Driving

[Gareth]

Hi.

I drove from Sligo to Dublin on the weekend and I guess it just annoyed me so much I need to comment on this. The day itself was a wet windy day with very slippery roads. The speed limit for the majority of the trip was between 50km to 100km. Now I don't know about you guys but I learned from a young age about acceleration and deceleration and the likes. I possibly am taking a huge assumation that people driving are intelligent. When you drive in a car and you are up the arse of another car and your going 100km per hour and the car in front of you brakes, I don't care how good you are at driving, you are probably going to plough into the back of the car. Now with that logic, surely people would stay back a little, but no they somehow think they are exempt from the laws of physics.

Also, solid white lines were painted on the road because after some assessment, that part of the road was adjudged to be dangerous to overtake. So driving at 150km to overtake on a solid white line makes you nothing more than a total spanner with a total disregard for oncoming traffic and their lives. Now I am more than happy for the road lunatics to plough into trees and the likes but when they put others in danger they need to cop on!!

Are people thick? I saw two very bad crashes on the road on the way home and yet after passing them by people still drove like they are at Silverstone. At one point 4 cars were in the process of passing one car out and each other??? On the wrong side of the road.

If your one of these people that drive like their lifes depended on getting soemwhere 5 minutes faster for the sake of other peoples lifes, can you explain to me what is going thru your minds cos I am curious to see if you exhibit any form of intelligence!!!

[finlma]

There are some terrible drivers on the road in Ireland. A car overtook me during the weekend in a built up area where the limit was 50k. He was doing at least 100k. Its no suprise that there are so many accidents on our roads.

[carrickharp]

I drive up to Donegal almost every weekend and if anything the standard of driving is getting worse, drive a lot in Dublin also during the week and the amount of drivers who jump red light is frightening same goes for not using indicators:mad:

[Gareth]

Anytime I am talking to people they all agree with me. So my question is who are all the crazy speed loving drivers? Are they all from some isolated village that I never went to. Someone on here must drive like the fires of hell are following them, so if you are come on and explain why you do? Please. Sign up with a different name if your worried about being slated!! But just explain your thoughts as you overtake three cars deep on a bend?

[dahamsta]

I drive like the fires of hell are following me. But I don't tailgate, I don't overtake on solid whites, I don't double-overtake (unless the moron in front pulls out without indicating), and I don't overtake on bends -- although I will overtake a stream of 2, 5 or 10 cars if the opportunity presents itself, because my car is capable of that (some people seem to think this is wrong, because they don't understand cars).

I don't have a problem with speed, and I think - I know, because I've seen statistics that prove it - that the "speed kills" campaign is an outright lie.

Speed doesn't kill, bad driving does.

[RonnieB]

Indicators and using lights in poor conditions two things the irish driver seem terrified of.

[Gareth]

Ok dahamsta, overtaking 5 cars at once, how much road would you be happy with being visible on the opposite side to overtake that many cars? My experience of overtaking like that results in hasty drivers suddenly looking to squeeze infront of cars that are driving along happily due to an oncoming car, causing them to brake unreasonably.

Why do you drive so fast? In Ireland you will gain very little time advantage. Speed kills, because if you crash at 20 miles an hour, your more likely to walk away than a crash at 95mph. Everyone is a good driver until you find yourself part of a tree bark. You can't account for others on the roads and its not about how good you are, its how safely you drive, not how well you handle a corner at 70mph in the wet!! There is overtaking and then there is overtaking. Ten cars at once is daft. Cos you'd need a seriously long clear road to even consider being safe. The accidents I seen on the road this weekend where due to speed.

[finlma]

I love when someone overtakes you and you arrive at a set of traffic lights in the next town and there they are right in front of you - wow that saved you half a second.

If you think we have it tough driving in Ireland have a look at the Magic Roundabout in Swindon (http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm). Thats somewhere I never want to drive

[tiktok]

-- although I will overtake a stream of 2, 5 or 10 cars if the opportunity presents itself, because my car is capable of that (some people seem to think this is wrong, because they don't understand cars).

As my dad used to say, the most important nut in a car is the nut holding the steering wheel.

You'll overtake a line of 10 cars and you'll double overtake if a 'moron' pulls out somewhere along the line, because your car is capable of that? I can think of only one stretch of road in the country where you might have the visibility required to overtake 10 cars wile still staying within the speed limit (though you did say that Speeding doesn't kill so maybe your car is 'capable' of travelling far in excess of the speed limit, which is what you mean). What if one of those bad drivers you claim about is in that line of cars and suddenly veers in front of you ffs?

