European Season 2006

[ollie]

Except Longford do have European experience...
bad experiences more like......






.....sorry couldn't resist the temptation:o

[pineapple stu]

doolin will have money to spend and i think that the idea that he is no good in the transfer market is unfair
His record at UCD was singularly appalling. Richie Purdy, Barry Andrews, Greg O'Dowd, Austin O'Neill, Mark Rooney, Niall Donnelly, etc. At Drogheda, he's signed the likes of Mark Rooney, Niall Donnelly, Pat Sullivan (E24k to sit on the bench?) ando thers while selling the likes of Andy Myler.


cop on stu with your "i hate doolin" propaganda
anyone can see through your sh**e
Wha a superb argument. I commend your lucidity of thought.:rolleyes:
If he's a great manager, why did Drogs - with an expensively put together, full-time team - finish so far off the top? Why did they fail to build on last season? Why was there much talk during the season on the Drogs board as to whether Doolin was up to the job? Why are there so many people in the eL in general who are unconvinced by him? Why did he take a UCD team who had started the previous season in Europe and get them relegated two years later for the first time in thirteen years?

[thejollyrodger]

3 victories and a draw would be very good work. It would mean 1.666 and Iwould have to say hats off to Drogs and Derry if they can pull it off.

Cork are in a good position IMHO. They learnt a lot from the slavia away game. A slight bit more cautious would probably get a decent result away from home.

Shelbourne did look like they were a bit mentally fragile compare to Cork and our policy was to boot it long instead of taking it down and playing. The pressure is off Shels now and we could well get past the 3 qualifying rounds.

2006 season will be very intresting.

[NY Hoop]

Who? Gartland, Webb, Lynch, Riistila (?) They don't have much experience at all really.

Yeah, on very average players like Damien Lynch, Mark Rooney, Glen Fitzpatrick... Doolin's record in the transfer market is woeful, and I wouldn't expect that to change over the winter.

I would doubt they are one of the top four teams on the island when you consider Linfield won the Setanta. The fact remains they were 26 points off the top - and 19 off third - and even fourth was only secured with a late run of form. They're no better than Longford over the last couple of years. Except Longford do have European experience...

Gartland played for Longford in europe. Likewise Webb and Lynch for boez. Ristilla is a full international and has European experience with FC Haka.

I wouldn't class Rooney or Fitzpatrick as average. Rooney is one for the future with great potential and Glen has 4 goals in europe as well as a league medal.

Fact is Drogheda under Doolin have just won the Cup so its wrong to say they havent built on last season.

I thought you got relegated under Pete Mahon? To be fair your hatred of Doolin, for whatever reason, is clouding your judgment.

KOH

[Schumi]

I thought you got relegated under Pete Mahon?
The same way you got relegated under Alan O'Neill.

[NY Hoop]

The same way you got relegated under Alan O'Neill.

We got relegated under Branvard.

Did Mahon come in at the very end of the season as well?

KOH

[Schumi]

Did Mahon come in at the very end of the season as well?
Can't remember the precise stats but we were at least 10 points adrift when he came in after 20 games or so and went down by only two points in the end, picking up about 10 points more in the last 16 games than in the first 20. I think that points haul extended to the whole season would have had us 4th or so.

[Block G Raptor]

Kenny will have the team better prepared for Europe than ever before .

I wouldn't bank on it his abysmal display in europe cost him his job at bohs remember

[Block G Raptor]

add hunt . thats the rumour anyway!!
Have you been at the magic mushrooms again
Kevin Hunt was born to play for Bohs and will Die A Bohs man
Get fcuking real

[NY Hoop]

Have you been at the magic mushrooms again
Kevin Hunt was born to play for Bohs and will Die A Bohs man
Get fcuking real

Very naive. Players dont care (Derek Tracey excepted of course).

KOH

[Block G Raptor]

Very naive. Players dont care (Derek Tracey excepted of course).

KOH
Not naive at all I know kevin well and he as a respect for the club which is rooted in the fact that they plucked him from obscurity and basically saved his career. He has personal reasons for his love of the club too (but this is not the time or the place to discuss them) from speaking to him I KNOW he has absolutely no interest is signing for any other club FACT!

[ThatGuy]

Obviously there can be no complaints about our representatives this year. Cork, Derry, Drogheda and Shels all deserve it.

As for further progress, I can see Cork and Derry doing quite well, I don't think they will brake any new boundaries though as the team isn't any better that any of the previous champions this decade (not that it is an insult at all).

