The Chants of Keano

[OwlsFan]

History has a habit of repeating itself. Ferguson walked off the pitch last night with chants of "Keano, Keano" ringing in his ears from many United fans after his team's failure to beat Villareal. Gordon McQueen in the Sky studio didn't like the chants at all. I vividly remember Mick McCarthy's last game ended in similar circumstances at home to the Swiss. Unlike McCarthy, I think Ferguson will survive his falling out with Keane but he has certainly built a rod for his own back. I did smile though when I heard the chants - who would have believed it that Ferguson would have ended up in a similar position to McCarthy.

I asked a friend, a Man U supporter, who boycotted Ireland games after Saipan because "the muppets had not supported Roy" whether he would now stop following Man U because Keane's team mates had apparently not stood by Roy in this instance. In fact the silence was deafening. No, he'll continue supporting Man U and they're not muppets. Interesting.

Will we ever see an Irish player with such influence again either at home or in the Premiership ? I doubt it.

[Stuttgart88]

Will we ever see an Irish player with such influence again either at home or in the Premiership ? I doubt it.
I doubt it too. Remarkable influence on the field & extraordinary ability to make the headlines off it.

Was he ever even shortlisted (even top 50) for European player of the year?

[as_i_say]

Liam Brady.

[JamesB]

Was he ever even shortlisted (even top 50) for European player of the year?

I'm sure he was but can't prove it.
he was on pele's list of the 100 greatest ever, but that list is a little political in places

[JamesB]

isn't the internet great though
27th - 2000
6th - 1999

source
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html

[Stuttgart88]

Liam Brady.

Is he coming out of retirement? :)


Thanks for the info on Keane.

[OwlsFan]

How often did he win the PFA Player of the Year ? Once in 2000? Seems strange bearing in mind how we hear so often he was the player of the last decade in the Premiership. May be he just wasn't liked by the other players.

[Stuttgart88]

Or just wasn't a glamour player.

[OwlsFan]

I'd forgotten Paul McGrath and Liam Brady also won it as well:

http://www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com/sport/player_of_the_year_award.html

Interesting that nearly all the Young Players of the Year went on to make it. Steve Moran of Southampton I don't remember too well.

[geysir]

isn't the internet great though
27th - 2000
6th - 1999

source
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html
Liam Brady was in the top 10 for 3 times in a row. The most acclaimed Irish footballer in this European footballer of the year poll.

[Karlos]

I've never seen a more talented Irish Footballer than Liam Brady - terrible shame he missed out on playing in the biggest events on the international stage. :)

[NeilMcD]

Keane should have won player of the year every year between 1997 and 2001. I think Ginola won it one year which was a disgrace.

[Karlos]

Keane should have won player of the year every year between 1997 and 2001. I think Ginola won it one year which was a disgrace.


I totally disagree - Dennis Bergkamp won it in Arsenal's Double Winning Season of 1998 and was throughly deserving of the award. He had an exceptional season, with amazing goals and skill and was without question the most outstanding player during that season. Roy Keane did not deserve the award in that season. You could make a case for other seasons but not that one.

[NeilMcD]

U are right I think Keane was injured for most of that season, and Bergkamp did deserve it. Maybe I should have qualified my statement a bit more but Keane should have a lot more than 1 PFA player of the year in my view.

[mandrake]

did anyone hear newstalk on monday morning when brady was saying that keane manipultes the media ...mutv, tom humphries, dunphy....
dunphy was in shock....said 'no one manipulates me!!!, then brady said, 'well you never say anything bad about him' and giles said he used dunphy......it was great

[Only2keanos]

As regards Keanos departure/sacking from Utd, Fergie is now a dead man walking. He is finished at utd. I always thought he would deserve a large degree of loyalty from the fans or the board for all his successes. But he has just opened the floodgates. He now deserves the same loyalty as he recently gave Keane - his voice on the field, his captain, the most important and influential player he ever had, without whom they would never have reached that european cup final, let alone winning all those leagues and cups.

I am glad the utd fans are chanting for keano, I was there the night of mccarthys last game, and the keano chants were the final nail in his coffin. Fergie may not be sacked before his next game, but I would be surprised if he makes it to the end of the season. As soon as they finish the season without winning either the league or european cup he is gone.

Keane may have only come a best placed 6th in the european footballer of the year and won only 1 pfa player of the year award, but I have no doubt that he was the most productive player the premiership ever saw and possibly Utds most important player ever.

