What do we do now?

[Irish_Praha]

As a 28-year-old on a whole the last two have been the most disappointing qualifying campaigns I have experienced, especially this one. Yes Euro 92, & 96 under Charlton and the first two with McCarthy had bitter endings but this one was full of disappointment from start to finish and we managed to finish a lowly 4th :o Pathetic is probably the best word to describe it all. So what do we do to improve our situation and move the team forward rather than the backward trend we are seeing at the moment??
The main reasons for our current situation have been discussed to infinitum on here and the main problems seem to be as follows (in no particular order - feel free to add more)

Lack of investment in grass roots and the domestic league and generally a badly organised FA.
Small pool of players and a limited number of world-class or good quality international players.
Lazy and uninterested EPL stars.
We are too reliant on the English league.
We had a poor manager for this campaign with negative tactics and unwilling to give the domestic players a chance.

What can we do to battle these problems?
This is going to be a long post so I’ll avoid the grass roots problem, the poor management and to a certain extent the uninterested players.
To simply summarise my ideas I would say we need to set up some academies and to re-introduce the Ireland B team.

Unfortunately the setting up of academies requires money and there's not a lot to spare now that we haven't qualified for the WC. However, if the money was available I would like to see a least two setup. One in the Dublin area (because that's where most Eircom players are based) and another one somewhere in England (Birmingham would be a good choice). I know an academy in England might appear to increase the likelihood of our players depending too heavily on the English league but that's the way things are at the moment :( This academy would serve as a meeting place for all the Irish underage players or even reserve team players up to the age of 23, mainly as a bonding session and to lend a helping hand to anyone having difficulties with adapting to living in a new country or getting through a difficult time with injuries. A major role would be to get the players familiar with each other by organising games, which could be against Eircom league teams or local English teams. This would be a help if a number of them push on and become full internationals as they will know and have played with each other on numerous occasions. Unlike what we saw in the last two games for Ireland. where they were playing like 11 individuals. Another feature would be to educate the young lads about the other top leagues in Europe and this should include the language and culture. The next step would be for the academy to make itself known to the clubs on the continent. They could have open training sessions and games where scouts from these countries would be invited. Naturally the academy would have strong links with the Eircom league and any player that needs to be sent out on loan would be made aware of the possibilities of returning home for a few months.

As stated the academy in England would be there to support the players who have already moved there. The one in Dublin would be setup to educate the youngsters in the domestic league in a similar way but also to convince them to stay in Ireland a few years longer and give them information on options other than moving to the UK. They should emphasise the importance of the domestic league to the development of Irish football in the future and remind them that in 10 or 15 years if they have had a successful career in the UK or on the continent it would be a good gesture if they would return to the EL for their last few playing years instead of just moving to a lower level in the country where they have moved to. If they were ex internationals this would increase the profile and attendances of the EL.

Next comes the Ireland B team. I admit I’m not an expert on the EL but you have to admit it is very difficult to tell if a player that does well there is quality enough to make it at international level. All our recent international managers have been very reluctant to take the chance even in meaningless friendly games. To make it easier for them I think the Ireland B team should be reactivated and a combination of fringe players from the English leagues and the top players from the EL should be played against other B teams and if possible some half-decent full international sides. This would be the perfect opportunity for the EL players to show what they can do. Then they could even further press for their inclusion the international squad.

Well I’ve written enough on the subject now. What suggestions do you have as experts on the EL and grass-roots Irish football?

[Dawn_Run]

Firstly, I am glad that someone is looking to the future rather than dwelling on the past. I agree with most of your points here but I still believe Kerr is the man for the job.

Lets not be fooled into thinking that all is bleak for the future. All I keep hearing is that we havent the players, it will be 20 years before we can compete again, and so on. Fact of the matter is, we HAVE the players. We have some top class young players coming up. These players, however, need to be nurtured in the correct manner. Academies, as you have mentioned before are a neccessity. We need to get rid of Don Givens, he just doesnt care enough. Brian Kerr knows he has made mistakes and I have never seen a manager want a new contract as much as him. He has ideas about the way forward and if those ideas include dropping players that arent performing and bringing through excellent young enthuisiastic players then so be it. There are too many players surviving on their reputations.

The eL question is a tough one. There needs to be a bit of pride attached to playing eL football. A lot of players use it as a stepping stone to England and you cant blame them for it. There is no comparison between the two. The FAI need to seriously consider re-branding the eL.

Lastly, lets use the experience we currently have in our team. You cant equate a win unless you have had your fair share of failures. I call on the experienced players to lead by example and help drive the upcoming youth. God knows they need it.

Here's to 2008...

[thejollyrodger]

ah, im disapointed as well lads and Im not getting any younger but we'll be back stronger than ever. If we make the Euro 2008 ill be happy.

