Should we merge?

[sligoman]

I've noticed a lot of people seem to want the F.A.I. and the I.F.A. to join together. I'm totally against this. How would the rest of ye feel about this?:confused:

[Colbert Report]

yes i would like to merge, give us more players to choose from and a vote on the international football council.

[Dan K]

I'm not actually bothered either way, but I really can't see the IFA going for it.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I am in favour for the following reasons 1/The boys in Merrion Square would have to make room for some of the boys from Donegall Place, give me Jim Boyce over John Delaney anyday 2/ An All-Ireland professional League would emerge which is in the long term best interests of club football on this island
3/ We would finally get an All-Ireland team which would most likely qualify for tournaments more often than either NI or the Republic have been able to do historically, having 6 million people to choose from rather than 4.2 million makes sense

[Éanna]

The ideal scenario for the real football fans on the ground would be that both were disbanded and the fans themselves could organise things properly and set about putting a proper structure in place. That won't happen, so in the meantime, the best option is a merger- which won't happen either.

[Volcán Masaya]

Can we merge with Brasil or Argentina instead?

I like the idea of all-Ireland team, we have it in most other sports, but I don't think it will make us much stronger.
Look at Germany, if anything, they declined a bit after reunification. Or another example... an all-GB team wouldn't be that much better than the present England team, shore up a position or two, but overall not a huge difference.

[Closed Account 2]

Im for it, both the FAI and IFA are getting left behind, the domestic leagues are not in too good a shape - in the long run its the only way forward. Times have changed since the 70s and 80s, I dont see why it couldnt happen in the next 10 years.

[FarBeag]

Well it wont hurt.They have some good players and very passionate fans but i really dont think it will ever happen.

[A face]

Im for it, both the FAI and IFA are getting left behind, the domestic leagues are not in too good a shape - in the long run its the only way forward. Times have changed since the 70s and 80s, I dont see why it couldnt happen in the next 10 years.

I think you are right there .... if they merge now, they can turn it around .... wht will it be like in ten years time if we haven't merged by then ???

info@fai.ie - info@irishfa.com

[oconghc2]

its strange that since the win over England - we're starting to hear all this talk of merger!! maybe just a coincidence.

I'm 100% for it though - it's sad that its still partionist. Who knows there may be a united ireland in the near future so why not get a head start now on the football side! Just hope we dont have to sing Irelands Call

shake up is needed and maybe a shift of power from Merrion Square is whats needed! And I reckon a manager like Sanchez is whats needed!

When we played under Charlton - emphasis was put on pressure and passion because our players were supposedly less talented! (Questionable though!) It worked to an extent!

Now we have worse players than we had back then! and yet we show little or no passion and put opposition under hardly any pressure!(take a bow John O Shea et al.). Someone like Sanchez would probably get more out of players!

[ThatGuy]

Can we merge with Brasil or Argentina instead?

I like the idea of all-Ireland team, we have it in most other sports, but I don't think it will make us much stronger.
Look at Germany, if anything, they declined a bit after reunification. Or another example... an all-GB team wouldn't be that much better than the present England team, shore up a position or two, but overall not a huge difference.
Who cares if an All-Ireland team makes it any stronger? That is besides the point. There should only be one Ireland team, even if that meant that we were to have a weaker team.

[crc]

merge with a british team, boll0x to that
that would mean we would have roy carroll as are second keeper
boll0x to that
Go back to your cave.

[Gerrit]

I voted no.:

- I can see the games would all be in Dublin while we in Belfast would get an U21 game as maximum.

- No Northerners would make the team, which is fair enough in some way I guess but which is something no OWC fan will like.

- The same as what used to happen with Nationalists at Northern Ireland games in the past, would happen with Unionists who want to support the merged team. With all those Celtic jerseys at Lansdowne, you cannot deny the ROI fanbase also has a sectarian element. I don't think any Unionist would feel welcome at Lansdowne, and then we're talking about those who travel to Dublin and thus obviously want to support a United Ireland team.
and I fear there'd even be incidents with a few ROI fans trying to make the Northerners feel unwelcome in a very explicit way (remember what happened to Israeli fans ?).

