Taking the power back

[bawn79]

This is my first post so im probably going to come across as a complete nutter but im a huge Irish fan and im really worried and frankly peeved off by the lack of a say we the irish public have in the appointment of the next irish boss & in the direction irish soccer is proceeding.
Ive been thinking how to readdress this imbalance, I log on to a couple of different message boards about Irish soccer and there seems to be a lot of decent, sane people that want to help it from the grassroots up.
I play soccer down in the sticks in North Tipp and we have a meeting every couple of months where each club sends delegates to vote on issues, elect members etc.
So what would happen if among all the decent soccer folk on all these various message boards got together to form for the want of another word a union or a political party. Then we all joined our various local clubs strategically so as to get the greatest amount of people on to the largest amount of boards. I presume if I was to get on the board that runs the junior league in north tipp that I would be eligible to be elected to a munster board and from munster to a national body and so on.
So rather than having a Eircom League supporters group that the FAI doesnt take seriously and just gives the odd set of tickets to such as the Faroe Islands match then we the fans would actually have power and a voice through our elected members.
Just putting it out there, revolution from within. Hope this generates some healthy feedback and no im not volunteering myself to be president (Fuhrer prehaps!) of this group.

[OwlsFan]

Well, for a start, judging by the diverse opinions of supporters on this Forum you'll never get a supporters group that represents the voice of supporters because there is no such unified voice.

Furthermore, the FAI Board of Management is made up of the following:

the Honorary Secretary, President, Honorary Treasurer, Chief Executive, and the six chairpersons of the Development, International, Domestic, eircom League, Legal/Corporate and Underage committees.

Thus the Eircom League is well represented on the Board of Management.

Furthermore, look at the list of affiliates to the FAI:

http://www.fai.ie/aboutus.asp?hlid=221524

Every level of football in Ireland is covered. However, there is a gap for supporters perhaps but do they know more than the people who have dedicated their lives to Junior football etc in Ireland ?

[bawn79]

No, good points but it still doesnt change the fact that most people arent in favour of the current administration but we can do nothing to get them out.
I dont know was just a suggestion rather than talking about the problems maybe we could sort some of them out ourselves.
For instance if Terry Venables was made manager of Ireland which looks likely at the moment it would be a huge setback for Irish soccer and yet we the people that it will affect have no say in the matter.
Its just frustrating...

[klein4]

sure am sure the people already there started off as fans as well...
its just human nature to turn into a total power hungry useless publicity junkie give tickets to me mates scumbag.......no?

[OwlsFan]

But didn't "the people" want Brian Kerr ? So the people are not always right especially bearing in mind that Fianna Fail is the most supported party in Ireland (but that's a separate issue).

If you took a poll of the people, other than on Martin O'Neill, you would get no consensus on whom they would like to be the manager.

[OwlsFan]

sure am sure the people already there started off as fans as well...
its just human nature to turn into a total power hungry useless publicity junkie give tickets to me mates scumbag.......no?

Always nice to see reasoned argument. Who gave tickets to his mates ? Who is useless and power hungry ?

[klein4]

useless = fire a manager without having any back up plan
power hungry = shaft rooney,menton,byrne and kerr
publicity junkie = pick up a paper lately??? see also confiscating of red card protest then only to say in an interview that "not many people protested"
gives tickets to me mates = taking tickets back off eircom league fans for high profile games for "redistribution"
do I have to spell it out to you???????????

maybe all posts that you cant understand or dont agree with should be removed?
eh?
stalin????????????

[OwlsFan]

useless = fire a manager without having any back up plan

Kerr wasn't fired. His contract ended at the end of the qualifying campaign and it wasn't renewed. Since we don't have a competitive international for some time there is no rush to hire someone new.


power hungry = shaft rooney,menton,byrne and kerr

Are you a fan of Rooney, Menton and Byrne ? I don't have the insider track on the what goes on in the FAI but having read BEHIND THE GREEN DOOR those individuals seemed to made a rod for their own backs. Kerr wasn't shafted - unless you call a unanimous decision of the Board of Management not to renew a contract "shafted"


publicity junkie = pick up a paper lately???

Not sure what you mean here but presumably journalists are seeking people out from the FAI for quotes at all times on who will be the new Irish manager. If they don't give interviews they'll be condemned by the likes of you for failing to provide information.


See also confiscating of red card protest then only to say in an interview that "not many people protested"

Seen neither red card protests at Irish games nor people confiscating red cards (which they would have no right to do) so can't comment on this.


gives tickets to me mates = taking tickets back off eircom league fans for high profile games for "redistribution"

You have it on good authority then that the tickets which were available for friendlies for Eircom fans were given to "mates" for the big games - I suspect you don't but it makes for a good unsubstantiated accusation.



maybe all posts that you cant understand or dont agree with should be removed? eh? stalin????????????

I have dared to disagree with your unsubstantiated allegations and I am accused of being Stalin (the master of the unsubstantiated allegation) :rolleyes: :D

[eirebhoy]

Jaysus Owlsfan, you never let the FAI down. :)

[Stuttgart88]

having read BEHIND THE GREEN DOOR those individuals seemed to made a rod for their own backs.

