Giles calls for all Ireland team

[co. down green]

Former Irish boss and TV pundit Johnny Giles believes that an All-Ireland team would be a fitting tribute to the late George Best.
Giles was part of the All-Ireland side that lost 4-3 to the mighty Brazil in a friendly at Lansdowne Road Dublin in 1973.
Two goal Paulo Ceasar, Jairzinho and Valdomiro netted for Brazil with Mick Martin, Terry Conroy and Derek Dougan replying for the home side.
The game, which raised money for charitable foundations on both sides of the border, saw the Irish selection, which included ex Celtic boss Martin O'Neill and Spurs goal stopper Pat Jennings, ostensibly called Shamrock Rovers X1.
However with players from the Republic and Northern Ireland included in the starting eleven it was very much the first side representative of the whole island.
After the game both sides received a standing ovation but 32 years after the applause has died an All-Ireland team still remains just an aspiration.
For various reasons soccer has managed to remain divided on this island since the early 1920’s and those that have tried to bridge that divide, most notably George Best and Derek Dougan, have seen their calls fall on deaf ears.
Dougan, a former Wolves striker who helped organise the event, had been captain of Northern Ireland for four years up to the historic meeting with the Samba Boys but was never selected to play for Northern Ireland again after that match. In recent times Dougan has again voiced his belief that an all Ireland team would benefit football all over the Island and improve the chances of qualifying for major championships. Dougan however faced a lot of abuse from n.i fans over the remarks and even had his image defaced on a mural on the Woodstock Road in Belfast, depicting n.i players who hailed from the east of the city.

In his lifetime Best expressed his wish to see an All- Ireland team.


Last March the United legend was quoted as saying.

"At any given time both the Republic and Northern Ireland have had some great world-class players.
I just believe in trying something. If it doesn't work, at least you've tried.I just hope it happens in my lifetime".

Sadly for Best, who passed away two weeks ago, his
dream of seeing an 32 county Irish team has yet to become a reality.

However former Leeds United midfield maestro Giles believes that with both North and South failing to qualify for next summers World Cup that it makes sense to pool our resources.

"The Irish rugby side is a thirty two county team and it makes sense that we should combine
as down through the years there has been some fantastic players representing both Northern
Ireland and the Republic of Ireland", said Giles.

" It would be a fitting tribute not only to George Best but to football on this island if there was an All Ireland side as it would enhance our chances of qualifying for the World Cup and European Championships", he added.

http://oneteaminireland.bravehost.com/

[jorge]

It was also one of George Bests wishes.

[ThatGuy]

I would be in favour of an all-Ireland team, but my fear would be that the manager would be pressurised into picking Northen Irish players for political reasons rather than ability reasons and we would probably end up fielding a weaker eleven. Just like what has traditionally effected the rugby team throughout the 20th century.

[thejollyrodger]

i think if the 32 county team did go ahead then there couldnt be any favouritism, just like rugby. That would have to be one of the agreements before it did go ahead.

Im in favour of it too, but i think we will have to wait until Genesis is fully implemented and then some northern clubs join the super league. After that is sucessful i imagine there would be more widespread backing for a all ireland soccer team.

[Roverstillidie]

merge the teams you have to merge the leagues and the associations.

never going to happen. whats in it for the IFA?

[thejollyrodger]

the IFA would have to go. A big pay off would sort them out.

[Plastic Paddy]

the IFA would have to go. A big pay off would sort them out.

I don't see why they would have to go when it's them (the IFA) who have the history and the longevity. Don't forget that it's the FAI who are the renegade splitters here!

:ball: PP

[thejollyrodger]

But the FAI are cashing in on the whole Ireland inc brand name. Its far more marketable than anything the IFA can dream up. The new Ireland crest is superior than the IFA one (IMHO). Foreigners can identify with it better, its almost like a popular brand name.

Plus the FAI has got its house in order (more or less) and after a relaunch of the EL and a new national football academy, it will be far better than the northern version.

