View Full Version : Jason Byrne now on again - Set to sign in Jan
Oh yes what a terrible problem we have by having the best striker in the eL!!
I am talking about agreeing the deal as you well know not Jayo as a player
higgins
19/12/2005, 4:15 PM
The deal fell through because Shels value Byrne higher than Djurgardens, simple as that.
Shels value Jason Byrne higher then half of what Djurgardens do!
If Shels were to get 100% of any deal then I think they may have agreed to 400K. Maybe as it was an initial offer they thought they could say no and at least Djurgarden would come back saying 400K is our max?
But shels getting 200K and losing Byrne is not good business.
Shels getting 400K and above would be good business but for that to happen you need Bray, Djurgarden or both to move on the initial offer.
Your all saying why should Bray move and I agree why should they.
as for offering David Tyrell Kevin Doherty or Gary O'Neill??? are you crazy!! We are about to lost our main striker and to make the deal happen we show someone else the door who may not even want to go to Bray.. We would really win the league next year having got rid of Fitzpatrick Jayo and O'Neill in two weeks :eek:
bigmac
19/12/2005, 4:21 PM
I know for a fact that we were never consulted once about the deal, and as i said why should we have been, this was between Shels, Jason and DIF. They didnt agree to terms and cancelled it.
Eh, didn't I say that?
Shels were offered 400K, turned it down straight away, no hesitation, and that was the end of it. Everything else is just hypothetical. Interesting, but hypothetical.
I completely agree with what you've said Roo. If Shels had come looking to negotiate then Bray would have sat down and tried to work something out that would maximise their gains. But they didn't, so they didn't :D
Shels value Jason Byrne higher then half of what Djurgardens do!
If Shels were to get 100% of any deal then I think they may have agreed to 400K. Maybe as it was an initial offer they thought they could say no and at least Djurgarden would come back saying 400K is our max?
But shels getting 200K and losing Byrne is not good business.
Shels getting 400K and above would be good business but for that to happen you need Bray, Djurgarden or both to move on the initial offer.
Your all saying why should Bray move and I agree why should they.
as for offering David Tyrell Kevin Doherty or Gary O'Neill??? are you crazy!! We are about to lost our main striker and to make the deal happen we show someone else the door who may not even want to go to Bray.. We would really win the league next year having got rid of Fitzpatrick Jayo and O'Neill in two weeks :eek:
Yep, just a little..... :p
pineapple stu
19/12/2005, 5:26 PM
Did Shels not realise what they were doing when the 50% sell on clause was put in? It does seem to be a high %. Is this the normal figure?
UCD will get 50% of any money Derry ever receive for selling Ciarán Martyn, so it's not unique anyway.
I said IF, and it's a hypotetical if, Shels would have accepted the deal if Bray reduced the sell on clause, if I was Bray I would have been eager to do so, as that beats getting nothing should Byrne remain at Shels or leave later on at much less money possibley nothing depending on his age and contract situation...[I]t would make sense on their part to accept a reduction percentage wise and in the process earn far more than they ever expected in what was essentially free money for them.
Whie I appreciate that everything on this thread about Bray seems to have arisen out of conjecture with no evidence to suggest anything happened at all, it would set a very dangerous precedent for Bray to agree to settle for less than what is theirs. If Bray were to agree to, say, 35%, then you'd have bigger clubs everywhere trying to pressure smaller clubs into re-writing their own agreements. While, in this one case, Bray could arguably gain, they'd stand to lose in the long-term if this sort of thing became a regular occurrence. If it were UCD, and if it had actually happened, I'd be pleased that we hadn't given into such bullying.
Slash/ED
19/12/2005, 9:59 PM
Whie I appreciate that everything on this thread about Bray seems to have arisen out of conjecture with no evidence to suggest anything happened at all, it would set a very dangerous precedent for Bray to agree to settle for less than what is theirs. If Bray were to agree to, say, 35%, then you'd have bigger clubs everywhere trying to pressure smaller clubs into re-writing their own agreements. While, in this one case, Bray could arguably gain, they'd stand to lose in the long-term if this sort of thing became a regular occurrence. If it were UCD, and if it had actually happened, I'd be pleased that we hadn't given into such bullying.
