Attendance discussion

[CollegeTillIDie]

If I recall correctly a crowd of 363 was posted as being the attendance at the Waterford United game. An average of around 683 for the season. That is DOWN on our relegation season of 2003 and that proves summer soccer has failed at UCD.

[Poor Student]

If I recall correctly a crowd of 363 was posted as being the attendance at the Waterford United game. An average of around 683 for the season. That is DOWN on our relegation season of 2003 and that proves summer soccer has failed at UCD.

No it doesn't! It's barely down. Fact of the matter is, we draw our biggest crowds from other Dublin teams and they are all doing badly by their respective standards therefore bringing less fans. Also a game against a Waterford in desperate trouble on a Monday night is going to dent the average too. Our season has descended into a relatively meaningless affair with niether relegation or Europe possible. That's probably going to dent the home support a bit too. I think we'd be getting the same crowds in summer or winter soccer.

[CollegeTillIDie]

No it doesn't! It's barely down. Fact of the matter is, we draw our biggest crowds from other Dublin teams and they are all doing badly by their respective standards therefore bringing less fans. Also a game against a Waterford in desperate trouble on a Monday night is going to dent the average too. Our season has descended into a relatively meaningless affair with niether relegation or Europe possible. That's probably going to dent the home support a bit too. I think we'd be getting the same crowds in summer or winter soccer.

Poor Student

We were bottom the entire 2003 season.. how can you not see that we have a problem?

[pineapple stu]

Afraid Poor Student's correct...

1) Those 2003 attendances were overstated. Everyone was down by about 20% the next season.
2) The crowds for the country games are up. You know as well as I do that we've had crowds under 200 for some games in the past. Now 363 on a Monday evening in a poorly-publicised game is bad?
3) The crowds for the Dublin derbies are down, primarily because Bohs, Pat's and Rovers in particular (Shels to a lesser extent) are struggling this year.
4) We have two more home games to come - both Dublin derbies
5) The 2003 season saw us play everyone twice at home. That equated to 18 home games, eight of which were Dublin derbies. Now we have 16 home games, six of which are Dublin derbies.

A simple look around our home and local away games shows that support is growing. It's still very small, but it's growing nonetheless.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Pineapple student

So the 2003 crowds were overstated.
But if that is the case your point 3) makes my case for me.
If Dublin Derbies attendances are lower because the clubs are bringing fewer travelling supporters, our averages have to be down because we play so many of those games at home each season in the Premier.
Our own core support may well be on a slight increase, but the overall attendances given falling away supporters attending could still be down.

Surely average crowds would not be affected as much by the number of games per se as the actual number of punters attending them?

[pineapple stu]

Our own core support may well be on a slight increase, but the overall attendances given falling away supporters attending could still be down.
I reckon this is possible, but then there's not a lot we can do about the away support (outside of not increasing ticket prices 50%). It's the home support we have to concentrate on. If our home support is up, you can't really conclude that summer soccer has failed for UCD.


Surely average crowds would not be affected as much by the number of games per se as the actual number of punters attending them?
The point is that we've a much lower proportion of Dublin derbies this yaer compared to 2003. There's usually a big difference between our crowds for those games and for the other games.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I reckon this is possible, but then there's not a lot we can do about the away support (outside of not increasing ticket prices 50%). It's the home support we have to concentrate on. If our home support is up, you can't really conclude that summer soccer has failed for UCD.

Given that home teams keep 100% of gate receipts I think we can
Cause at the end of the day the bottom line figure is reduced!


IThe point is that we've a much lower proportion of Dublin derbies this yaer compared to 2003. There's usually a big difference between our crowds for those games and for the other games.

We have only 2 fewer home games this season over 2003 and have been by and large a bit more successful this season, with our League Cup run and reaching the last eight of the FAI Cup !