[Roverstillidie]

the IFA would have to go. A big pay off would sort them out.

what, here is 5 grand each, please go away? we know you are a home nation and have power far beyond your size, but would you mind clearing off?
you have no comprehension of how cosy things are for the IFA and irish league clubs. pay off my arse.

and we havent even touched on politics.... sorry linfield, you have to play shamrock rovers and have to stand for amhrain na fiann in windsor. get real.


But the FAI are cashing in on the whole Ireland inc brand name. Its far more marketable than anything the IFA can dream up. The new Ireland crest is superior than the IFA one (IMHO). Foreigners can identify with it better, its almost like a popular brand name.

Plus the FAI has got its house in order (more or less) and after a relaunch of the EL and a new national football academy, it will be far better than the northern version.

the IFA will fold because the FAI have a sexier badge? :D I have read some serious ****e on here, but thats a winner. seriously,what the hell are you talking about?

[thejollyrodger]

Im on about marketability. Ireland Inc vs what the IFA can come up with. Go outside Ireland and you will know what im on about.

They get to join a better national side and a better league.

[Roverstillidie]

:rolleyes:
Im on about marketability. Ireland Inc vs what the IFA can come up with. Go outside Ireland and you will know what im on about.

They get to join a better national side and a better league.

at the moment the national side and league are better. wasnt always the case. might not be the case going forward either.

seriously, you reckon the IFA, founded in 1880, will voluntarily cease to exist because of 'ireland inc' fc? what exactly is that? and by irish, you mean the southern irish set up absorbing the 6 county set up. exactly how do you market a national side and to what end?

the reality is that the IFA represents the 'british' side of NI soccer, and they are ferociously 'loyal' when it suits them. up until very recently, and to an extent still, windsor on international days is a hostile place for a nationalist. no football at all is played on sunday in the north? why is that?

and you in your wisdom reckon they will do away with their association, national sides and league, with all the blazer related treats and jobs that come with being a home nation, out of some vague notion of making the irish national side better?

most of the IL sides would sink without a trace in the EL, so why would they get rid of a league that sees the belfast sides rarely have to leave belfast?

your naivety is quite touching. but it is naivety of the highest order.

[EnDai]

Roverstillidie makes total and utter sense. Nothing more to add than I agree with his points above. IFA will NOT succumb to such ideas.

[Dassa]

I really dont think people get the idea that alot of people on both sides of the border are happy with the present arrangements. I enjoy going to watch my country play in Belfast altough we could be doing with a better stadium just as i am sure people across the border enjoy watching their country play in Dublin what seems to be the problem.

[youngirish]

I'm happy with the current setup. It's bad enough that the English BBC commentators often mistakingly refer to Republic players as British but if we joined with the North they'd be claiming us as their own (particularly if we qualify for a major championship and they fail to like in 1994).

Also I think we should have the right to sing 'amhrain na fiann' at all our international games though I can understand this probably wouldn't be acceptable if we merged.

Nah leave it as it is and distance ourselves from the English as much as possible.

[mchurl]

cant see it happening. tink of it from a norn iron point of view. They would be doing well to get even two or three players in the side.

[colster]

I'm happy with the current setup. It's bad enough that the English BBC commentators often mistakingly refer to Republic players as British but if we joined with the North they'd be claiming us as their own (particularly if we qualify for a major championship and they fail to like in 1994).

Also I think we should have the right to sing 'amhrain na fiann' at all our international games though I can understand this probably wouldn't be acceptable if we merged.

Nah leave it as it is and distance ourselves from the English as much as possible.

Should we stop picking all English based players as well then? This hatred of the English is just mind bogglingly stupid.

As far as an All Island team goes I'd like to see it some day. I think it will happen eventually. Practically every other sport has a combined team. A combined team and league would be beneficial for both sides.

[thejollyrodger]

You havent a faintess clue Roverstillidie :rolleyes:. You need to cop on and get with the 21st century. Football in 1880 isnt relevent. Just because a organisation is old doesnt mean it has more rights. Football down south is more about football than up north. Up north it is an excuse for racial hatred and relgious hatred.

