Cheers RTE

[A face]

Alright ... Steve i take all that onboard ... and you make good points .... but the string in their bow is there because of the effort they put into it. The advertising that they done on it is unreal.
You'll know better than most what they are spending on it .... serious figures i'd imagine myself.
If they spent the same on eircom League where would it be ??
If it had a level playing field .... i would be a different story.


And why is everyone holding RTE to blame here. There is only ONE body on this island who have a clearly stated aim of promoting Irish football - the FAI. They are the ones who people's venom should be directed towards - not media channels, gardeners, The Wolfe Tones, Tayto, or any other groups with no stated responsibilities towards Irish football.

I know its the FAI, jebus ... we all know that like .... but regarding the role they (RTE) play in Irish football, they could do alot better imo.

[nismo]

Are we honestly comparing ourselves to the premiership?


He mentioned he was a former LOI standout and we should be happy he's playing in the premeirship. Next we'll be giving out about people rating the CL above our competitions:rolleyes:

i agree with you..some of the comments thrown around here are crazy..

ive been wanting to say this for a while but some of the EL fans on here are living in a dream world!:rolleyes:

[A face]

i agree with you..some of the comments thrown around here are crazy..

ive been wanting to say this for a while but some of the EL fans on here are living in a dream world!:rolleyes:

I dont think you are referring to me there but ...... just for the record, to clear things up like ....


Is wanting your National Broadcaster to show your National League living in a dream world ??


And the whole reason the thread starting ..... a flippant throw-away comment from a commentator on our National Broadcasters channel while showing a league in a different country, that imo (and i am entitled to it) it didnt directly lend itself to supporters of the domestic league, hence people were p!ssed off over it. I wasn't actually that p!ssed off over it .... but more to do with that is the situation or status of our league in our National Broadcaster eyes. The fact it was so acceptable .... that is what has got my goat. (Can i stress that last part there, the italics.)

That last paragraph is my tupence ...... not attacking you directly nismo but for people like you to say i or many like me are in a dream world is so unbelievable it is not true. Fair enough if you have no pride in your league or country, or maybe you have low standards regarding the programming that you as a subscriber to your National Brodcaster are given the option to watch. But surely you must realise that there are others who do actually care about it. For you to backout of the debate with your comment is lame, so why make it. It contributed nothing to it .... if you are actually being honest, you'd probably say "i dont have an opinion", or "i have actually never thought this thing through"

And steve just back to the last point ..... yeah the FAI are the main target for any venom, or at least should be .... but while we are talking about the National Broadcaster, surely we can discuss whether or not they should have a better policy towards eL (given that this is where this thread meandered to) .... i pay a licence fee that has been goes up nearly every year .... should they not fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster and champion the Irish interest in sport outlined by themselves ..... if the answer is no .... then shouldn't all the other stations be given part of the licence fee ..... what are they doing that is so different to RTE ??

[dcfcsteve]

And steve just back to the last point ..... yeah the FAI are the main target for any venom, or at least should be .... but while we are talking about the National Broadcaster, surely we can discuss whether or not they should have a better policy towards eL (given that this is where this thread meandered to) .... i pay a licence fee that has been goes up nearly every year .... should they not fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster and champion the Irish interest in sport outlined by themselves ..... if the answer is no .... then shouldn't all the other stations be given part of the licence fee ..... what are they doing that is so different to RTE ??

I totally agree with the sentiment A Face, but the problem here is that everyone talks about the EL in isolation. Yes, you're a license payer and want to see more EL on TV. But there are probably 1m+ license payers in the country, many of whom would also have strong views on what they would like to see - much of which probably doesn't get coverage either. TV funding is like taxes - you can't have individuals seeking to decide the minutae of what their tax should and shouldn't be spend upon, as the system would become completely unworkable if you went down that route. If TV License payers were setting RTE's schedule, I still don't believe the EL would secure much or any increase in coveragey, as I'd expect no more than 5%* of the 1m+ license holders would prioritise domestic football (*assumption based on the 10-15,000 weekly attendance at games, with a generous allowance for armchair and infrequent supporters on top of this). Instead we'd have more fishing, gardening, nature programmes etc etc etc.