[Stuttgart88]

Lets not be fooled into thinking that all is bleak for the future. All I keep hearing is that we havent the players, it will be 20 years before we can compete again, and so on. Fact of the matter is, we HAVE the players. We have some top class young players coming up.

Hear Hear. When 5 Irish players in one team win the FA Youth Cup things are hardly bleak. The form of several youngsters in the Championship this year has been encouraging. All the usual suspects (ex-Irish international pundits) know NOTHING about the Irish players outside the 22 or 23 selected in Kerr's squads. Why? Because they're not interested enough to look. I met Robbie Keane last Thursday - I was beside him on the plane back to London after the match. I asked him what he thought of Paul McShane. I saw McShane on Tuesday & thought he was class. Robbie hadn't heard of him. It irks me when Houghton & Frank the Plank are paid for their opinions when they're formed on very limited research.

But I have lost faith in Kerr. His reign to date has been dour & unimaginative. I was keeping my views relatively open until the last two games. Bt they were really poor perforaances, just like in previous key games. During the friendly programme we learnt next to nothing about our fringe players. Some players - Kenny Cunningham was a fine example - just take to international football immediately without setting the world on fire for their clubs. Who's to say someone like Alan Quinn wouldn't do the same? Of the 11 that started against Switzerland only Andy Reid made his debut under Kerr. I actually really enjoyed the early days of Mick's reign when we got a chance to see new faces tried & results were secondary. Only in the Unity Cup and in Amsterdam did this ever happen under Brian.

I accept he's worked really hard & I applaud his conscientiousness but I'm afraid Brian just hasn't brought the qualities required to get this bunch of players - many of which are actually quite good I think - to perform. I reckon only Andy O'Brien has really blossomed under Kerr.

[as_i_say]

We may have the players coming through but will he play them?aiden mcgeady must be regretting ever choosing us. when he was palying out of his skin for celtic, kerr would give him 2 mins in a friendly.

we need those fringe younsters in premiership to be given pitch time straight away in friendlies. McCarthy did it with the likes of foley,daish,farrelly,goodman,butler and others. if they dont make it, so be it.

Potter,ireland,flood,kelly,elliot,mcgeady, doyle-they mightnt be world beaters but we'll never know unless they get a chance-

[colster]

I said this in another thread. Things are not as gloomy as people are making out. We have a lot of young players just breaking through now. It was much worse when McCarthy took over we had a very old team and not many players coming through. The analysts were saying the same thing back then that we were in for a long period in the doldrums. Then we started to have success at Youth level.
Most of these analysts haven't a clue of the young Irish players coming through. You'd imagine Brady would know that most of the FA Youth cup winners were Irish. Has he a hidden agenda? Is he trying to lower expectation?
Also, most of our team is still young. They under performed this (and the last campaign) but still came within a goal or 2 of qualifying.
I think these players will play better.
The immediate solution is to get a new manager.
The other thing we need to do is to get the fun back into the Irish team. I think it's too serious now. We need to get the players playing playing with a smile on their faces. We need to concentrate on what we are good at and not the other team. Let them worry about us.

As for the general state of Irish football I think improvements are needed but not drastically so. We are moving in the right direction. In the last few seasons EL sides have had some success in Europe. They are no longer the whipping boys of the past. Cork City and Shels have proved that they can compete. With a little bit more encouragement, luck or investment one of them may qualify for the Champions League.
This is where the new landsdowne road development worries me. I'd love Croker to be available and use the money for landsdowne to develop a number of smaller stadia and pitches around the country.

[Bomb Landsdowne]

Try out what the rugby schools do, such as blackrock college and castleknock college etc. Apply a similar concept to football. These schools can then be used as feeder schools to Eircom league clubs. Give these young lads scholarships paid for by the Fai. Have them train 3 hours a day by Eircom league coaches while at the same time getting an education so they have something to fall back on just in case it doesnt work out. At the same time get the government to introduce a ban on young lads younger than 18 leaving for england(similar to that in norway). Nurture them young. Bring them to the games every Friday night build there allegiences to whatever team. What the rest of you think???

[Marked Man]

Try out what the rugby schools do, such as blackrock college and castleknock college etc. Apply a similar concept to football. These schools can then be used as feeder schools to Eircom league clubs. Give these young lads scholarships paid for by the Fai. Have them train 3 hours a day by Eircom league coaches while at the same time getting an education so they have something to fall back on just in case it doesnt work out. At the same time get the government to introduce a ban on young lads younger than 18 leaving for england(similar to that in norway). Nurture them young. Bring them to the games every Friday night build there allegiences to whatever team. What the rest of you think???


Some good ideas there. But a ban on leaving Ireland to pursue your career? Seriously, now... c'mon outta that.