The fact that the IFA are still producing reports trying to stamp out the taig singing etc highlights the backwardness of it all. Any developement that have been made have been down south. Joining back up with the IFA would be a backward step


What is ireland inc' ? Well Ireland has an identifable imagine overseas. If you are a foreginer you associate certain things with ireland, hope, excitment, all non tangible things. Be in rugby or soccer. People can identify with the 26 counties. No one idenitfies with the 6 counties. Things have moved on and the IFA hasnt. My point is this, people want to see the republic of ireland and not northern ireland. So they can join in with us and not any other way.

We will continue to remaind relevent in the future because were progressive as opposed to the north which isnt. We also financially richer than they are and can put more resources into soccer (eg new stadia and the football academy).

The rest of your post rambles on about some other points about N.I football being so weak. Yes it is weak, any merger would have to be the north merging into the south because of size. The blazers up north would have to get a big pay off or try to apply for the jobs in the FAI. The anthem would have to be scrapped but the tricolour would still fly.

[youngirish]

Should we stop picking all English based players as well then? This hatred of the English is just mind bogglingly stupid.

No hatred I just find it mind boggingly stupid as you say that the English education system doesn't seem to be able to inform a staggering amount of it's students that they haven't ruled the Republic of Ireland for nearly 100 years. Maybe they'll cop it within the next 100 though probably not.

Don't see your point regarding English based players. I'm English based but am definitely Irish. Have no problems with English born players playing for Ireland once they don't think they are representing a British nation.

[Donal81]

You havent a faintess clue Roverstillidie :rolleyes:. You need to cop on and get with the 21st century. Football in 1880 isnt relevent. Just because a organisation is old doesnt mean it has more rights. Football down south is more about football than up north. Up north it is an excuse for racial hatred and relgious hatred.

The fact that the IFA are still producing reports trying to stamp out the taig singing etc highlights the backwardness of it all. Any developement that have been made have been down south. Joining back up with the IFA would be a backward step


What is ireland inc' ? Well Ireland has an identifable imagine overseas. If you are a foreginer you associate certain things with ireland, hope, excitment, all non tangible things. Be in rugby or soccer. People can identify with the 26 counties. No one idenitfies with the 6 counties. Things have moved on and the IFA hasnt. My point is this, people want to see the republic of ireland and not northern ireland. So they can join in with us and not any other way.

We will continue to remaind relevent in the future because were progressive as opposed to the north which isnt. We also financially richer than they are and can put more resources into soccer (eg new stadia and the football academy).

The rest of your post rambles on about some other points about N.I football being so weak. Yes it is weak, any merger would have to be the north merging into the south because of size. The blazers up north would have to get a big pay off or try to apply for the jobs in the FAI. The anthem would have to be scrapped but the tricolour would still fly.

Sorry Jollyrodger, you've lost me completely. I honestly haven't a clue what you're getting at here. The IFA will vote to simply disappear because its officials take a pay off? Northern supporters will happily go along with this? "The tricolour would still fly..." And that's end of discussion is it? I have no wish for a big political discussion on the tricolour but there might be a few problems in convincing one or two people in Northern Ireland, what do you reckon?

[Dassa]

comments from the jollyroger just make me happy that i have my own country to support. surely the reason the IFA are making reports is a good thing praised by both uefa and fifa yet a few people continue to pretend that football for all isnt making a difference. This idea that you have about football up north only there as a form of racial and religous hatred sums up your small minded attitude. I like many on both sides of the border go to watch my local team and international team not for any political reasons but I watch Loughgall because I always have, and feel a closeness to them. I go and watch NI because its my country and its great to see players born and bread within 100 miles of where I come from representing me. No racial or religous hatred in any of my motives there but dont let that stop you jollyroger from having your wee small minded rant.

[colster]

No hatred I just find it mind boggingly stupid as you say that the English education system doesn't seem to be able to inform a staggering amount of it's students that they haven't ruled the Republic of Ireland for nearly 100 years. Maybe they'll cop it within the next 100 though probably not.

Who cares if they do or not. What's that got to do with an All Island team? I find it mind boggingly stupid that there are Irish people who have a hang up about it.