Hope you don't have a blow-out or hit a patch of oil while you're proving 'speed doesn't kill', and if you do, I hope it's a tree you hit and not me.

Ireland is full of bad drivers, occasionally I'm one of them, most of it is down to overconfidence in what they believe themselves or their car capable of, a mate of mine had a head on crash because he though his Polo could overtake a truck while going uphill, he was wrong.

[Gareth]

Well said Tiktok, I am far to angry to form a sensible argument :). Overconfidence is pretty much it. Sure I couldn't be in a crash, I am a super driver.

I'm a fast runner, but I don't test the fact by running across a busy road every day. (some people wish I did thou :)).

[finlma]

On another note about traffic accidents - I came within a foot of hitting a very large deer on Saturday evening. I was driving from Limerick to Galway in poor visibility after the Munster game when I saw a large deer appear in front of me. He was strolling across the road. I was doing 100km but luckily there was no oncoming traffic so I could swerve. It was a very close shave though. There are no warning signs in the area about deer.

[dahamsta]

Ok dahamsta, overtaking 5 cars at once, how much road would you be happy with being visible on the opposite side to overtake that many cars?Are you seriously asking me that question? I don't know any good driver that could, so I can only assume you're just making a point. If you're not, please describe the road conditions, the weather, the traffic, etc, etc.


My experience of overtaking like that results in hasty drivers suddenly looking to squeeze infront of cars that are driving along happily due to an oncoming car, causing them to brake unreasonably.You've experienced bad drivers that don't assess the situation before overtaking, in particular whether or not there's room to move in if it becomes necessary. I'm experiencing categorisation based on zero factual evidence.


Why do you drive so fast?I don't drive "so fast", I drive at a speed I feel safe with, which happens to be faster than most people around me. Sometimes I sit with the crowd, sometimes I don't.


Speed kills, because if you crash at 20 miles an hour, your more likely to walk away than a crash at 95mph.First of all, I don't drive at 95mph. The fastest I'll cruise at, on a posted-70 dual carriageway, is 80. I may pop above that occasionally, but rarely above 85. Secondly, by that logic we should all drive at 20mph all the time, or perhaps even walk. Everything has a risk, everybody performs risk management.


You can't account for others on the roadsYes, yes I can. I can't do it all the time, but in general I believe I'm more observant and better able to deal with issues that might crop up than a large majority of drivers. You can view that as cocky if you wish, but that's not the case.


and its not about how good you are, its how safely you driveDid I say I didn't drive safe?


not how well you handle a corner at 70mph in the wetFirst of all, that's another categorisation that's impossible to make, and shouldn't be made: Some corners can be taken easily at 70 in the wet, some corners can't. Secondly, why are you putting words in my mouth?


There is overtaking and then there is overtaking. Ten cars at once is daft.Is it daft if there's a stream of ten cars travelling at 50mph on stretch of road that's straight for ten miles? No, it isn't, and categorising that like is, in fact, daft.

adam

[tiktok]

I don't drive "so fast", I drive at a speed I feel safe with

I drive like the fires of hell are following me.

U-Turn?


Is it daft if there's a stream of ten cars travelling at 50mph on stretch of road that's straight for ten miles? No, it isn't, and categorising that like is, in fact, daft.

Come on adam, that's not the situation you were referring to though is it? If it was you wouldn't have felt the need to refer to your car being 'capable' of accelerating and overtaking 10 cars in a row.

A Honda 50 could manage the above.

[Gareth]

My experience of bad driving and people speeding tends to come hand in hand Adam. That is just from my experience. I can't talk for you and your skills at driving, so if I am categorizing you then I apologise, but from your posts, it does appear you are overconfident when it comes to your skill on the roads. Just my opinion mind. I think based on average salloon car lengths and at speeds of 50km and you going 70km you will be on the wrong side of the road for approx .2km?

[dahamsta]

U-Turn?No. Gareth used that phrase, I simply referred to it. It was supposed to be just a teensy bit funny. It seems I was wasting my time.


Come on adam, that's not the situation you were referring to though is it?I wasn't referring to any situation in the original post, I'd suggest you read it again. In the post you quoted, I was giving an extreme example to demonstrate how silly it is to categorise.