[pineapple stu]

Given that home teams keep 100% of gate receipts I think we can. Cause at the end of the day the bottom line figure is reduced!
You can look at it two ways, I suppose. There's that way, and there's looking to improve the UCD support. A team's average crowd doesn't indicate its support. I'd be happy with our crowds this season - even though they may be down a bit - because there are a fair few more UCD jerseys/scarves in the ground now. I don't really see how you can use this to imply that summer soccer has failed us. If anything has failed us (from a gate receipts point of view), it's the big 4 Dublin clubs all being on a bit of a slide.


We have only 2 fewer home games this season over 2003 and have been by and large a bit more successful this season, with our League Cup run and reaching the last eight of the FAI Cup !
Cup games aren't included. If we have a smaller percentage of Dublin home games - 38% compared to 44% - then our attendance figure is going to drop.

[CollegeTillIDie]

You can look at it two ways, I suppose. There's that way, and there's looking to improve the UCD support. A team's average crowd doesn't indicate its support. I'd be happy with our crowds this season - even though they may be down a bit - because there are a fair few more UCD jerseys/scarves in the ground now. .

That's partly because the shop is kept open during the game more often than was the case before.....



I don't really see how you can use this to imply that summer soccer has failed us. If anything has failed us (from a gate receipts point of view), it's the big 4 Dublin clubs all being on a bit of a slide..

Summer soccer has failed all the Dublin clubs in fact it has failed everyone this season bar Cork City and Derry City because all clubs bar those two seem to have experienced a drop in support.


Cup games aren't included. If we have a smaller percentage of Dublin home games - 38% compared to 44% - then our attendance figure is going to drop..

Well without wishing to put a damper on things... no Dublin clubs won the League of Ireland championship between 1967 and 1974 and the crowds plummeted not just in Dublin but in the League as a whole. There were a number of other factors at play here too such as UTV and HTV being widely available showing the Big Match highlights show on Sunday afternoons etc, but the lack of success experienced by Dublin Clubs was also a factor.

[Poor Student]

Summer soccer has failed all the Dublin clubs in fact it has failed everyone this season bar Cork City and Derry City because all clubs bar those two seem to have experienced a drop in support.



C'mon CTID, isn't there an obvious reason for that? Who occupies the top two spots and are the only two teams who can win the title? Cork and Derry! Shels are doing far worse than expected this season and are not the storngest supported club. Bohs are doing awful except for a flourishing period in the middle of the season. Add pack Rovers points and they are doing average in what has been a bleak season for them with the deduction. Pats are doing awful and getting worse as the season goes by. Apart from Shels this is the 2nd successive disappointing season for these clubs.

I'd consider us more likely to be drawing crowds if we had a few less points actually. Following being knocked out of both cups our season has petered out into meaningless mid table mediocrety. Also consider how strongly we finished in our last season in the premier. We've had not one sustained period of exciting form in the league this season. I'd venture to say summer soccer has had next to no negative effect on our crowds.

[Partizan]

Drumcondra won the League for the last time in 1965 and it wasnt for another 10 years that another Dublin club won the League, Bohs in '75.

But its true with what you said, the crowds did begin to plummet during this period but only from the mid 70's onwards.

[CollegeTillIDie]

C'mon CTID, isn't there an obvious reason for that? Who occupies the top two spots and are the only two teams who can win the title? Cork and Derry! Shels are doing far worse than expected this season and are not the storngest supported club. Bohs are doing awful except for a flourishing period in the middle of the season. Add pack Rovers points and they are doing average in what has been a bleak season for them with the deduction. Pats are doing awful and getting worse as the season goes by. Apart from Shels this is the 2nd successive disappointing season for these clubs.

I'd consider us more likely to be drawing crowds if we had a few less points actually. Following being knocked out of both cups our season has petered out into meaningless mid table mediocrety. Also consider how strongly we finished in our last season in the premier. We've had not one sustained period of exciting form in the league this season. I'd venture to say summer soccer has had next to no negative effect on our crowds.

Well let's face it Derry's crowds had gone down so far the only way was up. Cork are suddenly attracting 200,000 to all their home games...:D

Some of your crowds this season have been worryingly small, especially at a time when the club was on it's knees cashflow wise. It was touch and go whether Blues would survive and there seemed to be apathy among some of the Blaa eating faithful as to whether ye had an EL club or not. Which I have to say as someone who has a grá for the city and the club was disappointing.

