View Full Version : SPL better than eircom League – Hoolahan
sligoman
04/01/2006, 8:07 PM
Livingston new-boy Wes Hoolahan insists he has taken a step up football’s ladder by swapping the eircom League for the Bank of Scotland Premierleague.
Former Irish under-21 star Hoolahan left Irish big guns Shelbourne for SPL strugglers Livi last week in a deal said to be worth around £100,000.
And the 22-year-old, unveiled at Almondvale on Tuesday, is looking forward to testing himself against the best in Scotland.
He told Livingston’s official website: “I have no doubt the SPL is better than the Irish league and saw this as a great opportunity to improve myself.
"I am looking forward to playing Rangers, Celtic and the other SPL teams. We have a lot of games coming up and it’s really exciting to be here.
"I played with [fellow former Irish youth internationals] Graham Barrett and Paul Tierney for the international squad at under-21, so I know both of them, and I expect to settle in quickly at Livingston.”
http://www.elevenaside.com/acrossthewater/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=20575
Celdrog
04/01/2006, 8:09 PM
In fairness he is hardly going to out and say the opposite - maybe he believes it, maybe not, but it is interersting that he felt obliged to say it - a few years ago it would have been taken as read.
Conor H
04/01/2006, 8:09 PM
With the exception of the Old firm the standard of the SPL id on a par with The Eircom League IMO.
sligoman
04/01/2006, 8:12 PM
In fairness he is hardly going to out and say the opposite.In fairness, he didn't have to say anything about the two leagues, he could have just said:
"I am looking forward to playing Rangers, Celtic and the other SPL teams. We have a lot of games coming up and it’s really exciting to be here.
"I played with [fellow former Irish youth internationals] Graham Barrett and Paul Tierney for the international squad at under-21, so I know both of them, and I expect to settle in quickly at Livingston.”
Hope he enjoys the Scottish First Division lets see how great it is to play the other teams there in 8 months time!
Slash/ED
04/01/2006, 8:32 PM
Of course it's better, you have to include the top teams when comparing the leagues. But he has signed for a team worse than the one he played for last year.
Be quite funny if they got relegated though, wouldn't it ? Another thing that amuses me is how he reckons this will help his chances of getting an International call up. Oh yeah ? Tell that to Richie Foran, Richie Byrne and Noel Hunt. Christ, the new International manager won't have a clue who Wes Hooligan is, and won't be arced finding out either. Especially if it's El Tel. He'll be too busy down the passport office.
Slash/ED
04/01/2006, 8:53 PM
I agree really, it's a very very bad move from his point of view. Very badly advised, he should have been looking to follow Doyle to a good first division club.
harry crumb
04/01/2006, 9:16 PM
I wouldnt totally disagree with Hoolahan
Top 2 teams are massive.
Higher average attendences.
Better facilities and stadia.
I wouldnt totally disagree with Hoolahan
Top 2 teams are massive.
Higher average attendences.
Better facilities and stadia.
Pretty much.
And the comments were in retort to Nutsy saying he'd taken a step down. I think he had to be seen to stand up for both himself and his new club. He says it'd been his dream to play in England or Scotland, so I'm sure he does believe it.
dcfcsteve
05/01/2006, 1:12 AM
With the exception of the Old firm the standard of the SPL id on a par with The Eircom League IMO.
Why do people on this site seemed both convinced and obsessed with this assertion ?? And what supports this view ? 'Oh - I watch a lot of SPL so I know.....' ??
Hearts and Hibs would also be at a better standard than EL clubs - in every sense. But it's all moot anyway...
A face
05/01/2006, 3:02 AM
Hearts and Hibs would also be at a better standard than EL clubs - in every sense. But it's all moot anyway...
I have to disagree with you there, Hearts are doing good this year ... i'll give you that but Hibs, City played them and we were missing half our first team and were whippin' them, took off some of the other first teamers at half time and still did well against them, i have seen them a bit .... saw them beat Dundee Utd a while back three nil ... but i'll tell you one thing Cork City FC most definitely would take them to the cleaners in a competitive game.