Don't see your point regarding English based players. I'm English based but am definitely Irish. Have no problems with English born players playing for Ireland once they don't think they are representing a British nation.

you said


Nah leave it as it is and distance ourselves from the English as much as possible.

My response to that is if you want as much distance from the English as possible then does this mean not picking English based players?
Also, what possible reason would we have for distancing ourselves from the English?

[colster]

cant see it happening. tink of it from a norn iron point of view. They would be doing well to get even two or three players in the side.

They're not at their strongest at the moment but they would still get a lot of players in the squad. I don't know too much about their squad but from my limited knowledge I'd say the following would get into a combined squad.
Maik Taylor,
Roy Carroll
Aaron Hughes,
Damien Johnson,
Steven Davis,
David Healy,
Keith Gillespie.

From the above I could see Hughes at left or centre back, Davis Central Midfield, Gillespie on the Right Wing and Healy possibly up front.

[gspain]

Why pick Northern Ireland? I vote for Brazil. Much better than Northern Ireland.

1) already in the world cup.

2) got Ronaldinho, Romaldo et al

3) Just about as likely as the IFA/Northern Ireland fans to agree to a joint team.

In other words. This is not going to happen unless there is a single political entity which is highly unlikely. The GFA copperfastens NI's union with the rest of the UK for at least the next 50 years.

imagine if the England site starting talking about a joint team from these islands - F.A.I. would take a payoff etc, flag of st. Patrick already in the Union Jack, Duffer would solve problem on the left wing. We'd be up in arms (maybe even literally :D )

Yes there are All Ireland teams in other sports but that is because they were there BEFORE the Republic of Ireland was formed.

[youngirish]

Who cares if they do or not. What's that got to do with an All Island team?

As I said in my post a merging of the two Irish FAs will mean that the Republic team and their players will be fused more closely with the British home nations and ensure that our achievements will be more likely referred to in a British context rather than an Independent Irish one in the wider world (due to the far wider reaching power of their media).



Also, what possible reason would we have for distancing ourselves from the English?


You obviously don't have a reason but a lot of Irish people don't like to be linked too closely with the English. Not wanting to get too political on a football website but many have fought and died in the past so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English (British). Nice to see you appreciate it. You can say what you like about politics and football being mutually exclusive but unfortunately they aren't and merging with Northern Ireland would link the Irish team and nation more closely with the British in the eyes of many people.

[Lionel Ritchie]

You're on a hiding to nothing with this JR and entirely of your own making.

I'm baffled as to where you get your info that we're "progressive" and "richer".

Also how you can just tritely dismiss the relevance of the feelings of around a million people up there stuns me a bit.

I think to be honest it's exactly that "One size fits all" version of Irishness, Ireland and how we are percieved from the outside that puts -not only an All-Ireland team -but an All-Ireland geo-political state further and further away down the tracks.


As I said in my post a merging of the two Irish FAs will mean that the Republic team and their players will be fused more closely with the British home nations and ensure that our achievements will be more likely referred to in a British context rather than an Independent Irish one in the wider world (due to the far wider reaching power of their media). ...what? Like happens with our rugby team?


You obviously don't have a reason but a lot of Irish people don't like to be linked too closely with the English. Not wanting to get too political on a football website but many have fought and died in the past so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English (British). Nice to see you appreciate it. You can say what you like about politics and football being mutually exclusive but unfortunately they aren't and merging with Northern Ireland would link the Irish team and nation more closely with the British in the eyes of many people.

Sorry YI but that's confused barstool republican garbage.
At least as many on the same side fought and died so we'd have the right to just run our own show as friendly equals rather than "so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English". They're our next door neighbours ffs. We have a shared -even if forced and fractuous -history. Culturally we have WAY more in common with them than too many would like to admit.
As for the last sentence -I'm sure our fellow Irish nationalists from north of the border will be queing up to thank you for that sentiment.

[colster]

As I said in my post a merging of the two Irish FAs will mean that the Republic team and their players will be fused more closely with the British home nations and ensure that our achievements will be more likely referred to in a British context rather than an Independent Irish one in the wider world (due to the far wider reaching power of their media).