The league needs an increase in media coverage to generate awareness and interest, but we have no god-given entitlement to that from RTE or any other media outlet. Therefore, the easiest and quickest way to secure this desired increase in coverage is, in my view, through the FAI using their access to international games/manager/players to coerce channels into increased coverage. No EL coverage = no international access, end of story. Trying to convince RTE that we're more worthy of coverage than fishing, gardening or any other 'minority' interest - let alone one of the best-supported league's in the world - is just simply not going to work.

[A face]

Right .... i take all that on board. (although when i was saying it, i wasn't saying they should swing totally over to eL footie, just proportionately even based on their viewing figures .... right now no advertising for eL but when there is a game on, could get 180,000 looking at it, but away from that.)

.... Olympics ... Ireland ... barr drugged up horses ... what have we done ??

Boxing was a big source of medals for the Irish when i was growing up .... how much boxing do we see on the telly ?? (not pro Steve Collins etc. ... young lads in All-Irelands)

Athletic, we have a few medals ... nothing to boast about .... The biggest two events in the Athletics calendar this years, didn't even get mentioned on the news, i am not saying highlights here ..... i am saying just the fact they were actually on.

Fishing ..... huge sources of revenue for this country, i know it aint a reason to show it but surely would lend itself to sponsorship because of vested interests etc. ..... nothing all year.

The point i am making is .... it is not just eL that is suffering, it is Irish sport.

If they are not going to support it or give priority to it (Irish Sport) then they shouldn't be given the money for it ..... surely that is a valid point, why shouldn't TV3 get a shared of the licence fee if they show the same percentage of hours of Irish sport as RTE ??
Why should RTE have all the spoils and TV3 have none ??
If they are not going to fulfill the role ...... that is fine, but surely they shouldn't then get the benefit of the licence fee for not doing so.

[dav_sfc]

Firstly Steve, do you think that noticing a lack of boxed quotes or addressee is some kind of cleaver observation? Unless you’re totally dense I think it’s blindingly obvious who I was talking too. Anyway, I try to quote as little as possible because it makes a forum look like a complete eyesore. So no points there you witty genius!

The next thing has got to be your ridiculous analogy about football not being like on-running episodes (do you need me to quote it?)! This has got to be your worst creation. Let me restructure this analogy for you. Each match is like an episode, the on-running plot in the series is the league, you know, where actions like scoring and conceding goals, gaining points, getting booked and sent off and buying and selling players all build up to one giant climactic end in November. Oh the drama! Each match along the way has a knock on effect to the week after, as do most of the items in the list above.
I know that just because RTE show EL games and Premiership games that they don’t need to promote every football league in the world but that is not what you were saying. Your skewed analogy tried to make the out that somehow promoting the league in general was akin to promoting every other tedious sitcom, I think your clutching at straws. It hardly makes sense to say the EL is rubbish and you can watch some of that rubbish here on RTE.
I’m glad anyway to see that despite the poor attendances and lesser quality football in the EL that not one, not two but three television stations do promote the league by advertising and showing EL matches and highlights. Why? I guess it must be in their best interest to.

By the way, sorry I didn’t manage to turn down the condescension batman….
I hope you don’t go around being a hypocrite too often. Well done Einstein.

[NY Hoop]

Most pointless thread ever. I never watch the premiersh1t but watched that game cos Murphy was playing. IMO he was not out of his depth at all.

RTEngland dont care about the EL. Never have never will. We played 34 games when we last won the league and they had a camera at 16 of them. National broadcaster my rectum.

BTW Stephen Alkin is a Rovers fan:D but also a chelsea fan:rolleyes:


KOH

[A face]

Most pointless thread ever.