[pineapple stu]

all clubs bar those two [Cork and Derry] seem to have experienced a drop in support.
Even though the attendances thread here shows (a) the league average compared to 2004 is up about 3 people and (b) Cork are down 15% on last year? (Granted, due to having official attendances now, but you certainly can't assume that Cork are up this year).

[Schumi]

An average of around 683 for the season. That is DOWN on our relegation season of 2003 and that proves summer soccer has failed at UCD.A bit misleading. Our remaining two games are against Dublin clubs. If you assume crowds of 1000 for each of those (around the figure for the corresponding games earlier in the season, probably more than that if anything), you get an average of 722 which is a bit healthier.

[NY Hoop]

Summer soccer has failed all the Dublin clubs in fact it has failed everyone this season bar Cork City and Derry City because all clubs bar those two seem to have experienced a drop in support.


CTID you are really gonna have to let this go. Summer soccer has NOT failed all the Dublin clubs. Where is the evidence? As was pointed out elsewhere bar Shels the 3 other Dublin clubs are having awful seasons.

I go to all Rovers games home and away and granted while there has not been a huge increase there has not been a decrease either in attendances.

I would equate anyone who wants to go back to the bad old days as being equal to our old board. Heads in the sand living in a dream world.

Do you really want to go back to going to games in the winter with all that entails? The mind numbing cold, ****ing rain, games called off all over the place.

Do you really want to go back to Irish sides getting hammered in the qualifying stages of European competitions?

We give the league administrators dogs abuse and deservedly so but their decision to move to summer football was the best thing ever to happen the league. We need to move on and keep improving with better facililties, better tv coverage, better marketing and with that the attendances will increase.


KOH

[Schumi]

bar Shels the 3 other Dublin clubs are having awful seasons. Shels too by recent standards.

Agree with the rest. Even if our crowds are marginally down, the memories of freezing Bray-like conditions from winter seasons are enough to keep the season as it is.

[CollegeTillIDie]

CTID you are really gonna have to let this go. Summer soccer has NOT failed all the Dublin clubs. Where is the evidence? As was pointed out elsewhere bar Shels the 3 other Dublin clubs are having awful seasons.

I go to all Rovers games home and away and granted while there has not been a huge increase there has not been a decrease either in attendances.

I would equate anyone who wants to go back to the bad old days as being equal to our old board. Heads in the sand living in a dream world.

Do you really want to go back to going to games in the winter with all that entails? The mind numbing cold, ****ing rain, games called off all over the place.

Do you really want to go back to Irish sides getting hammered in the qualifying stages of European competitions?

We give the league administrators dogs abuse and deservedly so but their decision to move to summer football was the best thing ever to happen the league. We need to move on and keep improving with better facililties, better tv coverage, better marketing and with that the attendances will increase.


KOH


You can still get p***ed on in the height of summer here. Where this myth about good weather in Ireland came from I don't know!
As regards performances in Europe Longford still got hammered this year didn't they?

[Student Mullet]

You can still get p***ed on in the height of summer here. Where this myth about good weather in Ireland came from I don't know!
As regards performances in Europe Longford still got hammered this year didn't they?You need to take averages and probability into account. You are less likely to get rained on in summer (and when you do it's still warmer). Longford were less likely to get hammered (which makes their hammering that much worse).

Attendances are about the same. You're splitting hairs arguing over numbers of Dublin clubs etc...

[CollegeTillIDie]

You need to take averages and probability into account. You are less likely to get rained on in summer (and when you do it's still warmer). Longford were less likely to get hammered (which makes their hammering that much worse).

Attendances are about the same. You're splitting hairs arguing over numbers of Dublin clubs etc...

If all the stadia in this country were all seater and all roofed over, some wusses would still make excuses for not attending EL games. Basically the idea that Ireland is a great nation of real football supporters is a myth. The relative lack of support that teams get here particularly in the First Division bears that out.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Shels too by recent standards.