Old Firm, yeah ... good standard, the rest ... i am not sure about to be honest, but there is no way i'd go believing they are better than the top 5-6 in our league.
I've no doubt that the SPL is better than the Irish League either tbh, the eL/LoI not so sure... :D
It's a step up in league, a step down in club. If you took our top couple of clubs out of it I wouldn't see the rest of our league comparing to well tbh. One thing is with us is the top two can realistically be different every year.
CollegeTillIDie
05/01/2006, 7:09 AM
If Wes had joined Hearts Hibs Celtic or Rangers it would have been a step up.
The big 4 nearly always qualify for some European competition or other.
He is joining a team that won't qualify for Europe any time soon and is likely to be in a lower Division in 5 months time. Nutsy was right Livingston are not as good as Shels, as regards the big 4 in the SPL that's a moot point. I think if we had the resources of Celtic and or Rangers at any EL club than we would be better than the Old Firm.
Our Premier Division is however far more competitive than either the SPL or the English one. More teams have a chance of winning it here than in either location. There are as I see it 4 potential Premier Division Champions before 2006 season even starts. Cork , Derry, Shels and Drogheda . How things pan out after that is anyone's guess and one of the other mid table teams may even come good next season.
Hibs4Ever
05/01/2006, 7:19 AM
I have to disagree with you there, Hearts are doing good this year ... i'll give you that but Hibs, City played them and we were missing half our first team and were whippin' them, took off some of the other first teamers at half time and still did well against them, i have seen them a bit .... saw them beat Dundee Utd a while back three nil ... but i'll tell you one thing Cork City FC most definitely would take them to the cleaners in a competitive game.
Old Firm, yeah ... good standard, the rest ... i am not sure about to be honest, but there is no way i'd go believing they are better than the top 5-6 in our league.
You keep bringing this incorrect arguement up A FACE. City were beating our youth team 3-0 at half time, we brought on THREE first team players and ripped City apart in 2nd half to get back to 3-3. Stop twisting the facts of the game. Plus it was a meaningless friendly in which Hibs were just back from 2 months off and had 1 training session before match, and Cork were already into their season.
I've been a season ticket holder at St Pats for 12 years now, and go to most Hibs games every season, so its not a bias opinion when I say the SPL in definitely a better standard than the Eircom League, espescially Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers.
thejollyrodger
05/01/2006, 8:54 AM
IMHO I think its a step down by weso and he is just trying to make out it was a good move.
Livingston are never going to get anywhere near the top of the SPL, get a grip Weso.
jesus lads the spl is bigger and better than our league. Who cares? So is practically every league in europe. Stop getting so hung up on comparing ourselves to other leagues. AFAIC our league is the only league.
Good luck to hoolihan. Always thought he was overhyped and think he's found his level
You keep bringing this incorrect arguement up A FACE. City were beating our youth team 3-0 at half time, we brought on THREE first team players and ripped City apart in 2nd half to get back to 3-3. Stop twisting the facts of the game. Plus it was a meaningless friendly in which Hibs were just back from 2 months off and had 1 training session before match, and Cork were already into their season.
City only played 5 of the 1st team & all subs in the second half were U21 players. City beat Hibs youth team 3-0 in 1st half & Hibs beat City youth team in the 2nd half so fairly similar.
I've been a season ticket holder at St Pats for 12 years now, and go to most Hibs games every season, so its not a bias opinion when I say the SPL in definitely a better standard than the Eircom League, espescially Hibs, Hearts, Celtic and Rangers.
Not many would dispute that. Its the other 8 teams we judging.
Starting Line-Up: Cork City v Hibernians
A.O’Shea, (U21) Lordan, (U21) Coughlan, (1st team Bench) D.Murray, Murphy, O’Donovan, O’Halloran, (1st team Bench) O'Callaghan, Scanlon, (Youth) Fenn, Behan (1st team Bench)
Substitutions: Guthrie for D.Murray (46mins), Tynan for O'Donovan (46mins), McCarthy for Fenn (46mins), Softic for O'Callaghan (46mins) , C.O'Shea for Murphy (56mins), Carroll for Scanlon (69mins), Harrington for A.O'Shea (78mins), A.Murray for Behan (81mins), Cahill for O'Halloran (86mins).