Well that is a fair point, the best one raised on this so far, but how likely is it that this amount of money will ever be talked about in this regards in the future for Bray in a situation like this? In this case I'd still say they'd be better off taking the money. But it's all hypotetical, but if roles were reversed and it was Shels in the position of earning more money on the deal then they're ever likely to on another deal like it and far more than budgeted for I'd be looking for them to try and negociate.
Yes we would, we would be missing out on money that is rightly ours.
Sentiments don't pay wages, or roofs for stadiums for that matter.
To quote you - "The only thing Bray may have done is stop their chance of getting a nice little earner from Byrne" What is that suppoed to mean ?
Again, why should we accept a reduction in the fee when it was what both clubs agreed on in the 1st place ? why should Bray sell themselves short to suit Shelbourne
If you consider earing more money than nothing selling yourself short you've an odd view of the business world. and what I said was essentially that.
But as has been said, there is no evidence at all to suggest Shels approached Bray, it's all hypotetical on here. In fact you even said "I know for a fact that we were never consulted once about the deal" so what in the name of christ are you whinging about? And us give you Tyrrell, Doherty and Gary O'Neill? :D :D Sure we'll throw in Ronaldinho too.
MrJoeSoap
19/12/2005, 10:14 PM
Well that is a fair point, the best one raised on this so far, but how likely is it that this amount of money will ever be talked about in this regards in the future for Bray in a situation like this? In this case I'd still say they'd be better off taking the money. But it's all hypotetical, but if roles were reversed and it was Shels in the position of earning more money on the deal then they're ever likely to on another deal like it and far more than budgeted for I'd be looking for them to try and negociate.
There is also the fact that had Bray (hypothetically) accepted a 'comprimise' deal, at say 30% or 35% that they wouldn't have had Jayo banging another 4 or 5 goals past them next season! Thats gotta be worth something to them! :D
I can see both sides of the argument though, Bray shouldn't be forced to comprimise, but not doing so means they probably lose out on getting any money whatsoever. I'm sure if the roles were reversed I would like to get a chunk of the money, especially if it meant a player who is a major goal threat leaving the country!
UCD will get 50% of any money Derry ever receive for selling Ciarán Martyn, so it's not unique anyway.
Really???!!! I wonder is that the standard deal in transfers in Ireland? It's weird, means the club that initially sold the player always stands to make more from the sale than the current club.
Really???!!! I wonder is that the standard deal in transfers in Ireland? It's weird, means the club that initially sold the player always stands to make more from the sale than the current club.
Might be a standard deal, but how many players actually transfer? Usually signed when out of contract...
Well that is a fair point, the best one raised on this so far, but how likely is it that this amount of money will ever be talked about in this regards in the future for Bray in a situation like this? In this case I'd still say they'd be better off taking the money. But it's all hypotetical, but if roles were reversed and it was Shels in the position of earning more money on the deal then they're ever likely to on another deal like it and far more than budgeted for I'd be looking for them to try and negociate.
Sentiments don't pay wages, or roofs for stadiums for that matter.
If you consider earing more money than nothing selling yourself short you've an odd view of the business world. and what I said was essentially that.
But as has been said, there is no evidence at all to suggest Shels approached Bray, it's all hypotetical on here. In fact you even said "I know for a fact that we were never consulted once about the deal" so what in the name of christ are you whinging about? And us give you Tyrrell, Doherty and Gary O'Neill? :D :D Sure we'll throw in Ronaldinho too.
I raised the same point earlier on in the post, why should smaller clubs have to settle for 2nd best, If a contract is agreed then bloody well stick to it, if you can't then think of other ways of making up the short fall instead of trying to pass the blame on.......
