a pass from Duff which was on Soccer AM last week:

http://media.putfile.com/Duff-Pass

Quality pass.

[brine3]

did anyone mention Ronnie O'Brien? He might be worth a look in.

[tetsujin1979]

Top pass from Duff there EB

I saw Finnan play at left full once for Ireland under Kerr, that was the Norway game. Played at right full later in the game too and didn't seem out of position in either. I think that was the only time Kerr tried him out there, and settled on O'Shea in there.

[eirebhoy]

Top pass from Duff there EB

I saw Finnan play at left full once for Ireland under Kerr, that was the Norway game. Played at right full later in the game too and didn't seem out of position in either. I think that was the only time Kerr tried him out there, and settled on O'Shea in there.
Finnan played left back against Switzerland afair.

[Stuttgart88]

Finnan played left back against Switzerland afair.
That's right. I think he, O'Brien & Given were only players to do well that day. Carr played left back against Celtic.

[tetsujin1979]

Finnan played left back against Switzerland afair.
Indeed he did, my mistake - http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=430756

[Superhoops]

Not sitting on the fence here but they could rotate 3rd keeper, just to make sure they all get some experience. It's a totally remote possibility than a 3rd keeper will ever have anything to do. I'm very positive about Supple but am I right in thinking he's not even no. 1 choice for Ireland's U19s?

The underage keepers, in my opinion, are better off playing for the underage sides right now. Who'll be U21 keeper now that Henderson & Deeney are overage?
Could be Darren Randolph from Charlton Athletic

[Bald Student]

Could be Darren Randolph from Charlton AthleticQuigley was in the last few squads as second choice. He's still underage.

[TerryPhelan]

did anyone mention Ronnie O'Brien? He might be worth a look in.

Thank you brine3! I don't know why he is constantly overlooked - out of sight, out of mind maybe? Ronnie O'Brien, apart from being voted Time's Man of the Millennium, is lighting up the MLS with Dallas Burn and has been on their Team of the Season for the last 2 years. He's a right-winger - which has been a trouble position for us lately - and is surely as good, if not better, than anything we have going in that area at the mo. I wouldn't agree with playing Joey O'Brien at RM - generally the less players playing out of position for us the better - but his natural position is CM; perhaps give him a run there for 25 mins?

In any case, I think a big squad for Sweden is a decent idea. Mine would run as follows:

Given, Kenny, Stack.

Finnan, Kelly, J. O'Brien, Dunne, O'Brien, McCarthy, Harte, O'Shea.

R. O'Brien, S. Reid, A. Reid, Kavanagh, Holland, Ireland, McGeady, Duff.

Keane, Morrison, Connolly, Trundle, Doyle.

With the team being:

Kenny

Finnan
Dunne (c)
O'Brien
Harte

R. O'Brien
Kavanagh
A. Reid
Duff

Keane
Doyle

Would like to see Kelly, McCarthy, J. O'Brien, Ireland, Trundle and McGeady all get a half or at least 30 mins.

Has anyone mentioned Neil Kilkenny of Birmingham yet? He's been in and out of the team this season - worth a look?

[Reality Bites]

Andy Reids club position means he should struggle to get near the team let alone hold down a place in the centre of midfields.. he really needs to get a grip of his career again!

[Stuttgart88]

Has anyone mentioned Neil Kilkenny of Birmingham yet? He's been in and out of the team this season - worth a look?
Wants to play for England.

[Plastic Paddy]

Has anyone mentioned Neil Kilkenny of Birmingham yet? He's been in and out of the team this season - worth a look?

Not an option. After originally declaring for Ireland he's taken the Queen's Shilling instead.

:ball: PP