- the Unionist fans have the same rights to carry a Union Jack to the new team's games as the Southerners have the right to wear the tricolore. The majority of fans will be mature enough to accept both, but I can see this giving problems with a minority of less respecting fans from both sides.

- as per FIFA rules, when you merge national sides you need to merge leagues. I don't think apart from Linfield, Glens and Ports any Northern team would be invited to the new league.



I don't think this island is ready for mergers yet. Try to further build bridges via Setanta Cup and other initiatives, but don't blow up existing bridges by wanting to rush things.

[Zidane]

Apart from anything else, we would have to share the ticket allocation and that will make it even harder to get to games.

[thejollyrodger]

I voted no. I dont want all those loyalist down in dublin with all their british paraphernalia. i dont know how it would make the side any better either.

[Tired&Emotional]

Recipe for disaster, and I don't mean on the pitch. Can you imagine the hardliners (from both sides but moreso from NI) being "told" to merge....there'll be riots among the home fans!!!

I think this should be thought thru' properly and not just as a means to get a better squad on the pitch. Anyway has anyone seen the clubs the NI players are with?!

[Kingdom]

So just beacuse we didn't make the playoff's we should merge with the IFA . Fcuk that. The only good reason for that would be to get an All-Irish league.
Can't see the Belfast boys wanting to trapse down to Lansdowne every second month (I'd imagine there would be a switch between dublin and Belfast every second game).
Besides why would the Norn Iron supporters want to come to Lansdowne to be told to 'sit down' or 'stop making noise you're ruining it for everyone'.

;)

[gspain]

Should the people of NI get a say?

How about if there was a poll on the English site - should we merge with the RoI coz Duff would solve their left side iof midfield problem. We'd be up in arms.

The F.A.I. split from the IFA in 1921 and are hardly going to go cap in hand and ask to be taken back nor should they.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Outside the context of an all Ireland state of whatever kind (and maybe not even then:eek: ) No we should not 'Merge'.

I'd have far more time for the idea of a unified league than a unified national team. No winners in it and I've no interest in disenfranchising anyone -on our side or theirs.

[Dodge]

LOL @ some of the responses here. A reason for not merging was that it'd be harder to get tickets... Sweet jesus, has nobody a sense of realism here.

Would love it to happen but politics, and opnly politics, dictate it won't. Any Irishman who votes no for footballing (or tickets, or grounds) reasons needs toask themselves some real hard questions

[Lionel Ritchie]

LOL @ some of the responses here. A reason for not merging was that it'd be harder to get tickets... Sweet jesus, has nobody a sense of realism here.

Would love it to happen but politics, and opnly politics, dictate it won't. Any Irishman who votes no for footballing (or tickets, or grounds) reasons needs toask themselves some real hard questions
:D Like what Dodge? What's the square root of 292929394949595?
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Do tell.

[Tired&Emotional]

Well, with some peoples humble "opinions" 'round here, thank god we live in a democracy!!! A vote is for peolpe to use as they see fit, no??!! (No matter their place on the foodchain!!)

[junkie]

I think some people here have forgot the FACT that the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two seperate countries under different governments.

It won't happen ever and even if it could happen I wouldn't want it due to the obvious political reasons.

Unless the British hand those 6 counties back then I'd be up for it.

[as_i_say]

it'd never work. they have enough trouble deciding what they should call themselves as it is- "what flag should i bring to tonights game? union jack,english flag,ulster flag,english flag with the little crown in the middle or with the red hand in the middle? dang.

In a perfect world its an idea but there would be row all over the place.

if it did happen though at least the pitch in windsor park has a surface that you can actually pass the ball on!

[crc]

Unless the British hand those 6 counties back then I'd be up for it.
Don't you 'get it'? The British aren't holding onto NI; they don't want it.

