What happens when we "kick the bucket"?

[the 12 th man]

Well, does the "Harp Farm" exist? or do we just turn into fish bait?.
Me,I believe in something more after death just not sure exactly what though.

[Peadar]

Well, does the "Harp Farm" exist? or do we just turn into fish bait?.

Fish bait, of course.
It's a bit arrogant of us to believe that the planet spent a few billion years evolving just so that we could exist for a tiny fraction of it, on our way to a better place.

[tricky_colour]

In an infinite universe it would be foolish to rule anything out, however
unlikely its certain to happen.

[sligoman]

I believe in re-incarnation;).

[Snoop Drog]

I believe in re-incarnation;).

Since the Drogs won the Cup, I do too.

[pineapple stu]

Fish bait, of course.
It's a bit arrogant of us to believe that the planet spent a few billion years evolving just so that we could exist for a tiny fraction of it, on our way to a better place.
Not unless you consider the whole God stuff. And I haven't heard any atheist come up with a good explanation for the existence of the universe (yes, it came from the Big Bang, but where did that come from?). The universe is far too complicated to be set in motion all on its own...

[Anto McC]

We go to heaven,end of!!

[liam88]

My personal belief

Pergotory first for all the small sins (scraps, shoplifting, being mean to people, kicking dogs) then once all of these are worked off (the worse you were the longer it lasts) you are into heaven. Only Jesus and probably some of the Pope's passed straight through pergotory.

If you we really evil however i.e. you commited murder, rape, torture then your off to hell for all eternity.

I do however believe that "murder" etc. counts in the ethical term not the legal term. Personally I don't think that God will condem to hell the man who shot the paedophuile who raped his 12 year old daughter. I do believe the Myra Hindley is in hell.

Obviously there's a lot of things I don't understand/am unsure about surrounding issues such as repentance, euthenasia and abortion. I'm not going to write anything about this because to be perfectly honest I don't know. I'm pretty sure on my beliefs above (i.e. peadophile's going to hell) but I am very uncetain on those 3 issues in particular and as well as causing an argument by doing so I just wouldn't feel comfortable saying "if you do this your in heaven and that your in hell" when I'm very unsure myself.

[hamish]

I believe in re-incarnation

Yep, as an Athlone Town fan..............now, that's real Heaven Sligoman.:p :D

[tricky_colour]

Fish bait, of course.
It's a bit arrogant of us to believe that the planet spent a few billion years evolving just so that we could exist for a tiny fraction of it, on our way to a better place.

It was created in seven days, not billions of years :rolleyes:

[Snoop Drog]

Well, does the "Harp Farm" exist?

I reckon if it possible that Home Farm still exists then the Harp Farm could too...

[Marked Man]

Not unless you consider the whole God stuff. And I haven't heard any atheist come up with a good explanation for the existence of the universe (yes, it came from the Big Bang, but where did that come from?). The universe is far too complicated to be set in motion all on its own...

Haven't heard any believers explain where the whole god thing came from. If there is a god, presumably it's MORE complicated than the universe. So in explaining the occurence of the universe via the existence of god, we leave ourselves with a bigger explanatory puzzle.

Fish bait.

[Plastic Paddy]

Sum of all knowledge - all rational scientific knowledge = faith

Harp farm it is.

:ball: PP

[finlma]

Worm food - simple as that. Make the most of your years here.

[Macy]

Worm food for me too.

If there is a god, he's one evil untc imo, so I'd rather not have what he has in store if he does exist tbh.

[exile]

some early christian religions (i.e cathars and other agnostics )belive earth was actualy hell and when you die you just went to heaven , now watching city being beaten in the cup final by drogs actualy renforced my belief in that train of thought .

[Peadar]

The universe is far too complicated to be set in motion all on its own...