I think with the expanded Intertoto next year Shelbourne could actually win it (ie be one of the many winners) and get into the UEFA Cup considering that they have (in my opinion) the best squad in the league.

[pineapple stu]

Gartland played for Longford in europe. Likewise Webb and Lynch for boez. Ristilla is a full international and has European experience with FC Haka.
I agree - and mentioned all those.


I wouldn't class Rooney or Fitzpatrick as average. Rooney is one for the future with great potential and Glen has 4 goals in europe as well as a league medal.
Rooney is muck. He's had potential for the last three seasons but has scored about five league goals in that time - about 60/70 games. Appalling return for a striker. He's about 22/23 at this stage, so if he has potential, he'd want to start showing it.

Fitzpatrick did well-ish at Rovers, but is another average player. One of the worst scoring records for a UCD forward (which is saying a lot) and the general consensus with Shels fans seems to be they're not fussed to be losing him. Didn't do anything for them except score v Lille and never really impressed when I saw him.


Fact is Drogheda under Doolin have just won the Cup so it's wrong to say they haven't built on last season.
Any team can win the Cup. We have. Longford have. Even Rovers have! The league is the big test and Drogheda, after challenging for a while last year, splashed the cash and were nowhere this year. That's moving backwards, in my opinion.

Schumi's right on the UCD relegation season. From when Doolin was sacked and Mahon appointed (20 games in) to the end of the season, UCD were fourth in the form table. Just was left with far too much to do. There's no doubt as to who relegated us.

I must correct myself above though - Drogs paid E15k for Sully, not E24k.

For the league, I'd love to see Drogheda doing well in Europe. Ideally, it would be without Doolin who, as you pointed out, I have no time for as he's a complete waste of space. I'm just trying to put a bit of realism into the debate. I think Drogs are by a good distance the least equipped to cope in Europe and are more likely to do a Longford than a Cork next season.

[NY Hoop]

Not naive at all I know kevin well and he as a respect for the club which is rooted in the fact that they plucked him from obscurity and basically saved his career. He has personal reasons for his love of the club too (but this is not the time or the place to discuss them) from speaking to him I KNOW he has absolutely no interest is signing for any other club FACT!

Ah why didnt you say so?! You never said you knew him and that he told you he would never leave:D

KOH

[Tenderloins]

I think Cork will do well, but only if they strengthen their squad a bit. They really missed O'Donovan and Murphy on Sunday . I'm sure Damo has his eye on a few players though anyhow. With luck they could make it to the final CL qualifying round and thus the uefa cup.
Derry are organised and again will strengthen their squad, however Stephen Kennys teams haven't got the greatest of records in Europe. Can only see them getting through one round.
Drogheda will be hoping for a decent draw, if they get it they should get through at least a round, cant see them going much further.
Shels will have fitness and european experience on their side in the Intertoto. They may well progress to uefa cup, but only if Fenlon respects the opposition less and plays a more attacking formation.

[pineapple stu]

Stephen Kenny's teams haven't got the greatest of records in Europe
Was he in charge when Longford played Lovech? Wasn't a bad performance. Led for 75 minutes at home before drawing 1-1, and were level until injury time in Bulgaria.

[NY Hoop]

I agree - and mentioned all those.

Here's what you said originally: "Who? Gartland, Webb, Lynch, Riistila (?) They don't have much experience at all really."

Rooney is muck. He's had potential for the last three seasons but has scored about five league goals in that time - about 60/70 games. Appalling return for a striker. He's about 22/23 at this stage, so if he has potential, he'd want to start showing it.

Well he's only 21 but wont argue as you've seen him play for UCD.

Fitzpatrick did well-ish at Rovers, but is another average player. One of the worst scoring records for a UCD forward (which is saying a lot) and the general consensus with Shels fans seems to be they're not fussed to be losing him. Didn't do anything for them except score v Lille and never really impressed when I saw him.

Everyone knows his work rate can improve but Shels never saw the best of him simply cos he never got his game this year. A consistent run with a top flight club, like he had with us only 2 years ago, and he'll do well.

Any team can win the Cup. We have. Longford have. Even Rovers have! The league is the big test and Drogheda, after challenging for a while last year, splashed the cash and were nowhere this year. That's moving backwards, in my opinion.

They were also big spenders last year and this year they have a trophy so that is improvement. We havent got back our trophy in 18 years!

Schumi's right on the UCD relegation season. From when Doolin was sacked and Mahon appointed (20 games in) to the end of the season, UCD were fourth in the form table. Just was left with far too much to do. There's no doubt as to who relegated us.

Dont doubt you there.