It's a fact that we'll always be associated with England. Most if not all of our squad became professional footballers in England so we are in fact dependent on England to produce our international team. How is having one all island team going to make this dependence greater? It may in fact have the opposite effect. An All Island league may encourage greater sponsorship and a more vibrant league which could produce home grown internationals.




You obviously don't have a reason but a lot of Irish people don't like to be linked too closely with the English. Not wanting to get too political on a football website but many have fought and died in the past so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English (British). Nice to see you appreciate it. You can say what you like about politics and football being mutually exclusive but unfortunately they aren't and merging with Northern Ireland would link the Irish team and nation more closely with the British in the eyes of many people.

I can't believe that you came up with this argument. Where is that coming from? We are an independent country. Having an all Island team in soccer is not going to change that?

Isn't it time that we put that behind us? They are our closest neighbour. Millions of Irish people have emigrated there when they had no where else to go. Millions of Irish people support their football clubs, watch their TV. We have an all island rugby, cricket, hockey and olympic teams. Even the GAA have an all island basis.
An all island team/league will be beneficial to the relationship between both parts of this country.

[Donal81]

You obviously don't have a reason but a lot of Irish people don't like to be linked too closely with the English. Not wanting to get too political on a football website but many have fought and died in the past so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English (British). Nice to see you appreciate it. You can say what you like about politics and football being mutually exclusive but unfortunately they aren't and merging with Northern Ireland would link the Irish team and nation more closely with the British in the eyes of many people.

If merging Ireland and Northern Ireland would make us more British in "the eyes of many people," what's all this fuss about a united Ireland? In fact, you make reference to them when you criticise Colster for not appreciating people who died. Like yourself youngirish, I don't fancy getting too political, there just seems to be a bit of a contradiction here.

[Dotsy]

You're on a hiding to nothing with this JR and entirely of your own making.

I'm baffled as to where you get your info that we're "progressive" and "richer".

Also how you can just tritely dismiss the relevance of the feelings of around a million people up there stuns me a bit.

I think to be honest it's exactly that "One size fits all" version of Irishness, Ireland and how we are percieved from the outside that puts -not only an All-Ireland team -but an All-Ireland geo-political state further and further away down the tracks.

...what? Like happens with our rugby team?



Sorry YI but that's confused barstool republican garbage.
At least as many on the same side fought and died so we'd have the right to just run our own show as friendly equals rather than "so we wouldn't have to be associated with the English". They're our next door neighbours ffs. We have a shared -even if forced and fractuous -history. Culturally we have WAY more in common with them than too many would like to admit.
As for the last sentence -I'm sure our fellow Irish nationalists from north of the border will be queing up to thank you for that sentiment.


Well said Lionel. A clear and rational response unlike some of the confused shiite in some of the posts on this thread.

[thejollyrodger]

lads up north, you can have your own opinion. But Im just calling it the way I see it.

[youngirish]

This forum also contains some of the most moronic politically correct bulls**t I've ever seen. Who's going to post next? Mary Whitehouse. Listen my point on this is plain and simple:

Republic of ireland = Independent of Britain, often confused abroad with being part of Britain due to the difficulty for most foreigners to distinguish between Northern and the Republic of Ireland (and I'm pretty sure the joint Rugby, Olympic teams etc don't help matters Lionel Ritchie whatever Utopian fantasy land you inhabit).
Northern Ireland = part of Britain, referred to as British
Merger of the two associations of our most popular (international) sport = more cloudiness as to whether Republic of Ireland players/people are British or otherwise.

PS - Lionel Ritchie, Dancing on the Ceiling is a kickin tune.

[Dassa]

We have an all island rugby, cricket, hockey and olympic teams. Even the GAA have an all island basis.
An all island team/league will be beneficial to the relationship between both parts of this country.

Have to disagree with you there, NI isnt linked to the ROI olympics team and a person from NI can either represent GB and NI or Ireland.