ColinR
05/01/2006, 9:25 AM
Not many would dispute that. Its the other 8 teams we judging.
if you exclude the top 4 in scotland, then you should surely exclude our top four.
are you then claiming that the current bohs team would beat kilmarnock, longford beat motherwell etc.
its pure delusional to claim that our league is better or even as good as the spl, however, that is not saying that our best teams are not equivalent to their worst teams (which kind of proves that their league is better...)
its an irrelevant argument anyway, we have improved our own league, and are doing quite well at the moment. if these other superior leagues now want to take our players, they can pay top price (at last)
Wiseguy
05/01/2006, 9:33 AM
There is no way the EL is better than the SPL.How people would even think this is beyond me.
Sorry again am i missing something?Shels better than livingston.....i dont think so.I honestly cant believe this....The eircom league is an illusion.Why are people fooling themselves into believing that it is better than it is?Lets be realistic.
Personally I think shels ARE better than livingston,as are city,derry and drogheda,these four IMO are better than the bottom 6 in Scotland and apart from rangers and Celtic in the top half,they could probably live with the rest
Mark Breen
05/01/2006, 9:47 AM
I agree, Shel's, Derry and cork are stronger teams than the bottom half of the scottish premier (I don't think the drog's are)
The main thing is overall the scottish premier is a stronger league than our's.
Better facitlities, better football association, better coverage (even from our sports channel setanta) and better teams ie: the top 4, yes the 3 teams i mentioned could compete in that league but other than that the rest would be down there with livingston or in the 1st...
Weso went to a better league, but join a worse team than he was with,
It looks like weso made a mistake going there, Only time will tell...
Hibs4Ever
05/01/2006, 9:48 AM
How many people have seen Livi play???
And how many times??
Just wondering as a lot of people seem to know so much about their standard
Mark Breen
05/01/2006, 10:16 AM
Personally HIBS4EVER other than watching them most weeks on setanta i don't know that much, i'm also well aware that you can't really tell what a team are like from watching highlights but do you honestly think livingston (as a team) is a step up from Shelbourne (you been a pats fan you would have seen us over the last 5 years wes was with us)
And do you think he will improve as a player playing in the scottish FIRST division next season cause thats were livingston are going.
by the way as i said in another thread the scottish premier is a step up, Livingston isn't...
Hibs4Ever
05/01/2006, 10:26 AM
Personally HIBS4EVER other than watching them most weeks on setanta i don't know that much, i'm also well aware that you can't really tell what a team are like from watching highlights but do you honestly think livingston (as a team) is a step up from Shelbourne (you been a pats fan you would have seen us over the last 5 years wes was with us)
And do you think he will improve as a player playing in the scottish FIRST division next season cause thats were livingston are going.
by the way as i said in another thread the scottish premier is a step up, Livingston isn't...
I think there wouldn't be much of a difference between Livi and Shels. But I do understand what you're saying about Livi being in Div 1 next season (I hope so anyway) but Dunfirmline are down there too, so don't be so sure Livi will get relegated.
Also maybe he's hoping that being in the SPL will give him more oportunities to moving to a bigger club the being in Eircom league would
Mark Breen
05/01/2006, 10:34 AM
Quiet possibly, and i hope he does,maybe he will catch the eye of another manager in scotland or england, maybe even the Hib's management !!!
Weso went to a better league, but join a worse team than he was with...
Thats it in a nutshell.
Usually teams look better in highlights which doesn't say much for quality on lower half of the SPL. I don't know much about Livingston but would be surprised if coaching be any better than Shels. However Hoolahan will get better exposure in the SPL than InterTwoBob Cup.
Poor Student
05/01/2006, 11:06 AM
Thats it in a nutshell.
Usually teams look better in highlights which doesn't say much for quality on lower half of the SPL. I don't know much about Livingston but would be surprised if coaching be any better than Shels. However Hoolahan will get better exposure in the SPL than InterTwoBob Cup.