I must correct myself above though - Drogs paid E15k for Sully, not E24k.
For the league, I'd love to see Drogheda doing well in Europe. Ideally, it would be without Doolin who, as you pointed out, I have no time for as he's a complete waste of space. I'm just trying to put a bit of realism into the debate. I think Drogs are by a good distance the least equipped to cope in Europe and are more likely to do a Longford than a Cork next season.

Doolin won everything many times over as a player and having seen him play never understood how he didnt make it in england. Anyway like I said you're letting your hatred cloud your judgment.

The fact that Drogheda are full time will benefit them more than Longford. But the most important part of competing in europe is your form at that time.

KOH

[pineapple stu]

Here's what you said originally: "Who? Gartland, Webb, Lynch, Riistila (?) They don't have much experience at all really.
Apologies - I meant the squad in general didn't have much experience. I was listing the few exceptions.


Doolin won everything many times over as a player and having seen him play never understood how he didnt make it in england.
He was a great player. He did well for us as a player. But as a manager, he was appalling. We were even forfeiting U-21 games because he couldn't be bothered with it. His rant against Mahon was disgraceful and hugely erroneous. His style of football was largely poor and seems to be one of the criticisms levelled at Drogheda this season by a few others. Trust me, I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgement!:)


The fact that Drogheda are full time will benefit them more than Longford.
Will it? It barely benefitted them in the league this year when they finished three points ahead of Longford.

But the most important part of competing in europe is your form at that time.
That's true alright. Which makes this a bit of a nonsense thread really. Perfect for pre-season! Only 13½ weeks to go...:(


We havent got back our trophy in 18 years!
Why, who was it beat you when last you were holders?! :D

[NY Hoop]

Apologies - I meant the squad in general didn't have much experience. I was listing the few exceptions.

He was a great player. He did well for us as a player. But as a manager, he was appalling. We were even forfeiting U-21 games because he couldn't be bothered with it. His rant against Mahon was disgraceful and hugely erroneous. His style of football was largely poor and seems to be one of the criticisms levelled at Drogheda this season by a few others. Trust me, I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgement!:)

Will it? It barely benefitted them in the league this year when they finished three points ahead of Longford.

That's true alright. Which makes this a bit of a nonsense thread really. Perfect for pre-season! Only 13½ weeks to go...:(

Why, who was it beat you when last you were holders?! :D

The team that eamon dummy said would win the cup that season! That was a cold night standing outside.

With every respect to UCD I think if Doolin does well at Drogheda his time at belfield will be forgotten.

Regarding being full time I meant in the context of playing in europe. But then again the gypos went out to a team that had trained for only a week so its form really..........

KOH

[pineapple stu]

The team that eamon dummy said would win the cup that season!
And us in the First Division!:eek:


With every respect to UCD I think if Doolin does well at Drogheda his time at Belfield will be forgotten.
Most people still think he did well at Belfield...

[Real ale Madrid]

Anyone think we could have 4 teams in the first round properof the UEFA cup. That would be some laugh:o

[pete]

I wouldn't bank on it his abysmal display in europe cost him his job at bohs remember

Exactly. Kenny did well in some games but tarnished it all with shocking loss in 1st round.

I thinkt the reason Shels & City will do well is they have experience as a club & team - i.e. they used the whole preparation & travel that Europe brings.

Drogs & Derry may have some experience amoung individuals but not collectively. A lot will depend on the draw but I still feel they have responsibility to make 2nd round baring horrible draw.

[monkey magic]

Was he in charge when Longford played Lovech? Wasn't a bad performance. Led for 75 minutes at home before drawing 1-1, and were level until injury time in Bulgaria.


yes he was, and by all accounts we acquitted ourselves well

in the context of the season gone by, i wouldent go writing any kenny team off again ;)

[mandrake]

ok.
cork should do ok plenty of experience in europe.
shels should do well but there is the odd great team in the intertoto cup(lazio were in it last year) they could get and there is only 3 rounds this year so eleven winners instead of 3 they could win one.
derry and drogs
think we both should get past first round (least to be expected from full time teams) after that who knows, i think we are tight enough at the back (said the actress to the bishop). but we have very little experience, think we threw away an intertoto place to bohs last year, it couldve got us a bit of european experience.

[mandrake]

And us in the First Division!:eek:


Most people still think he did well at Belfield...

bloody heel pineapple you do hate doolin, did he miss his round at the ucd supporters club xmas do..!!!
he needs to prove again next year he is a good manager, and finish higher...
ny hoop was fitzpatrick good with you lot.