[colster]

This forum also contains some of the most moronic politically correct bulls**t I've ever seen. Who's going to post next? Mary Whitehouse. Listen my point on this is plain and simple:

Republic of ireland = Independent of Britain, often confused abroad with being part of Britain due to the difficulty for most foreigners to distinguish between Northern and the Republic of Ireland (and I'm pretty sure the joint Rugby, Olympic teams etc don't help matters Lionel Ritchie whatever Utopian fantasy land you inhabit).
Northern Ireland = part of Britain, referred to as British
Merger of the two associations of our most popular (international) sport = more cloudiness as to whether Republic of Ireland players/people are British or otherwise.

So you're point is that we shouldn't have an all island team because some foreigners didn't pay attention in their geography classes, don't understand a map or haven't watched or read the news for the past 30 years.
Very logical!!!

[colster]

Have to disagree with you there, NI isnt linked to the ROI olympics team and a person from NI can either represent GB and NI or Ireland.

There's still an an island element to it isn't there?

[Dassa]

There's still an an island element to it isn't there?

About as much as football currently is, as in order to compete for ROI in olympics you need an irish passport, this is the case with the ROI football team aswell with people born in NI able to play for ROI. pretty similar. I remember a bit of an uproar last year when there was talk of ROI athletics and NI athletics joining together.

[colster]

About as much as football currently is, as in order to compete for ROI in olympics you need an irish passport, this is the case with the ROI football team aswell with people born in NI able to play for ROI. pretty similar. I remember a bit of an uproar last year when there was talk of ROI athletics and NI athletics joining together.

Point taken. Since the GFA people from the north can get an ROI passport. We've already got Darron Gibson and some other lad from the north using it. I know the North were complaining about us poaching some of their youth players.

[Lionel Ritchie]

This forum also contains some of the most moronic politically correct bulls**t I've ever seen. Who's going to post next? Mary Whitehouse. Listen my point on this is plain and simple:

Republic of ireland = Independent of Britain, often confused abroad with being part of Britain due to the difficulty for most foreigners to distinguish between Northern and the Republic of Ireland (and I'm pretty sure the joint Rugby, Olympic teams etc don't help matters Lionel Ritchie whatever Utopian fantasy land you inhabit). One of us inhabits a fantasy land alright YI but umm...not me. If all these ignoramus Johnny foreigners think we're part of Britain (I think you mean the UK by the way) would it not be at least as much down to half the friggin country going on holidays sporting Glasgow Celtic, Man U and Liverpool jerseys, seeking out English menu's in the tavernas and asking what time Eastenders will be on?


PS - Lionel Ritchie, Dancing on the Ceiling is a kickin tune.
I know sure didn't I write the fcuker.

[Dassa]

yeah its hard enough trying to get talented youngsters coming through without losing them to other nations but seems to be the norm these days with countries in africa and countries like turkey loosing players to richer nations every year. Job for Blatter and the boys to sort out me thinks.

[Donal81]

This forum also contains some of the most moronic politically correct bulls**t I've ever seen. Who's going to post next? Mary Whitehouse. Listen my point on this is plain and simple:

Republic of ireland = Independent of Britain, often confused abroad with being part of Britain due to the difficulty for most foreigners to distinguish between Northern and the Republic of Ireland (and I'm pretty sure the joint Rugby, Olympic teams etc don't help matters Lionel Ritchie whatever Utopian fantasy land you inhabit).
Northern Ireland = part of Britain, referred to as British
Merger of the two associations of our most popular (international) sport = more cloudiness as to whether Republic of Ireland players/people are British or otherwise.

PS - Lionel Ritchie, Dancing on the Ceiling is a kickin tune.

With the exception of your comment on Dancing On The Ceiling, I think what you've written there is fairly half-baked, to be honest. How merging the country would make us appear more British in the eyes of some group of people. Who would they be, by the way? Some British people? Why would you give a toss? British people don't have a monopoly on idiots who don't know their history.

I'd love to see an All-Ireland team, I think it would do a hell of a lot of good for this country and this island. I don't like the rubbish it tends to drag out, though. All the arguments over national anthems and flags and this short-sighted take that the North isn't producing good players at the moment so we don't need them.