Dont know where Roy will end up next, but I reckon he could probably slot in to any back 4 in the premiership (especially Utds) and be better than whats there for at least another couple of seasons.

[eirebhoy]

I'd forgotten Paul McGrath and Liam Brady also won it as well:

http://www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com/sport/player_of_the_year_award.html

Interesting that nearly all the Young Players of the Year went on to make it. Steve Moran of Southampton I don't remember too well.
And how close O'Shea was to getting it a couple of years ago.:eek:

[rodoman]

The crowd at Old Trafford were going to chant his name anyway last night after the news about Keano, and rightly so, he is one of their greatest ever. BUT it was plain to see that utd lacked any, and I mean ANY direction on the pitch last night.
Mark Lawererson said it as it was, they looked like 3 different teams, Defence, Midfield, and Forwards.
They (utd) would not have won the Champions League if Keano had not grabbed the game by the balls, (after been booked, and 2 nil down) and showed them what to do that night.
It seems that no Keano on the pitch means no clue as to what to do. For twelve years, even when he wasn't captain he was their driving force, he won't be replaced over night, that was plain to see too from last nights performance.
You may not like him, you might even call him a b****x, but football was his job, and he did it right. Fair play to him :ball:

[Glapots]

Keane should have won player of the year every year between 1997 and 2001. I think Ginola won it one year which was a disgrace.

Jaysus, get over it man! What a bizzare statement. You listen tot the media far too much. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture

[Stuttgart88]

Will we ever see an Irish player with such influence again either at home or in the Premiership ? I doubt it.
That was the original question.

Brady was far more talented but I've never seen anyone exert as much influence on a game of football as Keane.

You don't need to be able to do a million keepy-uppies to control a game. When we drew 1-1 at home to Portugal Keane was our best defender, best attacker and best forward. Unbelievable performance.

Keane's larger than life aura is because he captained one of the world's most glamourous clubs during a boom time for them & his career was played out in front of a global TV audience. Brady never had anything like that exposure, nor would he have wanted it I'd say. Different eras.

Could you imagine if Brady & Keane played together at their peaks?

[OwlsFan]

Keane should have won player of the year every year between 1997 and 2001. I think Ginola won it one year which was a disgrace.

Whatever about the football writers not voting for Keane, why do you think that his fellow professionals couldn't see it and didn't vote for him for the PFA award if he was so deserving ?

[eirebhoy]

Whatever about the football writers not voting for Keane, why do you think that his fellow professionals couldn't see it and didn't vote for him for the PFA award if he was so deserving ?
He won it in 2000. :)

[OwlsFan]

I know. I posted that already. It was just the comment that he should have won it every year since he was born (and before) I was questioning

[geysir]

That was the original question.Brady was far more talented but I've never seen anyone exert as much influence on a game of football as Keane.
Absolutly no doubt about Keane's influence in the game you mention and over his career. But I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of Brady having "far more talent". What exactly was that 'talent'? His talent in a nutshell was influencing games as "playmaker supreme",
as in "gliding through tackles, spraying inch-perfect passes around the pitch"
"he alone who possessed the attacking guile to break down opposition defences"
"the onus was on Brady as playmaker supreme".
I suppose I am biased, I witnessed his debut against Russia, only a George Best debut could have had the indelible impact that Brady made on us (the origional green army!) that famous day. There were no cameras there the day he (singlehandedly) dismantled and humiliated a Juve team with a magnificent display in 1979.

[soccerc]

I suppose I am biased, I witnessed his debut against Russia, only a George Best debut could have had the indelible impact that Brady made on us (the origional green army!) that famous day. There were no cameras there the day he (singlehandedly) dismantled and humiliated a Juve team with a magnificent display in 1979.
I was at that game too, against the might of the Soviet Union, a half day from school, unofficial of course, and 25p admission.

There were cameras that day and RTE have shown Givens' hat-trick a number of times over the past few years along with some clips of Brady's skills..

[Marked Man]

Whatever about the football writers not voting for Keane, why do you think that his fellow professionals couldn't see it and didn't vote for him for the PFA award if he was so deserving ?

Was it because he kept trying to break their legs?

[geysir]

I was at that game too, against the might of the Soviet Union, a half day from school, unofficial of course, and 25p admission.

There were cameras that day and RTE have shown Givens' hat-trick a number of times over the past few years along with some clips of Brady's skills..
Glad you shared the experience. Yes of course there was a camera there in Dalymount.
I wrote "There were no cameras there the day he (singlehandedly) dismantled and humiliated a Juve team with a magnificent display in 1979".