[Schumi]

bloody heel pineapple you do hate doolin, did he miss his round at the ucd supporters club xmas do..!!!
Worse. He made us go to Dundalk last year. :eek:

[Real ale Madrid]

ok.
cork should do ok plenty of experience in europe.
shels should do well but there is the odd great team in the intertoto cup(lazio were in it last year) they could get and there is only 3 rounds this year so eleven winners instead of 3 they could win one.
derry and drogs
think we both should get past first round (least to be expected from full time teams) after that who knows, i think we are tight enough at the back (said the actress to the bishop). but we have very little experience, think we threw away an intertoto place to bohs last year, it couldve got us a bit of european experience.

Exactly the kind of reponse I was looking for. People do enough of slagging each other of saying that Derry are flash in the pans, Dogheda are 26 pts off the pace and other such negative rubbish. The target next year should be to get 4 teams into the 1st round proper of the UEFA cup - highly optimistic and maybe even a bit naive - but it is possible. Then we can say the LEAGUE is making progress its all very well for ourselves and Shels to have the odd good year but only when we all doing well can we really be proud of our league.

[Speranza]

I don't think experience has a lot to do with the preformance.

The level that ourselves and Cork were playing at this year was well above anything seen before in the LoI. That can only be good going into Europe, if you take a few anomalies (sp?) out then domestic class is usually a sign of what a team are capable of in Europe.

With Drogheda miles off the top two I just don't see why people feel we will reach the same round in Europe as them.

[pete]

The target next year should be to get 4 teams into the 1st round proper of the UEFA cup - highly optimistic and maybe even a bit naive - but it is possible.

Its also possible that eL team will make CL group stages but i won't happen.

IMO target is 3 teams past 1st qualifying round of CL & Uefa Cup. Inter Toto was great when we were in it but from eL perspective makes little odds.

[higgins]

Has something happened over the past few days I have not heard??


The pressure is off Shels now and we could well get past the 3 qualifying rounds.

This statement and some others after it are suggesting Shels could win through 3 rounds??
I thought our league overall (Cork and Derry improved) was fairly poor. As I posted on the Shels board, Drogheda finished 26 points off Cork in 4th and Longford in 5th had a -3 Goal Difference!

There is a reason why shels will be UNSEEDED in the 1st Round of the Intertoto. I dont know how you can say they will even go close to winning a place in the UEFA Cup.

To be honest from an Irish point of view it would do more harm then good as any points we have then get split by 4 instead or 3. Shels would then need to win about 2 games in UEFA to make up for this fact I would imagine.

[pineapple stu]

The target next year should be to get 4 teams into the 1st round proper of the UEFA cup - highly optimistic and maybe even a bit naive - but it is possible.
With repect, that's naive. What is reality only looks like negativity from where you see the league. We haven't had all three teams past one round ever, and now you want all four to get past two rounds?

[EnDai]

Thing is, if Shels go through as many rounds as Cork did - we will be in the UEFA Cup 2nd QR, which then automatically makes a difference to the EL, as we could hopefully earn some form of co-efficient points!

[higgins]

That’s not correct. We will then play a decent team in the 2nd QR and ALL Irelands Coefficient points will be divided by 4 instead of 3 meaning that we would need a few wins to justify our inclusion.

Also Cork never got past 3 rounds in the Intertoto. They won thorugh 2 rounds in a 5 round competition didnt they?
It will be a lot more difficult to advance in this seasons format if there are only 3 rounds. You are sure to hit a team in country from one of the TOP 8 in the final round. That’s only when you beat your more fancied opponents in the earlier 2 rounds ..

I'd be happy with shels getting to the 2nd Round to be honest. The same for the 3 teams in CL and UEFA action.

[liamon]

... The target next year should be to get 4 teams into the 1st round proper of the UEFA cup ...
I would be happy with three teams getting past one round each in the CL/UEFA. To be selfish, I'd prefer Cork to go through three or four rounds and sod the rest. :D It would also look good to the barstool brigade if Shels got through a couple of intertoto games.
4 teams to qualify for UEFA is not viable at present. I'd be especially worried about Drogs. They need to step up a class to do well in Europe.
Our top league teams can now beat certain teams on our day, but the leagues of France, Spain, etc. are still too strong for us to hope to get many teams through multiple rounds.

[pineapple stu]

Provisional (very provisional!) seedings for the 2006/07 season are here (http://home.wanadoo.nl/g.mentink/seedings%20Europacup%2006-07.html), incidentally. Shels are seeded in the InterToto and there's a good few teams in the Second Round you wouldn't be scared of. Win Round 3 and you're in the UEFA - currently contains the likes of Lazio, Rangers, Maccabi Tel-Aviv, Viking and GAK (Austria). It's possible to get through.