I've said it before but when people start bringing up the flag and the anthem, I'm reminded of Jonathan Swift's story about two peoples who went to war over which way to chop an egg.

[colster]

yeah its hard enough trying to get talented youngsters coming through without losing them to other nations but seems to be the norm these days with countries in africa and countries like turkey loosing players to richer nations every year. Job for Blatter and the boys to sort out me thinks.

I know it's a pity but i suppose some of those players may be more inclined to play for the south.

Anyway, I'm happy enough with the 2 teams. It would be nice to have a combined team. I think there would be advantages for both sides.
I remember N.I. against Spain in 82. Back then both sides had some great players. Combined they would have been an excellent side.

[Roverstillidie]

lads up north, you can have your own opinion. But Im just calling it the way I see it.

and not 1 other poster sees what the hell you are on about.

i think you might want to give it up before you cause serious offence.

for the record i would love to see an all-ireland side, but to expect it to happen in the way JR thinks is bafflingly naive.

[gspain]

Point taken. Since the GFA people from the north can get an ROI passport. We've already got Darron Gibson and some other lad from the north using it. I know the North were complaining about us poaching some of their youth players.

Anybody born in Northern Ireland or with family from NI has always had the right to get an Irish passport. The GFA copperfastened that.

We could always have picked anybody born in NI but there appears to have beena gentleman's agreement between the 2 football associations. We did pick Alan Kernaghan after NI turned him down but subsequently it is clear that there is no such agreement now.

[as_i_say]

This is never going to happen. The vast amount of people who go to Windsor park and support Northern Ireland consider themselves British. Most nationalists up the North support the Republic.

Northern Ireland fans use their soccer team to give themselves some identity, an identity which they struggle to assign themselves in everyday life.

Look at the flags at Windsor park-Union Jack, english flag, northern ireland flag (red hand), english flag with red hand and union jack in top corner, IFA flags etc-they dont know what to bring, but supporting NI is something obviously special to these people.

I would like to see a united Ireland team the same way as I would like to see a united Ireland-cant see one happening without the other.

[Dassa]

As I say. Mate have been to Windsor Park for ten years supporting NI and can honestly say that the only time Ive seen an England flag is when England play. We are Northern Irish and happy with that that why most carry the NI flag. Very little UJ at the match either these days but certainly no england flags, I have seen England flags at windsor for Linfield games if thats when you saw them at WP..

[as_i_say]

i dunno, plenty of UJ's and those NI flags with the UJ in the top left corner (what is that by the way?) are put behind goals at both ends. Also English flag with crown in the top left corner.

while were talking-is there a type of person that brings a UJ flag as opposed to a NI flag?

Do you consider yourself British, Northern Irish, or Irish? I.e if someone asked you your nationality what would you say

[Dassa]

I myself have only ever brought a NI flag to Windsor park along with the IFA green flag, As for others many bring their local club supporters flags such as Linfield, Glenavon etc and this might explain the english flag present as I know Linfield have one in their crest etc.
As for me I see myself as Northern Irish, but afraid that some peoples dont like to see this term used and would rather force you into a british or Irish box as its much easier then to label someone. With me this is not going to happen. If I could get an NI passport tomorrow I would or when filling in options if NI was on the sheet thats what I would tick but just doesnt happen very often Im afraid.

[dcfcsteve]

I'm happy with the current setup. It's bad enough that the English BBC commentators often mistakingly refer to Republic players as British but if we joined with the North they'd be claiming us as their own (particularly if we qualify for a major championship and they fail to like in 1994).

Also I think we should have the right to sing 'amhrain na fiann' at all our international games though I can understand this probably wouldn't be acceptable if we merged.

Nah leave it as it is and distance ourselves from the English as much as possible.

And the award for most idiotic post of the month goes to.... :rolleyes:

What exactly would an all-island team have to do with distancing ourselves or otherwise from the English ? In fact - what exactly would an all-island team have to do with the English FULL-STOP ??