Debate is pointless ?? :rolleyes: :confused:

[dcfcsteve]

Firstly Steve, do you think that noticing a lack of boxed quotes or addressee is some kind of cleaver observation? Unless you’re totally dense I think it’s blindingly obvious who I was talking too. Anyway, I try to quote as little as possible because it makes a forum look like a complete eyesore. So no points there you witty genius!

The next thing has got to be your ridiculous analogy about football not being like on-running episodes (do you need me to quote it?)! This has got to be your worst creation. Let me restructure this analogy for you. Each match is like an episode, the on-running plot in the series is the league, you know, where actions like scoring and conceding goals, gaining points, getting booked and sent off and buying and selling players all build up to one giant climactic end in November. Oh the drama! Each match along the way has a knock on effect to the week after, as do most of the items in the list above.
I know that just because RTE show EL games and Premiership games that they don’t need to promote every football league in the world but that is not what you were saying. Your skewed analogy tried to make the out that somehow promoting the league in general was akin to promoting every other tedious sitcom, I think your clutching at straws. It hardly makes sense to say the EL is rubbish and you can watch some of that rubbish here on RTE.
I’m glad anyway to see that despite the poor attendances and lesser quality football in the EL that not one, not two but three television stations do promote the league by advertising and showing EL matches and highlights. Why? I guess it must be in their best interest to.

By the way, sorry I didn’t manage to turn down the condescension batman….
I hope you don’t go around being a hypocrite too often. Well done Einstein.

Good to see you keeping the maturity levels of your response high Dav. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that you don't post very often.

It may be that we're disagreeing about a semantics issue here. You use the word "promote" when you talk about the EL. I'm saying that it is not RTE's job to "promote" anything. They may advertsie the fact that they are showing certain games etc, to generate an audience for those games, but that's not promoting the league as a whole. It may be we're just disagreeing over our choice of words.

I do believe that football are a series of individual events. Yes, they are obviously interlinked - as indeed are most things in life. But you can watch a single football match in an entire season without needing to have any knowledge of who the players are, how the teams are doing in the league at the moment etc etc, without its entertainment value diminishing. Sure - it helps to know if it's a top of table or mid-table mediocrity clash, and who the key players are, but you can still understand what happens regardless. There's no character or plot development across inter-linked episodes, you don't need to know who certain people are to get the jokes/scenarios, and you certainly won't fail to understand the game because you missed a game 2 weeks before. You could watch any individual football match anywhere in the world and not be at a disadvantage. On the other hand, try watching only a single episode of, for example, Six Feet Under, and see how free standing that is. Even something like Friends - if you only watched one episode in your life, you wouldn't pick-up lots of things within it that are interlinked - e.g. why dioes everyone laugh when Joey says "How you doin'", why is there that weird skinny dog scuplture, and why do they seem to have lived in each other's flats ? Of course football matches are interlinked, but not to the point that just because you're showing Cork v Shels you should give a feck about Waterford v Longford the same weekend.

If you're going to respond in a snide way then please don't bother..

[A face]

.......

Anyway ... back to my point ... should RTE give up the licence fee that is allocated for sport if they are going to spend it on foregin leagues, Wimbeldon and F1 where there are no Irish teams ??

[ColinR]

Anyway ... back to my point ... should RTE give up the licence fee that is allocated for sport if they are going to spend it on foregin leagues, Wimbeldon and F1 where there are no Irish teams ??

no, not if that is what irish tv viewers want to watch

[dcfcsteve]

Anyway ... back to my point ... should RTE give up the licence fee that is allocated for sport if they are going to spend it on foregin leagues, Wimbeldon and F1 where there are no Irish teams ??

No - because they are showing what the vast majority of the viewing public consistently expresses a desire to watch....

I would love to see them have it taken from them, but this isn't North Korea. You can't force government-snactioned programming onto TV channels, in contraversion to public demand. It's completely undemocratic, and would be financial suicide for RTE.