What is holding up Irish unity (on political, sporting and other levels) is that Unionists in the north-east of Ireland don't trust the majority that would ultimately dominate them. And as long as we label them 'bigots', call their British identity illegitimate and generally deride their cultures and traditions, their not likely to look on us more favourably anytime soon. We need to be their friends as much as they need to be ours.

[pineapple stu]

merge with a british team, boll0x to that
Great Britain comprises England, Scotland and Wales. NI isn't British, as far as I can see.

Have to echo Dodge's post. Some remarkably stupid reasons given here. Some people have no sense of proportion...

[crc]

Great Britain comprises England, Scotland and Wales. NI isn't British, as far as I can see..
Oddly enough you only seem to half 'get it'. Strictly geographically NI isn't British, but to deny that northern unionists have a British identity, or worse, to imply that it is illegitimate is precisely the reason they won't join a united Ireland.

Like it or not, if we ever want a UI (and I most certainly do) we are all going to have to recognise that having a British identity, and wishing to express that politically is a legitimate politically (through state institutions), is perfectly legitimate. After all, the unionist position (that Ireland and Britain are culturally linked) is completely pragmatic - don't most Irishmen already watch BBC, support Man Utd, listen to British music, win British literary prizes, etc, etc.. ? I'm not advocating rejoining the UK (at any stretch of the imagination), but we need to stop defining everything we do in opposition to our nearest neighbours.

If, as a society, we were able to recognise that you could be a commited Irishman, whilst at the same time having affection for the society accross the Irish sea (as is currently the case for most people in private), we would reap great rewards politically, socially, and possibly even sportingly.

[The Legend]

NO... i'll think about re-considering.... if Scotland and Wales merge with England!

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'd go along with much of what CRC said. There is a irreconcilable complex within some Irish attitudes to Britishness. I remember a mate of mine (Irish) saying to me years ago how he thought the Irish were a feckin hoot -going on about how much they hate the brits and hate knacks ...and then settle down for an evenings prime time viewing watching programmes predominantly built around british knacks.:eek:

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I am in favour for the following reasons 1/The boys in Merrion Square would have to make room for some of the boys from Donegall Place, give me Jim Boyce over John Delaney anyday 2/ An All-Ireland professional League would emerge which is in the long term best interests of club football on this island
3/ We would finally get an All-Ireland team which would most likely qualify for tournaments more often than either NI or the Republic have been able to do historically, having 6 million people to choose from rather than 4.2 million makes sense

Rarely have I read anything so stupid. Jim Boyce, are you having a laugh? I'm not a fan of Delaney but he's surely better than the biggot Boyce. This is a man who once wrote a letter to a young player from the North who declared for the Republic and played underage football. Boyce asked the player whether the fact that his mother was a Catholic had anything to do with the decision. The young player replied saying "no" and that he had waited for a call-up from the North but never received one. He thought it was funny how he got into Brian Kerr's underage squad at a time when the Republic had just won two European Championships, but couldn't make it for the North. He knew that sectarianism was the reason. By all accounts Jim Boyce is the Ollie Byrne of Northern football.

As for merging with the North, I do see some benefits. We would have 3 Premiership goalkeepers - Given, Taylor and Carroll. We would attain an excellent young midfielder - Steven Davis, as well as a proven international goalscorer - David Healy. A fit George McCartney might also have a claim to a starting place. Furthermore, the North will have a 30,000 all-seater stadium in a few years.

However, I'm against the idea of a merger. While it would be good to have a merger between the EL and IL, we have to remember that the Republic and the North are two different countries. I don't particularly want to see a 32 county republic. I think we have enough to look after with the 26 counties. Anyway, with the majority of the North's population considering themselves British, I believe they have a right to remain as a separate entity.

Some people have short memories here. It is the same Northern Ireland supporters that levelled sectarian and racial abuse at Packie Bonner and Paul McGrath at Windsor Park in November 1993. I would never support the same team as them.

Neither nation is ready for a merger.