[OwlsFan]

Was it because he kept trying to break their legs?

Bergkamp who won it as well wouldn't exactly be a wilting lilly either when it comes to late tackles etc..

Shearer won it as well - I often wondered what he said to Keane who went ballistic at the comment and got sent off. Anyone know ?

[paul_oshea]

There were cameras that day and RTE have shown Givens' hat-trick a number of times over the past few years along with some clips of Brady's skills..

ya its on a dvd, the greatest irish soccer sporting moments!!! i have it so its def there!!

[OwlsFan]

Never mind the cameras. I was there getting crushed as a kid under the shed waiting for the roof to collapse in with the other people sitting on top of it. One of the great days at Dalymount followed by a 4-0 thrashing of Turkey with Givens getting all 4 that day if my memory serves we right. This was the start of us actually winning some international games. Before that we went along to see Dunphy & Co lose at home to Hungary, Austria etc etc.

[Stuttgart88]

Absolutly no doubt about Keane's influence in the game you mention and over his career. But I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of Brady having "far more talent". What exactly was that 'talent'? His talent in a nutshell was influencing games as "playmaker supreme",
as in "gliding through tackles, spraying inch-perfect passes around the pitch"
"he alone who possessed the attacking guile to break down opposition defences"
"the onus was on Brady as playmaker supreme".
I suppose I am biased, I witnessed his debut against Russia, only a George Best debut could have had the indelible impact that Brady made on us (the origional green army!) that famous day. There were no cameras there the day he (singlehandedly) dismantled and humiliated a Juve team with a magnificent display in 1979.
Was too young for Russia. I rember Brady's winner against France in 1977? First Irish game I watched on telly.

I don't disagree with anything you say about Brady. I just think that Brady is perceived as being more talented in the classical sense (hence my flippant keepy uppy remark). I'm not sure I understand the finer point of your post. Both great players but very different. And the original post was "will we ever..." not " have we ever..." which is why I didn't refer to Brady at the start.

Who was my childhood hero? Easy.

You can tell from my signature what I think about the original Green Army.

Juve 1979: 1-1 at Highbury. 1-0 in Turin (Vaessen). Humiliated? Or have I the wrong game? Maybe that was 1980 Euro CWC.

[geysir]

Was too young for Russia. I rember Brady's winner against France in 1977? First Irish game I watched on telly.
I don't disagree with anything you say about Brady. I just think that Brady is perceived as being more talented in the classical sense (hence my flippant keepy uppy remark). I'm not sure I understand the finer point of your post. Both great players but very different. And the original post was "will we ever..." not " have we ever..." which is why I didn't refer to Brady at the start.
Who was my childhood hero? Easy.
You can tell from my signature what I think about the original Green Army.
Juve 1979: 1-1 at Highbury. 1-0 in Turin (Vaessen). Humiliated? Or have I the wrong game? Maybe that was 1980 Euro CWC.
I can't rightly remember the Perrin thread had me going.
"Brady was far more talented but I've never seen anyone exert as much influence on a game of football as Keane".
I have seen Brady's talent and his talent translated into overflowing buckets of influence for Ireland, influencing a game from start to finish from box to box. Liam controlled games, that was his thing, in a very different way to Keane. Brady was every much a winner, ambitious and a perfectionist as Roy but without the destructive baggage. The Juve game (yes 1980) is just an obvious comparison with Roy. Liam has done the Juve thing about 2 or 3 hundred times.
"Liam Brady however rates the two legs of the 1980 semi final of the Cup Winners Cup against Juventus as the biggest achievement of any Arsenal team he played in. Brady again was unstoppable and showed the Italians just how good he was. Since they couldn't stop him fairly they resorted to try and kick him of the park."
"The away leg was not shown on TV due to Forest playing in a European Cup final that night. Brady had been immense in both legs"
Juve signed Liam after that.
I would revise your statement to read Brady was far more talented and more influential. All that for 2 words but Liam has earned them.

[robbie_B]

http://audio.todayfm.com/files/giftleave.wma

[FarBeag]

Excellent

[Stuttgart88]

"The away leg was not shown on TV due to Forest playing in a European Cup final that night. Brady had been immense in both legs"
Juve signed Liam after that.
I would revise your statement to read Brady was far more talented and more influential. All that for 2 words but Liam has earned them.