Off topic, but is this worth reading? How objectivbe is Menton's account of his time there?

[tetsujin1979]

Is he aware that the title is the same as a 70's "adult" film in cinemas around the time of Deep Throat??

[klein4]

I think with kerr he was left out to dry in terms of the slience from merrion square when he was getting a very hard time from the media. most organisations would come out and give some form of support for an underfire manager.If the situation is of as much concern that the manger needed to be gotten rid of then why is there no rush to bring in the new manager? surely rebuilding has to be undertaken???
I wouldnt be a "fan" of any adminstrator over another but I do feel in Rooneys case that he seemed a bit more open to change and a fresh way of looking at things then some of his predecessors. I didnt think much of O'Byrne but he was criticised for basing the funding of a stadium on selling of long term seats which is basically what they are going to do now with the new lansdowne.
If you think tickets for big games are not used to curry favour with people whos vote you may be looking for some time in the future then you are a less cynical man than me. fair play to ya.
Red card protest was against faroe islands as far as I remember..but security confiscated them from everyone entering stadium with them and told people they could not enter otherwise. I thought it was absolutely disgraceful and is one of the main reasons I cant stand the FAI. Normally I would give people the benefit of the doubt but when you see how an organisation operates at first hand then the mind boggles at how they go about their other business.
John delaney was asked about it in the sunday indo by dion fanning and he said not many people protested on the night. to leave out the little fact that he at ordered security to confiscate cards on the way in I found unbelievable.

Attempting to take back the tickets which were available to el fans for all previous games for the big games against France and Switzerland was arm chancing of the highest level. Even if you take the less cynical view it at the least smacks of very poor organisation to suddenly realise you need tickets for away fans???????? who would have thought at the start of the compaign that france would have more fans than the faroes???? Mmmmmmmmmm

[OwlsFan]

Off topic, but is this worth reading? How objectivbe is Menton's account of his time there?

It is all self serving but it is a great read. The **** up with World Cup tickets and the Eircom Stadium saga plus the Saipan incident as viewed from the FAI. Kline4's pal Delaney doesn't come out smelling of roses either.

[OwlsFan]

Jaysus Owlsfan, you never let the FAI down. :)

:D Just one of my (many) hobby horses. I'd love to see those who criticize the people in the FAI come up with better ideas as to how to run the game in this country, bearing in mind that the Association is made up almost exclusively of people involved at all levels of Irish soccer in this country, including the Eircom league (i.e. soccer people). There is this concept that they're all "suits" and don't care about soccer - from looking at their website, the make-up of the organisation is almost exclusively football people, many at grassroots level. The problem with soccer in this country is much more fundamental than the FAI - it has to do with the predominance of the GAA and English soccer. Have the IFA and WFA done any better ?

[klein4]

Have the IFA and WFA done any better ?

nobody cares about the farmers or the wrestlers....

[OwlsFan]

I think with kerr he was left out to dry in terms of the slience from merrion square when he was getting a very hard time from the media. most organisations would come out and give some form of support for an underfire manager.

I think Kerr started the whole thing by trying to get his contract renegotiated before the final qualifiers and that started the whole media feeding frenzy about his job. The FAI would have been condemned by you and others as hypocrites if they had supported him and then not renewed his contract after the next game. As Bart Simpson would say, "you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't".


I wouldnt be a "fan" of any adminstrator over another but I do feel in Rooneys case that he seemed a bit more open to change and a fresh way of looking at things then some of his predecessors. I didnt think much of O'Byrne but he was criticised for basing the funding of a stadium on selling of long term seats which is basically what they are going to do now with the new lansdowne..

Like yourself I don't know enough about them to comment although all seemed to have ideas, whether good or bad. The Eircom Stadium idea though of O'Beirne's seemed doomed. I signed up for it but when they came looking for money I knew the writing was on the wall and hung on to my cash. I am still not sure why Rooney had to leave with another massive payout from the coffers of the FAI. Now that does irritate me big time these payouts the FAI has had to make to get rid of people.



If you think tickets for big games are not used to curry favour with people whos vote you may be looking for some time in the future then you are a less cynical man than me. fair play to ya...

So it is supposition as I suspected.


Red card protest was against faroe islands as far as I remember..but security confiscated them from everyone entering stadium with them and told people they could not enter otherwise. I thought it was absolutely disgraceful and is one of the main reasons I cant stand the FAI....

Agreed they had no right to do that.


A
ttempting to take back the tickets which were available to el fans for all previous games for the big games against France and Switzerland was arm chancing of the highest level. Even if you take the less cynical view it at the least smacks of very poor organisation to suddenly realise you need tickets for away fans???????? who would have thought at the start of the compaign that france would have more fans than the faroes???? Mmmmmmmmmm

Well, you have stated the reason. The French and Swiss fans had to be accomodated. In previous games only a handful of French and Swiss fans travelled to Lansdowne. Obviously the demand from the French/Swiss organisations for the last two games exceeded expectations.