These are not workable solutions to the problem of limited media exposure for our league !!

[A face]

no, not if that is what irish tv viewers want to watch

Well why cant other stations who provide the exact same service have some of it then ??

Given you point .... If RTE do not fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster .... then why should the get the licence fee for claiming to do exactly that ??

They are getting paid to provide a specifc service, and then dont provide it .... would you argee that it doesn't add up ??

[A face]

I would love to see them have it taken from them, but this isn't North Korea. You can't force government-snactioned programming onto TV channels, in contraversion to public demand. It's completely undemocratic, and would be financial suicide for RTE.


What if the programming we see on RTE is forced on the public ??
What if the programming that is actually now being shown, is not actually what the public want .... the Public Charter was meant to resolve that ..... but did any of us ever see it not to mind contribute to it ??

I still contest that it is actually what the public want to see given the viewing figures the RTE actually publish themselves.

Do the figures lie ??

[bigmac]

Lads,, the comment made on the tv wasn't that bad, at least he mentioned the EL at all, he could have chosen to ignore it. I agree that he could have phrased it better, the one about not lookingout of his depth was a good suggestion.
Unfortunately Daryl didn't look too bad going forward but he was at fault for Henry's goal where he never tracked back with Lauren down the touchline, allowing him plenty of time to get his cross in.

[A face]

Lads,, the comment made on the tv wasn't that bad, at least he mentioned the EL at all, he could have chosen to ignore it. I agree that he could have phrased it better, the one about not lookingout of his depth was a good suggestion.
Unfortunately Daryl didn't look too bad going forward but he was at fault for Henry's goal where he never tracked back with Lauren down the touchline, allowing him plenty of time to get his cross in.

That was a few pages back bigmac .... the debate is different now !!

[dcfcsteve]

What if the programming we see on RTE is forced on the public ??
What if the programming that is actually now being shown, is not actually what the public want .... the Public Charter was meant to resolve that ..... but did any of us ever see it not to mind contribute to it ??

I still contest that it is actually what the public want to see given the viewing figures the RTE actually publish themselves.

Do the figures lie ??

RTE will argue that they are fulfilling their obligations to Irish sports. GAA, Six nations rugby, International football matches, horse racing, athletics, Eircom league, Special Olympics, Summer Olympics etc etc - they show all of these. Maybe not as much as we'd like, but they could certainly mount a robust defence to any allegation that they don't fulfill their responsibilities towards Irish sport.

In what specific ways/shows are they going against viewing figures ? You need to give examples to back up your allegations here A Face. There will undoubtedly be times when they back shows that get disappointing viewing figures - but that's part and parcel of TV. You don't gete everything right every time. Are you suggesting that they are deliberately not seeking to optimise their viewing figures within their budget on an ongoing basis ?

[bigmac]

That was a few pages back bigmac .... the debate is different now !!
A point on that so.
Public broadcasting means broadcasting things that aren't commercially viable, that's why we pay a licence fee. Things like the RTE orchestra, Lyricfm, some services as gaeilge etc. I don't mind paying my licence fee for things like that, but I object to paying a licence fee so that RTE can outbid TV3 for champions league or english football.
The whole point of having a national broadcaster is similar to Arts councils, state funded theatre, opera etc. none of these things would be available if they were forced to subsist on their own. In that event, RTE are not obliged to show just what the majority of people want, they are also obliged to show programmes that are in the public interest. They are getting paid to provide a service, but at the same time the public service is indistinguishable from their commercial operations, and this is where the real problem lies.

[A face]

Are you suggesting that they are deliberately not seeking to optimise their viewing figures within their budget on an ongoing basis ?

Not me at all .... Some pencil pusher in Europe, saying RTE are reneging on their responsibility as a National Broadcaster .... its not like it has gone unnoticed.

The viewing figures, they only provide figures for a week so i cant get them, i only have noticed it when it actually happens ... its threads on here aswell, comparing premiershi* games figures to in the same week an eL game is on, sometimes these were big game in both leagues and eL game has won on figures.

