View Full Version : 16-18 Team Premier Division
Looking at the unofficial attendances for the 1st division i have to wonder if some clubs would be better off in Junior football? These figures i think are unofficial so could probably be reduced given fans normally count too high...
Dublin City 175 (592)
Kildare 186 (298)
Kilkenny 185 (110)
Monaghan 183 (182)
Do these clubs have a future in senior football as surely these number must just be friends & family attending so looking at junior football numbers.
Even promotion to the Premier wouldn't mean much increase in crowds as would mainly be way fans...
If dropped 4 teams could have a nice 18 team Premier division...?
gael353
28/11/2005, 12:05 PM
I dont agree with dropping any team but i think ull find that even those figures are exagerated. We played in monaghan this year in front of 37 ppl, Kilkenny had 48 earlyer in the season when we were down there,and dublin had about 70 for our latest kicking match with them.
Dodge
28/11/2005, 12:08 PM
A one division league is the worst thing that could happen. 4/5 teams fighting for europe and 13 with nothing to play for...
Lim till i die
28/11/2005, 12:12 PM
It wasn't so long ago the mighty Cork City were playing in a swamp in Bishopstown in front of the proverbial man and his dog. All of the clubs mentioned above have potential and although I agree the league has serious problems with marketing, standard etc. but dropping teams to make a great, big (and for the majority of the clubs involved, uninteresting) Premier Division is IMO not the way to go :ball:
I've only suggested for debate sake as 1st divisioners always complaining that its a wilderness.
I've left Limerick, Galway etc... in as clearly have potential.
DC/CHF will not increase home support next season as seen previously.
Monaghan don't look like would attract support if promoted.
Maybe a bit harsh on Kildare (newbies) & Kilkenny (decent ground by all accounts).
BTW Bishopstown had smaller crowds compared to crowds of last few years but never approached 150 people.
Poor Student
28/11/2005, 12:21 PM
In this day and age fans are not content to take interest in a league where there are many places with nothing to play for. Perhaps it's due to us seeing the EPL where so many places down the table carry potential European qualification and the bottom three face relegation. A single division with no relegation and very few European places would leave a boring season for most, rather like.....the 1st Division! You might actually see greater attendances at some of those clubs if they faced relegation. Even a relatively big historical club like Limerick went down to below the 200 average attendence mark sitting at the bottom of the 1st last season. It could happen to almost anyone down there.
pineapple stu
28/11/2005, 12:21 PM
We played in monaghan this year in front of 37 ppl
That was 2004, not 2005.
dublin had about 70 for our latest kicking match with them.
85 according to the Irish Times, which was apparently their lowest crowd of the season.
I don't pretend those figures are accurate, but they're not too far out. Which with figures like that wouldn't be hard anyway!
I agree that there's nothing to be gained by dropping teams - especially Monaghan, Kildare and Kilkenny who are the sole teams in their county. That said, with Monaghan and Kilkenny, it's hard to see how they're going to grow given that they've had those kind of attendances for the last 20 years. Although apparently Kilkenny had 300-400 for some games during their decent run recently, so maybe there is some hope for teams like that?
Lim till i die
28/11/2005, 12:25 PM
BTW Bishopstown had smaller crowds compared to crowds of last few years but never approached 150 people.
Population of Cork = Several hundred thousand
Population of Monaghan/ Kilkenny = ;)
Dublin City are also "newbies" who should be given a chance to develop (kinda like that 21 year old club that recently won the league)
Monaghan AFAIK have a lot of problems with Dublin players etc, that I think come up in another thread.
Kildare seem to be struggling alright but have huge potential due to their location.
Yes, the First Division is a mire but I wouldn't have it any other way :) A one division league would IMO absolutely kill interest for the vast majority of clubs
Wasn't too long ago had loads of 1st divisioners complaining about 10 team & wanting 1 divsion for all...
:confused:
Lim till i die
28/11/2005, 12:59 PM
Wasn't too long ago had loads of 1st divisioners complaining about 10 team & wanting 1 divsion for all...