[klein4]

if the supporters had to be accomadated why not take them off other fans??
or are you just commenting on something you know arse all about.
just suppositon on your part as they say??
and I noticed your media shy hero john delaney was on marian finucane last week.
am sure there is a big football support among her listenership.

[OwlsFan]

if the supporters had to be accomadated why not take them off other fans?? or are you just commenting on something you know arse all about. .

Perhaps most of the rest of the fans are block bookers. And of course whose idea was it anyway that for many games there should be tickets allocated for Eircom League fans ? Hold on. It was the FAI. Sheessssh. Better not mention that.


I noticed your media shy hero john delaney was on marian finucane last week.am sure there is a big football support among her listenership.

He's not my hero and I never said he was media shy. Oh, didn't realise it's now a crime to go on Marian Finucane show. As for football support among her listenership, you seemed to be an avid fan if you heard him on it.

[klein4]

it was rooneys idea
it was a block booking
if you are going to defend an organisation so much at least try and have some understanding of how they operate.

[soccerc]

And of course whose idea was it anyway that for many games there should be tickets allocated for Eircom League fans ? Hold on. It was the FAI. Sheessssh. Better not mention that.



it was rooneys idea
Both Wrong

It was NOT the FAI's idea to allocate tickets to eircom League Supporters, the theory behind the scheme began in Tirana Airport in 2003 and initial opposition from the FAI was eventually overcome following a series of meetings and discussions.

[Bald Student]

Well, you have stated the reason. The French and Swiss fans had to be accomodated. In previous games only a handful of French and Swiss fans travelled to Lansdowne. Obviously the demand from the French/Swiss organisations for the last two games exceeded expectations.That would have been fine if the fans had been told in advance that their tickets were not guarenteed but the opposite is true. It was dishonest of the FAI to tell fans that to keep their allocation they had to buy tickets to the friendly games (some of which were on a Wednesday evening and very difficult for fans of some clubs to get to) and then to cut the allocation once the friendlies were all over.

[OwlsFan]

It was NOT the FAI's idea to allocate tickets to eircom League Supporters, the theory behind the scheme began in Tirana Airport in 2003 and initial opposition from the FAI was eventually overcome following a series of meetings and discussions.

So it wasn't their idea but they agreed to the suggestion. That seems progressive to me.

I agree that if fans had been promised tickets also for the big games and then the FAI reneged, then that is not right. However, not being party to the agreement I don't know what the promises were. Perhaps there were assumptions made by the supporters since I doubt if there was a written agreement between the parties. In either event it seems to be a PR mess again for the FAI since the good of favouring Eircom supporters for tickets was ruined by then taking them back for the foreign supporters. Obviously they did not explain that this might happen or if they did the message was lost someplace.

klein4, stick to listening to the Marian Finucane show for your information.

[soccerc]

So it wasn't their idea but they agreed to the suggestion. That seems progressive to me.

Perhaps there were assumptions made by the supporters since I doubt if there was a written agreement between the parties.

No assumptions, there was paperwork that led to the tickets being restored.

[OwlsFan]

I'd love to see what the "paperwork" said out of curiosity.

[klein4]

my information was correct.
it was rooney who backed the idea and when he was replaced the others wanted rid of the scheme.
you have some idea in your head that the fai are hard done by and refuse to let anyone convince ya otherwise. maybe you should stop getting your information from fai press releases.

marian rocks.

[soccerc]

my information was correct.
it was rooney who backed the idea and when he was replaced the others wanted rid of the scheme.
you have some idea in your head that the fai are hard done by and refuse to let anyone convince ya otherwise. maybe you should stop getting your information from fai press releases.

marian rocks.

Your information is not correct and I should know. The scheme was in place before Rooney was even appointed.

[klein4]

I said rooney backed the idea which he did
and I said when he was replaced the others wanted rid of it which they did.
fair play to ya if you were one of the organisers but its got nuthin to do with the point I was making that they behaved in an underhand way re the tickets and re the red card protest. And that is why I think they are a crappy organisation.

[soccerc]

I said rooney backed the idea which he did
and I said when he was replaced the others wanted rid of it which they did.
fair play to ya if you were one of the organisers but its got nuthin to do with the point I was making that they behaved in an underhand way re the tickets and re the red card protest. And that is why I think they are a crappy organisation.

The point is you are commenting on issues that you have no real knowledge of and that undermines your less than solid arguments. Don't get me wrong I understand your frustration but if you are going to argue a point, be in posession of all the relevant facts - not hearsay.

[klein4]

I stand by everything I said.
I was at lansdowne the night of the red card protest so that happened to me.or are you now going to tell me it didnt?????????
the ticket thing is my reading of the situation. you havent said anything to make me think otherwise
I dont give a toss about the exact history of the tickets. The point I made was that the FAI behaved badly in relation to it. that info is readily available. arse all to do with hearsay.(great band and all that they are)
These are the two instances I have had any contact with the association so I have a bad impression of them. before that I would have been totally indifferent towards them. I couldnt beleive the way they went on. especially over that red card protest.
"The point is you are commenting on issues that you have no real knowledge of "
feckin hell well if that is the case you may as well delete all them who will be the next ireland manager threads on this forum so!