No other team is seeded, though for some reason, the website doesn't have the regionalised UEFA Cup draw. Maybe that's an oversight, maybe it's gone??

[paudie]

Provisional (very provisional!) seedings for the 2006/07 season are here (http://home.wanadoo.nl/g.mentink/seedings%20Europacup%2006-07.html), incidentally. Shels are seeded in the InterToto and there's a good few teams in the Second Round you wouldn't be scared of. Win Round 3 and you're in the UEFA - currently contains the likes of Lazio, Rangers, Maccabi Tel-Aviv, Viking and GAK (Austria). It's possible to get through.

No other team is seeded, though for some reason, the website doesn't have the regionalised UEFA Cup draw. Maybe that's an oversight, maybe it's gone??

No team you wouldn't give City a fair chance of beating at least. Perhaps Cyprus the toughest. They usually have a few Croats and Serbs playing for them and it's usually the same clubs in europe every year.
Some potenially awful trips though.

I wonder if City had drawn the second leg against Slavia would we have been seeded? It's close between us and Belarus.

[pineapple stu]

I wonder if City had drawn the second leg against Slavia would we have been seeded? It's close between us and Belarus.
You would have been, yep.

[Poor Student]

Domzale would be very dangerous for Cork. They're spending big at the moment in Slovenia and have assembled a good team. They competed well in Europe this year beating Stuttgart away in the UEFA Cup 1st round and I think would knock Cork out.

[Real ale Madrid]

With repect, that's naive. What is reality only looks like negativity from where you see the league. We haven't had all three teams past one round ever, and now you want all four to get past two rounds?

Yes but at least it stimulated some possitive debate instead of people slagging each other off. if you look at each teams individually the height of thier ambition would be to win through a few rounds. Now i know in reality that is not going to happen but i maintain that it is possible. The FAIlures should be setting this as some kind of medium term target and asking each individual club what help they need to achive this.....but now i'm really clutching at straws.

As to what i think will happen I reckon city to get through 2 rounds of champs lge. Derry and Drogs to get through 1 round and Shels to get a shot of making the 2nd q round of uefa.

[pineapple stu]

Yes but at least it stimulated some positive debate instead of people slagging each other off.
But sure I could talk about UCD getting into the UEFA Cup through the Fair Play draw and going on to make the last 16 - that's positive debate, but there has to be some sense of realism to it...

Walk before we can run. I'd be quite happy with all three teams getting through the first round. Anything extra would be a bonus.

[Poor Student]

Listen, I am telling you now, if you draw Domzale (or possibly Gorica) this could be seriously bad. There is a lot of money behind them, I am annoyed to see a team of that quality in so early. It could be all over for you before it has begun. Of course I know now I have said this they'll draw the lowest seeds, get hammered by them and I'll look silly.:D

[MariborKev]

I thinkt the reason Shels & City will do well is they have experience as a club & team - i.e. they used the whole preparation & travel that Europe brings.

We have to travel from a different country every fortnight.........

[thejollyrodger]

Im an optimist about Shels and the Inter ToTo. We can do it. It may be hard but we should get through the first two rounds. If we could just fix things at the back.

[pineapple stu]

Provisional (very provisional!) seedings for the 2006/07 season are here (http://home.wanadoo.nl/g.mentink/seedings%20Europacup%2006-07.html), incidentally. Shels are seeded in the InterToto
Higgins on the Shels forum notes that club ranking points don't count for InterToto seedings. This would make sense - (a) no ranking points are gained from it and (b) Bohs were unseeded last year, which makes sense only if you take away their ranking points gained against Kaiserslautern. Only Shels (v Hibs) and Longford (v Carmarthen, though the north/south/mid split helped a lot there) have been seeded in European competition without gaining full points, I think. On that basis, Shels won't be seeded.

[higgins]

Correct :)

From what I can gather so far the Intertoto will continue to use country coefficients and NOT team coefficients as the site you posted uses. The guy who runs the site says he does it on team coefficients as its easier on him to predict the winners that go through to the UEFA Cup and thats all he is interested in. The way he gets the 11 most likely winners is not important!!

Anyway shels will be unseeded it seems.

So for people saying its possible, yes in theory it is but we have to play 3 teams of a better standard. The odds are highly stacked against us. Winning through 1 round is more then we deserve if you take our seeding. Until we become seeds on a regular basis then talk of going to 3rd rounds is mostly rubbish.