:confused:
Probably a cartel of evil Cobh/Galway fans :)
NY Hoop
28/11/2005, 1:53 PM
Looking at the unofficial attendances for the 1st division i have to wonder if some clubs would be better off in Junior football? These figures i think are unofficial so could probably be reduced given fans normally count too high...
Dublin City 175 (592)
Kildare 186 (298)
Kilkenny 185 (110)
Monaghan 183 (182)
Do these clubs have a future in senior football as surely these number must just be friends & family attending so looking at junior football numbers.
Even promotion to the Premier wouldn't mean much increase in crowds as would mainly be way fans...
If dropped 4 teams could have a nice 18 team Premier division...?
Could'nt agree more. Bit harsh on the two KCFCs but realistically an 18 team premier league would be good in an All Ireland League.
KOH
sligoman
28/11/2005, 1:57 PM
The way it is now is fine. To put all teams into one league would be sh!te. If your good enough then you'll be/gain entry into the Premier, if not, then you'll get relegated to the First. It's as simple as that.
Ronnie
28/11/2005, 2:03 PM
This came up before in another thread and I'll make the same point again - Longford Town were the smallest club of the 22 just 8 seasons ago. The same thing could happen in Monaghan, Cobh, Kildare or Kilkenny. The others all have some history Athlone, Dundalk, Galway, Harps, Rovers, and it would seem only matter of time before any of these are back in the premier.
Tenderloins
28/11/2005, 2:04 PM
I'd say the best thing for next season is to have more teams promoted from the first division and more relegated from Premier Division! :) :p
Makes perfect sense:p
bohs til i die
28/11/2005, 2:07 PM
constantly changing the top flight and the league format is what is destroying the league.
How can clubs plan for the future and remain financially viable when the league format is decided two months before the season?
finlma
28/11/2005, 2:15 PM
We had up to 500 at some games this season. There is a bit of an ill feeling towards the team in Kilkenny as we don't have a single KK lad on the team and we even train in Dublin. There are 3 KK lads on the Waterford team so that team is more KK than our own.
Also there is a problem in KK that junior soccer players and clubs disassociate themselves from KK City. A lot of lads have been approached to play for KKFC but would prefer to stay playing junior.
We do have one of the best grounds in the first division and one of the strongest teams so we won't be kicked out. There is a decent development plan in place too.
I really feel some teams would be better off as successful junior clubs than senior also-rans. I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.
sligoman
28/11/2005, 3:11 PM
I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.You dont have to, we all know this is more of your anti-Dublin City crap. They're in the Premier Division and yes, ye will have to play them next season, get over it!:rolleyes:.
I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.
But you did in your initial post.
Drumcondra Red
28/11/2005, 3:17 PM
I really feel some teams would be better off as successful junior clubs than senior also-rans. I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.
I'm not sure how accurate this is, but the league below the 1st Division you must win a certain amout to qualify for consideration to enter the league, but the leagues beneeth this have a hell of a lot more money in them, would this be correct??? If not how does it work???
You dont have to, we all know this is more of your anti-Dublin City crap. They're in the Premier Division and yes, ye will have to play them next season, get over it!:rolleyes:.
And are you happy with that, give me Shamrock Rovers over Seery's Franchise anyday.
I actually think it's a sad indictement of this league that the most forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen (Cork City), along with other progressive clubs like Shels and Derry, will be forced to compete with and be held back by a non entity like Seerys franchise.
I actually think it's a sad indictement of this league that the most forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen
Previous holder of this title include Shamrock Rovers, Shelbourne, Derry City, St. Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Dundalk.
Get over yourself Colm.
Drumcondra Red
28/11/2005, 3:46 PM
And are you happy with that, give me Shamrock Rovers over Seery's Franchise anyday.
I actually think it's a sad indictement of this league that the most forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen (Cork City), along with other progressive clubs like Shels and Derry, will be forced to compete with and be held back by a non entity like Seerys franchise.