I never claimed otherwise but why do we think that we're so significant that there's an afterlife for us!
A few billion mites crwaling on a small planet, where we're not the most numerous or the most ancient. In the greater scheme of things, we're just another life form. We cling onto the idea of heaven for comfort. We have psychos blowing themselves and others up, thinking it will get them there quicker.

After trade unions, religion is the root of all evil!

[pineapple stu]

I never claimed otherwise but why do we think that we're so significant that there's an afterlife for us!
Never claimed that there isn't an afterlife for anything else. Don't see why there isn't an afterlife for cats and dogs and all. Or why there wouldn't be an afterlife for little green aliens on other planets.

What do you make of the events in Israel around 4BC to 30AD, when - so goes the story - the man himself told us there was an afterlife? Or are you one of those people who chooses not to believe any of that happened because it's easier that way? (Not trying to wind you up - just trying to start a conversation here. Honestly!)


Haven't heard any believers explain where the whole god thing came from.
Sure God always was and always shall be - that's just one of the great mysteries of religion we have to try and accept and not understand! ;)

[Green Army Girl]

I never claimed otherwise but why do we think that we're so significant that there's an afterlife for us!
A few billion mites crwaling on a small planet, where we're not the most numerous or the most ancient. In the greater scheme of things, we're just another life form. We cling onto the idea of heaven for comfort. We have psychos blowing themselves and others up, thinking it will get them there quicker.

After trade unions, religion is the root of all evil!


So Missionaries, sisters of charity, St Vincent De Paul, these are all associated with religion and i wouldnt consider them "the root of all evil".

I do believe in life after death and i do believe there is a God and i defo think i might be waiting outside that gate wit St Peter for a good while before im forgiven my sins;)

[Peadar]

What do you make of the events in Israel around 4BC to 30AD, when - so goes the story - the man himself told us there was an afterlife?

I believe that a man called Jesus went around telling people that he was the son of God. He was charming enough to build up a following and over time, the story of his life grew into legend.

I don't believe he was actually anything other than an arrogant man with strong views.
I see people like this all the time in Cork. ;)

I'd like to ask a question of my own, what do people think is the purpose of an afterlife?

Is life on earth like a group stage or a qualifying round before the main event in heaven?

If there was life on an atom, would that lifeform think that we were their God and that after death, they'd join us in an afterlife?

[Green Army Girl]

I think that life on earth now is like a qualifier (if your from Wales then ur fcuked:) ) you get crosses in your life and depending on how you cope with them you get into "heaven" where you dont have to worry about any crosses etc.

Alot of people that have lost someone close believe that they will meet them again and thats what keeps them going, so maybe its not such a bad thing to believe in. If you dont believe in an afterlife then i presume you dont celebrate days like St Patricks Day, St Stephens Day etc as these lads i presume are in "heaven"

[finlma]

Relision is good for giving people something to hope for and be a good person for but when you die you die.

Its so far-fetched that there can be anything else. Where is this heaven? How will we all fit? Where do the ants and other creatures go? What about other religions - surely we can't all by right.

There are way too many questions when science can really prove how we came into being.

[Green Army Girl]

I agree we cant all be right but as a Catholic believe that we have the true religion. I suppose it all comes down to faith its just a pity that we cant post on foot.ie when we all find out:(

[finlma]

I agree we cant all be right but as a Catholic believe that we have the true religion.

Is that not an extremely niaive view GAG? Have you studied all other religions in depth - because without doing so thats a very unfair statement to make.
I'm sure there's a little Muhammed on the Iran foot.ie claiming that Islam is the one true religion.

There are way too many holes in religion that make it unbelievable for me.

[Green Army Girl]

Is that not an extremely niaive view GAG? Have you studied all other religions in depth - because without doing so thats a very unfair statement to make.
I'm sure there's a little Muhammed on the Iran foot.ie claiming that Islam is the one true religion.

There are way too many holes in religion that make it unbelievable for me.

I was raised believing the true religion was Roman Catholic and thats what i believe if im wrong im wrong but being Catholic is part of who i am and if i didnt believe that i was right then wat would be the point in me saying im a Catholic.