Did Derry City joining the LOI usher in a whole-new era of closeness between the plucky Irish and the dastardly Sasana ?

So the jist of your arguement for not having a joint all-island team is that the odd English journalist might try to claim us as 'their own' on the infrequent occassions that a Britiash team doesn't qualify for a major tournament and we do. Shock horror - we should declare war immediately ! What a staggeringly ridiculous reason for doing anything....

As requested already - drop the anti-English obsession. Ireland needs to measure itself on its own terms - not in relation to the English. Only then will we have matured as a nation.....

[as_i_say]

Dassa> thats pretty interesting alright. Would you say there are many NI fans who are of that opinion? and are more people becoming that minded now in the north. There seems to be less UJs than during the 90s for example-but when I see a UJ in Windsor Park I just think-why? I mean you dont even see them at home England games.

I suspect its the hardcore orangeman that would bring a UJ to a NI match. Could be wrong of course :)

[dcfcsteve]

This forum also contains some of the most moronic politically correct bulls**t I've ever seen. Who's going to post next? Mary Whitehouse. Listen my point on this is plain and simple:

Republic of ireland = Independent of Britain, often confused abroad with being part of Britain due to the difficulty for most foreigners to distinguish between Northern and the Republic of Ireland (and I'm pretty sure the joint Rugby, Olympic teams etc don't help matters Lionel Ritchie whatever Utopian fantasy land you inhabit).
Northern Ireland = part of Britain, referred to as British
Merger of the two associations of our most popular (international) sport = more cloudiness as to whether Republic of Ireland players/people are British or otherwise.

PS - Lionel Ritchie, Dancing on the Ceiling is a kickin tune.

YI - it's deeply worrying how horribly wrong you've got all of this. Not only is the basis of your arguement flawed, it's actually the complete opposite of the reality.

You're asserting that the fact that NI is part of the UK means that people across the world are confused as to the status of the Republic of Ireland. That is possibly one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this site. Ever...

The reality is the EXACT OPPOSITE, as you should be well familiar with from living in England. Rather than Irish people being considered British because a small chunk of our country is part of the UK - the reality is that it is the 'identity' of Northern Irish people that is of a confused status, due to the presence of an independent Republic ! When people in London hear my accent, they describe me as 'Irish'. Not Northern Irish, and certainly not British - but IRISH. It was the same when I lived in places like New York, Florida and Holland. It is the same for my Northern Irish protestant friends. It's only within the identity-conscious confines of the political divide in Ireland that people worry about differentiating between the 2 - the rest of the world views the whole population of the island of Ireland , north and south, catholic and protestant, as IRISH. Therefore - the reality is that it is the 'identity' of Northern Irish people that is of a confused status, due to the presence of an independent Republic, and NOT vice-versa.

I can only guess that you're not particularly well travelled if you have the nerve to suggest that people overseas think that the Republic is part of Britain because only 20% of the island of Ireland is in the UK. Would you care to clarify who exactly is it that has these beliefs ? And don't give us the aul 'I once met someone on holiday somewhere who thought that way', as if that would be any form of conclusive proof. As an aside - significant chunks of the world know absolutely feck-all about Ireland (e.g. large parts of Asia), and what little they do know in places like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc often comes purely and solely from football. Which makes your point even more absurd.

When you're stuck in a hole Young Irish, (or should that be Young British ? I'm confused as to what to call you - given British ownership of the 6 counties...) stop digging...

[Dassa]

According to the daily Mirror up here. John Dallat MLA has jumped on the AI bandwagon saying we should quit using football for sectarianism up north and create an AI team that everyone can get behind. He doesnt seem to realise that if AI team happens no NI fans I know will support it and the team will become even more one sisded in the community than the NI team is supposed to be now. Hate people who no matter what the IFA do will try to tar it with the old cliche's nice one John.

[Dassa]

As for whether I am the norm in terms of NI fans up here I cant be sure but surely if both sides stop allowing them to be boxed into 1 or the other nationality and become proud in the small 6 counties that we share, which has many things to be proud of in, then things not just for sport can move on in this country.