View Full Version : New league format
Vitruvian Man
02/12/2005, 1:52 PM
Stu you say you were one of the people consulted by Genesis for their report.
What kind of questions did they ask.
How did they frame their inquiry.
I take it by you use of the gobsh*te word you wern't too impressed by them.
Maynard
02/12/2005, 1:56 PM
This is f@cking maddness...Why can't they let their 12 team Premier bed in for god sake, I don't hear anybody complaining about the current format being unfair. And while I'm at it, how the sh1t do we end up in the "South" barrell??:confused: Not that it makes a blind bit of difference. Hopefully the clubs will have the sense not to entertain this boll0x for more than 5 minutes.
South prem Clubs:- Bray Wanderers, Cork City, Dublin City, St Patrick's Athletic, UCD, Waterford Utd. First Div Clubs:-Cobh Ramblers, Galway Utd, Kildare County, Kilkenny City, Limerick FC
Is someone seriously suggesting that thw League Champions be forced to play half their season with the minnows of the country. No disrespect to teams listed there but only Pats & Waterford would give us a game.
How can clubs budget or even set small things like season ticket prices if changing so suddenly.
:( :( :(
the clubs will have the sense
eL clubs with sense- that's crazy talk man, crazy talk I tell you!
Our best player's our keeper!!!
I still don't really see the point of an interim season. Surely clubs should be able to plan for the future at the same time as running the present? To say they need a year without pressure - during which time, they'll still have to run the team, pay the bills, meet the budgets - just to get their houses in order for 2007 is a bit much surely? A pointless season - on the pitch at least - could seriously hit the crowds too, which is the last thing the league needs.
Well I think Galway Harps has hit the nail on the head. It's just another way of fudging the licence, just on a league wide scale. There's talk of the tax clearance cert requirement being either next years or this years ffs.
As for our stadium- it is frustratingly slow but progress is being made. It's a very very complicated deal indeed. I take your point about how these things shouldn't be indefinate, but we have planning permission, a detailed plan on how things will proceed etc.
It wasn't really aimed at any club in particular, just at the ongoing fudge by the eL.
Bald Student
02/12/2005, 2:26 PM
My opinion is that this is happening a year to early. The league should be deciding now how to start the season in March 2007, not next March. I went to a play-off between DCFC and SRFC. Can I have my fiver back if it turns out that that game was meaningless?
It's just another way of fudging the licence, just on a league wide scale. There's talk of the tax clearance cert requirement being either next years or this years ffs.
WTF? That's downright insane!
WeAreRovers
02/12/2005, 2:37 PM
Couldn't agree more with GUFCT.
People need to pay attention to what GUFCT is saying - this is going to happen in 2007 and as it stands only a tiny handful of clubs will be eligible - GUFC being one of them.
For the 2007 season the top 10 ten clubs on the pitch with a licence will be in the Super League. So if Shels (for instance ;) ) finish top but don't get a licence (for tax reasons maybe? ;) ) they won't be in it.
But if Galway, Harps or Rovers (again for instance ;) ) finish outside the top 10 but satisfy the licence requirements then they will be in it.
KOH
Conor H
02/12/2005, 2:38 PM
Pineapple Stu we have a 1800 seater stadinum and in the process of building another.
pineapple stu
02/12/2005, 2:47 PM
No disrespect to teams listed there but only Pats & Waterford would give us a game.
Remind me again how many goals you scored against us in 180 minutes down in Cork, 65 of which we played with ten men?;)
Stu you say you were one of the people consulted by Genesis for their report.
What kind of questions did they ask.
How did they frame their inquiry.
I take it by you use of the gobsh*te word you wern't too impressed by them.
I should clarify. I was part of the initial NLSA grouping which was formed in the aftermath of the FAI screwing the eL fans over on tickets for the Israel game. We had a meeting with the FAI, during which we resolved the ticet issue to our satisfaction, and in discussing other things, the FAI mentioned the upcoming Genesis report and asked if we would make a contribution to this. We agreed.
For whatever reason, the meeting between us and Genesis never went ahead. I don't know the full story, but I think Genesis rang one of our members, was talknig to him initially but afterwards couldn't contact him. We never heard anything more. This is depiste the fact that the seven or so of us at the original FAI meeting had all given names and mobile numbers, so we were all contactable. The NLSA person concerned was also unhappy at suggestions he had been uncontactable.