[finlma]

I was raised believing the true religion was Roman Catholic and thats what i believe if im wrong im wrong but being Catholic is part of who i am and if i didnt believe that i was right then wat would be the point in me saying im a Catholic.

I was raised believing in Santa Claus and Catholicism- not everything you're told is true. Its up to you to go and find out the truth for yourself.

[Macy]

If you dont believe in an afterlife then i presume you dont celebrate days like St Patricks Day, St Stephens Day etc as these lads i presume are in "heaven"
Eh no. You could just think they were good blokes while they were on earth.

[Green Army Girl]

Eh no. You could just think they were good blokes while they were on earth.

But they wouldnt have been Saints if they hadnt had made it to Heaven and been recognised by the church. As for finding the truth ill say it again i believe that i have found the truth in being a Catholic thats my faith thats what i believe in if i am wrong then thats fine but while im here on earth ill be an Irish Roman Catholic im not asking anyone else to believe in what i believe.

[finlma]

But they wouldnt have been Saints if they hadnt had made it to Heaven and been recognised by the church.

Who can prove they made it to heaven? I'd agree with Macy - I'd celebrate them being good blokes just like Ghandi (who isn't a Catholic).

GAG, just as a matter of interest what do you believe happens to non-Catholics such as Muslims, Buddhists, non-believers like myself and Macy who are good people? Do we get sent to this Catholic hell for being non-believers or does something else happen to us? Just interested in what any staunch Catholics think about this.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Eh no. You could just think they were good blokes while they were on earth.

I don't even have to believe they were good guys. Could've been scumbags for all I know. I'm still as entitled as any christian to my public holidays and bank holidays.

GAG - as you believe that RC is the 'true faith' how comfortable are you celebrating Paddies day when Patrick was demonstrably a Presbyterian 1100 years before the term even existed? Ignored numerous summons' to Rome, founded churches and moved on each time leaving them entirely autonomous ... that's straightforward presbyterianism. Paddy was a Prod.

Liam -this purgatory you speak of that most popes avoid -how long do you reckon JPII might spend there working off throwing his might behind opposing basic sex education and family planning in the developing world and instructing uneducated impoverished latin american and african kids to "breed for the church"?
Will he get concurrent time for canonising a young lady who opted for death rather than face the stigma of undergoing a sexual assault? Will he get more concurrent time for canonising at least one copycat?

Heaven? No thanks -I've seen the guestlist and couldn't be arsd with it.

[Green Army Girl]

Wat annoys me when we talk about religion is that if i say what i believe automatically people think i have something against people with no religion. I think that once you havent murdered someone no matter what your religion is you make it into heaven and the day that you get there you find out what religion was the true one but everyone is allowed in a bit like Club M


And about Paddy being a protestant if you can tell me Jesus God the whole Bible is aload of s*it then who is to say that story about St Patrick isnt.

I knew at some stage the child abuse etc would come into it. The question was do you believe in heaven but i respect your view Lionel but at the end of the day i believe in my religion.

[Lionel Ritchie]

:eek: I didn't bring child abuse into anything!!

GAG -let's not fight -it's christmas!!!:D

Salient point well made about Patrick btw. Toúché

There's an excellent scene in South Park where everyone -and I mean everyone -arrives in hell and many are curious as to why they're there because they belonged to whichever faith. The devil chap with the clipboard clears it up saying " the answer they were looking for upstairs was 'Mormons' ...that answer again 'Mormons' ..." priceless.

[Green Army Girl]

:eek: I didn't bring child abuse into anything!!

GAG -let's not fight -it's christmas!!!:D

Salient point well made about Patrick btw. Toúché

There's an excellent scene in South Park where everyone -and I mean everyone -arrives in hell and many are curious as to why they're there because they belonged to whichever faith. The devil chap with the clipboard clears it up saying " the answer they were looking for upstairs was 'Mormons' ...that answer again 'Mormons' ..." priceless.