For the record, I didn't reply to your main post because of the level of condescension in it; in fact I didn't read most of it for that reason. If you want me to reply, tone it down.


if I am categorizing you then I apologise, but from your posts, it does appear you are overconfident when it comes to your skill on the roadsYou were categorising, and your apology was accepted, and then you did it again. You don't know anything about my driving Gareth, and with all due respect you're making /really/ bad judgements based on my comments. Some of them are genuinely worrying coming from someone that's complaining about bad driving.


Just my opinion mind. I think based on average salloon car lengths and at speeds of 50km and you going 70km you will be on the wrong side of the road for approx .2km?I don't do kms, but if you're referencing my comment about overtaking 10 cars, as I mentioned, I was simply making a point. Frankly, the way both of you have gripped onto this as if I do it 8 times a day or something, is just plain silly.

You seem very emotional about this, and I can understand that this may be because you're angry about your experiences this weekend. But categorising like that is just as bad imho.

adam

[Gareth]

I did not categorize again, I merely took a number of points you made about speed and your driving and came to an initial opinion that you could be displaying a certain level of overconfidence about your skills on the road keeping you safe! That is not categorization.

We held onto the point about overtaking 10 cars because its a fairly relevant point when assessing your attitude to driving on the roads. I am emotional about this. I feel that aggresive driving reduces your time for reaction and increases the likelihood of mistakes being more serious. Now just for a second forget about your driving. You have said bad driving is the cause of many accidents. I agree. But unfortunately alot of bad drivers appear to drive excessingly aggressively too. Just look at how many car accidents with fatalities are a result of a single car and a wall or tree? My point initially is why not just adhere to speed limits and drive sensibly rather than driving like a racing driver? Surely that 15 minutes earlier you arrive is not worth the risks attached? Can you even remotely see my point?

[tiktok]

For the record, I didn't reply to your main post because of the level of condescension in it; in fact I didn't read most of it for that reason. If you want me to reply, tone it down.

I wasn't condescending in my original post, at worst I was alarmed at what I believe to be an irresponsible attitude to driving, one I'd associate with the stereotypical boy-racer rather than what little I know of you.

While I'm obviously in no position to judge on how good a driver you are, the fact remains that when you're travelling at higher speed your time to react to an incident/error (your own or another driver's) is diminished, and if you're overtaking 10 cars in a row the chances of another driver's actions affecting yours are greater.

Quite obviously if you decide to overtake ten cars in a row, the chance that the third car in that row will also seize the opportunity to overtake is greater, if their car is not capable of accelerating at the same rate that yours is, you could easily end up in a dangerous position, reagardless of how you've assessed the situation before putting your hand on the indicator.

[SÓC]

Why cant Irish people use roundabouts. They are very simple inventions and most of them now even have the lane which you're ment to be in written on the road yet people still cant use them. Drives me mad

[Macy]

Why cant Irish people use roundabouts. They are very simple inventions and most of them now even have the lane which you're ment to be in written on the road yet people still cant use them. Drives me mad
Or how to bloody indicate at them. Fooking indicating right when they're going straight on...

On overtaking... You can't automatically say overtaking several cars at once is bad. Depends on relative speeds, road conditions, view etc. I'd overtake several cars at once if I could see far enough and that the cars second and third in the line had had opportunities to overtake and hadn't.

imo many of the stupid moves carried out are due to frustration - due to people driving below the posted speed limit and refusing to pull in, and shít scared drivers who won't overtake no matter what. If people want to drive faster than you, let them overtake you. It's pure bloody mindness that people don't, regardless of the speed their doing. And damn right dangerous when you get the wánkers that speed up as you're overtaking them. I never get the logic I'd rather have someone miles ahead of me than tail gating me. Let them go, much less stressful, much more safe for everyone on the road.

This weeks top 5 driving annoyances...
1) People who don't put their lights on in dull and/or wet conditions. It's for others to see you, not necessarily for you to see where you're going.
2) People who can't use roundabouts - wrong lane, wrong indication, no indication
3) Overtaking Lane hoggers. It's an overtaking lane, not a fast lane. If the inside lane is free use it.
4) Slow vehicles that won't pull over to let the stream of cars behind them pass. All kinds of vehicles, but particularly Dumper Trucks going up hill and numpties out of Dublin for their sunday spin
5) SUV lights - they should be set lower, as because of the light differential they're like head lights to people driving normal cars as opposed to 4 litre penis extensions

:D

[SÓC]

2) People who can't use roundabouts - wrong lane, wrong indication, no indication
5) SUV lights - they should be set lower, as because of the light differential they're like head lights to people driving normal cars as opposed to 4 litre penis extensions
3) Overtaking Lane hoggers. It's an overtaking lane, not a fast lane. If the inside lane is free use it.


