Winter Pitches

[bluemovie]

I wonder did Alan Matthews or anyone else who wants to revert to winter football see the pitches at Burton Albion and Clyde last weekend. Looking at the state of them reminded me of how bad Irish pitches would be at this time of year. Look at the number of postponements in England and Scotland over Christmas too. Thank God we had the sense to switch to summer football.

[pete]

Was thinking the same myself. Not much passing football on pitches like that.

[NY Hoop]

And that dolt Keely maintains summer football has failed:rolleyes:

Best decision ever made.


KOH

[Magicme]

I honestly cant see how anyone would want to go back to winter football.

[Mental Man]

Alan "Whinger" Mathews does, sure with the amount of hoofball that he plays the ball wont be on the ground anyway, he thinks the crowds will come flocking back into Flancare park if they do resort to it.
Play good football and the crowds will go and see any game :D .

[ndrog]

[QUOTE=NY Hoop]And that dolt Keely maintains summer football has failed:rolleyes:

Best decision ever made.


Only reason keely wants winter football is because hes a school teacher and hates the fact that hes dosent get his summer hols now ! Id say he gets serious earache from the missus aswell:)

[Red4Eva]

the benefits of summer football are long term ones but i'm sure the vast majority of people will agree that the product has improved already

[Breifne]

[QUOTE=NY Hoop]Id say he gets serious earache from the missus aswell:)

Think he sorted out that issue a while back

[ndrog]

Woops ! I meant his current ladyfriend.

[hamish]

Jaysus, is there anyone married anymore??:confused:

[Sonic]

Alan "Whinger" Mathews does, sure with the amount of hoofball that he plays the ball wont be on the ground anyway, he thinks the crowds will come flocking back into Flancare park if they do resort to it.
Play good football and the crowds will go and see any game :D .

Comment of the year pity the longford fans havent the same opinion hes a joke

[Derek]

Jaysus, is there anyone married anymore??:confused:

Sir Elton and his manfriend just tied the knot:D

I know it's a rubbish reply but I couldn't resist. Sorry Mods.

[Raheny Red]

Anyway enough about marrige! I Had a match today in Artane and I don't know how the pitch was even playable. The Amatuer Football League a couple of months ago rejected the move to Summer soccer due to players/teams going away on holiday! Ridiclous really as I've had 5 postponments in the last 2 months!

[hamish]

Sir Elton and his manfriend just tied the knot

I know it's a rubbish reply but I couldn't resist. Sorry Mods.

LOL :D - getting back on topic - one good thing I find not being involved in footie is the worry about arranging matches and watching the skies to see if the pitches will be flooded.

Here's a point someone may think about. Given that so many under age and youth footie takes place in Winter, does it have an effect on the skills development of our young players. I mean, playing on heavy pitches means that the kids can be spending half the time coping with the conditions rather than improving skills etc. Maybe I'm totally wrong here but it's something I have mulled about over the years.

[Raheny Red]

Yes, of course the state of a pitch would determine what type of football would be played! If your playing on a pitch which resembles a swimming pool then your are going to be more inclined to hoofing the ball up to the strikers. If the pitch is in good condition then there is more a chance to get the ball down on the deck and be able to play it about!

[hamish]

Yes, of course the state of a pitch would determine what type of football would be played! If your playing on a pitch which resembles a swimming pool then your are going to be more inclined to hoofing the ball up to the strikers. If the pitch is in good condition then there is more a chance to get the ball down on the deck and be able to play it about!

I didn't put it very well Raheny Red - what I meant was does it have long term implications for the level of skills in this country. We seem to produce a lot of good reliable "battlers" but not as many in the skills department.
I've seen oh so many games when the weather and pitch were good but the hoofing continued. Maybe it's the coaches fault too.
I dunno, it's a thought that has crossed my mind from time to time over the years.
God knows the number of games I've seen where a youngster used some delightful skills - even when trying to cope with heavy conditions, only to be told by a coach or parent - "stop messing about, why didn't ya belt the fcuking ball":D
So, while pitches are a factor, coaches/"sideline persons" don't help either.
When you think about it, the likes of Argentina, Brazil, the African, Mediterranean countries also have games played in rainy mucky conditions yet seem to produce so many skillful players in comparison to Ireland and the UK.
I suppose I'm contradicting myself somewhat now but I feel that summer football for kids might help coupled with better emphasis on skills by coaches.
I've lost count of the number of under age games over the years I've watched where games are played on poor pitches when they'd be better off cancelling them and too many coaches making their kids play awful football.
Still not happy with my comments above. Will have a think and a drink and try to be more articulate later.