A lot of people are using the word "hypotetical" a lot, there's nothing hypotetical about the suitation. Shels were offered quite a lot of Money for Jason Byrne, which 50% would have went to Bray, Shels were'nt happy so ended the deal. Thats it, no discusions, no comprimise. Shels did not contact Bray once with regards to it, so how can people say that Bray would have been better taking a reduction in the fee ?
The reason why Shels pulled the plug is because they were not happy what so ever and even if they could have managed to reduce the sell on clause they still would not have been happy with what they were getting..... Nothing wrong with that what so ever IMO
I think this was bad business by Bray. It would seem they sold him at low rate initially but got 50% sell on clause. However as they are now discovering 50% of nothing is still nothing so the size of sell on clause has affected the resale ability of Byrne.
I don't think this deal was ever going to happen at 200k from shels side & ever if Bray dropped their cut to 100k then 300k still not enough for Shels. I think Shels would need 400k net which i think would have needed big increase from Swedes & big percentage cut reduction from Bray.
How long before Shels & Bray will be pleading the poor mouth again. I seem to remember Shels were pleading poverty soon after buying Byrne in the first plaace.
bigmac
20/12/2005, 11:17 AM
I think this was bad business by Bray. It would seem they sold him at low rate initially but got 50% sell on clause. However as they are now discovering 50% of nothing is still nothing so the size of sell on clause has affected the resale ability of Byrne.
Yeah, perhaps the real point of warning is that in most cases, a 50% sell on clause could turn out to be worthless as it realistically acts as a deterrent to selling someone on.
How long before Shels & Bray will be pleading the poor mouth again. I seem to remember Shels were pleading poverty soon after buying Byrne in the first plaace.
Bray appear to be sensibly run at present. They're certainly not trying to pay transfer fees with players as some other clubs are....
Roo69
20/12/2005, 12:19 PM
I think this was bad business by Bray. It would seem they sold him at low rate initially but got 50% sell on clause. However as they are now discovering 50% of nothing is still nothing so the size of sell on clause has affected the resale ability of Byrne.
I don't think this deal was ever going to happen at 200k from shels side & ever if Bray dropped their cut to 100k then 300k still not enough for Shels. I think Shels would need 400k net which i think would have needed big increase from Swedes & big percentage cut reduction from Bray.
How long before Shels & Bray will be pleading the poor mouth again. I seem to remember Shels were pleading poverty soon after buying Byrne in the first plaace.
Did you just post the 1st thing that came into your head or did you even bother reading the thread ?
How in the name of fcuk is this bad business by Bray ? We have NOTHING to do with the deal between Shels and DIF ! If Shels find the price unaccectable, then thats not our fault.
Why should we, as you put it "take a big percentage cut reduction" ? Why in the name of god should we give up €100,000 or so for no reason what so ever, to make Shels happy and financially better off than us from the deal..... Personally i would prefer nothing than to be fcuked over by one of the "bigger" clubs.
We might'nt have much but we are one of the best run clubs in Ireland, we don't owe a penny to anyone, i doubt any other club could say that.
MrJoeSoap
20/12/2005, 12:35 PM
That was never going to happen, 400K was a big bucks offer in swedish terms.
Swedish clubs were spending Ł400k (Sterling) nearly ten years ago.
"We might'nt have much but we are one of the best run clubs in Ireland, we don't owe a penny to anyone, i doubt any other club could say that.[/QUOTE]"
UCD are a club that dont owe a penny to anyone so that throws that argument out the window.
50% can be looked at in 2 ways. Great business by Bray if he's sold on and a slight deterrent (from Shels point of few) to sell him on as they will want to get the most out of it (as in money for themselves and not compared to Bray).
Still 200 grand is not bad but because the league is getting more recognition for the players that are in it, they can do better and thats why Shels were no push-overs and fair play to them.
pineapple stu
20/12/2005, 1:13 PM
We don't owe a penny to anyone; I doubt any other club could say that.