Lads ... help me out here, there have big alot of dicussions on this over the last few years, here and on Johnny Wards. I'm no stato but i remember what i have seen.

All that is including the fact that RTE dont 'promote' or 'highlight' that fact that they are actually showing the eL game yet flood the station with the fact the English game is going ahead. That is a clear advantage .... why ?? Why would RTE bother advertising the English game if it didn't actually mater or have an effect ??

RTE do actually give a robust defence Steve ... they fight it tooth and nail !!

Still have to say though that if eL was give even 50% of the resources the English league gets we'd be alot better off (I am NOT saying devote more time resources, just even up the balance of the existing resources)

[dcfcsteve]

A point on that so.
Public broadcasting means broadcasting things that aren't commercially viable, that's why we pay a licence fee. Things like the RTE orchestra, Lyricfm, some services as gaeilge etc. I don't mind paying my licence fee for things like that, but I object to paying a licence fee so that RTE can outbid TV3 for champions league or english football.
The whole point of having a national broadcaster is similar to Arts councils, state funded theatre, opera etc. none of these things would be available if they were forced to subsist on their own. In that event, RTE are not obliged to show just what the majority of people want, they are also obliged to show programmes that are in the public interest. They are getting paid to provide a service, but at the same time the public service is indistinguishable from their commercial operations, and this is where the real problem lies.

If RTE was solely funded from the public purse - like the BBC - then you'd be spot on.

However - RTE is a weird b@stardised-mix of public and private. This therefore makes their funding and their responsibilities a bit wooly.

They can argue that the public money goes towards commercially-unviable minority things like classical music, Irish-language programming etc etc. And then they can also argue that they are using their advertising revenue to secure the commercially-viable stuff that they need to attract viewers and survive as a channel. So no crime there.

Their public service is indistinguishable from their commercial operations because that is exactly how RTE is structured - a public-private mix.

No-one has yet come-up with an arguement against RTE that the channel coudln't easily defend itself against. They have enough enemies in the world already - do you really think that if they were so obviously failing in their obligations that they wouldn't have been picked-up on this already ?

To tackle our lack of media exposure, the energies of Irish football fans should be directed at the FAI. Nothing else will deliver any change in the situation in the short-to-medium term.

[A face]

A point on that so.
Public broadcasting means broadcasting things that aren't commercially viable, that's why we pay a licence fee. Things like the RTE orchestra, Lyricfm, some services as gaeilge etc. I don't mind paying my licence fee for things like that, but I object to paying a licence fee so that RTE can outbid TV3 for champions league or english football.
The whole point of having a national broadcaster is similar to Arts councils, state funded theatre, opera etc. none of these things would be available if they were forced to subsist on their own. In that event, RTE are not obliged to show just what the majority of people want, they are also obliged to show programmes that are in the public interest. They are getting paid to provide a service, but at the same time the public service is indistinguishable from their commercial operations, and this is where the real problem lies.

bigmac, i agree totally ... but i dont know if you are agreeing with me or not .... but that argument supports exactly what i am saying.

I dont mind if RTE take a licence fee, as long as the fulfill the role of a National Broadcaster, and you are right .... outbidding TV3 for CL is mad ... given that when FAI went to Sky with a TV deal because RTE actually lowered their bid for Irish football, there was blue murder. They made a bid lower than the existing one at the time ??? .... lads, that is not supporting Irish interests. I dont mind the fact they advertise even though they are a national broadcaster but when they take the licence fee .... they basically have a contract with the punter to be a National Broadcaster .... there is no excuse for not doing so !!

[dcfcsteve]

The viewing figures, they only provide figures for a week so i cant get them, i only have noticed it when it actually happens ... its threads on here aswell, comparing premiershi* games figures to in the same week an eL game is on, sometimes these were big game in both leagues and eL game has won on figures.

