What is the Croke/Lansdowne situation

[wallis]

Can someone just confirm for me what the situation is.

Basically , when does LR come down , when do we start playing at CP (september ? after the Dutch friendly ?).

How long are we at CP for ? just the for the Euro games or does it also apply to friendlies in that period ?

What were the costs involved with being there ?

cheers

[gspain]

My understanding is

1) Not fully agreed yet that it will be Croke Park. Likely to be finalised within a few weeks.

2) Only after Lansdowne is closed for redevelopment so most likely end of 2006. Sept/Oct qualifiers at Lansdowne then.

3) I have seen reports that the GAA may only sanction competitive games but that was not included a saprt of the motion on Rule 42. The IRFU autumn Internationals would be a grey area then. This may be a sop to the lunatic fringe who are having kittens at the prospect of football and rugby in their stadium. The IRFU are also reportedly trying to switch the order of games next year so France and not England arrive first.

[eirebhoy]

Planning permission is being lodged this month. The stadium will be closed for all of 2007. Construction is expected to start in Spring 2007 and completed in 2 years.

[wallis]

ok , thank you.

So it looks like its business as usual for the rest of this year until we otherwise

[Superhoops]

ok , thank you.

So it looks like its business as usual for the rest of this year until we otherwise
In October 2005, the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, John O'Donoghue confirmed that plans were on schedule to lodge planning permission in December 2005.

On December 11 the GAA Central Council gave the go-ahead for negotiations with the IRFU and the FAI for the playing of competitive international fixtures in GAA headquarters, it’s based on the understanding there will be no delay in the planning application in regard to the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road.

In a statement issued after that meeting, the GAA noted that the Lansdowne Road Development Company confirmed that an application for planning permission would be lodged with Dublin City Council early in January 2006. And, the company’s planning consultants have confirmed that Lansdowne Road will be closed for all of the following year.

From this it would appear that the application for planning permission is already delayed, maybe only by weeks. I would expect there will be an announcement when the application is actually lodged but even at this early stage this project and the co-operation of the GAA has all the hallmarks of it becoming a shambles. I hope I am wrong.

You would think that because of the delicacy of the Croke Park issue, that the IRFU/FAI would be making sure there are no loopholes that the GAA 'diehards' could look to exploit and a delay in the submission of the planning application is not a good start.

[gspain]

From this it would appear that the application for planning permission is already delayed, maybe only by weeks. I would expect there will be an announcement when the application is actually lodged but even at this early stage this project and the co-operation of the GAA has all the hallmarks of it becoming a shambles. I hope I am wrong.

You would think that because of the delicacy of the Croke Park issue, that the IRFU/FAI would be making sure there are no loopholes that the GAA 'diehards' could look to exploit and a delay in the submission of the planning application is not a good start.

Planning permission is going to be a big hurdle for the new Lansdowne. There is serious opposition in D4 among some powerful and influential people. I imagine it is important to get the application right. Ultimately the resident will probably favour a stadium over lots of apartments on the site anyway

The GAA motion relates to Lansdowne being closed for redevelopment and not to a timescale. I agree that things need to move forward though as no doubt Frank Murphy et al in Cork are scrambling looking for a loophole. It certainly would be better to get it sorted while Sean Kelly is still president.

[pete]

A truelly irish scenaro - we will let you pay us money to use out stadium but only when you can't use your own because its being demolished.

Lansdowne residents really only have 2 choices - stadium where they can have input into design or apartments where developer is out to make maximum profit so highest density. Only Havalock Square residents have any claims for losing light.

The only thing certain is that Lansdowne will not stay as it is now for ever.

[Superhoops]

A truelly irish scenaro - we will let you pay us money to use out stadium but only when you can't use your own because its being demolished.

Lansdowne residents really only have 2 choices - stadium where they can have input into design or apartments where developer is out to make maximum profit so highest density. Only Havalock Square residents have any claims for losing light.
The only thing certain is that Lansdowne will not stay as it is now for ever.
Aren't these the less affluent of the surrounding residents?

[elroy]

To be honest as much as i 'love' the gaa, i dont think they are going to push the Rule 42 matter anymore. Yes when the first game is played there will be a big media circus but I think as far as not allowing non competitive games there I cant see that happening and it would be a terrible PR exercise on the gaas part.

Im hoping that when games are played there and the whole hullabaloo are it has pasted that in future when LR is developed that the larger games that would attract attendances around 80k mark would be played in Croker. Likewise some arrangement could be made with the gaa that a few of their games could be played in LR (only 2-3 times a year do they get attendances over the 50k mark). I read once that its costs the gaa the same to open the stadium whether 30k attend or its a full house.

[geysir]

Likewise some arrangement could be made with the gaa that a few of their games could be played in LR
That sound logical enough. Then the new Landsdowne rd. pitch would have to be much longer and wider than a soccer pitch to accomodate a GAA game.

only 2-3 times a year do they get attendances over the 50k mark)
From memory, more than 10 games attracted >50k last year or close enough to 50k as to make no difference.