[colster]

Some good ideas there. But a ban on leaving Ireland to pursue your career? Seriously, now... c'mon outta that.

How about offering some of the top young players central contracts. Have a draft (like US) with the EL Premier Division sides getting a pick of those players. In that way we could keep some of our top talent at home.

[Green Army Girl]

Im glad to see that everyone is looking forward to the future but we already have a young enough side and look where they have got us. I dont think Ireland will ever see he likes of Paul McGrath, Liam Brady etc those days are gone pretty soon Northern Ireland will be beating us in the rankings. Im sorry to be so pessimistic but i think the future looks s*it.

[colster]

Im glad to see that everyone is looking forward to the future but we already have a young enough side and look where they have got us. I dont think Ireland will ever see he likes of Paul McGrath, Liam Brady etc those days are gone pretty soon Northern Ireland will be beating us in the rankings. Im sorry to be so pessimistic but i think the future looks s*it.

And what do you base that on?

[paul_oshea]

Im sorry to be so pessimistic but i think the future looks s*it.


how did a couple of months change your mind so drastically, only then you were saying we would beat france.

i dont want to sound all i told ye so, but after that draw in israel i thought we would struggle to get a play off, unfortunately that feckin happened!!!

we are a better team than the last 3 performances in my opinino and if we can get someone like martin oneill in i reckon we will prove that also.

[colster]

how did a couple of months change your mind so drastically, only then you were saying we would beat france.

i dont want to sound all i told ye so, but after that draw in israel i thought we would struggle to get a play off, unfortunately that feckin happened!!!

we are a better team than the last 3 performances in my opinino and if we can get someone like martin oneill in i reckon we will prove that also.

Well said. If you ask the question can the team play better? I think the answer is yes. And when you look at it having not played our best in this campaign we still were a win away from qualifying. 1 goal against in any of those drawn games and we'd be in the playoffs.

[paul_oshea]

1 goal against in any of those drawn games and we'd be in the playoffs.

yes but the thing is we never looked like scoring against switzerland and really we were very limited in the final third against france, so you cant just say that 1 goal as though we were close to scoring because we werent.

[colster]

yes but the thing is we never looked like scoring against switzerland and really we were very limit in the final third against france, so you cant just say that 1 goal as though we were close to scoring because we werent.

What about O'Shea's miss against France in Paris, Harte's miss against the Swiss in Dublin to name but a few.
Anyway, you're missing the point. The point is that although we didn't play as well as I think we can we were still very close to qualifying.
I think with a change of Manager and a more adventurous approach we'll be back in contention for Euro and the World Cup qualification very soon.

[paul_oshea]

no i got the point and i agreed with it in general, but in terms of scoring or getting "another 1 goal" was a lot further away than an extra point, those two chances were about all we had in those said games, especially the harte one, so although we were close to qualifying technically ( i.e. a point ), the chances (were very very limited) we had to get that point in order to make a play off was in reality a long way off.

[colster]

no i got the point and i agreed with it in general, but in terms of scoring or getting "another 1 goal" was a lot further away than an extra point, those two chances were about all we had in those said games, especially the harte one, so although we were close to qualifying technically ( i.e. a point ), the chances (were very very limited) we had to get that point in order to make a play off was in reality a long way off.

Agreed we may have not had that many chances in those games. I still think we were pretty close and with a better manager I think we would have qualified.

[Condex]

Agreed we may have not had that many chances in those games. I still think we were pretty close and with a better manager I think we would have qualified.

Agree!!!

[Green Army Girl]

Yeah i did say we could beat France and i think we played well in that game but whats the point in playing one match well and end up drawing two matches against Israel when you were winning both matches. Im tired of watching a team that plays well until we score a goal and then fall back. I hope the only thing we do need is a good manager and i do think that Kerr was a big part of the problem playing players that i dont think deserved to play and everyone else in the Republic wouldnt have played. I want to enjoy watching Ireland playing again and thats just how i feel about it.

[Bomb Landsdowne]

Two of Irelands greatest ever players left Ireland to play in england when they were older than 18, Paul Mcgrath and Roy Keane. And look at Kevin Doyle at the moment he left Cork City at 21 and now hes bangin the goals in for Reading. A star for the future Those 3 prove my point!!!

[Marked Man]

Well you can prove any case if you only focus on the examples that back it up. What about players like O' Leary, Brady, and Quinn? Didn't they leave prior to turning 18? Weren't they successful?

[Bomb Landsdowne]

Thats true. But think of the 100s of irish young lads who go across the water at 16 then get homesick or things dont work out ,then come home and end up working in dead end jobs and are lost to the game. Had they stayed here and played and then travelled to England at 20 or so they could have had successful careers in football. The route quinn etc took isnt the only way,