Those 3 in that order really make my blood boil.

People texting while driving is another...

[finlma]

There was an accident in Galway a few years ago cause some old lad who'd never seen a roundabout in his life came into the city. After missing his exit he decided to stop the car and reverse - suprisingly a car drove into the back of him.
People over the age of 65 should have to re-sit an exam every couple of years. A lot of old people are liabilites on the road.

[pete]

I drive like the fires of hell are following me. But I don't tailgate, I don't overtake on solid whites, I don't double-overtake (unless the moron in front pulls out without indicating), and I don't overtake on bends -- although I will overtake a stream of 2, 5 or 10 cars if the opportunity presents itself, because my car is capable of that (some people seem to think this is wrong, because they don't understand cars).

I don't have a problem with speed, and I think - I know, because I've seen statistics that prove it - that the "speed kills" campaign is an outright lie.

Speed doesn't kill, bad driving does.

For the most part i agree with that.

I wouldn't overtake 10 cars but see no problem with 3 or 4 on straight road. I drove Cork-Dublin yesterday & averaged 70 on main road (more like 65mph as speedometers as set with buffer) & 80mph on motorway. I saw 1 speed "trap" on Cashel Bypass.

In my experience road markings are shocking in this country. I've seen straight roads with no side roads with straight white line & then vroken white line on corners.

Inappropriate speed kills. Just because sign says 100kph does not mean road is suitable for that speed.

Why do irish side roads not have road markings? Why are only the last 50metres at end of road marked???

:confused:

[drinkfeckarse]

There are bad drivers everywhere but having driven in Scotland, England and back home, may I categorise;) (hopefully without offending anyone) that Irish drivers are the worst of the lot of them IMHO and seem to take stupidity to new levels everytime I'm home.

[dahamsta]

I did not categorize again, I merely took a number of points you made about speed and your driving and came to an initial opinion that you could be displaying a certain level of overconfidence about your skills on the road keeping you safe! That is not categorization.I disagree, I think you're categorising me as a bad driver based on a poor understanding of my post. However maybe the following has a bearing...


We held onto the point about overtaking 10 cars because its a fairly relevant point when assessing your attitude to driving on the roads. I am emotional about this.Pete's post made it clear to me that we may be at cross-purposes on this particular point, and on another too; athough again, I don't believe it was my writing that was at fault, I believe it was your reading and rushing to respond with righteous indignation. Sorry to be blunt Gareth, but I genuinely think you're letting your anger rule here.

First of all, I doubt I've ever overtaken 10 cars in one full run; although I'd guess I may have overtaken close to that number, in a convoy, on a very straight road, in the dry, with no traffic coming in the opposite direction. I have, however, overtaken 10 - or more - cars in several spurts. To me, this is one overtaking maneuver, and it's what I would expect someone to understand I was suggesting.

On the subject of double-overtaking, I would never, ever intentionally double-overtake, and I think I was pretty clear that it has only happened to me when someone pulls out into my driving line while I'm in the process of overtaking. I find myself having to flash before overtaking increasingly these days specifically because of this issue; I never had to do that before.

This is not related to the length of the overtaking maneuver, it happens in all sorts of situations, and it's 100% the fault of the other person for very simply not checking their mirrors before pulling out. Bad driving. Extremely bad driving.


My point initially is why not just adhere to speed limits and drive sensiblyI do drive sensibly, more sensibly than most. And you're propogating a state-sponsored myth by suggesting that speeding isn't driving sensibly. I can't point to it directly but Google should find the recent study in the UK that specifically found that speeding is not the cause of the majority of accidents over there; as their Government, and ours, have lied about.


rather than driving like a racing driver?If you can't see that you're categorising now, it's not worth replying to me, and please don't. A racing driver? Please.


Surely that 15 minutes earlier you arrive is not worth the risks attached?Time has nothing to do with. I drive at the speed I feel comfortable with.

adam

[sligoman]

People over the age of 65 should have to re-sit an exam every couple of years. A lot of old people are liabilites on the road.I have always said that. Even from 60 up would be good. I've seen people with walking sticks that can barely move getting in behind the wheel of a car. Then, when they make a mistake driving they just look at you as if they haven't noticed anything. It's disgracful:mad:.