I wish people would stop throwing out this phrase. The last time I saw Bray's accounts (about two years ago - they can be obtained from the CRO website), they were solvent purely by means of directors' loans, a nominal Player Valuation asset and a large PAYE liability (I would imagine deriving from a standard agreement with Revenue to pay PAYE one year in arrears). I don't doubt that Bray are one of the better run teams in the league, but they do have debts as do every other club.
I wish people would stop throwing out this phrase. The last time I saw Bray's accounts (about two years ago - they can be obtained from the CRO website), they were solvent purely by means of directors' loans, a nominal Player Valuation asset and a large PAYE liability (I would imagine deriving from a standard agreement with Revenue to pay PAYE one year in arrears). I don't doubt that Bray are one of the better run teams in the league, but they do have debts as do every other club.
No we actually dont have any debts, everything has been cleared
pineapple stu
20/12/2005, 1:23 PM
You'd be doing well to get that cleaned in two years...
Not saying Bray are in crisis, but no club - no company, in fact - owes absolutely nothing.
You'd be doing well to get that cleaned in two years...
Not saying Bray are in crisis, but no club - no company, in fact - owes absolutely nothing.
Well we might owe an odd couple of hundard euro here or there, but ya know what i mean when i say we owe nothing, unlike the likes of Bohs, Shels, Pats, Waterford etc....
pineapple stu
20/12/2005, 1:36 PM
Well we might owe an odd couple of hundard euro here or there, but ya know what I mean when I say we owe nothing, unlike the likes of Bohs, Shels, Pats, Waterford etc....
You might want to look at a copy of Bray Wanderers Limited's accounts then, easily obtainable for public perusal if you have a credit card from www.CRO.ie. Creditors of over E500k, with negative shareholders' funds of E200k and a loss for 2003 of E130k. The 2004 accounts aren't available and appear to be late with the Companies Office, which means about another E300 due there as well. 'Fraid Bray quite simply don't "don't owe a penny to anyone".
Again, I don't wish to imply that that's Bray are in crisis, because I don't know about that. That's probably a typical balance sheet for an eL team. But, with respect, it does prove that you're talking nonsense.
TheOwl
20/12/2005, 1:38 PM
I understand Bray’s situation, BUT, if Shelbourne had negotiated a 50% sell on clause with Arsenal for Anthony Stokes, and some club came in with a €2m bid for him, and Arsenal said no way are we selling him because we are only going to get €1m for him, then if I was a Shels official, I’d be straight on the phone to Arsenal looking to see if some deal can be cut. If got €600,000/700,000 in a situation like that I’d be delighted.
It is of course admirable of Bray to take the high moral ground on this issue, but business is business, and as far as I can see, Bray have missed out on a potential chance to earn some “free money”. Certainly, I’d feel more disappointed as a Bray fan that this deal has falling through than as a Shels fan, we, after all, still have a 25 goal-a-season striker.
I agree with the person who said that the 50% sell on clause is actually too much, it means Shels will have to get massive bucks for us to consider selling him, meaning we will also have to get massive bucks for this sell-on clause to be of any use to Bray. In future, Eircom League clubs should stick in a more realistic sell- on clause figure (say 25%), and look for more money up front instead.
You might want to look at a copy of Bray Wanderers Limited's accounts then, easily obtainable for public perusal if you have a credit card from www.CRO.ie. Creditors of over E500k, with negative shareholders' funds of E200k and a loss for 2003 of E130k. The 2004 accounts aren't available and appear to be late with the Companies Office, which means about another E300 due there as well. 'Fraid Bray quite simply don't "don't owe a penny to anyone".
Again, I don't wish to imply that that's Bray are in crisis, because I don't know about that. That's probably a typical balance sheet for an eL team. But, with respect, it does prove that you're talking nonsense.