There's every reason to assume his coaching is better. He is working under Lambert who has worked under Hitzfeld, Jansen, Venglos and Martin O'Neill. He also did his coaching badges in Germany. Facilities are also better at Livingston. Personally I think Livingston will stay up. They had a diabolical start to the season and have recovered to a degree. They were totally adrift a few months ago and they've even lifted themselves off the bottom recently.
Raheny Red
05/01/2006, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Poor Student
they've even lifted themselves off the bottom recently.
Well, they are actually bottom now!! (http://www.armchairfans.co.uk/tables/spl/)
ThatGuy
05/01/2006, 12:23 PM
Colin Hawkins couldn't even get his game in the Vauxhall Conference. You shouldn't be so dismissive of other leagues.
Hibs4Ever
05/01/2006, 12:41 PM
Colin Hawkins couldn't even get his game in the Vauxhall Conference. You shouldn't be so dismissive of other leagues.
Agreed, there are a lot of players here that didn't make it at lower levels in England. Joe Gamble didn't make it at Barnet when they were in the conference (i was a regular visiter to Underhill when I lived i London at the time) also, didn't Hunt from Bohs come from the reserves of a league 2 club in England to be one of the top players in this country?
gustavo
05/01/2006, 12:46 PM
conversely though why are people fooling themselves thinking that the eL isnt any good ?
Hibs4Ever
05/01/2006, 12:52 PM
conversely though why are people fooling themselves thinking that the eL isnt any good ?
Don't think anyone is saying it isn't any good. Just that its not a better standard than the SPL
Kingdom
05/01/2006, 1:12 PM
I've monitored a lot of these discussions without really getting involved. Nobody on this particular thread has said that the eL isn't any good. Just that it isn't as good as the SPL.
Mark Breen
05/01/2006, 1:19 PM
I think this is where this thread should be closed,
SPL as a whole IS better than an improving EL,
What the El has to do is keep improving, Cork & Derry need to keep up the good work of Shels & Cork and Shelbourne have to work twice as hard as last year, in Europe that is,
As for the rest of the EL, we need to get our finances right before attempting full time and with any luck in another 5-6 years we'll have more full time teams than the 4 (i think) we have now (Shels,cork,derry & drog's)
ThatGuy
05/01/2006, 1:23 PM
I think this is where this thread should be closed,
SPL as a whole IS better than an improving EL,
What the El has to do is keep improving, Cork & Derry need to keep up the good work of Shels & Cork and Shelbourne have to work twice as hard as last year, in Europe that is,
As for the rest of the EL, we need to get our finances right before attempting full time and with any luck in another 5-6 years we'll have more full time teams than the 4 (i think) we have now (Shels,cork,derry & drog's)
FYI there is a club that play a few minutes away from Tolka Park which is called Bohemian FC, which has been full time for 6 years, and has had as much of a positive impact on Irish results in Europe as any club, including eliminating a side from the league being compared with the EL.
Agreed, there are a lot of players here that didn't make it at lower levels in England. Joe Gamble didn't make it at Barnet when they were in the conference (i was a regular visiter to Underhill when I lived i London at the time)
I understood he was ever-present in their first team & only left as they couldn't afford him when didn''t get promoted. I don't understand how could say he "didn't make it".
:confused:
Mark Breen
05/01/2006, 1:57 PM
My apologize That Guy
I knew they went full time but i thought/was under the impression that now they only have a few f/t players left as it didn't work out for them,
If i'm wrong i'm sorry if i hurt your feelings or any of the other bohemians fans on here,
my point wasn't really about who's full time and who's not it was more about the spl -v- el conversation just going around and around and etc....
That part at the end was just me rambling on like i am now.
ps i would like to see Bohs do well again and compete it would make for an even more interesting league(o ye and my Dad was a bohs fan, poor man)
With the exception of the Old firm the standard of the SPL id on a par with The Eircom League IMO.
We played Hearts in a pre-season friendly for them, We were mid season and they ran us ragged, beat us 5-1 and it could have been a lot more. I personally think that after a few seasons to adapt the top eL sides could do pretty well in the SPL, the likes to Shels, Derry, Cork and Drogs and to a lesser extent maybe Bohs and Longford
Poor Student
05/01/2006, 5:22 PM
Well, they are actually bottom now!! (http://www.armchairfans.co.uk/tables/spl/)
I'm well aware of that. What I was saying is that at one point they were miles adrift, had lifted themselves off the bottom and yes have fallen back again but I think Dunfermline will be the ones relegated come May.