I listened to it all on radio 2 as it was then. I was overjoyed when Vaessen scored right at the very end. Shame about the final though.

Point taken on Brady! My favourite Brady game was his last at Lansdowne (?) against Bulgaria, right at the end of his career.

[dr_peepee]

"Keepy Uppy"????:confused:

You're in England too long Stutty..:)

Heads and Volley's my friend....

As in "How many heads and volleys can you do?"

or

"Fancy a game of Heads and Volleys". (A knock out game due lives lost based on heads and volley's conceded by the keeper. Some regional variations on rules but generaly two lives lost for a head, one for a volley. Any wides, overs or un-volleyed scores resulted in that person taking his place in goal.)

Keepy uppy indeed! I'd have had my sexuality brought into question. if I called it "keepy uppy" where i grew up.;)

[brine3]

Hooghoudtienen (Keep Up Tens) is what it's called in Amsterdam.

one for a volley, two for a header and three for an overhead volley

[OwlsFan]

I would revise your statement to read Brady was far more talented and more influential. All that for 2 words but Liam has earned them.

Having seen both at their prime it's hard to say which was the better player since both were very different midfielders. Brady is the better passer and had the ability to beat a player. Keane the box to box midfielder who seldom gave away possession and could win it back.

If I had to choose between the two in an Irish team, I'd go for Keane on the grounds that he offers so much both in defence and attack.

The fates conspired against Liam in Euro 88 and Italia 90 and perhaps that's perhaps one of the reasons he was particularly trenchant in his attack on Keane for Saipan - never having had the opportunity himself to play in such a tournament for Ireland.

[Dotsy]

Having seen both at their prime it's hard to say which was the better player since both were very different midfielders. Brady is the better passer and had the ability to beat a player. Keane the box to box midfielder who seldom gave away possession and could win it back.

If I had to choose between the two in an Irish team, I'd go for Keane on the grounds that he offers so much both in defence and attack.

The fates conspired against Liam in Euro 88 and Italia 90 and perhaps that's perhaps one of the reasons he was particularly trenchant in his attack on Keane for Saipan - never having had the opportunity himself to play in such a tournament for Ireland.

It must have had a bearing on how he viewed the Saipan incident. To be honest having lost out on playing in a major finals I wouldn't blame him for not apprecating Keane's decision.

[geysir]

The fates conspired against Liam in Euro 88 and Italia 90 and perhaps that's perhaps one of the reasons he was particularly trenchant in his attack on Keane for Saipan - never having had the opportunity himself to play in such a tournament for Ireland.
I am sure it left an impression.
Even if he had not experienced the hurt of missing the '88 Finals, Liam would not have supported Roy.
As a captain of his country at the world cup finals it would be inconceivable for Liam to walk out or get himself in a situation where he would be sent home.
That sense of professionalism was a consistant theme throughout Liam's footballing life for his clubs and country no matter who was the manager.

[StuttgartVet]

Keane should have won player of the year every year between 1997 and 2001. I think Ginola won it one year which was a disgrace.

I think Ginola won it in 1999 - the year United won the treble!!

[Stuttgart88]

"Keepy Uppy"????:confused:

You're in England too long Stutty..:)

Heads and Volley's my friend....

As in "How many heads and volleys can you do?"

or

"Fancy a game of Heads and Volleys". (A knock out game due lives lost based on heads and volley's conceded by the keeper. Some regional variations on rules but generaly two lives lost for a head, one for a volley. Any wides, overs or un-volleyed scores resulted in that person taking his place in goal.)

Keepy uppy indeed! I'd have had my sexuality brought into question. if I called it "keepy uppy" where i grew up.;)

My heads & volleys record wasn't impressive Peeps. But no problems on the keepy uppy front yet.

We used to play "corners". Attackers got points for a headed or volleyed goal, goalie got a point for a wide.

Did you ever play Curb? Where you threw a ball at the curb at the far side of the road, throw-in style, and if the ball hit the curb and came back to you you scored a point. We were playing it outside my mate's flat in Ranelagh aged about 25 when John Coady, ex-Rovers & Chelsea walked past with his post bag and said "Jaysus lads, isn't it time you grew up?"

In the context of my original quote (keepy uppy, heads & volleys or whatever) there was a letter to The Observer at the w/e asking how Keane could be considered "great" when he had virtually no skill. I was tempted to respond but hardly knew where to start. I think it's the difference between those who understand football and those who think greatness is all about fancy tricks.