Well yeah, considering they couldn't do the business on the pitch and the behaviour of their "supporters" off the pitch, I for one am glad they've gone!
forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen
Hmmm where have I seen/ heard that before??? :confused: Oh yeah, every fcuking year its said about somebody, now get back to reality! Surely the same could be said about Cork??? 21 years is hardly a "history" also it could be claimed by some that you lot rose from the ashes of many other Cork teams of years gone by, could it not??? (Maybe not accuratley, but it could be claimed)
Ronnie
28/11/2005, 3:46 PM
Held back? Why? Surely if you play DC home twice you expect 6 points? Gate? Are you saying that because its only DC that crowd will be well down, surely the same logic will apply to UCD, Bray, Longford and depending how the season is going everyone else. Therefore you are relying on your home support, which if every other successful club is a guide, has been extremely fickle to say the least.
Bald Student
28/11/2005, 4:03 PM
Colm,
Let your progressive, forward-thinking, bla-bla-bla club do it's talking on the pitch instead of complaining when UCD, Bray and Longford take points from Turners Cross. No doubt if DCFC go down to Cork and get a result yee'll be calling them to be thrown out of the league as well.
irrevelant in 2007 the date that the recomendations of Genesis will be implemented.Every club will have to have its house fully in order on and off the field or they will find themselves in the wilderness wherever that is finally going to be.
sligoman
28/11/2005, 4:14 PM
I actually think it's a sad indictement of this league that the most forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen (Cork City)Oh ffs, here we go again:rolleyes:. Another thread ruined, well done Colm!
Conor H
28/11/2005, 4:22 PM
Oh ffs, here we go again:rolleyes:. Another thread ruined, well done Colm!
Couldn't agree more....same people the whole time.
pineapple stu
28/11/2005, 4:24 PM
And are you happy with that, give me Shamrock Rovers over Seery's Franchise anyday.
I love the irony of Cork City fans calling DC a franchise! Remind me again - Cork City only exist because so many other Cork teams went bust and the league then decided they had to have a team in the Cork area, effectively to take advantage of the "Cork" name, hence City. Cork City are surely every much a franchise as Dublin City. In fact, the FAI expanded the league just to allow a Cork team into the league, and yet their fans will complain about shady shenanigans with DC's league entry.
same people the whole time.
Exactly it's always the same people from the same few clubs who get their knickers in a twist when a City fan dares state a fact.
NY Hoop
28/11/2005, 4:43 PM
And are you happy with that, give me Shamrock Rovers over Seery's Franchise anyday.
I actually think it's a sad indictement of this league that the most forward thinking, professional and progressive club this island has ever seen (Cork City), along with other progressive clubs like Shels and Derry, will be forced to compete with and be held back by a non entity like Seerys franchise.
Spot on.
KOH
No other City fan has endorsed Colms comments so keeo your so that makes it a "city FAN" not fans.
Partizan
28/11/2005, 5:08 PM
I love the irony of Cork City fans calling DC a franchise! Remind me again - Cork City only exist because so many other Cork teams went bust and the league then decided they had to have a team in the Cork area, effectively to take advantage of the "Cork" name, hence City. Cork City are surely every much a franchise as Dublin City. In fact, the FAI expanded the league just to allow a Cork team into the league, and yet their fans will complain about shady shenanigans with DC's league entry.
Every club in the league Pineapple is a franchise. A franchise is a license given by the FAI to operate a senior soccer license.
But youre right. There's been more Cork clubs down through the years then you can wave your stick at. :D
What next?, Cork Town :p
No other City fan has endorsed Colms comments so keeo your so that makes it a "city FAN" not fans.
You're not disagreeing either though Pete!;)
It's amazing.... if you say anything critical of the club on ccfc.ie your slated but on here if you dare say anything good about Cork City (or Rovers/Derry/Shels) you get slated by the usual suspects from the usual clubs!
The fact is that Cork City are the most professional and progressive club in the EL at the moment. Rico and Lennox seem to have a really good plan in place to ensure it contunues that way for some time to come too. If saying that upsets other fans, then fair enough I don't really give a flying fcuk. Perhaps if ye followed our example instead of just b!tchinga nd whining and wishing the few clubs that have taken the step forward would come back to ye're level your clubs would actually be in a far healthier state.