Lads ... help me out here, there have big alot of dicussions on this over the last few years, here and on Johnny Wards. I'm no stato but i remember what i have seen.

I have been keeping a spreadsheet of Live Irish football games on TV over the last 2 seasons (don't ask..... :) ). The game, the viewing figures, and the ranking.

It's not complete - particularly for recent games - but it's the best stats I have to-hand.

A quick glance on there shows that the only live domestic game to have out-performed a live English/foreign game was the Longford v Waterford FAI Final last October, that easily out-ranked an Arsenal v man U game on at the same time. (186,000 v 134,000). But it took the blue-riband of Irish sport to beat an exciting but none-the-less rather early in the season game between 2 teams who were expected to not win the English Premiership.

I'll forward you the spreadsheet if you want (would be good to get some other people involved in keeping it up-to-date/complete). Perhaps we could have it as a sticky on the site along with attendances etc ?

Anyways - my point is this. If were going to vent about the lack of media coverage for our league, whi is that venting best directed at ? I say the FAI, as that is the most approriate receptacle, and the one most likely to deliver results.

[A face]

Anyways - my point is this. If were going to vent about the lack of media coverage for our league, whi is that venting best directed at ? I say the FAI, as that is the most approriate receptacle, and the one most likely to deliver results.

Agreed !!

I wouldn't mind see that Steve ... ifgrounds@o2.ie

I actually started and stopped almost immediately something similar. Basically all the European countrys with a population of 25,000,000 or less, the amount of channels (that show domestic sport), the amount of hours for sport per week, against the hours of football, how much of that football was domestic, if there was a licence fee, how much was it, etc. ..... i was at it for about a month but was going from pillar to post, being asked what the figures were for, what would happen as a result, etc. ... along with the language barrier.

When i have more time, i might take that up again !!

[dav_sfc]

I can’t believe your still going with your skewed analogy. By the way, I watched and indeed laughed at many Friends episodes and I still don’t know why they have a skinny greyhound thing, but I still enjoyed the shows! Most TV programs are designed so that people don’t need to be watching the thing since it started, especially shows like coronation street and eastenders which are on 40 years or so! Also, I remember standing in the new stand in tolka park when the Brigiod dearg decided to change the lyrics in one of the songs to “Barry Ryan is flying high…” during a Dublin city match, I nearly ****ed myself laughing. Then there is all the booing of Hawkins, Crowe and Ryan at Shels matches. You’d get all this if you were not a follower of the league, right? Similarly Friends lost non of its humour just because I didn’t know about some skinny dog! I’m sure you could watch one episode of any series and still get enough enjoyment out of it to maybe watch it again. So that’s why I’m not continuing this pointless debate about the league being a series or not! We could be here for the rest of next season debating whether they are the same or not. My opinion is they are more similar than not and you skewed analogy is…well…skewed. I don’t need a retort to this honestly I wont read it.

This I will though…..
I was not suggesting that if RTE show Shels play cork then RTE should promote Waterford Vs Longford on the same night! I’m saying that if you show EL matches then it’s in the interest of RTE to promote the LEAGUE in general! I don’t think our commentator friend did this in any way at all! This is what I think is the problem!
The EL is making good progress and achieving a bit more every year, especially in Europe and with the support for football in general in this country its got to have great potential too! So that’s why I ask, why couldn’t the stupid commentator say something a little but more positive since RTE do show the EL on its station!

Since the real debate now is are the obliged to show more EL as our national broadcaster then I can only say this. They do fulfill their self appointed obligations in that paper I quoted (which isn’t hard by they way since it written such a way that they can do what they want!), I don’t know how much they are obliged to show as according to higher laws of licensing and whatever. I guess to fulfill these obligations further they could cut EL time and show more fishing and other similar bull**** (sorry fishing fans) but that’s not going to happen, even if Jack Charlton himself wanted to go back into TV. But we’ll have no control over this as someone pointed out already that RTE is like some mongrel ******* station.