[Éanna]

Oddly enough you only seem to half 'get it'. Strictly geographically NI isn't British, but to deny that northern unionists have a British identity, or worse, to imply that it is illegitimate is precisely the reason they won't join a united Ireland.

Like it or not, if we ever want a UI (and I most certainly do) we are all going to have to recognise that having a British identity, and wishing to express that politically is a legitimate politically (through state institutions), is perfectly legitimate. After all, the unionist position (that Ireland and Britain are culturally linked) is completely pragmatic - don't most Irishmen already watch BBC, support Man Utd, listen to British music, win British literary prizes, etc, etc.. ? I'm not advocating rejoining the UK (at any stretch of the imagination), but we need to stop defining everything we do in opposition to our nearest neighbours.

If, as a society, we were able to recognise that you could be a commited Irishman, whilst at the same time having affection for the society accross the Irish sea (as is currently the case for most people in private), we would reap great rewards politically, socially, and possibly even sportingly.
excellent post. spot on.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Rarely have I read anything so stupid. Jim Boyce, are you having a laugh? I'm not a fan of Delaney but he's surely better than the biggot Boyce. This is a man who once wrote a letter to a young player from the North who declared for the Republic and played underage football. Boyce asked the player whether the fact that his mother was a Catholic had anything to do with the decision. The young player replied saying "no" and that he had waited for a call-up from the North but never received one. He thought it was funny how he got into Brian Kerr's underage squad at a time when the Republic had just won two European Championships, but couldn't make it for the North. He knew that sectarianism was the reason. By all accounts Jim Boyce is the Ollie Byrne of Northern football.

As for merging with the North, I do see some benefits. We would have 3 Premiership goalkeepers - Given, Taylor and Carroll. We would attain an excellent young midfielder - Steven Davis, as well as a proven international goalscorer - David Healy. A fit George McCartney might also have a claim to a starting place. Furthermore, the North will have a 30,000 all-seater stadium in a few years.

However, I'm against the idea of a merger. While it would be good to have a merger between the EL and IL, we have to remember that the Republic and the North are two different countries. I don't particularly want to see a 32 county republic. I think we have enough to look after with the 26 counties. Anyway, with the majority of the North's population considering themselves British, I believe they have a right to remain as a separate entity.

Some people have short memories here. It is the same Northern Ireland supporters that levelled sectarian and racial abuse at Packie Bonner and Paul McGrath at Windsor Park in November 1993. I would never support the same team as them.

Neither nation is ready for a merger.


Sorry JPM the only thing I agree with you on there is that neither side is ready for a merger.

You might be a bit choosy I think with bits of the story about whoever the young fellah was who decided to chuck in his lot with us. had he been playing for NI at any level? Boyce or anyone else from the IFA is as entitled to try and turn him 'round as the kid is to turn towards us.

Seriously -a charge that sectarianism kept an underage player out of an NI youth team just doesn't stand up to even the most scant scrutiny -Martin O'Neill?, Pat Jennings?, Gerry Armstrong?, Gerry Taggart?, Neil Lennon? All NI heroes in their day, all from Nationalist backgrounds.

As for "what we get out of it" -the reasons you give -a handful of players and maybe a stadium are short term and actually a bit purile.

Now ask what do they get out of it. If rugby is anything to go by -then not much by the looks of things.

I'm a nationalist and someday I would like to see a 32 county unified state -but with a fair deal and a hole lot of horse trading from both sides. One of those horses might just be that in the eventuallity of an AI state then the north still gets to field it's own team thereafter. There's precedent out there.

As for some supporters having short memories here -November 1993 was 12 years ago. The world has turned a good few times since and we should just on with it I think. From what I can see of them these days their support is second to none. It's colourful, enthusiastic, extremely noisy and magnanimous when it doesn't go there way on the park.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Sorry JPM the only thing I agree with you on there is that neither side is ready for a merger.