I could never fight with you Lionel for a start i love your music and absoultley priceless, Happy CHRISTmas just joking ;)

[exile]

there is no doubt in my mind this is the true relgion

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

[pete]

Every religion believes its the best one as bit like every football fan who supports the best team. Do people really believe everything that was written in the bible or do they just pick the bits they like?

Sure what has religion ever done for us anyway? If you were an alien looking down on the planet you'd probably think the religions were the armys of the planet.

The universe is too big (we are surely only located in some small corner of) to know whats out there. I;d be more inclined to believe in good & bad karma...

[Lionel Ritchie]

I believe in good and bad Korma.

Now Uncle Bens do a fine Korma
-St Tescos own brand however is barf in a jar.

[Macy]

But they wouldnt have been Saints if they hadnt had made it to Heaven and been recognised by the church.
How do we now they made it to heaven at all?

btw If we don't get to heaven, are we "Lost"? ;)

[Peadar]

Ill put it this way folks, you know that you're alive now and there's no way to prove afterlife exisits, so you should make sure that you enjoy life to the full.

Go out, enjoy life, procreate and try not to p!ss others off.

[hamish]

I was raised believing in Santa Claus not everything you're told is true.

:eek:

Th....th...th...th...there's no Santa Clause????:eek:

Ah Jaysus, say it isn't so finlma, please tell us you're kidding.:(

If there's a Heavan and Hell, then I'm fcuked.

[Peadar]

you get crosses in your life and depending on how you cope with them you get into "heaven"


That's John O'Shea fukked so then!
He's never in his life been able to cope with a cross! :D

[pete]

btw If we don't get to heaven, are we "Lost"? ;)

I think thats what been suggested. ;)

[pineapple stu]

Every religion believes its the best one as bit like every football fan who supports the best team. Do people really believe everything that was written in the bible or do they just pick the bits they like?
Read a book on this - "Truth and Fiction in the Da Vinci Code", which looked at the Bible and what it did and didn't say. There's more Gospels than were included in the Bible, including one - the Coptic Gospel of Thomas - which features Jesus as a kid "withering" everyone who annoys him. Would be a great power! :) But on the Four Gospels we do have, they were all written 100 years or so after Jesus' death, so the stories probably have changed a bit. But back then, when people were largely illiterate, I'd say oral stories would have been well retained, which would mean that a fair bit of what's related did actually happen. (Whether the important bits happened is another story!).

Jesus was referred to in some - though not many - Roman writings of the day. There was a census in and around the time he was born (I think it was in 4BC, which is why that's the commonly given year of birth for him). It's reckoned unlikely that the family moved to Bethlehem for the census as it would have been a bit awkward to move the entire country to their fore-fore-fore-father's place of birth just to count people, but then again, the remnants of a similar system exist still in Switzerland.

Also, Jesus is mentioned in the Koran as a prophet who was crucified. I think he then turns into a bird and flies up to Heaven, which is probably a metaphor for his soul rising to Heaven. I mention this to suggest that the different religions mightn't be as different and irreconcilable as you'd think.

(Not pretending I'm an expert here - correct me if needs be)


There are way too many questions when science can really prove how we came into being.
I think most scientists will agree that we still know nothing about we came into being. They know the mechanics of it - the Big Bang, the birds and the bees and all that - but have no idea about the mechanics of the mechanics. Stephen Hawking - who has done a fair bit of research into the Big Bang - notes that science is usually interested in the immediate aftermath of the Big Bang; the first 0.0000001 seconds or so. He is happy to believe that anything before that is the work of God, which isn't science's business.


Sure what has religion ever done for us anyway? If you were an alien looking down on the planet you'd probably think the religions were the armies of the planet.
That's true. And what's worse is that each side - let's call them George Bush v the extremists - believes they're in the right when they're both quite clearly in the wrong. It's at times like this you hope there is a hell so Bush can spend a while there realising he was wrong. Or do I now go to hell for saying that...?