As I say, I don't know the full story behind that, so don't use the above to make judgements one way or the other.
Anyway, we decided as time ticked by that we'd do up our own document and send it into Genesis. We did this - it's up on the NLSA website at www.NLSupporters.com, though the website is on the blink at the moment - and are credited in the white paper as one of the groups consulted. However, Genesis never contacted us to explore our ideas further, as far as I'm aware.
Genesis made no attempt to contact any other supporters' groups - e.g. supporters' clubs, which is strange, as you would have thought supporters would have been the single most important stakeholders in the league. They appear overall to be fairly amateurish in my opinion - the above oversight, attendance figures robbed from here on the basis that they were "publicly available" (direct quote), etc., etc. The thread here at the time carried many negative opinions on the report, which I'm not going to rehash. It worries me slightly that a group who have shown such unprofessionalism (in my opinion, obviously) are now having their report being used as the basis for such radical recommendations on the league's future.
thejollyrodger
02/12/2005, 2:52 PM
Explain that one. We have our tax clearance cert for next year but the FAI have said the 2005 one will do:rolleyes:
KOH
You wereNT deducted 8 points for nothing ;)
Just off the top of my head the following clubs have very decent almost concrete plans and its a half decent regional balance. If we had another 6 clubs with equal ambition and resources we would be flying.
Finn Harps have a new plan for the stadium so I reckon they would qualify
Drogs the same
Shelbourne the same ( but to be brutally honest i dont know when its going ahead)
Shamrock Rovers stadium out in tallaght (if fully built) would be the business
Corks stadium when the shed and St Annes end when finished will be excellent
Galways United seems well run but i dont know what they are doing stadium wise
I'm warming to this 3 an in league that you're all talking about.
Conor H
02/12/2005, 4:18 PM
According to the Indo the proposal was unaminiously rejected last night.
Jerry The Saint
02/12/2005, 4:21 PM
The eircom League is dying and there is only one hope left to save it...
Three words:
Extra. Time. Multiball!
:D
Schumi
02/12/2005, 4:29 PM
According to the Indo the proposal was unaminiously rejected last night.
Thank **** for that. At least there's some level of sanity.
soccerc
02/12/2005, 5:09 PM
According to the Indo the proposal was unaminiously rejected last night.
As I posted last night http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=399509&postcount=3
Wait until you see what's really planned.............and no club can be assured of their "franchise"
The crazy thing about this is we're talking about an interim season when the number of teams in the proposed superleague hasn't been agreed. We're talking about how to get to a destination without knowing where the hell we're going! A 22 team league could be good (might want to balance it a bit more though), it might help fudge licensing a while longer (although I don't think the license is that different from last year having talked to someone about it in the meantime) but the debate should be about what structure we're going to end up with, not what to do in the meantime!
The Genusis recommendation (and that's all it is, cause it sure as f*** won't be ratified) for a ten team league that'd be virtually impossible to get promoted to and everyone else basically demoted to intermediate football would be the death of Irish senior football. Certain clubs would have a closed shop 6 team league is they could get away with it but obviously for the league overall that's not the way to go.
Honestly, what the hell have these people been paid for? What have they told us that we didn't know or couldn't be handled via proper licensing?
pineapple stu
02/12/2005, 6:43 PM
Wait until you see what's really planned.............and no club can be assured of their "franchise"
Don't say things like that...
How'z about scissors-paper-rock?
Battery Rover
02/12/2005, 7:19 PM
Our 2000 all seater stand will be ready by the end of June.
You don't need to run an open year to decide the order of the clubs the existing structure has already done that. Cork City are the best team in the league and Athlone Town are the worst. If they are hoping that down and out clubs with great heritages, like Shamrock Rovers or Dundalk, will get their act together for the new format then they might as well just hand pick the teams they want in the top division and spare us the monkey-tennis 22 team league.
Big news expected here regarding a new manager and some possible serious investment within the next week.:)
Clubs are dying with the present structure of only 1 up and 1 play off. Too risky invest cause if you dont get up you are in deep financial trouble. Can only spend what you get in.
Something has to be done.