You might be a bit choosy I think with bits of the story about whoever the young fellah was who decided to chuck in his lot with us. had he been playing for NI at any level? Boyce or anyone else from the IFA is as entitled to try and turn him 'round as the kid is to turn towards us.

Seriously -a charge that sectarianism kept an underage player out of an NI youth team just doesn't stand up to even the most scant scrutiny -Martin O'Neill?, Pat Jennings?, Gerry Armstrong?, Gerry Taggart?, Neil Lennon? All NI heroes in their day, all from Nationalist backgrounds.

As for "what we get out of it" -the reasons you give -a handful of players and maybe a stadium are short term and actually a bit purile.

Now ask what do they get out of it. If rugby is anything to go by -then not much by the looks of things.

I'm a nationalist and someday I would like to see a 32 county unified state -but with a fair deal and a hole lot of horse trading from both sides. One of those horses might just be that in the eventuallity of an AI state then the north still gets to field it's own team thereafter. There's precedent out there.

As for some supporters having short memories here -November 1993 was 12 years ago. The world has turned a good few times since and we should just on with it I think. From what I can see of them these days their support is second to none. It's colourful, enthusiastic, extremely noisy and magnanimous when it doesn't go there way on the park.

The media in the Republic seemed to think that Boyce's actions were serious at the time. How did Boyce know that the young lad had a Catholic mother from the Republic? This is the man who wanted the FAI to sign an agreement that players from the North could no longer play for the Republic, unless they complied with the normal procedure of the "granny rule" etc. Surely that would neglect the culture of Northern nationalists. As for Neil Lennon, was he treated like a NI hero?

As for the world moving on, do you really think that the Northern Ireland fans would act any differently than they did in 1993 if we played them tomorrow. I know our fans wouldn't. There may have been political progress but an sectarian element exists on both sides. Also, while the North may have received great support against England and Wales, they've struggled to fill Windsor Park over the last few years. I think we would be just as colourful and noisey if we had derby games against the English or Welsh.

[Dodge]

Wasn't Boyce cairman of Cliftonville? Surely he wouldn't have obtained that position as a rabid anti-Catholic? AFAIK the agreement was that the players were free to choose North/Republic but that the Republic could not approach the player. Think Boyce complained acouple of times when the FAI approached the player. Seems fair enough to me...

[Lionel Ritchie]

The media in the Republic seemed to think that Boyce's actions were serious at the time. How did Boyce know that the young lad had a Catholic mother from the Republic? This is the man who wanted the FAI to sign an agreement that players from the North could no longer play for the Republic, unless they complied with the normal procedure of the "granny rule" etc. Surely that would neglect the culture of Northern nationalists. As for Neil Lennon, was he treated like a NI hero?.

Listen can you just give us the whole unabridged story on this kid or a link to it rather than drip feeding us extra details? How does anyone know family details about anyone else? word of mouth?
I remember hearing of the IFA complaining we were "poaching" their players. A complaint that is as yet utterly unsubstantiated. There's no agreement that could've been mooted by the IFA or that the FAI could've signed that would have disbarred people born in NI from representing us. It's a right guarenteed under the constitution. Sounds like paper talk and nothing more to me.
Neil Lennon was indeed an NI hero. His move to Celtic set a vocal minority in the NI support against him ...he had far more rooting for him than against. Neither the IFA nor the NI supporters can be blamed if some primate from the Shankill finds a 20p and uses it to make a threatening phone call.

Question: if Rangers came in for Robbie in the January window how do you think the LR crowd would react? I'm pretty certain I know how a certain vocal minority would.


As for the world moving on, do you really think that the Northern Ireland fans would act any differently than they did in 1993 if we played them tomorrow. I know our fans wouldn't. There may have been political progress but an sectarian element exists on both sides. Also, while the North may have received great support against England and Wales, they've struggled to fill Windsor Park over the last few years. I think we would be just as colourful and noisey if we had derby games against the English or Welsh. I don't think us and them being drawn in the same group would be a helpful development at this stage when they're just getting on top of the muppet brigade in their support ...and we're still turning something of a blind eye ours.