2003is the main point in that post.........
I agree with the person who said that the 50% sell on clause is actually too much, it means Shels will have to get massive bucks for us to consider selling him, meaning we will also have to get massive bucks for this sell-on clause to be of any use to Bray. In future, Eircom League clubs should stick in a more realistic sell- on clause figure (say 25%), and look for more money up front instead.
Look at your esteemed leader - he agreed with the contract in the first place! If he didn't like the 50% figure, then he should've negotiated a lower one at the time. All in all, shows that Bray had more confidence in Byrne's ability than Shels.
pineapple stu
20/12/2005, 1:46 PM
2003is the main point in that post.........
Ah listen - your nett debt doubled from 2002 to 2003; there's no way it's been wiped in the two years since. That's half a million of debt to clear. I refuse to believe any eL club can clear that much debt that quickly. Harps, the model of debt clearance in recent years, have been doing it in chunks of E50k to E100k a year.
Surely you'd have to wait for the audited accounts to be in the CRO to tell for sure (or at least see the audited signed off accounts) - both of you.
Raheny Red
20/12/2005, 2:33 PM
Macy wrote:
All in all, shows that Bray had more confidence in Byrne's ability than Shels.
Just because one gobshíte at Shels agreed to this 50% clause hasn't got anything to do with having confidence in Jayo!!
If Bray had more confidence in Byrne - Why did they sell him :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:
Just because one gobshíte at Shels agreed to this 50% clause hasn't got anything to do with having confidence in Jayo!!
If Bray had more confidence in Byrne - Why did they sell him :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:
Because we were relegated that season and did'nt really have a choice in the matter as Jason wanted to stay and play in the premier, simple as that really.
Bray are probably comfortable as they don't show any ambition. They have massive catchment area in south dublin & have as much potential as most dublin clubs. The Carlisle grounds haven't been improived in 10 years either so 100k might have bought at roof or replaced the grass with concrete...?
Bray are probably comfortable as they don't show any ambition. They have massive catchment area in south dublin & have as much potential as most dublin clubs. The Carlisle grounds haven't been improived in 10 years either so 100k might have bought at roof or replaced the grass with concrete...?
A roof for a 100k ? replace the grass hill with a new concrete standing area ? jesus i cant wait to see the updates X if thats what you think you could get them for
Bray are probably comfortable as they don't show any ambition.
Says a supporter of a team that has let 3 of the best young players in the league walk away for just over €100,000 combined. :rolleyes: Bray have nearly got that off Shels for Byrne already....
and that fact that we got nearly for for loaning Zayed out for just 8 weeks as well..........
KR's Post
20/12/2005, 3:36 PM
Says a supporter of a team that has let 3 of the best young players in the league walk away for just over €100,000 combined. :rolleyes: Bray have nearly got that off Shels for Byrne already....
Exactly! Cork ego once again!
WeAreRovers
20/12/2005, 4:03 PM
I refuse to believe any eL club can clear that much debt that quickly.
We did, it's quite simple really. From €2.8m to €0 in the space of time it takes a judge to bang his gavel. ;)
KOH
We did, it's quite simple really. From €2.8m to €0 in the space of time it takes a judge to bang his gavel. ;)
KOH
Rofl! :D
Slash/ED
20/12/2005, 7:35 PM
Yeah, perhaps the real point of warning is that in most cases, a 50% sell on clause could turn out to be worthless as it realistically acts as a deterrent to selling someone on.
That's an excellent point imo. A smaller clause in future for any club could get you more money as with 50% it's going to take an absolutley huge offer for Shels to let him go, and in other cases with a clause that big it would be a similar story. The clause being so big could ultimately cost you alot of money.
ihatejam
20/12/2005, 7:43 PM
no you see its all about shels being too stingey and not letting jayo go onto bigger and better things..theres no two ways about it..that waster ollie byrne messed up a big move for jayo.if anyone deserved it it was him,and some big fat mess got in the way of that,im sure jayo "accepted" it well..