Agree with the rest. Even if our crowds are marginally down, the memories of freezing Bray-like conditions from winter seasons are enough to keep the season as it is.
Schumi

The Carlisle is freezing even when the rest of the country is enjoying a heatwave, another place you can freeze is the Jodi Stand in Dalyer.

[NY Hoop]

Schumi

The Carlisle is freezing even when the rest of the country is enjoying a heatwave, another place you can freeze is the Jodi Stand in Dalyer.

???:confused: We were there in July and it was a lovely day. Is there a freezer you inhabit in the ground?

Agree with your statement about this nations football "supporters". That goes back to there being no football culture here. Majority of people go to pubs to watch games but for the people who do go to the games week in week out summer soccer is the only answer. Last few summers have been very warm as well BTW!

KOH

[Schumi]

The Carlisle is freezing even when the rest of the country is enjoying a heatwave, another place you can freeze is the Jodi Stand in Dalyer.
My point was that I remember games in Belfield (one in particular v Monaghan) when it was like Bray on a bad day. Since the move to summer(-ish!) season, there hasn't been a game like that.

[Bald Student]

The Carlisle is freezing even when the rest of the country is enjoying a heatwave, another place you can freeze is the Jodi Stand in Dalyer.CTID,
No one is denying that the weather is sometimes cold. The point is that the winter is colder than the summer.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Think he got ya on that one!!!

As we still play matches in March and November no he didn't

[NY Hoop]

As we still play matches in March and November no he didn't

Get over it please. Though matches should'nt be played in November if they started the season first week of March.


KOH

[pineapple stu]

As we still play matches in March and November no he didn't
As we don't now play matches in December, January and February - the coldest months of the year - yes, he did.

The only bad thing about summer soccer is that games in the bright sunlight just aren't the same as under floodlights.

[CollegeTillIDie]

As we don't now play matches in December, January and February - the coldest months of the year - yes, he did.

The only bad thing about summer soccer is that games in the bright sunlight just aren't the same as under floodlights.

You can't have it both ways pineapple stu and NY Hoop.
What with our tropical temperatures in the first week of March :rolleyes:

March is often very very cold especially when the floodlights are on

[Bald Student]

March can be cold wheather we play summer soccer or winter soccer.

[CollegeTillIDie]

March can be cold wheather we play summer soccer or winter soccer.

At last well said! The way some posters in this thread have been going on you would swear that you could swan around in T-shirt and shorts every March in Ireland .... and I am sure you would also agree that cold weather also applies to November!

[NY Hoop]

Am not having it both ways and you're missing the point. You have to acknowledge that in general the weather in March is going to be better than in December.

I notice you havent answered my question re going back to the old days of hammerings in Europe........

Granted there should'nt be games in November but that is the fault of the league.

KOH

[pineapple stu]

At last well said!
:D He hasn't changed his point and now you're agreeing with him?!


he way some posters in this thread have been going on you would swear that you could swan around in T-shirt and shorts every March in Ireland
Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is that, on average, the weather at games is better now that the season runs from March to November. "On average" means you can't pick out the coldest month in summer soccer, compare it to the warmest month in winter soccer and say the weather is the same.

[Schumi]

What with our tropical temperatures in the first week of March :rolleyes:

March is often very very cold especially when the floodlights are on
:rolleyes: We played in March anyway!!!!!!!

Why is it colder with floodlights on incidentally?

[pineapple stu]

Can I suggest this thread be locked? I'm getting dizzy.

[Schumi]

Nah, I'll leave for a while, there's bound to be a Post Of The Month contender in here eventually!

[Bald Student]

Why is it colder with floodlights on incidentally?Because it's night-time.

[HarpoJoyce]

Because it's night-time.


Maybe if the ground staff turned the floodlights on earlier in the evening, then it would be warmer by the time KO came around. Typical.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Am not having it both ways and you're missing the point. You have to acknowledge that in general the weather in March is going to be better than in December.

I notice you havent answered my question re going back to the old days of hammerings in Europe........