[dahamsta]

Are you sure they don't? I thought they had to, remember the mother talking about it.

[tiktok]

I don't believe it was my writing that was at fault, I believe it was your reading and rushing to respond with righteous indignation.
And I'm the one accused of being condescending?


I will overtake a stream of 2, 5 or 10 cars if the opportunity presents itself, because my car is capable of that.

First of all, I doubt I've ever overtaken 10 cars in one full run; although I'd guess I may have overtaken close to that number, in a convoy, on a very straight road, in the dry, with no traffic coming in the opposite direction. I have, however, overtaken 10 - or more - cars in several spurts. To me, this is one overtaking maneuver, and it's what I would expect someone to understand I was suggesting.

Two completely different points adam, and it is your writing that's at fault.
If you overtake ten cars pulling in after every one (or two) then that is a series of overtaking manoeuvers, you can't expect people to be mindreaders. I'm glad to hear that it was a misunderstanding though, sounds like you might be around a bit longer than I originally thought.

[Gareth]

Adam, frankly your post is far more condescending than anything I have written. But no harm, I respect your right to an opinion, but can you please put up the assumptions we need to make whilst reading them in future? .

[sligoman]

Are you sure they don't? I thought they had to, remember the mother talking about it.Not that I know of, maybe they do. Anyone know any senior citizen drivers they could ask?:o :D

[Gareth]

My mam and dad are 64 and they haven't needed to.

[Gareth]

Plus adam I have no problem with overtaking when you need to within speed limits and safe conditions but I believe it should be done on a car by car basis. Your original point clearly stated 10 cars. After starting that move, you are adding risk by the second. Thats why one car is fine but after 5 or 6 cars the situation is far more risky. Even second on the wrong side of the road is adding to the risk. That was why I was up in arms at you. Its totally different saying 10 cars, one at a time Adam.

[dahamsta]

Adam, frankly your post is far more condescending than anything I have written.It probably was. I tend to put less effort into reasonable conversation when I see silliness like the racing driver bit.


But no harm, I respect your right to an opinion, but can you please put up the assumptions we need to make whilst reading them in future? .I'll certain dumb down my points in future Gareth! (I'm just trolling now. Ignore me.)

To get back to the subject, I don't believe overtaking should strictly be done on a car-by-car basis, if that's what you're suggesting. Road conditions and the like should define what's safe and what's not. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make right from the beginning.

adam

[the 12 th man]

My mam and dad are 64 and they haven't needed to.

Afaik there is no upper age limit but I think you have to prove your eyesight after a certain age to retain your licence.

My Pop is 79 & still driving.

[pete]

I would gladly agree to driving tests every 10 years if it was applied across the board.

Only when the driving laws are aactually applied & roads property constructed can we access the standard of irish driving.

- People driving who never sat a driving test
- People driving on provisionals who have FAILED their test i.e. not good enough to pass minimum standards. Foreigners can never understand that one.
- Proper road markings & signage.
- Crash barriers around poles, trees, walls etc...
- Policing on danerous roads not turkey shoots on motorways.
- Penalty points for things other than speeding (afaik legislation is finished so how many more years will we be waiting to be implemented?)

45 mph in 30mph zone is a lot more dangerous than 90mph on 75mph limit motorway.

BTW government should just hire more driving testers - if current lot don't like it & strike then sack them!

[Gareth]

I'll certain dumb down my points in future Gareth! (I'm just trolling now. Ignore me.)


Rude fvcker :)

[Metrostars]

After being a former speed demon on the roads on Galway when I first learned to drive, I now hate the thought of driving back there whenever I return from the US. Dahamsta is right to a certain extent when he says the slogan Speed Kills is incorrect but Ireland doesnt have the roads to drive fast. The problem is that too many nutcases like when I was young drive crazy on the poor roads in Ireland. It's fine going 70-90mph on a motorway where there's plenty of room but not on a narrow two lane road with lots of bends.

[dahamsta]

I would gladly agree to driving tests every 10 years if it was applied across the board.So would I, but there's no point in even touching that idea until we can get the existing testing system working. They've had how many years to fix it? I think I'd find it hard not to learn lessons in that time, but this government - and every other government - seems to excel in keeping it exactly the same. Exactly the same mess.