They have been consistently filling windsor even when loosing 1-4 to Norway and were still lifting the roof off the place in the dying minutes of a 0-1 to Canada! Can you imagine what LR would be like if we were 0-1 down to Canada in the last few minutes with no-one looking likely to get us back on terms? We'd be gone for the Dart. They were still "doing the bouncey"

[Green Tribe]

Can you imagine what LR would be like if we were 0-1 down to Canada in the last few minutes with no-one looking likely to get us back on terms? We'd be gone for the Dart. They were still "doing the bouncey"

:D LMAO :D Very good........:D

[gspain]

As for the world moving on, do you really think that the Northern Ireland fans would act any differently than they did in 1993 if we played them tomorrow. I know our fans wouldn't. There may have been political progress but an sectarian element exists on both sides. Also, while the North may have received great support against England and Wales, they've struggled to fill Windsor Park over the last few years. I think we would be just as colourful and noisey if we had derby games against the English or Welsh.

The really really sad thing is that our fans would................

I was at all those home and away games from 88-95 and indeed the home game in 1978 (I understand there was trouble in 78 but I can't remember any as I was only 12).

I was really proud that NI fans could sit with the home fans and cheer for their team without any adverse comments, that UJs and Ulster flags could be produced at Lansdowne Road without fear (we had other issues with too many corporates at those games I'll admit). While the events of November 93 were grossly exaggerated in the media here there was an intense sectarian atmosphere and some racist abuse of Paul McGrath also. Actually many of those sectarian bigots are probably now supporting England.

I went back to Windsor for the Azerbaijan game last month - fantastic support, great atmosphere and not a sectarian song or comment in sight. Would it be different if we played them? Possibly - I'd like to think not but it may bring back the superprods. They still had some sectarian booing of Hartson on saturday I believe so still some muppets to weed out.

Sadly I think we may well end up with the same problems. Ten years ago you could have walked around anywhere in the Republic wearing a Rangers top without a problem. I don't think you could today. Haven't seen one for a few years too here. I still cringe when I think of the guy behind me at the Denmark game calling Peter Madsen a "dirty proddie" within earshot of my Danish colleagues, or the guy that called Tore Andre Flo a "hun bast£$d" not to mention the booing. Isolated incidents by a few maybe but a concern.

Having said the above a colleague was wearing a "we're not Brazil we're NI T shirt" on Monday last in our canteen and I spotted a guy wearing a NI shirt in the Square last sunday week.

[Dodge]

and I spotted a guy wearing a NI shirt in the Square last sunday week.
Idiot probably bought it thinking it was a Celtic away jersey...

[Gerrit]

Why would it be an idiot? Maybe just a northerner visiting Dublin for a shopping day, or a local who prefers NI or sympathises with NI.

[youngirish]

If we merged would we still be able to sing Amhrán na bhFiann at away games or would we instead have to sing that b****x rugby song or God Save the Queen?

[crc]

If we merged would we still be able to sing Amhrán na bhFiann at away games or would we instead have to sing that b****x rugby song or God Save the Queen? We would have to have agree on anthems. Either we play both, or a comprimise (not necissarily Ireland's Call, though I actually like it), or none. In any case, we definately couldn't play one without the other at away games, though possibly could for home games (depending on whether they were in Belfast or Dublin).

[thejollyrodger]

I've been in northern ireland and know what its all about. I dont think i want to destroy the team.

[gnasher]

I voted no on the national team, purely because I'm a realist. It might seem like a good idea but if you stand back and take a look at it, and think, the lot of them Unionists/Nationalists - they can't even agree on how much concrete you should pour in a hole full of Semtex, so they'll never agree to it. I'd hazrd a guess that most of the nationalists in the north support ROI anyway.

The league idea may be easier to overcome but I'd say the actual re-organization that would have to be done would scare evryone off.

[pete]

We are not ready politicially or sportingly for a merger yet.