MariborKev
02/12/2005, 7:31 PM
For the 2007 season the top 10 ten clubs on the pitch with a licence will be in the Super League. So if Shels (for instance ;) ) finish top but don't get a licence (for tax reasons maybe? ;) ) they won't be in it.
But if Galway, Harps or Rovers (again for instance ;) ) finish outside the top 10 but satisfy the licence requirements then they will be in it.
KOH
I'm getting a flashback here, yes its all coming back.
Clubs without a licence won't be let in the league.
Hold on, the name is coming back to me..............
UEFA Licence fiasco of 2004
Clubs are dying with the present structure of only 1 up and 1 play off. Too risky invest cause if you dont get up you are in deep financial trouble. Can only spend what you get in.
Something has to be done.
It is easier to get out of the 1st division. DC/CHF Got promoted this season & they are hopeless.
Premier division clubs are investing a lot of money for success in Europe & fulltime pros so stupid to penalise them to help teams at bottom of the 1st division.
Yes but clubs make money from Europe as well.
Time and time again we see the George Bush mentality on this message board- the rich deserve the most help, those that are struggling in the lower reaches of the league are there due to their own incompetence and deserve to be further cut off from any hope of advancement. Give them no coverage, no hope of promotion, no respect, give them last priority for any grant for their grounds and then attack them for not making progress. Sure it's only the top few clubs that Irish football is here for, they're the only ones that matter.
Battery Rover
03/12/2005, 6:43 PM
Yes but clubs make money from Europe as well.
Time and time again we see the George Bush mentality on this message board- the rich deserve the most help, those that are struggling in the lower reaches of the league are there due to their own incompetence and deserve to be further cut off from any hope of advancement. Give them no coverage, no hope of promotion, no respect, give them last priority for any grant for their grounds and then attack them for not making progress. Sure it's only the top few clubs that Irish football is here for, they're the only ones that matter.
Well said.
The poor small clubs deserve help but not at the same time as penalising the people supporting irish football which are the investors of the biggest clubs.
Bald Student
06/12/2005, 2:41 PM
The poor small clubs deserve help but not at the same time as penalising the people supporting irish football which are the investors of the biggest clubs.The investors in the smallest clubs are supporting irish football as well.
Whatever new league format comes in, a key aim should be for there to be a better chance of a first division team getting promoted to end the graveyard image of that division.
NY Hoop
06/12/2005, 2:51 PM
The investors in the smallest clubs are supporting irish football as well.
Whatever new league format comes in, a key aim should be for there to be a better chance of a first division team getting promoted to end the graveyard image of that division.
Agree.
Think Damien hit the nail on the head sunday when he said the Cup Final should have been earlier. Whatever format they come up with the season should not be dragged out til now. Finish the league fixtures second last weekend of October and have the Cup Final on the last sunday.
KOH
A face
06/12/2005, 7:07 PM
The eircom League is dying and there is only one hope left to save it...
Three words:
Extra. Time. Multiball!
:D
Brilliant !!
Post of the Month !!! :p
As my contribution to this debate I would recommend that everyone read an excellent book by an English journalist, Ed Horton. (He writes for When Saturday Comes) The book is called "Moving the Goalposts" and has some great words of wisdom, which though based on English football, are just as relevant in this Country. Of particular significance to this debate is a chapter called "Significance" in which he rails against the whole notion of franchise football, which seems to me to be what we are talking about here. I'll qoute some pieces from it
"The fans can tell the difference between football that we can take seriously and football that we can't. We know that friendlies do not matter. We know that relegation does..........Significance is everything. The only way to make the game significant, to make small town football matter, is to go in exactly the opposite from the way in which the prevailing trends would have us go. It is to maintain National Divisions, not split them up. It is to increase relegation and Promotion, not abandon them. It works. The real success of English football over the last decade is not the premiership. It is not the festival of greed, but the revitalisation of the grassroots. The real success has been the conference" He goes on to quote the increase in attendance at non league games since the conference was formed. I'll just quote one more sentance. "Football, at any level, thrives when, and only when, it begins to matter. That is what makes the game compelling."