Granted there should'nt be games in November but that is the fault of the league.

KOH

You mean losing 0-8 on aggregate to Polish opposition type of thing?:D

[NY Hoop]

You mean losing 0-8 on aggregate to Polish opposition type of thing?:D

Exactly! Look back 2 years and we won in Poland so revenge was very sweet. Would that have happened if we weren't playing summer soccer? NO.

It's not rocket science. The league is better because of summer soccer:rolleyes:


KOH

[CollegeTillIDie]

Exactly! Look back 2 years and we won in Poland so revenge was very sweet. Would that have happened if we weren't playing summer soccer? NO.

It's not rocket science. The league is better because of summer soccer:rolleyes:


KOH

The results in Europe have been largely better with the exception of Longford.
The League itself may well be better. However the coverage in the Newspapers is not and neither are the crowds.

[NY Hoop]

No but the crowds are not down either. Unfortunately the media are obsessed with football in another country and only take an interest if there is bad news:rolleyes:

KOH

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well your crowds are definitely down! This years crowd at Dalymount between Rovers and College has got to be the smallest "home" crowd at a Rovers V UCD game in living memory, and some members of your 400 club told me as much on the night.

[NY Hoop]

Well your crowds are definitely down! This years crowd at Dalymount between Rovers and College has got to be the smallest "home" crowd at a Rovers V UCD game in living memory, and some members of your 400 club told me as much on the night.

I meant the overall crowds:rolleyes: You cant say "Oh Rovers crowds are down lets revert back to playing in the winter"!

Official attendance was 1046 that night. Check that against boez, shels and pats home games against you and get back to me. Factor in the fact that we dont have a home ground, a team in the lower half of the table and that the club had changed ownership I would consider it a not bad crowd for the opposition concerned.

I'll give you a smaller crowd for a Rovers "home" game against UCD: Season 1987/88.

KOH

[CollegeTillIDie]

Shels pulled in more than 2000 against us on the opening Day of the season. As regards the other games I don't have that info.
If my club had won 24 Cups and 15 League titles and were teetering on the brink of extinction at one point in the season, I would expect more fans to rally to the cause than 1,046. And I am equally disappointed by the relative apathy of WUFC supporters this season at a time when they badly needed strong attendances they pulled in under 500 to a home game against us.

[CollegeTillIDie]

If games which are six-pointers cannot draw the crowds then nothing can.
Successful teams and teams in danger of the drop should have huge crowds as their games are "interesting" and their results have some bearing on matters in the table. Mid-table teams possibly might struggle on the basis that their results do not effect anything i.e. safe from the drop and no hope of making Europe.

[pineapple stu]

Well your crowds are definitely down!
In fact, the attendance thread here (which I always say isn't definitive, but is the best guide you'll get) shows Rovers' crowds up 11% this season. Overall crowds for the entire league are down 0.67%.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well pineapple stu I have maintained that crowds are down and you have proved me correct... Overall crowds are down... I am not imagining things. I hadn't seen a Rovers match since 2003 so that was what I was comparing their crowds with.

[pineapple stu]

Well pineapple stu I have maintained that crowds are down and you have proved me correct... Overall crowds are down...
Given that attendances are guesstimates and not official, 0.67% - 8 people - cannot be taken as conclusive proof that attendances are down. In particular you have to consider more official attendances (e.g. Cork) which are replace over-high guesstimates, and also the fact that we've gotten a much higher percentage of First Division figures, which would drive the figures down. I'd say in reality, attendances are actually up this season, but our stats aren't accurate enough to show that.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Seems to be a lot more empty seats on TV highlights these days

[pineapple stu]

Oh come on!!

Shels' average crowd is about 2,000. They play in a 9,000-capacity ground. Their ground is therefore typically 75% empty anyway. That's the same for a lot of clubs - us, Bohs, Longford, etc., etc. You're not going to notice the difference between a 70% empty ground and a 75% empty ground on telly.

[CollegeTillIDie]

It depends on where they choose to sit now doesn't it?