It's a shame that Rovers have got relegated but even still they remain one of the few clubs with the potential to move to the next step. Dublin CIty are the complete opposite of everything this league should be striving towards.
You're not disagreeing either though Pete!;)
Yeah but claiming we most progressive doesn't liken you to others. Colm - wasn't so long ago you critical of the club where as i've backed Brian Lennox for long time now.
Almost ever club in the country gone bust from time to time its just some renamed themselves while others did tax deals with the state.
We weren't always run well & no guarantee we always will be.
Something for fans of current top clubs who think that they will always up there to ponder- Gerry McDermott point out in todays independent that in 1980 the top five clubs were Limerick, Dundalk, Athlone, Shamrock Rovers, Harps.
I'd say the 10 first division has more title wins at this stage than the premier (that's a guess, I'll leave it to the stattos to add up the actual totals).
bigmac
28/11/2005, 5:50 PM
so how exactly are DC holding Cork back Colm?
If Cork can't get crowds in when they play certain clubs, that's their problem, no one elses.
Poor Student
28/11/2005, 6:05 PM
Premier Division:
Bohemian FC - 9 times
Cork City - 2 times
Derry City - 2 times
Shelbourne - 12 times
Sligo Rovers - 2 times
St. Pat's - 8 times
Waterford - 6 times
41 times between all the Premier clubs.
First Division
Athlone - 2 times?
Dundalk - 9 times
Limerick - 2 times
Shamrock Rovers - 15 times
28 times between all 1st Division clubs (I think).
Incidentally does anyone reckon in about 10 years its Shels who could be the ones with the most league titles? Also, some club websites are so crap they have no roll of honours.
pineapple stu
28/11/2005, 6:08 PM
Try rsssf (http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ierchamp.html).
dancinpants
28/11/2005, 6:09 PM
Something for fans of current top clubs who think that they will always up there to ponder- Gerry McDermott point out in todays independent that in 1980 the top five clubs were Limerick, Dundalk, Athlone, Shamrock Rovers, Harps.
I'd say the 10 first division has more title wins at this stage than the premier (that's a guess, I'll leave it to the stattos to add up the actual totals).
I agree totally with what yer saying, and its hard not to, considering how close we came to going down on a couple of ocassions. Tis a very fine line!!
As for the statto thing, (not including Cork, Derry and Sligo - all have 2 titles each) Shels, Bohs and Pat's alone have won one more league title than the top 5 you mentioned. So thats 7 more in the Premier - not an awful lot when you think about it.
Sorry I forgot about Waterford - make it 13
Whoops- I stand corrected! I thought Dundalk, Rovers and Limerick had won more than that and didn't realise Shels and Pats had won quie so many.
Wouldn't argue with the statement about Shels.
Yeah but claiming we most progressive doesn't liken you to others. Colm - wasn't so long ago you critical of the club where as i've backed Brian Lennox for long time now.
Almost ever club in the country gone bust from time to time its just some renamed themselves while others did tax deals with the state.
We weren't always run well & no guarantee we always will be.
Yeah Pete I know what you mean. However, we are currently most progressive and if Rico and Lennox can deliver on promises this will continue.
I was a bit critical of the club at the start of the season but I've always backed Brian Lennox even going back to the days of Liam Murphy's time in charge. I don't always agree with all his opinions or decisions but that's natural and he's delivered on all his promises so far i.e. 3,2,1 plus Euro progress.
sonofstan
28/11/2005, 6:30 PM
Something for fans of current top clubs who think that they will always up there to ponder- Gerry McDermott point out in todays independent that in 1980 the top five clubs were Limerick, Dundalk, Athlone, Shamrock Rovers, Harps.
I'd say the 10 first division has more title wins at this stage than the premier (that's a guess, I'll leave it to the stattos to add up the actual totals).
5 clubs won the league in the 80s - 4 of them are now in the first division
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