I'd like to ask a question of my own, what do people think is the purpose of an afterlife?
Religion would say that to ask that question is to look into the mind of God, which we must never do. In other words, who are we to wonder why there's an afterlife? If there is a God, and he has decided to make an afterlife, why question it?


Ill put it this way folks, you know that you're alive now and there's no way to prove afterlife exisits, so you should make sure that you enjoy life to the full.

Go out, enjoy life, procreate and try not to p!ss others off.
And that's definitely true. Be nice to each other, concentrate on the now and you'll be grand*.

* - don't hold it against me if that turns out to be wrong! :p

[Green Army Girl]

How do we now they made it to heaven at all?

btw If we don't get to heaven, are we "Lost"? ;)

Well they wouldnt have been cannonised by the Church (i think that what it is called) we have no proof they made it to heaven but because of wat i believe i believe they did, when it comes down to it its just faith in your own religion.


I believe West Ham are better than any other club, now if thats not faith wat is ;)

[Lionel Ritchie]

Thomas' Gospel -which I believe was written in aramaic -is the one referred to in the movie Stigmata where Patricia Arquette (mmm mmm absolutley I would) gets cuts and grazes and starts babbling in tongues.

As a historical document it's said to be at least as credible and probable as a couple of the recognised gospels -but contains some instructions purportedly from Jesus that kind of fcuks up your gameplan if you're setting your stall out as a brokeridge house between man and God -which is pretty much what the Catholic Church -and plenty others to be fair -do.

As all movies do -the play around with the facts considerably -more here (http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/stigmata.htm)

[hamish]

I believe West Ham are better than any other club, now if thats not faith wat is


LOL- totally agree with you there GAG. Hammers/Irons fan myself:D

[pineapple stu]

Thomas' Gospel -which I believe was written in aramaic
There are two Gospels of Thomas, just to clarify. One is in aramaic (think you're right on that), the other is in Coptic.

[the 12 th man]

If there's a Heavan and Hell, then I'm fcuked.

Wouldn't say you'd be on your own there,you'd be in good company with a good few foot.ies :eek: :D (me included:o )

[hamish]

Wouldn't say you'd be on your own there,you'd be in good company with a good few foot.ies :eek: (me included

We're all doomed, doomed, I say.:D

Ah, I'd settle for a spell in Purgatory since the Pope abolished Limbo last week. At least, with Purgatory, Heaven's the next stop.:D

[Peadar]

At least, with Purgatory, Heaven's the next stop.:D

There's a smoking ban in purgatory though. :D

[ken foree]

welllll there's this great book (DMT: the spirit molecule) by a u.s. doctor that describes the amazing properties of this naturally occurring molecule which is created in our pineal gland. the mysterious pineal is often referred to as 'the third eye' and was called the 'seat of the soul' by the french philosopher descartes. it's situated right between the left and right halves of the brain and is protected from the brain by a very sophisticated tissue system. melatonin (sleep molecule) is manufactured there. so is di-methyltryptamine

anyway, the first squirt of DMT is released from the pineal gland at roughly 47 days of life, the same time your sex is determined in your mother's womb. the theory proposed by dr. strassman is that this 'seeds' your consciousness, your soul entering your body. the 2nd 'natural' time DMT is released is when you die (these are measurable, known facts). in-between life and death, people might experience near-death situations, night-terror dreams, and other scenarios that may be caused by a leaky pineal: ultra-real situations with profound, often disturbing effects. strassman postulates that schizophrenia might be (in part at least) caused by DMT.

he tested subjects intravenously injected with the molecule and found/recorded amazing results. people experienced shamanistic, out of body, experiences, where they often communicated with 'higher beings' and traveled to different planes of existence, often exhilarating, often terrifying. great book, gives credence to many beliefs, and most convincingly to the hope that the soul has a biological basis.