Slash/ED
20/12/2005, 7:45 PM
Yeah we should have let him go on a free if anyting. Paid for his flights over and threw a big going away party for him. Sure we don't want to stand in his way.
ihatejam
20/12/2005, 7:50 PM
Yeah we should have let him go on a free if anyting. Paid for his flights over and threw a big going away party for him. Sure we don't want to stand in his way.
now your just being a stupid shels fan..im sure if you asked him he'd tell you what he'd want to do..and thats leave and go...
Slash/ED
20/12/2005, 7:52 PM
I don't care if he wants to go, we're not a f*cking charity. If he wants go he'll wait until we agree a fee like every footballer at a club not in Ireland.
Vitruvian Man
20/12/2005, 10:52 PM
Is anybody with me in thinking that Shels have been punished for their own short sightedness / lack of ambition.
A 50% sell-on clause is an outrageous clause to agree to and it suggests to me that when Shels signed Byrne they were of the opinion that he would not ever be worth a huge heap of money.
Therefore they were probably thinking they were "doing" Bray at the time by offering 50% of nothing, as they saw it, instead of a bigger transfer fee.
Slash/ED
20/12/2005, 11:27 PM
I'd say it was more a case of Byrne being chased by pratically every club in the league so had all the power in the negociations.
Student Mullet
21/12/2005, 12:16 AM
Bray are probably comfortable as they don't show any ambition. They have massive catchment area in south dublin & have as much potential as most dublin clubs. The Carlisle grounds haven't been improived in 10 years either so 100k might have bought at roof or replaced the grass with concrete...?And they took a point home from Cork last season so should be thrown out of the league for holding a bigger club back.
sniffa
21/12/2005, 12:19 AM
Bray are probably comfortable as they don't show any ambition. They have massive catchment area in south dublin & have as much potential as most dublin clubs. The Carlisle grounds haven't been improived in 10 years either so 100k might have bought at roof or replaced the grass with concrete...?
In 10 years????? You must be joking! Nearly 90 years....just ask Michael Collins. :D :D :D
NY Hoop
21/12/2005, 11:33 AM
Is anybody with me in thinking that Shels have been punished for their own short sightedness / lack of ambition.
A 50% sell-on clause is an outrageous clause to agree to and it suggests to me that when Shels signed Byrne they were of the opinion that he would not ever be worth a huge heap of money.
Therefore they were probably thinking they were "doing" Bray at the time by offering 50% of nothing, as they saw it, instead of a bigger transfer fee.
Agree with that. Byrne was not sold cos oily couldnt stomach handing over €200,000 to Bray. In effect this would mean that Byrne will not be going anywhere and his career will not progress cos oily wont part with 50%. Truly he is scum.
KOH
Raheny Red
21/12/2005, 11:58 AM
Yes he is scum for not selling the best palyer in the eL for a paltry €200,000 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
NY Hoop
21/12/2005, 12:23 PM
Yes he is scum for not selling the best palyer in the eL for a paltry €200,000 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
He's scum cos he's holding back Byrnes career.
KOH
Raheny Red
21/12/2005, 1:15 PM
NY Hoop wrote:
He's scum cos he's holding back Byrnes career.
If I was in Oily's shoes I'd do the same. If I had the chance to hold back the best player in the eL I'd do it at all costs!!
I want the best for Shels not the best for one player!!
Yes he is scum for not selling the best palyer in the eL for a paltry €200,000 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
He'd be selling him €400,000. It's because of the deal Byrne signed that shels would only make €200,000 - that's his fault only.
Slash/ED
22/12/2005, 2:37 AM
He'd be selling him €400,000. It's because of the deal Byrne signed that shels would only make €200,000 - that's his fault only.
Something which is entirely irrelevent to the discussion, Olly values Byrne higher than 200,000 ergo he is scum. Good lord I love foot.ie.
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