[Raheny Red]

Yes, of course some coaches and parents are to blame! If your go to your local park on a Saturday/Sunday morning you will see the aul' ones and aul' fellas screaming on the touchline. Now I know youngsters need to be encouraged but some parents over step the mark. They are more worried about little Johny scoring a goal. Little Johny hears them screaming and off he goes like a headless chicken towards goal. If the parents were to relax it a little bit then these kids won't feel as much pressure on them to win a game. If a school boy/girl team lose a game it's always the parents that are first to say "it's the taking part that counts, just once you enjoy yourself that's what matters"! That's all well and good but why don't they say this before the game and not to scream their heads off during it!

With some coaches you'll always find the one with the attack,attack,attack mentality! Rarely you will hear a coach shouting "square the ball" or "hit the pass
back to the defender/midfielder"!

[hamish]

Yes, of course some coaches and parents are to blame! If your go to your local park on a Saturday/Sunday morning you will see the aul' ones and aul' fellas screaming on the touchline. Now I know youngsters need to be encouraged but some parents over step the mark. They are more worried about little Johny scoring a goal. Little Johny hears them screaming and off he goes like a headless chicken towards goal. If the parents were to relax it a little bit then these kids won't feel as much pressure on them to win a game. If a school boy/girl team lose a game it's always the parents that are first to say "it's the taking part that counts, just once you enjoy yourself that's what matters"! That's all well and good but why don't they say this before the game and not to scream their heads off during it!

With some coaches you'll always find the one with the attack,attack,attack mentality! Rarely you will hear a coach shouting "square the ball" or "hit the pass
back to the defender/midfielder"!

You never said a truer word RR.
I remember a schools six a side game down here about 10 years ago. Referee couldn't make it so yours truly stepped into the breach.
One team was leading 3-0 which included a penalty I awarded.
You won't believe it but a lady parent of the WINNING team shouted out something like, "Work harder boys, they have seven on their team with that referee". She kept this sniping up even when her team reached 5-0 so eventually I had enough and, ever the gentleman:eek: asked her quietly and politely would she please stop and stated that she was showing very bad example and should be ashamed of herself. Later I had to remind the school Principal/team manager that I would stop the game if her bad language and idiotic behaviour didn't stop,
BTW I also mentioned to him that if it were a bloke behaving like that I would have gone over a placed a bunch of fives in his mouth (and I would have too) which, of course, would have been completely self defeating and silly
(I could be a contrary, cantankerous little b.ollox when refereeing or playing:o )
He removed her from the sideline and apologised later saying that they were really a Gah school and nobody minded that kind of carry on at Gah matches.:rolleyes:

Far too many parents on the sideline indulge in the most ignorant carry one. It's fcuking unbelievable and Wayne Rooney is blamed for setting a bad example??

Still, though, I feel that heavy pitches do not help with regard to producing more skillful players. Look at the number of big, strong "mullockers" that occupy places on under age teams while lighter, skillful players freeze on the sidelines. They can cope with heavier conditions better than the little fella who can carry the ball, spread it around, trap, volley, shimmy and so on. It's kinda hard to do that when you're ankles are stuck in inches of muck, whatever about the coach in the dug-out.

[pete]

Summer football has definitely improved the style of play in the eL so would be very interesting to see what 10 years of firm playable summer pitches would do to underage players.

[Mark Breen]

Sirhamish & RR, While i agree with you in part, I would also like to inform you of the changes in underage coaching, I am currently doing my FAI Coaching badges, I passed my FAI Kick-start badge yesterday (its not very hard) and ALL the emphasise was on NOT shouting at the players and instead letting the players play football and having word's with them when there's a break in play,

It also touched on dealing with parents like the women you talked about above, We where told to maybe arrange a meeting with the parents of the kid's before the season starts and then monitor them, The FAI and any coaches I have discussed this with are ALL trying to change the attitude to parents, players and other coaches,

Not that’s not to say I was doing that for the last 4 years I have never shouted ‘hoof the ball’ of ‘get rid’

As for the playing styles i.e. get it forward as fast as possible, the biggest problem we have in this country is the Dublin District Soccer League (DDSL).

The DDSL insist on playing competitive football at all level's

Now can anyone on this board tell me why a 7,8,9,10 or 11 year old should play competitive football, why not put 10 teams in a group where it doesn't matter weather you win lose or draw, or even just let managers arrange there own games live the development squad’s do. If there’s not competition then means your free to manage players with out having to worry about the club chairperson calling you into his office to explain why your bottom of the league at U7.

Anyway this is a whole different discussion to the one at the top of the page....