We played Hearts in a pre-season friendly for them, We were mid season and they ran us ragged, beat us 5-1 and it could have been a lot more. I personally think that after a few seasons to adapt the top eL sides could do pretty well in the SPL, the likes to Shels, Derry, Cork and Drogs and to a lesser extent maybe Bohs and Longford
We played hearts around the same time, and with only half of our first team out we were 3-0 up at half time. Ended up 3-3 after we took all our first teamers off and put a 41 year old in goal. We'd easily cope in the SPL IMO, as would Derry, Drogs and Shels. Hoolahans comments are a bit rich coming from someone who spent half his eL career on the bench. Easily the most over-rated player in the league
harry crumb
05/01/2006, 8:59 PM
That was Hibs I think Eanna.;)
And to say that Hoolahan is over-rated is unfair. He is a great player and was not properly used by shels IMO.
You dont see him like Shels fans. Ask them do they think he is overated?:rolleyes:
Slash/ED
05/01/2006, 10:55 PM
We played Hearts in a pre-season friendly for them, We were mid season and they ran us ragged, beat us 5-1 and it could have been a lot more.
Sounds like Shels v Bray :)
Nobody is saying the EL is better than the SPL so why on earth are people trying to dispute a point that was never made? They have said Shels are better than Livingston, results in Europe would say that Shels and the other top EL sides would be mid table in Scotland, when compared with results in Europe with the not-so-top SPL teams. There is no doubt he has gone to a better league, there is equally no doubt he has gone to a worse team.
Roverstillidie
05/01/2006, 11:01 PM
Sounds like Shels v Bray :)
Nobody is saying the EL is better than the SPL so why on earth are people trying to dispute a point that was never made.
whats the title of the thread?
no-one has mentioned 1 thing. wes, SPL or first, did not move for a pay cut....
Hibs4Ever
06/01/2006, 7:05 AM
We played hearts around the same time, and with only half of our first team out we were 3-0 up at half time. Ended up 3-3 after we took all our first teamers off and put a 41 year old in goal. We'd easily cope in the SPL IMO, as would Derry, Drogs and Shels. Hoolahans comments are a bit rich coming from someone who spent half his eL career on the bench. Easily the most over-rated player in the league
You played Hibs, not Hearts :rolleyes: And as discussed earlier you played Hibs youth team. In 2nd half we brought on 3 players who are only making 1st team appearance now and tore City apart.
Pablo Escobar
06/01/2006, 10:09 AM
Joe Gamble didn't make it at Barnet when they were in the conference (i was a regular visiter to Underhill when I lived i London at the time)
He was their best player for Chr1st sake, this just confirms what I thought, You don't know what you're talking about!
Pablo Escobar
06/01/2006, 10:11 AM
You played Hibs, not Hearts :rolleyes: And as discussed earlier you played Hibs youth team. In 2nd half we brought on 3 players who are only making 1st team appearance now and tore City apart.
That would be City's U-21/Youth team! and we still won! Ha!
Also, I shudder to think what the score would have been if we had played our 1st 11!:p
Hibs4Ever
06/01/2006, 10:33 AM
That would be City's U-21/Youth team! and we still won! Ha!
Also, I shudder to think what the score would have been if we had played our 1st 11!:p
Likewise with our 1st team:p
Hibs4Ever
06/01/2006, 10:36 AM
He was their best player for Chr1st sake, this just confirms what I thought, You don't know what you're talking about!
How do YOU know he was their best player????
I think Giulliano Grazioli and Ben Strevens might have an opinion on that. Especially Graziolli as he was leagues top goalscorer:rolleyes:
Also take note, the conference in England was the best and highest level of football Gamble could get over there. And he's a top player in our league
ollie
06/01/2006, 11:08 AM
Likewise with our 1st team
And he's a top player in our league
:confused: :confused:
who or what do you support?
you make reference to hibs and the EL as our
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