[Superhoops]

To be honest as much as i 'love' the gaa, i dont think they are going to push the Rule 42 matter anymore. Yes when the first game is played there will be a big media circus but I think as far as not allowing non competitive games there I cant see that happening and it would be a terrible PR exercise on the gaas part.

Im hoping that when games are played there and the whole hullabaloo are it has pasted that in future when LR is developed that the larger games that would attract attendances around 80k mark would be played in Croker. Likewise some arrangement could be made with the gaa that a few of their games could be played in LR (only 2-3 times a year do they get attendances over the 50k mark). I read once that its costs the gaa the same to open the stadium whether 30k attend or its a full house.
There is still a significant element in the GAA who will fight tooth and nail to do whatever it takes to prevent, disrupt, minimise any efforts to use Croke Park for soccer and rugby, your own county man Frank Murphy being one of the main protagonists. These are keeping their powder dry until they need to because there are enough hoops to be jumped through before CP for soccer/rugby becomes a reality.

I have mentioned this before, but soccer will have the biggest problem because of two issues (1) their season overlaps two/three busy months for GAA - May, June and September (2) the requirement to play international games on Wednesday evenings which will no doubt cause problems with the residents and the lack of parking and public transport access.

Don't rule out going to Cardiff!

[Risteard]

There is still a significant element in the GAA who will fight tooth and nail to do whatever it takes to prevent, disrupt, minimise any efforts to use Croke Park for soccer and rugby, your own county man Frank Murphy being one of the main protagonists.
Good point.
I hadn't thought about that.
The likes of him will genuinely just set out to cause trouble.
Sean Kelly deserves a lot of praise for lowering the amount of dinosaur behaviour shown by these types.

[Superhoops]

Good point.
I hadn't thought about that.
The likes of him will genuinely just set out to cause trouble.
Sean Kelly deserves a lot of praise for lowering the amount of dinosaur behaviour shown by these types.
Sean Kelly has demonstrated a very progressive approach to this and hopefully he will still have influence when he leaves his post. It is unclear what position Nicky Brennan, the GAA president elect, will adopt. Hopefully he will just step up on what Sean Kelly has begun.

[Bald Student]

Lansdowne Road redevelopment: The IRFU/FAI planning application for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road, due to be submitted in the first week of January, has been delayed until later this month.

The application was supposed to be completed by the end of 2005 but local residents objected to it being lodged over the Christmas period, forcing the process to be temporarily stalled. IRFU chief executive Philip Browne clarified the situation yesterday: "We're just finishing it up at present," said Browne.If the only reason the application was delayed was to avoide Christmas then it should have been all ready to go by now, not requiring 'finishing up'.

[elroy]

your own county man Frank Murphy being one of the main protagonists.

Dont I know, the cork county board didnt vote as he found some loophole in the rules that enabled them to stop a vote on whether cork should be in favour so therefore they voted no as he wanted.

One bad ******* if there ever was.

[Stuttgart88]

A knight of the realm leading out the national side at Croker. Could be interesting!

[NeilMcD]

I dont think its going to be Robson as manager Stuttgart, All the signs are that Staunton is going to be the man in charge and that Robson is just been placed in an advisory role.

[Stuttgart88]

I know, but I was just offering it up as a scenarion to be imagined.

[Superhoops]

A knight of the realm leading out the national side at Croker. Could be interesting!
Maybe Frank Murphy will be delegated to carry his ermine robe and ceremonial sword:D

[Superhoops]

Dont I know, the cork county board didnt vote as he found some loophole in the rules that enabled them to stop a vote on whether cork should be in favour so therefore they voted no as he wanted.

One bad ******* if there ever was.

The Cork County Board are making sure that the loopholes are still kept on the agenda. This was reported on 22 December:

This matter was addressed by Cork representative Bob Hononan at Saturday's (10 December 2005) meeting, who briefed delegates at yesterday's (11 December) Cork Convention. He made it clear that they did not wish to "undo" what Congress had decided but wanted to ensure that Croke Park would only be made available during the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. Their argument was the Congress policy did not allow for rugby and soccer to be played in Croke Park if planning permission is not received by 2007.

[geysir]

All this nonsense with no stadium for 2 or 3 years would have been avoided with building a new one in the City.
I have never liked this new landsdowne stadium project, the enormous cost, the length of construction time and at the end no additional stadium. I read the articlehttp://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=32495 on the new stadium that Drogheda are getting built at a cost of €1,000 per seat. The const. companyhttp://www.sportsfi.com/sfi.htmon their web page, they give a solid guarantee of 6 months to build a 30,000 stadium at a fixed cost ( < €30m.)
Maybe the thought of associating themselves with such models of efficiency the Government/FAI are afraid that the very foundation of our civilization would crumble.

[Stuttgart88]

Hear Hear. And all Bertie's talk of a mammoth 80k stadium out in the sticks was utter rubbish too.

Out of interest, what could be done to upgrade Dalymount, or Shelbourne dog track in Ringsend? And why not a smaller project in Cork or Limerick?