Yes the bad weather hampers our playing style, but I have never (in the 4 years I’ve been a coach) asked any of my players to hoof, I didn't pick the tallest players in the trials just so I could have a target man, I work on passing, talking, and movement at every training session, the kid's I coach are 11 so I don't even work on fitness, cause at this level its all about movement on and off the ball and accurate passing, and I have found even throughout the winter we have played some great football and the poor pitches are not to blame, the DDSL are. if they got rid of competitive football until 11-12 then we would have much better players with better techniques no matter what the pitches where like, At this moment in time there is to much pressure on players and coaches to win leagues and cup’s and that will only change if the league get’s rid of competition,

By the way I asked John Devine (FAI Coach) what he thought about this and he was telling me about being in Amsterdam last week and watching this first hand, He said the FAI where pushing for this but it was ultimately up to the DDSL to change there league and the could not force them to change but are going to keep trying.

[Raheny Red]

Good to see that things are beginning to change. Two of my mates are coachings a team each, one is with St. Kevin's Boys (Whitehall) and the other is with Grange Woodbine (Raheny). They are between 16-19 years old and are doing a great job. Their respective clubs are paying for the fees for them to go on the coaching course. They are also paying the fees for them to do the referee's course.

However, there is still a minority with the hoofing attitude, yesterday morning I witnessed this with St.Malachys. Their manager seemed to be 40/50 and he was just shouting the usual tripe - "hoof it" and "lash it up the field".

Anyway, it's great to see clubs paying the fees for the young and upcoming coaches involved with the kids!

[Mark Breen]

I don't doubt that RR, I see it myself, from opposing managers and I’m sure I’ve let it slip out of my mouth every now and again, Unfortunately teams St Martins, Malacheys, Artane Beaumount, Elm Mount etc... don't have any infrastructure like St. Kevin’s which arranges these FAI course’s, I am with St. Kevin’s and that course I did over the weekend involved a few managers from Sword's and at least one from Ashbourne, but as I said before unless the club is willing to actively get the course's done or find out when and where they're getting, we going to be stuck with these fool's who think like that women sirhamish mentioned and the Malachey's manager.

ps. I have played for all of them teams I mentioned above and I am aware there are some excellent managers in them club's but from what I’ve seen and heard its always been the manager who went out and got the information and not the club.

If I was the chairman of a club I would make sure over the next 4-5 years to have all my managers attend the FAI coaching course its only 45 euro and well worth it.

ps On a good note RR, there was a lot of young coaches at the course some as young as 17 which is great for the future, and again there where a few of the older generation there who now realise that shouting and winning isn't everything, Its more about progression...

pps who is your mate at Kevin's , is it one of the twin's who play on the BD team

[NY Hoop]

if they got rid of competitive football until 11-12 then we would have much better players with better techniques no matter what the pitches where like, At this moment in time there is to much pressure on players and coaches to win leagues and cup’s and that will only change if the league get’s rid of competition,

Could not agree more. No kids should be playing competitive ball under the age of 10. Absolutely ridiculous to have kids under 10 being screamed at by "managers" and parents in games which I've witnessed on numerous occasions. Christ it should be all about fun and running around enjoying themselves before 10.

KOH

[Mark Breen]

I think the general consensis is that under 11's shouldn't be playing competitive ball and as you say they should be just running around having fun, thats what i personally try and incorporate into my training sessions, one of the best thing's i've incorporated into my training is a game called olympic handball, Basically its handball but you score with a header as opposed to your hand's, the kid's love it and you'll be surprised how much they learn about showing for the ball and moving as the ball carrier isn't aloud to move once he/she catches the ball. Games like this should be incorporated into training as apposed to players (U7-U13,14) doing lap's, could someone explain to me why players that age need to be doing fitness training,

Anyway something has to be done to get rid of competitve football for that age especially considering the size of the goals for U11 up, how is a 10 year old supposed to save anything in a full size goal all were doing is ruining there confidence

[hamish]

Sirhamish & RR, While i agree with you in part, I would also like to inform you of the changes in underage coaching, I am currently doing my FAI Coaching badges, I passed my FAI Kick-start badge yesterday (its not very hard) .............could not force them to change but are going to keep trying.

Yeah, Mark, agree that there are brilliant young coaches who bring out the best in their kids. TBH have seen some terrific kids in ADSL games where skill shines through.

Hate to see them having to cope with bad conditions though.

Best of luck in your coaching career too. With lads like you footie here is in good hands.:)

[Magicme]

Would totally agree that its stupid having kids playing competitively too young. At mons we have mini leagues for 6-10 year olds on sunday mornings and at the moment have 2 teams at u11, u12, u13, u14 and one u16. Next year we are probably gonna scrap the u11s and keep them in mini leagues for another year to try and sustain an interest for longer and not lose them to gah and also to give them a better skills based training b4 they have to be put to the test.

The FAI said they dont want under 11's playing competitively yet there is U11's in the national cup....doesnt make sense. We refuse to enter our u11's in national cup, they only compete in the Dundalk Schoolboy league.