For me that sums the whole thing up in a nutshell. That's why Cup games and league deciders get bigger crowds, that's why we should be striving to make this league as inclusive, not exclusive, as possible. That's how you attract supporters. By making it matter. By all means let's strive for better facilities, but we've got to bring everyone along. Otherwise lets just have Cork and Shels play each other 20 times a season to decide the title.:rolleyes:
sligoman
08/12/2005, 10:30 PM
This elite league that the genesis suggests is crap. Proposing that Galway go through on the basis that they have a good development plan is bull. It should be whoever is playing the best at the moment, the top teams like(weather you have a great history in the league shouldn't matter either), and if you improve then you will get promoted into the elite league. Theirs no point in having a great set-up off the pitch if you cant produce it on it.
btw Galway fans, I'm not setting on ye purposely, it's just ye are the only club(that I know of anyway) mentioned in their report.
thomas
09/12/2005, 12:19 PM
This elite league that the genesis suggests is crap. Proposing that Galway go through on the basis that they have a good development plan is bull. It should be whoever is playing the best at the moment, the top teams like(weather you have a great history in the league shouldn't matter either), and if you improve then you will get promoted into the elite league. Theirs no point in having a great set-up off the pitch if you cant produce it on it.
btw Galway fans, I'm not setting on ye purposely, it's just ye are the only club(that I know of anyway) mentioned in their report.
Thats ********. If Rovers and other clubs are paying tax it means that they are losing out on 30% of their wage bill to Tax just by doing things properly.
Some clubs are getting a competitive edge because of this and genesis and the UEFA License will put an end to it if they are implemented.
Of course this is the FAI and there has already been a fudge on the license last year and an even bigger one this season. So guess what will happen...
WeAreRovers
09/12/2005, 1:08 PM
In all fairness i think we all know how you boys have operated through the years in relation to tax and now that your club has got one a tax cert, and and by the way we all know how you got it as well because you were in the S**T so bad that there was settlement ! So i say to you have a cheek F***ing cheek preeching like that to any other club in the league go and jump. You should be thanking your lucky stars that your in the League at all because you should have been kicked out of it !
First prize in this years Not Having a Fcuking Clue What You're Talking About Award. :rolleyes:
As in any other "proper" league, clubs that are run correctly and within the licencing requirements will be rewarded while clubs who cheat and don't pay their taxes will be punished.
And in case you hadn't noticed the real SRFC fall into the first category.
thomas
09/12/2005, 3:40 PM
In all fairness i think we all know how you boys have operated through the years in relation to tax and now that your club has got one a tax cert, and and by the way we all know how you got it as well because you were in the S**T so bad that there was settlement ! So i say to you have a cheek F***ing cheek preeching like that to any other club in the league go and jump. You should be thanking your lucky stars that your in the League at all because you should have been kicked out of it !
Get used to it because a lot of clubs currently can not get a tax clearance cert because they dont pay any.
The fact that we came to an arrangement is the right thing to do. Ignoring the problem to suit all the other clubs is not the way to do it and is exactly what the FAI and clubs have done. UEFA's own rules require a cert to be produced dated 31/12/2005, the FAI are accepting 31/10/2004
Put it this way (apologies for those intellingent enoungh) Sligo will presumably be paying wages and the PAYE and PRSI due on it, yet many other clubs in the premier are not. So that means that When you are struggling to stay up you will know that the same €15k a month you pay to revenue is being used at other clubs to keep them ahead of you in the division.
As for preeching, yes we have a right, we came to a settlement, no other clubs have done that and it is putting clubs that are compliant at a 30% wage disadvantage. And FYI We had a valid tax cert on the last license, which ironically we could use on the current license application and pretty much proves that the certs being submitted by clubs aren't worth teh paper they're on.
Go ahead and kick us out, we'll join the Nordies while the revenue sports unit liquidates the league. It would be bizzare to say the least that we'd be kicked out on accounting grounds when the entire league is clearly a shambles in this regard.
Passive
09/12/2005, 3:56 PM
Completely agree with Thomas.
The league does not deserve to be taken seriously until the authorities demand that clubs are not run illegally. Clubs are not paying tax and that means they are engaging in illegal activity. That the authorities do not appear to care just about sums up Irish football.
thejollyrodger
09/12/2005, 6:05 PM
i envisaged entry to the new league would encompass everything from tax matters to stadium plans etc etc.... People wont invest in clubs until everything is above board and based on sound plans.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.