It's a perfect example of cross-party, non-partisan... incompetence.


Rude fvcker :)Have we not crossed swords before Gareth? ;)


Dahamsta is right to a certain extent when he says the slogan Speed Kills is incorrect but Ireland doesnt have the roads to drive fast.If we're talking in general, across the board, then yes, that's true. However Irish people do often make the mistake of suggesting or accepting that all Irish roads are bad, when of course they're not. They're not up to European standards and unfortunately we have to jump between the good sections - which is ridiculous - but they're there.

Waterford in particular had wonderful roads a few years back -- it was embarrassing crossing the bridge into or out of Youghal, because the roads in Cork were like badly-baked Polo biscuits in comparison. I'm told they're not so good any more, haven't been down there in a while.


The problem is that too many nutcases like when I was young drive crazy on the poor roads in Ireland.This is the thing though, it's the nutcases at fault, not people that want to drive fast. Sure, they're both breaking the law, but I'll take an attentive speeder over every single one of those idiots that flies around the West anyday. (I'd add that it's not just young 'uns either, whenever I go down that way I nearly get blown out of it, because they won't surrender any of the road. I'm speaking very generally now myself, but it's just an observation.)

adam

[dfx-]

I don't have a problem with speed, and I think - I know, because I've seen statistics that prove it - that the "speed kills" campaign is an outright lie.

Speed doesn't kill, bad driving does.

Q. E. D.:cool:

[Gareth]

Have we not crossed swords before Gareth? ;)
Possibly so, but its so much fun, however now you will probably run me over :)

[dfx-]

This is the thing though, it's the nutcases at fault, not people that want to drive fast. Sure, they're both breaking the law, but I'll take an attentive speeder over every single one of those idiots that flies around the West anyday.

QED the second....:cool:

[dahamsta]

Possibly so, but its so much fun, however now you will probably run me over :)I drive an E34 (http://www.bmwe34.net/) Gareth, I wouldn't even feel the bump. :D

[Gareth]

I drive an E34 (http://www.bmwe34.net/) Gareth, I wouldn't even feel the bump. :D

I'd cover myself in blades and broken glass so you would :) hehe Nice car. I don't drive a BMW. I keep my cars small for environment and economic reasons :) I am a car purests nightmare (I wont even go into my engine size capping suggestion!!! ::D )

[dahamsta]

Heh, you wouldn't like what I'm aiming for next then: an E32 740i (http://www.uwejacobi.de/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_9902/uj2.jpg) or a '69 Roadrunner (http://www.cars-on-line.com/18225.html). My RR'd run a 426 Hemi though, which'd take it up to just short of 7 litres...

adam

[Gareth]

You should just buy a jet and get it over with :) My brother had his fair share of nice cars, but well I am happy to stay in my smaller ones. No point driving a 7 litre engine car to travel to the shops? I bought a bike lately so car usage is even less now. I think we might be a bit opposite to each other :)

[strangeirish]

Out of me way lads, coming through........Brand new silver pump and wheel reflectors to boot!!!!

[dahamsta]

No point driving a 7 litre engine car to travel to the shops?Nope. No point, no logic, just the rumble of a seven litre V8. I don't jump out of planes though, or smoke pot, or drink myself stupid every night. We all have our hobbies...

Plus of course the savings on tax and insurance would probably just about cover the cost of petrol and tyres. :)

adam

[sligoman]

Out of me way lads, coming through........Brand new silver pump and wheel reflectors to boot!!!!Hehe, classy!:D

[Gareth]

Adam, its good you have a hobby, it'll keep you off the streets, no wait.....:)

Sligoman, nothing like a quality bike :)

[sligoman]

Sligoman, nothing like a quality bike :)Scooters are better though. Hoping to get one soon;)

EDIT: This (http://cgi.ebay.ie/Scooter-Popper-OFF-Road-Scrambler-Crosser-Trial-Bike_W0QQitemZ8011243760QQcategoryZ25640QQtcZphoto QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting) type now, not this (http://cgi.ebay.ie/BRAND-NEW-24v-ELECTRIC-SCOOTER-WITH-TWIST-N-GO-THROTTLE_W0QQitemZ7193729214QQcategoryZ64676QQtcZp hotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting):o :D

[Gareth]

Sound pollution Sligoman, and surely Sligo would be easier navigated on a bike :)